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Playstation Visual Arts goes through layoffs from a "large pivot on [a] AAA game"

Again, why would you delay a game if it was already not releasing within 12 months... especially when its release date was never publicly announced. You know that doesn't make sense.
what are you talking about?!

The only thing that makes sense is they were targeting a release of this year
WAT?!.
Neil only said that they were going to show more this year...the actual reveal. (not release). It dosen't make any sense to think the game was going to release this year.

and Bungie said no dice. That reports suggest that the team was reduced but the game was not cancelled suggests that the game simply needs polish/retooling.
retooling is very, very different than polishing.

i think the word used was:
reassessment and reevaluating the direction
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no dude. i think this is a big deal

Speculation, but I think they were going to announce that this was going to release within 3-6 months at the showcase,
no way.
but the review went poorly. I think announcing a delay suggests that it needs another 3-6 months of development. If it needed more than that, I think it'd be canceled, but what is possible is that it'll get even longer with a smaller team.
but that is what i am saying. I just feel in balls that this game is still 2-3 years away (at best)
 

Rac3r

Member
Layoffs or a worker’s contract ended because of a cancelled project? This reminds me of people saying Bungie was going through mass layoffs because one person was let go. Lol.
 

feynoob

Member
so far?....couple?....i mean, i dont like to make lists but i am sure there at least 4-5 AAA games that were supposed to be out by now..


so...following MS's release schedule we are actually talking 2029-2030....yikes
Because Covid happened, and some of those studios released games when they were getting bought.
I dont know why I am even listing you that. You will see it yourself anyway.
 
Because Covid happened, and some of those studios released games when they were getting bought.
I dont know why I am even listing you that. You will see it yourself anyway.
Sony was existing in a universe were COVID was not a thing? because they released games which were being developed in the middle of the pandemic.
 

lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
horizon MP by deviation? i thought deviation is a first person shooter game? the f
 
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feynoob

Member
Sony was existing in a universe were COVID was not a thing? because they released games which were being developed in the middle of the pandemic.
Because games at the end of the cycle dont get affected, compared to games that are on early or in mid cycle.
Why do you think Sony only had Spiderman 2 this year?
 
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Because games at the end of the cycle dont get affected, compared to games that are on early or in mid cycle.
Why do you think Sony only had Spiderman 2 this year?
I think this is a little of 🏃🏻🥅🏃🏻.
just one example.
God of War released on april 2018. after all that crunch, devs get a well deserved vacations of several months. 2019 they start prepoduction and full production in 2020 (the covid year). God of war was made full production during covid.

but lets play your game and assumed sony is fucked. what are they going to do?

they look at their release schedule and realize they are dry as fuck....what's next?

Third and Second party deals.

In other words. sony is going to have the content to keep their "enemy" at bay.
 

feynoob

Member
I think this is a little of 🏃🏻🥅🏃🏻.
just one example.
God of War released on april 2018. after all that crunch, devs get a well deserved vacations of several months. 2019 they start prepoduction and full production in 2020 (the covid year). God of war was made full production during covid.

but lets play your game and assumed sony is fucked. what are they going to do?

they look at their release schedule and realize they are dry as fuck....what's next?

Third and Second party deals.

In other words. sony is going to have the content to keep their "enemy" at bay.
You are missing the point.
Sony being dry isnt the issue. The issue is giving MS more time.

This showcase should have been Sony showing all the big hits from their vault. Instead of doing that, they showed little bit. 2 more weeks and we will have Xbox showcase.
Considering the situation of Xbox these days, this is a missed oppurtunity for Sony. Especially with redfall and Activision deal blockage.

Now that Showcase might put some lifeline to Xbox, and show that they have games for their system.

That was my entire point. With Sony hestitation, MS/Xbox is going to get that chance to erase bad news and show things that their fans and other gamers wanted all year.

If this showcase is successful, then Xbox will see the fruits of those games that have been showed during these past showcases.

That is what I mean by "Never give your enemy time to recoup".
 
You are missing the point.
Sony being dry isnt the issue. The issue is giving MS more time.
Time?...Sony and MS have the same amount of time. each company is or is not going to be able to use a specific amount of time in the most effective way.

This showcase should have been Sony showing all the big hits from their vault. Instead of doing that, they showed little bit. 2 more weeks and we will have Xbox showcase.
of course it should. While a showcase is
important for PR/Marketing purposes they are meaningless if you dont release the games shown.

Considering the situation of Xbox these days, this is a missed oppurtunity for Sony. Especially with redfall and Activision deal blockage.
for the PR kill? absolutely. But Sony is in such better position that is not going to matter....in one month they have FF16 (and the team seems very confident)

but who knows if the investigation of sony's 'anticompetitive practices' are having effects on their messaging.

Now that Showcase might put some lifeline to Xbox, and show that they have games for their system.
again. it could alleviate the negative PR around the brand...but is not going to matter if those games don't hit. (releases schedule and critical reception)


That was my entire point. With Sony hestitation,
we don't know if it is hestitation.
MS/Xbox is going to get that chance to erase bad news and show things that their fans and other gamers wanted all year.
againx3 is not going to matter. they need to release those games "at quality"

If this showcase is successful, then Xbox will see the fruits of those games that have been showing during these past showcases.
justs like the Bethesda direct/Hi-Fi. then they had the worst PR month since 2013-2014/15

Xbox needs to release the games 'at quality'.


That is what I mean by "Never give your enemy time to recoup".
Do you actually believe Sony is like:

"lets stop development for a couple of years to let Xbox catch up"? Of course not.

if sony is having dev-issues is not them "giving their enemy time to recoup"

is just that game development is a bitch.

so, what i am saying is that the way you are phrasing your point is wrong.

sony is working hard as fuck to make these fucking games.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
So far, MS has revealed couple of big AAA games in the work, which were going to release in 2024-2025. You know it, so dont ignore it.
This is just BS...I don't get why you would say this and even use it to make a point.

So MS has games in the works due to be released in 2024-2025? So what? Do you think that becue Sony didn't show anything from a lot of their FP studios this week it means that they somehow have nothing to release next year and in 2025?

And we shouldn't ignore it? How are you somehow just ignoring the fact that 90% of all the stuff you seem to be giving MS a pass for was actually announced in 2020/2021... and of those very few have released or even have actual proper gameplay footage of VS sony who has released nearly everything they showed back then.

No... don't talk about what MS may or may not do and it doesn't matter what they show. At this point, MS is firmly in the put-out or shut-up zone. Even Phil knows that and said it himself.
 

feynoob

Member
This is just BS...I don't get why you would say this and even use it to make a point.

So MS has games in the works due to be released in 2024-2025? So what? Do you think that becue Sony didn't show anything from a lot of their FP studios this week it means that they somehow have nothing to release next year and in 2025?

And we shouldn't ignore it? How are you somehow just ignoring the fact that 90% of all the stuff you seem to be giving MS a pass for was actually announced in 2020/2021... and of those very few have released or even have actual proper gameplay footage of VS sony who has released nearly everything they showed back then.

No... don't talk about what MS may or may not do and it doesn't matter what they show. At this point, MS is firmly in the put-out or shut-up zone. Even Phil knows that and said it himself.
Calm down first. Relax.
No one talked about Sony 2024-2025 output, because we dont know. Only Sony has an idea what they are going to release.
2nd, MS 2024-2025 output has already been shown and were in production when they announced it. So we gamers have an idea what they are working on.

I am not going to talk about quality or metacritic of those games, as that is reserved for the release date.

All gamers care about is to see what games they will get from their system. MS already showed those, while Sony only showed few.
That doesnt mean they are going to be bad. We know what Sony is capable.
These are their 2022 games. They already proved themselves.
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Hope you can ease your anger.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
Calm down first. Relax.
No one talked about Sony 2024-2025 output, because we dont know. Only Sony has an idea what they are going to release.
2nd, MS 2024-2025 output has already been shown and were in production when they announced it. So we gamers have an idea what they are working on.

I am not going to talk about quality or metacritic of those games, as that is reserved for the release date.

All gamers care about is to see what games they will get from their system. MS already showed those, while Sony only showed few.
That doesnt mean they are going to be bad. We know what Sony is capable.
These are their 2022 games. They already proved themselves.
450_1000.jpeg
FOM8QafWYAAp7d6.png


Hope you can ease your anger.
Not angry.... just felt its weird to suggest sony is in some sort of trouble or dropping the ball because they haven't shown what they have working on from specific studios for next year and beyond. And then in the same breath talking up what MS is supposed to have coming.

Just weird to me. Because when MS announced what you are now calling their 2024/2025 lineup, they never suggested that was when they were coming. And MS has not earned the benefit of the doubt to even take comfort in that they have shown anything. Or that they will be good. Or even come when you think they will. I mean, we are finally going to see actual gameplay footage of stuff that MS showed the same time two years ago with the stuff sony showed. Of the stuff they showed, only 3 games have been released. And two of them sucked or didn't move the needle. Sony on the other hand has not ony released all but one of what they showed, they have even released whole new fucking hardware (PSVR2).

Sony does not have to do anything, they have at last earned some credit, we can at least genuinely trust that Sony is working on stuff, and what they are working on is likely to be good. Sony and MS are so far apart when it comes to trust in content and output that they shouldn't even be put in the same sentence.
 

feynoob

Member
Not angry.... just felt its weird to suggest sony is in some sort of trouble or dropping the ball because they haven't shown what they have working on from specific studios for next year and beyond. And then in the same breath talking up what MS is supposed to have coming.

Just weird to me. Because when MS announced what you are now calling their 2024/2025 lineup, they never suggested that was when they were coming. And MS has not earned the benefit of the doubt to even take comfort in that they have shown anything. Or that they will be good. Or even come when you think they will. I mean, we are finally going to see actual gameplay footage of stuff that MS showed the same time two years ago with the stuff sony showed. Of the stuff they showed, only 3 games have been released. And two of them sucked or didn't move the needle. Sony on the other hand has not ony released all but one of what they showed, they have even released whole new fucking hardware (PSVR2).

Sony does not have to do anything, they have at last earned some credit, we can at least genuinely trust that Sony is working on stuff, and what they are working on is likely to be good. Sony and MS are so far apart when it comes to trust in content and output that they shouldn't even be put in the same sentence.
Its more of MS building momentum, which can propell their remaining years.
After 3 mediocre years, they can finally release their games without any further delays. Think of it early ps3 vs late ps3.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
Its more of MS building momentum, which can propell their remaining years.
After 3 mediocre years, they can finally release their games without any further delays. Think of it early ps3 vs late ps3.
I get what you are trying to say... I just feel it's way too premature.

Two things need to happen...

first, is that MS needs to actually release those games and they have to be good.

Second, is that Sony needs to not actually be releasing anything while all that s happening.

There is zero chance of the second thing happening, and its left to be seen what will happen with the first.

Its just a bad look for anyone saying... just wait and see what they are going to do next year when it comes to MS... they literally have been saying that shit since 2018. They have been showing gameplay, they have been showing trailers, they have made promises, they have made declarations....etc. NOTHING has come of that.
Wait, et them actually start doing something, then we have this conversation again.
 

feynoob

Member
I get what you are trying to say... I just feel it's way too premature.

Two things need to happen...

first, is that MS needs to actually release those games and they have to be good.

Second, is that Sony needs to not actually be releasing anything while all that s happening.

There is zero chance of the second thing happening, and its left to be seen what will happen with the first.

Its just a bad look for anyone saying... just wait and see what they are going to do next year when it comes to MS... they literally have been saying that shit since 2018. They have been showing gameplay, they have been showing trailers, they have made promises, they have made declarations....etc. NOTHING has come of that.
Wait, et them actually start doing something, then we have this conversation again.
Sony main job was to take the spot light from them this year. That is all, nothing more, nothing less. Just overshadow their event. They didnt do that.
This Xbox show event could be their turning point. And because Sony isnt overshadowing them, there is alot of eyes on them right now. It could be what Xbox needed to recover and push them forward.

All it takes is small push to achieve the impossible. And Xbox is getting that in 2 weeks.
 

Mr.Phoenix

Member
Sony main job was to take the spot light from them this year. That is all, nothing more, nothing less. Just overshadow their event. They didnt do that.
This Xbox show event could be their turning point. And because Sony isnt overshadowing them, there is alot of eyes on them right now. It could be what Xbox needed to recover and push them forward.

All it takes is small push to achieve the impossible. And Xbox is getting that in 2 weeks.
I will reserve my comments. What I would although, is that it doesn't work that way.
 
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Sony main job was to take the spot light from them this year. That is all, nothing more, nothing less. Just overshadow their event. They didnt do that.
This Xbox show event could be their turning point. And because Sony isnt overshadowing them, there is alot of eyes on them right now. It could be what Xbox needed to recover and push them forward.

All it takes is small push to achieve the impossible. And Xbox is getting that in 2 weeks.
this is not an anime..
 
So far, MS has revealed couple of big AAA games in the work, which were going to release in 2024-2025. You know it, so dont ignore it.


They have to perfect the current devices first, before moving out to the new one. Otherwise you will end up with unutilized device.

It doesn't work like that.

Look at the cross gen games like Horizon and God of War that absolutely push the shit out of the base units. The harder you push something like a Ps5 pro the harder you're going to push the base unit. It doesn't just magically disappear.
 
Sony main job was to take the spot light from them this year. That is all, nothing more, nothing less. Just overshadow their event. They didnt do that.
This Xbox show event could be their turning point. And because Sony isnt overshadowing them, there is alot of eyes on them right now. It could be what Xbox needed to recover and push them forward.

All it takes is small push to achieve the impossible. And Xbox is getting that in 2 weeks.

It's a fantasy; you thinking that these showcases move the needle that much. Almost everyone who watches these already has the consoles. They're watched by hardcore gamers and largely no one else.
 
what are you talking about?!


WAT?!.
Neil only said that they were going to show more this year...the actual reveal. (not release). It dosen't make any sense to think the game was going to release this year.


retooling is very, very different than polishing.

i think the word used was:
reassessment and reevaluating the direction
jSQzzD2.jpg
EBgO8yG.jpg

no dude. i think this is a big deal


no way.

but that is what i am saying. I just feel in balls that this game is still 2-3 years away (at best)

2-3 years? You're actually insane...
 
If it is Deviation’s game then it’s interesting to know it’s stylised. There hasn’t been a pivot - that game is cancelled.

The only stylised game we know they were making was Horizon, and that wasn’t being done by Deviation - that is Guerilla’s second team.
 
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It's always sad to read about layoffs but this industry is just like anyother when mistakes are made (usually by the powers that be). Then things get closed down and its the working personnel who get shafted.
 

rofif

Can’t Git Gud
The reality is we're not going to see games that are tremendously better looking at existing framerates.

PS5 and XSX are just low-mid/mid range PCs. They can barely play previous-gen games at double the framerate.

You could double the tflops of PS5 and you're still not at a 3090, pretty much 50% there.

The 3090 doesn't make games look next gen and neither does the 4090.
These consoles are more range pcs only because developers treat them like if they were. Imagine optimisation like tlou2 on ps4.
Ps5 is vastly different from a pc of you want
 

FeralEcho

Member
So how's that GAAS future Jim Ryan was embracing looking like? Lets see:

Shittiest showcase ever made by Playstation
Naughty Dog doing a garbage apology about Factions 2 a game by fucking ND of all Devs which seems in development hell
Deviation Games going ass up with layoffs
PlayStation visual arts having layoffs
Jade Raymond's studio making the most bland fucking team based shooter I've seen
PixelOpus being dead

All in like a week,gives me flashbacks of Microsoft.

Good job Jimmy,you just couldn't focus on what made this brand great could you,well now reap what you sew you hack.Soon you can join Phil Spencer in the hall of fame of useless hacks who destroyed a brand.
 

CGNoire

Member
I'm pretty sure that after Sony heard Phil's Comments the other week they immeddiatly decided to "ReBudget" there games since without competetion whats the point?
 

Ronin_7

Member
Do you think bungie is looking for quality control or just help with profitability and monetization of the projects?
Look i don't know shit but let me tell you this:

I'm pretty damn sure that Factions plays like a dream & it's already in a very polished state.

So yeah Bungie problem lies within profitability & monetization.

Once you launch a GaaS you gotta have at least a 3 year plan on how you'll support it, not only that you gotta make sure you've the resources ready or risk another Halo Infinite situation.
 

Snake29

RSI Employee of the Year
Sony main job was to take the spot light from them this year. That is all, nothing more, nothing less. Just overshadow their event. They didnt do that.
This Xbox show event could be their turning point. And because Sony isnt overshadowing them, there is alot of eyes on them right now. It could be what Xbox needed to recover and push them forward.

All it takes is small push to achieve the impossible. And Xbox is getting that in 2 weeks.

The Media is still talking about Sony after all these days. More threads about PS showcase then Xbox. The fact the Sony didn’t show half what PS Studios is doing, will show how people are looking atm.

2 weeks but the media is still focused on PS. People always underestimate PS, but they always kick back very hard. This whole show was setup intentionally, to not give Xbox more to look at before their own show.
 
So how's that GAAS future Jim Ryan was embracing looking like? Lets see:

Shittiest showcase ever made by Playstation
Naughty Dog doing a garbage apology about Factions 2 a game by fucking ND of all Devs which seems in development hell
Deviation Games going ass up with layoffs
PlayStation visual arts having layoffs
Jade Raymond's studio making the most bland fucking team based shooter I've seen
PixelOpus being dead

All in like a week,gives me flashbacks of Microsoft.

Good job Jimmy,you just couldn't focus on what made this brand great could you,well now reap what you sew you hack.Soon you can join Phil Spencer in the hall of fame of useless hacks who destroyed a brand.
Tell us how you really feel? 🤣
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
The problem is the focus on 60 fps.

I think we desperately need PS5 Pro here.

Spider-Man 2 should have been 4K30 fps on PS5 (1080p60) and 4K60 fps on PS5 Pro, with a 30 fps option for even greater visual fidelity.
I think we are seeing also diminishing returns (this so much more effort / cost required to exploit the juice of the console in a way that shows enough of a change) and PS5 Pro will disappoint in this regard as like all Pro consoles it will have no exclusive game and developers will not do much more than bruteforce their way out of.

Then again, let’s see the packaged product, an earlier start as cross generation game might make sense too, though we are seeing PS5 remastered edition ray tracing dialled up and a fair amount of complexity on screen we did not have and perhaps underestimating the cost of “just increasing draw distance, increasing framerate, etc…”.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
It took them longer to show the ps4 power. I doubt they can show the ps5 power with this little time.

I think Spiderman 2 looks really good, and during the showcase I was wowed by the traversal speed, so this won’t be a commentary about SM2

I just wanted to point out that Killzone Shadowfall at the PS4 launch was absolutely a ‘next gen’ showcase that showed off the PS4’s power, followed shortly by stunning Infamous Second Son and DriveClub
 
Looks like we’ve been privy to more of Sony’s annual reviews this year. It’s a good thing to have Bungie look over projects with suggestions.

GAAS needs good moment to moment gameplay, a long roadmap, regular content drops and streamabilitity.

It’ll be interesting to see if these projects are FTP or premium.
 
I think we are seeing also diminishing returns (this so much more effort / cost required to exploit the juice of the console in a way that shows enough of a change) and PS5 Pro will disappoint in this regard as like all Pro consoles it will have no exclusive game and developers will not do much more than bruteforce their way out of.

Then again, let’s see the packaged product, an earlier start as cross generation game might make sense too, though we are seeing PS5 remastered edition ray tracing dialled up and a fair amount of complexity on screen we did not have and perhaps underestimating the cost of “just increasing draw distance, increasing framerate, etc…”.

Keep in mind that Spider-Man on PS4 was 1080p30.

It looks like they've made the decision here to make the base PS5 play at 4K60 here. Miles Morales ran at 4K30 in fidelity mode, with VRR I believe this got into the 40-50s... so I think what Insomniac has done here is simply focused on the performance of the game over the visual fidelity delivering what is probably 4K60 but keeping the miles morales level of fidelity. The problem here is that doesn't really blow us away in terms of graphics as we would have hoped.

We're doubling the resolution and framerate of the original PS4 game on the base PS5 but at the cost of the enhanced visuals we would have expected. We'll probably see zero pop-in as the PS5's SSD is probably put to the task here, but again, just not the visual leap we would have hoped for, but you can't really expect the base PS5 to double the framerate AND resolution of the original game, improve LOD and draw distance and significantly improve on texture quality.

My guess is that the game will have a fidelity mode that will run 4K30 with RTX and with VRR 40+ but that it still won't have the visual depth that we're looking for.

I think that is where we desperately need a PS5 Pro.
 
Looks like we’ve been privy to more of Sony’s annual reviews this year. It’s a good thing to have Bungie look over projects with suggestions.

GAAS needs good moment to moment gameplay, a long roadmap, regular content drops and streamabilitity.

It’ll be interesting to see if these projects are FTP or premium.

You don't need to/want to force the release of a Live Service game. You just release it when it's ready. You're not going to make all your money in the first month, it needs to have legs. Really you don't want to release any game before its ready.
 

Fabieter

Member
Keep in mind that Spider-Man on PS4 was 1080p30.

It looks like they've made the decision here to make the base PS5 play at 4K60 here. Miles Morales ran at 4K30 in fidelity mode, with VRR I believe this got into the 40-50s... so I think what Insomniac has done here is simply focused on the performance of the game over the visual fidelity delivering what is probably 4K60 but keeping the miles morales level of fidelity. The problem here is that doesn't really blow us away in terms of graphics as we would have hoped.

We're doubling the resolution and framerate of the original PS4 game on the base PS5 but at the cost of the enhanced visuals we would have expected. We'll probably see zero pop-in as the PS5's SSD is probably put to the task here, but again, just not the visual leap we would have hoped for, but you can't really expect the base PS5 to double the framerate AND resolution of the original game, improve LOD and draw distance and significantly improve on texture quality.

My guess is that the game will have a fidelity mode that will run 4K30 with RTX and with VRR 40+ but that it still won't have the visual depth that we're looking for.

I think that is where we desperately need a PS5 Pro.

I think 4k60 fps is a waste with all the reconstruction tech we have so I hope this isnt the reason.
 
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