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[Suikoguy]

Manos, I'm amazed you manage to post so much without refuting anything. It must take real talent.

It's like debating with a brick wall,

Me: "The video clearly shows the officers were not "threatened""
Brick Wall: "What video"
Me: "The videos being posted all over youtube, several of them"
Brick Wall: "The cops did nothing wrong"

Yep, totally pointless waste of time.
He at least needs a tag so people can at least know to ignore him.

I'm out of this thread.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Honestly instead of whining the little rich kids should be glad they just got pepper spray instead of getting tazered (which would also have been fine given the circumstances. They were breaking the law -- now such thing as "due process" when you are breaking the law: all bets are off.

I guess I better watch my speed, don't wanna get tazered for speeding next time I'm out driving too fast.

 

[PJV3]

I'm not sure how Manos' quote has anything to do with a line of protests seated on the ground. Cops do a hard job and should be rightly on edge most of the time... but when presented with a circle of college kids linked arms and refusing to move?

Either way, that's not what the argument should be about. If the cop was scared for his life, he still shouldn't have pepper-sprayed those kids.

The police should spray everyone they meet, you never know, granny might be packing. Those innocent looking mums at the playground might be armed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ygy7UDADXDg

 

[marrec]

I guess I better watch my speed, don't wanna get tazered for speeding next time I'm out driving too fast.

The only excuse these people can come up with for the terrible actions of that police officer is that Police Officers should have free reign to fuck people up when they're breaking the law.

Why is this even an argument. We should be applauding the collective restraint of UCD Occupy protesters, not arguing with trolls.

 

[shintoki]

Honestly instead of whining the little rich kids should be glad they just got pepper spray instead of getting tazered (which would also have been fine given the circumstances. They were breaking the law -- now such thing as "due process" when you are breaking the law: all bets are off.

I agree, lucky they were able to walk off on their own feet. You get on the tracks, better hope you don't get the train! WHOOOOOO

 

[N Coward Parody]

Honestly instead of whining the little rich kids should be glad they just got pepper spray instead of getting tazered (which would also have been fine given the circumstances. They were breaking the law -- now such thing as "due process" when you are breaking the law: all bets are off.

Well done.

 

[travisbickle]

Considering how most cops find approaching the door of a car on a routine traffic stop as one of the more terrifying parts of their job, I don't think you can rule them being scared for their safety. How did they not know if someone had a knife on them? It's no different when approaching the front of the car or say dealing with an apparent mentally ill suspect. You cannot tell what will happen or who the person involved will be.

I think cops are able to assess a situation, and I think you are doing them a disservice claiming they approach a group of students completing a peaceful demonstration as they would to a non-visible person within a car. The individual cop who peper-sprayed the crowd has been suspended, he was unable to assess the situation correctly, do not classify all cops as people who are unable to assess the dangers of a situation.

 

[marrec]

I think cops are able to assess a situation, and I think you are doing them a disservice claiming they approach a group of students completing a peaceful demonstration as they would to a non-visible person within a car. The individual cop who peper-sprayed the crowd has been suspended, he was unable to assess the situation correctly.

Yep. Training provided to Officers should give them the critical thinking needed to say 'Yep, don't need to pepper-spray these kids.'

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I think cops are able to assess a situation, and I think you are doing them a disservice claiming they approach a group of students completing a peaceful demonstration as they would to a non-visible person within a car. The individual cop who peper-sprayed the crowd has been suspended, he was unable to assess the situation correctly.

LOL @ thinking he was acting as a "lone wolf".

...and I'm sure just the military officers who tortured the detainees at Abu Ghraib were "lone wolves" too.

*hardest eyeroll ever*

 

[Fusebox]

Yep. Training provided to Officers should give them the critical thinking needed to say 'Yep, don't need to pepper-spray these kids.'

Considering the cop with the pepper-spray was easily able to step over the so-called 'barrier' this is the only logical conclusion.

The hard-on that some people have here for blindly agreeing with any kind of authority disturbs me.

 

[entremet]

Are you a cop, Manos? Just curious.

 

[Fusebox]

Are you a cop, Manos? Just curious.

Lol no, but he is armed.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Are you a cop, Manos? Just curious.

No, I'm a lawyer.

has manos created the fascist-gaf thread in the community forum yet

Damn you are so original you're totally aren't the 5 person to imply I was a facist in the last 48 hours.

Manos, I'm amazed you manage to post so much without refuting anything. It must take real talent.

It's like debating with a brick wall,

Me: "The video clearly shows the officers were not "threatened""
Brick Wall: "What video"
Me: "The videos being posted all over youtube, several of them"
Brick Wall: "The cops did nothing wrong"

Yep, totally pointless waste of time.
He at least needs a tag so people can at least know to ignore him.

I'm out of this thread.

If you are admitting defeat that's fine with me.

I think cops are able to assess a situation, and I think you are doing them a disservice claiming they approach a group of students completing a peaceful demonstration as they would to a non-visible person within a car. The individual cop who peper-sprayed the crowd has been suspended, he was unable to assess the situation correctly, do not classify all cops as people who are unable to assess the dangers of a situation.

He has been placed on administrative leave pending an investigation, there has been no actually judgement regarding his actions so I haven clue what the hell you are talking about.

So I'm assuming you really haven't watched the videos then? That, or American cops really are strange in that they smile and seem completely at ease when they're scared.

That must make for some really strange traffic stops.

Plus, of course you're ignoring the other lie... in that they were definitely not trapped.

Yeah, Because people always betray their emotions openly.

The thing about this Mayonnaise Mouth Manos fool is that he keeps talking about wanting to debate something, but he never brings up anything to debate about because he has nothing to debate about. He's like somehow made Anti-OWS a religion and is the self appointed Zealot of the group.

Actually I did with a person on the issue of lobbying in American politics, just yesterday, so nice try on that one.

Also Mayonnaise Mouth? Lol that's weird even by the stuff I've heard Alpha bromega say recently. Lol

 

[badcrumble]

Honestly instead of whining the little rich kids should be glad they just got pepper spray instead of getting tazered (which would also have been fine given the circumstances. They were breaking the law -- now such thing as "due process" when you are breaking the law: all bets are off.

what

i know it's Astrolad, but what

 

[marrec]

Are you a cop, Manos? Just curious.

Maybe?

 

[royalan]

I think cops are able to assess a situation, and I think you are doing them a disservice claiming they approach a group of students completing a peaceful demonstration as they would to a non-visible person within a car. The individual cop who peper-sprayed the crowd has been suspended, he was unable to assess the situation correctly, do not classify all cops as people who are unable to assess the dangers of a situation.

Then here's my question: If these protesters are peaceful and totally cooperative and not wanting to do anything but peacefully demonstrate, why steadfastly break the law? Why not listen to officers who asked them vacate the private property they were blockading? Why continue to do so even after they were warned that further dispersal methods would be used?

I've been involved with peaceful protests before, and here's the key: you don't do anything to purposely piss off the police. You focus on the strength of your message and your conviction and not do anything to detract from that. If a cop asks you to move off of public property you do so and continue holding up your sign.

It seems like the cops have to be these monsters who burst onto the scene already spraying for a lot of people's arguments here to work.

 

[badcrumble]

Then here's my question: If these protesters are peaceful and totally cooperative and not wanting to do anything but peacefully demonstrate, why steadfastly break the law? Why not listen to officers who asked them vacate the private property they were blockading? Why continue to do so even after they were warned that further dispersal methods would be used?

I've been involved with peaceful protests before, and here's the key: you don't do anything to purposely piss off the police. You focus on the strength of message and your conviction and not do anything to detract from that message.

It seems like the cops have to be these monsters who burst onto the scene already spraying for a lot of people's arguments here to work.

Do you understand that civil disobedience requires breaking the law?

I'm not whatsoever shocked by what cops are and have been doing, btw: they're playing their part. Civil disobedience is all about doing no *actual* harm to others and demonstrating that the law will still go after you because the law is unjust. The cops are doing their job to enforce the law; it's the law (and the priorities it implies) that's wrong.

 

[bob page]

Honestly instead of whining the little rich kids should be glad they just got pepper spray instead of getting tazered (which would also have been fine given the circumstances. They were breaking the law -- now such thing as "due process" when you are breaking the law: all bets are off.

I honestly hope this is a joke post.. I expected more from you, man.

Let's just tear gas them instead of attempting to arrest them by other means first!

 

[royalan]

Do you understand that civil disobedience requires breaking the law?

So then you acknowledge that they were knowingly breaking the law? I thought this was a peaceful protest we were discussing.

 

[Fusebox]

I love the way sitting at your own university and being involved in a petty misdemeanour has now been elevated to "steadfastly breaking the law".

Whatever makes you feel better about watching a bunch of peaceful protesters get pepper-sprayed I suppose...

 

[Emitan]

So then you acknowledge that they were knowingly breaking the law? I thought this was a peaceful protest we were discussing.

How is breaking the law automatically violent? Please explain this.

 

[entremet]

No, I'm a lawyer.



Damn you are so original you're totally aren't the 5 person to imply I was a facist in the last 48 hours.



If you are admitting defeat that's fine with me.



He has been placed on administrative leave pending an investigation, there has been no actually judgement regarding his actions so I haven clue what the hell you are talking about.



Yeah, Because people always betray their emotions openly.




Actually I did with a person on the issue of lobbying in American politics, just yesterday, so nice try on that one.

Also Mayonnaise Mouth? Lol that's weird even by the stuff I've heard Alpha bromega say recently. Lol

Unless you're on retainer for the NYPD, I don't get your arguments at all from a legal perpective, especially in regards to excessive force.

To each his own, I guess.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Whether it's right or wrong to block access to an abortion clinic is independent of the law. Just like whether or not it is right or wrong to help slaves escape their owners is independent of the law. Just like whether or not it is right or wrong to harbor Jews is independent of the law. Just like whether it's okay to have gay sex in Texas is independent of the law. Just like whether it's okay for a black woman to keep her seat at the front of the bus is independent of the law. The law does not decide what is right and what is wrong. Hopefully it reflects what is right and what is wrong. Sadly, that is not always the case.

What about if people are being forced to integrate a school or have their children bused to a different school, you're telling me that those people if they feel the law is unjust are right in breaking it and that's a good idea?

 

[marrec]

Then here's my question: If these protesters are peaceful and totally cooperative and not wanting to do anything but peacefully demonstrate, why steadfastly break the law? Why not listen to officers who asked them vacate the private property they were blockading? Why continue to do so even after they were warned that further dispersal methods would be used?

I've been involved with peaceful protests before, and here's the key: you don't do anything to purposely piss off the police. You focus on the strength of your message and your conviction and not do anything to detract from that. If a cop asks you to move off of public property you do so and continue holding up your sign.

It seems like the cops have to be these monsters who burst onto the scene already spraying for a lot of people's arguments here to work.

These people are breaking the law to call attention to the message they want to spread. It's a perfectly valid form of protest. The Police, as is there duty, need to deal with people who break the law. People get arrested and it makes the local news, or a blurb on the national news.

When some cop maliciously sprays a group of, yes, peaceful protesters... that makes national news very quickly.

No one WANTS the cops to react like this, but it is interesting that we can't go a few days without someone getting roughed up by the cops during these protests.

 

[royalan]

I love the way sitting at your own university and being involved in a petty misdemeanour has now been elevated to "steadfastly breaking the law".

Whatever makes you feel better about watching a bunch of peaceful protesters get pepper-sprayed I suppose...

Explain how sitting down and linking arms in the face of cops asking you to vacate private property isn't steadfastly breaking the law?

These people are breaking the law to call attention to the message they want to spread. It's a perfectly valid form of protest. The Police, as is there duty, need to deal with people who break the law. People get arrested and it makes the local news, or a blurb on the national news.

When some cop maliciously sprays a group of, yes, peaceful protesters... that makes national news very quickly.

No one WANTS the cops to react like this, but it is interesting that we can't go a few days without someone getting roughed up by the cops during these protests.

...and then people do nothing but talk about the brutality videos on youtube. Hell, in this case people aren't even sure about what the students were protesting. Even in this very thread.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

How is breaking the law automatically violent? Please explain this.

It's makes it unlawful and criminal.

 

[marrec]

It's makes it unlawful and criminal.

Then maybe we need to be protesting the nation who trains it's police officers to use pepper-spray on obviously nonviolent lawbreakers.

 

[Emitan]

It's makes it unlawful and criminal.

That's not what I asked.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Then maybe we need to be protesting the nation who trains it's police officers to use pepper-spray on obviously nonviolent lawbreakers.

Maybe we need to teach protestors not to break the law.

 

[Joe]

never in a million years could anyone ever convince a jury that what the students did was "criminal".

 

[Plumbob]

What about if people are being forced to integrate a school or have their children bused to a different school, you're telling me that those people if they feel the law is unjust are right in breaking it and that's a good idea?

The question of whether their resisting integration is right or wrong is not decided by the law. It's decided by whether the resisting integration is moral independent of the law. Clearly seeking to maintain racial segregation is wrong because racism is wrong, regardless what the law has to say.

Maybe we need to teach protestors not to break the law.

Damned straight, Rosa Parks! Back of the bus with you!

 

[FLEABttn]

Maybe we need to teach protestors not to break the law.

Because breaking the law automatically warrants being assaulted by a weapon. Oh boy this is fun.

 

[marrec]

Maybe we need to teach protestors not to break the law.

That'd be a great lesson in History Class.

"Remember kids, if you're protesting, do not break the law like all those other protesters in the past have. We affect change through compliance!"

 

[Fusebox]

It's makes it unlawful and criminal.

Maybe we need to teach protestors not to break the law.

Manos, I remember when you used to try to justify your fascist view-point, but now you're slowly turning into a bad parody of your former self.

 

[Emitan]

Maybe Manos just doesn't know what a protest is? He seems very ill informed about this entire situation.

 

[FLEABttn]

Considering how most cops find approaching the door of a car on a routine traffic stop as one of the more terrifying parts of their job, I don't think you can rule them being scared for their safety. How did they not know if someone had a knife on them? It's no different when approaching the front of the car or say dealing with an apparent mentally ill suspect. You cannot tell what will happen or who the person involved will be.

If your fear in life is being assaulted by someone while pulling them over in a traffic stop, don't become a police officer. I didn't want to die in a min collapse, so I didn't become a coal miner.

That's not to say we can't try to avoid tragedy, but when your means of preventing violence is to pre-emptivly use violence yourself, well, fuck off.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

The question of whether their resisting integration is right or wrong is not decided by the law. It's decided by whether the resisting integration is moral independent of the law. Clearly seeking to maintain racial segregation is wrong because racism is wrong, regardless what the law has to say.

So you just invalidated your entire statement.

Damned straight, Rosa Parks! Back of the bus with you!

Is it any surprise that OWS support is dropping.

never in a million years could anyone ever convince a jury that what the students did was "criminal".

Texas and/or Orange County.

Manos, I remember when you used to try to justify your fascist view-point, but now you're slowly turning into a bad parody of your former self.

Ah fusebox is it distressing that your voting record is in the end, really no different than mine, and that goes for pretty much all of the American posters here. You may despise me, but there is relatively no difference from yourself and me at the ballot box.

 

[Jangocube]

Maybe Manos just doesn't know what a protest is? He seems very ill informed about this entire situation.

He just loves being the center of attention, and since the OWS movement has grown in scale and has been everything he said it wouldn't be, he has to oppose it.

Single child syndrome as well, etc.

 

[Dahellisdat]

Certainly don't condone the pepper spraying as it was done, but I must say, forming a human barricade around a bunch of police is a fucking retarded thing to do.

 

[travisbickle]

He has been placed on administrative leave pending an investigation, there has been no actually judgement regarding his actions so I haven clue what the hell you are talking about.

Suspended from active duty pending an investigation, the only reason you are suspended from active duty is because the actions you make as an officer have been called into question.

 

[Emitan]

Certainly don't condone the pepper spraying as it was done, but I must say, forming a human barricade around a bunch of police is a fucking retarded thing to do.

It's a good thing they did no such thing, then.

 

[Renmei]

Do you understand that civil disobedience requires breaking the law?

Do you understand that civil disobedience and all the drama makes some people like me embarrassed and unable to be associated with OWS? You don't need it to spread the message, the vast majority of Americans feel disenfranchised and economically screwed by the wealthy. But I'm not hitching my wagon to such a disruptive and juvenile group, get some actual leaders and run some candidates who can do some actual change. Or I'll be on the sidelines waiting for someone serious to emerge.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

He just loves being the center of attention, and since the OWS movement has grown in scale and has been everything he said it wouldn't be, he has to oppose it.

You mean how I predicted the increase in violence by it's members, actually it has been everything I said it would be.

Single child syndrome as well, etc.

nope I have a younger sister

 

[Fusebox]

You mean how I predicted the increase in violence by it's members, actually it has been everything I said it would be.

Violently sitting.

 

[Barbacoatl]

Maybe we need to teach protestors not to break the law.

This could almost imply -not surprisingly- that you paint protestors as mere dogs. That you want them on a leash I can understand, but to pretend that non-violent coercion is never a possibility makes it all clearer.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Suspended from active duty pending an investigation, the only reason you are suspended from active duty is because the actions you make as an officer have been called into question.

No, it happens if any officer ever uses force even if totally justified. A cop shooting a man running naked with a butcher knife trying to rape a women would still be placed on administrative leave penning an investigation.

 

[Dahellisdat]

It's a good thing they did no such thing, then.

No? I've been reading that the police were surrounded by protesters when this all went down. Is that not true?

 

[Plumbob]

Is it any surprise that OWS support is dropping.

I'm disappointed. For a lawyer, you give up arguments under pressure in favor of petty attacks rather quickly. Unless you think Rosa Parks was in the wrong, then it's good we have established breaking the law as a form of protest is sometimes okay.

 

[marrec]

You mean how I predicted the increase in violence by it's members, actually it has been everything I said it would be.

It must be really awesome to live in your own little fantasy land.

I like that there is a voice of reason in these threads Manos, and usually you provide it... but this time you're just coming off as crazy.

Until next time.

 

[railGUN]

No? I've been reading that the police were surrounded by protesters when this all went down. Is that not true?

Why not watch the videos in the OP and decide for yourself?

Edit: also, there is some serious troll feeding going on here - just ignore them already.