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PlayStation Meeting announced. September 7th 3PM ET (PS4 Neo Reveal)

Right before the Neo's unveil, how do you feel about the system?


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Oct 30, 2011
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You don't think it's because of PSVR or the upcoming release of the Scorpio?

How is it in reaction to Scorpio when Sony is further along?

I mean, it may help PSVR, but I honestly don't see VR really being big until PS5 when the headset is 4K for full immersion.
 

Tagg9

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So I know everyone expects this event to be focused on Neo, but I'm expecting at least half of the conference to be dedicated to PlayStation VR. We'll probably get the launch lineup, as well as previews of some upcoming titles (early 2017 and beyond) to hype up the early adaptors.
 

Metfanant

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Why would they drop PS4 yet support NEO, when NEO is an extension of PS4, and the actual components would be comparatively similar? They might as well just keep supporting PS4 as well at that point.

I don't understand this splitting of PS4 and NEO, they are the same unit and live and die on the same base foundation technology wise.

I think Sony themselves will encourage people to move to PS5 in terms of dev priority but like every other generational change, devs will be allowed to make games on PS4/NEO for as long as they want. I also think that PS5 will support full BC with PS4/NEO games, which will allow devs to continue to sell games built for PS4 and NEO indefinately

because assuming the PS5 is a significant improvement over the Neo...2, 3, 4, 5 times the power?....there comes a point when supporting a console with 1.84tf, regardless of whether or not the PS4 and Neo exist together becomes impossible...
 

ArkhamFantasy

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So I know everyone expects this event to be focused on Neo, but I'm expecting at least half of the conference to be dedicated to PlayStation VR. We'll probably get the launch lineup, as well as previews of some upcoming titles (early 2017 and beyond) to hype up the early adaptors.

I mean, they're already sold out of PSVR. Need to focus on Neo, the messaging for Neo is absolutely critical. Sony has everything to lose, they cant come out and Mattrick this thing.
 

kirbyfan407

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because assuming the PS5 is a significant improvement over the Neo...2, 3, 4, 5 times the power?....there comes a point when supporting a console with 1.84tf, regardless of whether or not the PS4 and Neo exist together becomes impossible...

I think the major issue is not the GPU performance that you're citing but the CPU performance. Neo and PS4 will likely have very similar CPUs (if we take the leaked specs as final), and given that the CPU was a weakness of the system, I think many would expect the PS5 to offer a big jump forward in that regard. So, developing PS5 games cross-gen with Neo would be a large constraint on new hardware similar to the original PS4. If you're doing that, then I would think you might as well develop for PS4 as well and just drop the resolution of that version to 720p or something.

PS4 version: 1x resolution at 720p
PS4 Neo version: 2.25x resolution at 1080p
PS5 version: 9x resolution at 4K

But I don't think that's appealing, given that you're CPU constrained by the PS4 generation. So I think that's why people expect PS5 to be a complete jump forward so it can take advantage of its hypothetical new hardware.
 

Inuhanyou

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because assuming the PS5 is a significant improvement over the Neo...2, 3, 4, 5 times the power?....there comes a point when supporting a console with 1.84tf, regardless of whether or not the PS4 and Neo exist together becomes impossible...

Then don't support NEO either? NEO lives and dies with PS4, and its purpose is to play souped up PS4 games better than PS4 can. I think that will stay firmly in place until they stop supporting it.
 
Oct 30, 2011
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because assuming the PS5 is a significant improvement over the Neo...2, 3, 4, 5 times the power?....there comes a point when supporting a console with 1.84tf, regardless of whether or not the PS4 and Neo exist together becomes impossible...

It'll be the same like what happened this gen.

PS3/360 was still supported by major games up until this year...like 3 years into PS5 gen I would expect PS4 to be phased out...and likely PS4 Neo as well.
 

Metfanant

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I think the major issue is not the GPU performance that you're citing but the CPU performance. Neo and PS4 will likely have very similar CPUs (if we take the leaked specs as final), and given that the CPU was a weakness of the system, I think many would expect the PS5 to offer a big jump forward in that regard. So, developing PS5 games cross-gen with Neo would be a large constraint on new hardware similar to the original PS4. If you're doing that, then I would think you might as well develop for PS4 as well and just drop the resolution of that version to 720p or something.

PS4 version: 1x resolution at 720p
PS4 Neo version: 2.25x resolution at 1080p
PS5 version: 9x resolution at 4K

But I don't think that's appealing, given that you're CPU constrained by the PS4 generation. So I think that's why people expect PS5 to be a complete jump forward so it can take advantage of its hypothetical new hardware.

youre right, the CPU is the bigger issue...

Then don't support NEO either? NEO lives and dies with PS4, and its purpose is to play souped up PS4 games better than PS4 can. I think that will stay firmly in place until they stop supporting it.

i disagree...but we'll see how Sony does things
 

LordofPwn

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Yeah, it seems obvious that Rockstar will partner with PS4 for marketing on their titles - its already happened with GTA V on PS4 and Red Dead 2 will probably be the same.

I expect GTA VI to be tied to Playstation in some way too - clear market leader combined with very strong relationship with Rockstar.
I've got some good news and bad news for you...
 

Dead_Pixel

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Jul 7, 2013
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I'm actually more interested in a potential PS4 Slim than the Neo. I remember how amazing the PS2 Slim was at the time, and I want that for the current gen PlayStation.
 

DFox

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I saw pictures from the PS FW 4.0 beta and they have changed the background of notification to white. Could this be a indication of the PS4Neo being white? This would off-course look ridiculous whit the black PSVR box if it isn't built in to the device.

What is the likely hood of built in PSVR in Neo?
What is your guess of how it will look?
 

serversurfer

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That isn't true according to this, serversurfer?: http://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/luke-hill/amd-launches-its-2013-mobile-apu-products/3/

late May 2013 so 5 months before PS4/Xbox One.

Edit: I think the confusion is that AMD didn't deliver the desktop socketed APUs until April 2014? http://www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/amd-introduces-2014apr9.aspx

Sorry, the latter was the only thing I'd been able to find regarding actual availability. Thanks. <3


What does that have to do with putting a brand new, nonmobile experimental architecture into an APU before its official desktop or server release
Raven Ridge is a mobile 4/12 core Zen APU that peaks at 35W. There's also a desktop version of Raven Ridge rated 35-95W, with the same four Zen cores, but an undisclosed number of CUs. AMD's official roadmaps show Raven Ridge with the same timing as Summit Ridge — "2017" — but Summit Ridge at least may be coming as early as October, with engineering samples already making the rounds. Source

Zen certainly seems to be on the table for Neo. Sony may go ahead and launch without it just because, but "just because" is the only reason I can really think of. There's never been any hurry to get Neo out the door, so why not simply wait for it? What's the argument for leaving significant performance on the table?

Anyway…


Just judging by Andrew House's comments to date, I don't think they see rolling generations happening like this. They still seem to believe in the model of a fixed software generation, within which we might have a couple of hardware iterations.

That being the case, Neo won't be a PS4 that turns into a PS5, dropping the first PS4 out of the equation. It'll always just be a PS4. The next compatibility step will be the first PS5 model, whenever that comes, which will leave both the original PS4 and Neo behind.

All that said, I think Sony (and Microsoft) are still figuring out what might happen in the future, so maybe that could change. But right now it doesn't sound like it's on the cards, that the software cycle will hop along to straddle a window of hardware models at a given time. If they see Neo like that - as a PS4 iteration rather than a potential PS5 entry model - then I think it and the first PS4 will always play the same software.
I think House has been careful enough with his wording that Sony could do a generational reset if they decide they need to for some reason, but I don't really see any reason for that to be "the plan." I've asked this a few times and you may actually be provide a reasonable answer — I usually just get silence — but what would Sony realistically shift to from BSD/x86 that would actually necessitate a reset? Realistically, what could PS5 possibly be apart from a PS4.10 to Neo's PS4.5?

"PS5 is an if." ~Candid Shu
 

onQ123

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Sorry, the latter was the only thing I'd been able to find regarding actual availability. Thanks. <3



Raven Ridge is a mobile 4/12 core Zen APU that peaks at 35W. There's also a desktop version of Raven Ridge rated 35-95W, with the same four Zen cores, but an undisclosed number of CUs. AMD's official roadmaps show Raven Ridge with the same timing as Summit Ridge — "2017" — but Summit Ridge at least may be coming as early as October, with engineering samples already making the rounds. Source

Zen certainly seems to be on the table for Neo. Sony may go ahead and launch without it just because, but "just because" is the only reason I can really think of. There's never been any hurry to get Neo out the door, so why not simply wait for it? What's the argument for leaving significant performance on the table?

Anyway…



I think House has been careful enough with his wording that Sony could do a generational reset if they decide they need to for some reason, but I don't really see any reason for that to be "the plan." I've asked this a few times and you may actually be provide a reasonable answer — I usually just get silence — but what would Sony realistically shift to from BSD/x86 that would actually necessitate a reset? Realistically, what could PS5 possibly be apart from a PS4.10 to Neo's PS4.5?

"PS5 is an if." ~Candid Shu

Also being that PS4 was the biggest APU to hit the market in 2013 & released before the other APUs Neo could also be the 1st & biggest of the multi teraflop APUs that's coming out in the next year
 

2thepoint

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Aug 28, 2014
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I've got some good news and bad news for you...

Huh?

Ill rephrase - the next Red Dead title.

There is no way I can see Rockstar tying anything to Xbox with the way the console sales in Europe are practically non existent when lined up to Playstation.

It would literally be financially irresponsible to not tie marketing to a console with such a huge, insurmountable hardware installbase, coupled with the success of previous Rockstar titles in the Playstation ecosystem.

Rockstar will never, ever go exclusive to anything - but marketing is a done deal I think at this stage of the game. I would literally bet my account on Red Dead and GTA being tied to PS4 going forward.
 

THE:MILKMAN

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Mar 31, 2006
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Sorry, the latter was the only thing I'd been able to find regarding actual availability. Thanks. <3



Raven Ridge is a mobile 4/12 core Zen APU that peaks at 35W. There's also a desktop version of Raven Ridge rated 35-95W, with the same four Zen cores, but an undisclosed number of CUs. AMD's official roadmaps show Raven Ridge with the same timing as Summit Ridge — "2017" — but Summit Ridge at least may be coming as early as October, with engineering samples already making the rounds. Source

Zen certainly seems to be on the table for Neo. Sony may go ahead and launch without it just because, but "just because" is the only reason I can really think of. There's never been any hurry to get Neo out the door, so why not simply wait for it? What's the argument for leaving significant performance on the table?

No need to apologise surfer. Easy to lose track of all the variations of chips...I know I have many times.

As for why I think Sony aren't going with Zen with Neo (assuming it is 100% compatible) is simply because then it wouldn't be a PS4 (I can hear the steam coming out of Inuhanyou's ears from here!). What would be the point in investing in the extra cost of transistors and heat for a CPU that would be limited by the current PS4 Jaguar? The whole point of the Neo rules is to not split the userbase and to put in a much stronger CPU would provide something that can't really be taken advantage of. Or in reality provide something that current PS4 owners would be up in arms about.

Honestly, I stand by what I've said all along in that the Neo PDF leak is the final specs and, if it is correct the final test kit went out this month per KennyLinder, then 5 months would only allow minor clock adjustments and/or a RAM increase (RAM available to devs being upped more likely).

A final test kit is a production Neo effectively.

I do think Sony are edging their bets right now simply because they don't know yet how this will go. If they say and do stuff on the 7th that consumers like and Neo fly's off the shelves and PS4 owners are content then iterations will probably stay but if not then we'll get a PS5 in a few years as normal.
 

Omnistalgic

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Yup...I think Sony ups the Ram to 10GB
4.5TF GPU and CPU stays Roughly the same.

I think MS are going bigger because they have less to lose. X1 is essentially expendable if everyone upgrades to Scropio. Sony can't afford that with 50 million owners of PS4.

For the rest of the gen, the leaked specs will be just fine, and Sony can go big again in 2020 with PS5. MS on the other hand, well I dunno if they will have trouble selling another Xbox soon after, market might respond well to both.
 

THE:MILKMAN

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Yup...I think Sony ups the Ram to 10GB
4.5TF GPU and CPU stays Roughly the same.

I think MS are going bigger because they have less to lose. X1 is essentially expendable if everyone upgrades to Scropio. Sony can't afford that with 50 million owners of PS4.

For the rest of the gen, the leaked specs will be just fine, and Sony can go big again in 2020 with PS5. MS on the other hand, well I dunno if they will have trouble selling another Xbox soon after, market might respond well to both.

I have seen this before and asked if that is even possible. I believe the options would be 12GB and switch to a 384 bit bus or go 16 1GB chips on the current 256 bit bus?
 

bidguy

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I mean, they're already sold out of PSVR. Need to focus on Neo, the messaging for Neo is absolutely critical. Sony has everything to lose, they cant come out and Mattrick this thing.

lose what ? theyre already so far ahead they could literally price it at 600$ and still outsell the competition
 

Inuhanyou

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Jul 26, 2014
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As for why I think Sony aren't going with Zen with Neo (assuming it is 100% compatible) is simply because then it wouldn't be a PS4 (I can hear the steam coming out of Inuhanyou's ears from here!). What would be the point in investing in the extra cost of transistors and heat for a CPU that would be limited by the current PS4 Jaguar? The whole point of the Neo rules is to not split the userbase and to put in a much stronger CPU would provide something that can't really be taken advantage of. Or in reality provide something that current PS4 owners would be up in arms about.

Honestly, I stand by what I've said all along in that the Neo PDF leak is the final specs and, if it is correct the final test kit went out this month per KennyLinder, then 5 months would only allow minor clock adjustments and/or a RAM increase (RAM available to devs being upped more likely).

A final test kit is a production Neo effectively.

I do think Sony are edging their bets right now simply because they don't know yet how this will go. If they say and do stuff on the 7th that consumers like and Neo fly's off the shelves and PS4 owners are content then iterations will probably stay but if not then we'll get a PS5 in a few years as normal.

Why would i be angry? I agree 100% with what you said here
 

Averon

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The final Neo dev kits are coming in late August, right? If there's any changes to the hardware, then we may find out as early as sometime late next week. Or we will get confirmation that nothing changed hardware-wise.
 

MetalGearZed

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Sorta off topic but..
What would have to happen for consoles to become more like PCs, in that they can vary dramatically in power and build and still play the same games. i.e Why can modern PCs play games as old as 1980 but the PS4 can't play PS3 games? What's so different?
 

THE:MILKMAN

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Why would i be angry? I agree 100% with what you said here

My bad. I thought I read a bit of frustration in your recent posts.

Have to say nothing would make me happier than Neo being a 16GB Zen powered 5.5TF monster. I just can't allow myself to believe it given the info that has come out. Cerny, go right ahead and prove me wrong!
 

Inuhanyou

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Jul 26, 2014
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Sorta off topic but..
What would have to happen for consoles to become more like PCs, in that they can vary dramatically in power and build and still play the same games. i.e Why can modern PCs play games as old as 1980 but the PS4 can't play PS3 games? What's so different?

The PS3 and PS4 don't even share the same architecture GPU,CPU and RAM wise, and they were too different to be compatible.

That's the case with most consoles, even though you can force compatibility by keeping the hardware components of the previous unit to emulate its function, or introduce software emulation to digitally emulate how the console works, neither of these options is 100% problem free or possible depending on the hardware involved.

PC's have software and hardware compatibility issues with many old games. It just depends on the game your talking about and whether or not it supports modern OS's, drivers, system requirements ECT.
 
Feb 8, 2016
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Sorta off topic but..
What would have to happen for consoles to become more like PCs, in that they can vary dramatically in power and build and still play the same games. i.e Why can modern PCs play games as old as 1980 but the PS4 can't play PS3 games? What's so different?

The PS3 had the CELL architecture which dealt with computations differently then most processors and architectures. It would take a lot of time and resources to properly try to emulate the cell architecture on X86, and that's not even taking into account the various methods most developers had to take to get their games running on the CELL. So Sony probably doesn't see it as a fruitful endeavor, especially since they have PlayStation NOW.
 

Zukkoyaki

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I'm still going in with highly tempered expectations, but I remembered that Sony doesn't seem to be doing PGW this year and didn't hold a conference at Gamescom. It could be nothing but that very well could mean that they announcements to make here. We will see!
 

Averon

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Last I heard OsirisBlack said news on the hardware front has been pretty quiet for a while. That means either there's no changes to the hardware, so there's nothing new to "leak" or it might mean Sony's in lock down mode and want nothing else to leak, leaving any such hardware changes obscured until Sept. 7th.
 

funkystudent

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Moving to SATAIII or whatever is current and being able to actually get a improvement from using a SSD over traditional disc drives would be a big deal.


External HDD support would be nice as well but I think thats on the PSN name change list of "things that will probably never happen"
 

onQ123

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Yup...I think Sony ups the Ram to 10GB
4.5TF GPU and CPU stays Roughly the same.

I think MS are going bigger because they have less to lose. X1 is essentially expendable if everyone upgrades to Scropio. Sony can't afford that with 50 million owners of PS4.

For the rest of the gen, the leaked specs will be just fine, and Sony can go big again in 2020 with PS5. MS on the other hand, well I dunno if they will have trouble selling another Xbox soon after, market might respond well to both.

If they are going to clock it to 980Mhz to get 4.5TF they might as well go for 1Ghz & get 4.6TF but I don't really think this is what they want in a console I think they will keep the lower clock speed, there really isn't much point in making the console hotter for a few hundred gigaflops that's not going to show much of a difference in the end.

More Ram I think should happen.

I have seen this before and asked if that is even possible. I believe the options would be 12GB and switch to a 384 bit bus or go 16 1GB chips on the current 256 bit bus?


Maybe use 2GB HBM as cache
 

JuanLatino

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i guess we will see some christmas bundles announced at the event

Neo COD Bundle (US)
Neo Gran Turismo Bundle (EU)
Neo Final Fantasy XV Bundle (Japan)

or/and Watch Dogs 2 Bundle
 
Oct 3, 2011
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I saw pictures from the PS FW 4.0 beta and they have changed the background of notification to white. Could this be a indication of the PS4Neo being white? This would off-course look ridiculous whit the black PSVR box if it isn't built in to the device.

What is the likely hood of built in PSVR in Neo?
What is your guess of how it will look?

I am really confident Neo will have built in VR compatibility but it is based off of no facts whatsoever.
 

onQ123

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I am really confident Neo will have built in VR compatibility but it is based off of no facts whatsoever.

The breakout box don't really add much for VR besides better audio through the headset other than that the box is for splitting the video signal between the headset & TV.


I don't see why they would add that to the actual console
 

Pennywise

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PocketNow reporting that Sony seems to have submitted NEO test docs to the FCC (Pocketnow link, including FCC link here: http://pocketnow.com/2016/08/20/sony-xperia-xr-playstation-4-neo-maybe-at-fcc)

For some reason I'm not able to make a new thread (maybe I ticked someone off somehow?), regardless, probably not worthy enough of a new thread anyway.

You're a junior.
That's why :p

Anyway, it's certainly not thread worthy as it doesn't really contain any specifics or interesting things.
Would only result in tech talk circles that's part of both existing threads....
 

farisr

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Nov 5, 2011
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PocketNow reporting that Sony seems to have submitted NEO test docs to the FCC (Pocketnow link, including FCC link here: http://pocketnow.com/2016/08/20/sony-xperia-xr-playstation-4-neo-maybe-at-fcc)

For some reason I'm not able to make a new thread (maybe I ticked someone off somehow?), regardless, probably not worthy enough of a new thread anyway.
You already meet the time requirements, but you're still lacking in the number of posts. Gotta get to 300 posts (IIRC) before you're promoted from junior member status and get the ability to create threads.
 

Darklor01

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stpfarms

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The breakout box don't really add much for VR besides better audio through the headset other than that the box is for splitting the video signal between the headset & TV.


I don't see why they would add that to the actual console

Agreed, Sony would be less likely to spend the money to add that to the new console when every PSVR sold will have the breakout box sold with it.
 

Nightengale

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I'm really confident PS4 Neo will not have the break-out box function built-in the console for the following reasons:

1. It means all PS4 Neos are included with hardware that may not be utilised by non-PSVR owners
2. It is potentially confusing if PS4 Neo owners who buy PSVR have to be informed that their Neo don't need to fix in the breakout box, but regular PS4 owners need to
3. To avoid scenario (2), that means they'll need to have multiple SKUs of PSVR, one for Neo and one for PS4, which is even more confusing than (2)

I'm fairly confident for sake of streamlined messaging across PS4 and Neo, they'll just have it so that regardless of PS4 or Neo, you will need to utilise the full suit of standard PSVR hardware to be connected.

Agreed, Sony would be less likely to spend the money to add that to the new console when every PSVR sold will have the breakout box sold with it.

Yup. Since all PSVR SKUs will include the breakout box, it makes sense to decouple the breakout box hardware from Neo so that from a messaging perspective, it's clear that regardless of PS4/Neo, you need to have headset, breakout box, and camera to use PSVR.
 
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