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PoliGAF 2017 |OT3| 13 Treasons Why

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E

Effect

Member
I'll guess we'll see if it holds if he tries to use it. It was my understanding you just can't claim anything and everything is privilege. It has to fall under certain conditions which is why it's been rejected in the past and the Comey stuff would't be under it, especially now that he was fired and Trump admitted to why he fired Comey. He's already talked about that meeting already. It's out in the public by his own actions. He would just be getting contradicted and shown a liar by the other person who likely has receipts.
 
Emerson

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
OBAMACARE WAS NOT A GOP BILL.

The Republican Obamacare like proposal had no subsidies and no Medicaid expansion, jesus christ.
Click to expand...

The point is that Obamacare was as far to the right as you could make a healthcare reform bill (an inherently leftist idea) and have it still be palatable to the country. It turned out this way because Obama's more progressive ideas had to be moderated to be accepted by congress. And when the GOP has taken the same concepts and moved them to the right, everyone hates it. They have no other solution.
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
Wasn't it based on Romneycare? Sounds like a GOP bill.
Surfinn said:
Do you have a link or source? CNN said there's nothing actually written in regard to whether or not the president can use his executive privileges to block it.
Click to expand...
The supreme court determined the president can't claim executive privilege over conversations just to prevent a criminal investigation from proceeding.
 
T

teiresias

Member
Barzul said:
So it's looking like Healthcare won't happen this year. GOPers like Johnson and Burr are saying so anyways. Johnson even suggests funding the CSRs is the best short term measure, sharp departure from the WH rhetoric.
Click to expand...

I'd love to see Trump rage if the only thing that came out of the Senate was a bill that took away his ability to hold the CSRs hostage.
 
S

Surfinn

Member
On Trump potentially blocking Comey testimony:

CNN said:
Experts say if the White House is determined to shut down Comey, lawyers could escalate the issue to a federal district court and try to obtain a court order blocking him from testifying, but such a move would be unprecedented and not a guaranteed recipe for success.

...

Harvard Law Professor Noah Feldman doubts Trump has the strongest argument in light of these facts, but it will likely depend on the scope of the assertion.

"The claim of executive privilege requires that the communications in question be confidential. Arguably, Trump has himself breached that confidentiality. It would be strange if he could then invoke privilege to block Comey from giving his version of events," Feldman told Bloomberg. "The exception would be any conversations that haven't yet been made public, by Comey or by Trump, assuming such conversations exist. If they do, they might well still be protected by the privilege."
Click to expand...

Sounds like the only chance would be to take it to court.

John Dean, just now on CNN, says it sounds like BS

Spoiled Milk said:
The supreme court determined the president can't claim executive privilege over conversations just to prevent a criminal investigation from proceeding.
Click to expand...

Was this during the time of Watergate?
 
N

nature boy

Member
Surfinn said:
Do you have a link or source? CNN said there's nothing actually written in regard to whether or not the president can use his executive privileges to block it.
Click to expand...

1) Comey is not a federal employee anymore, so only a court order could block his testimony. It's never gotten to that point though.

2) Trump has spoken about the Comey controversy publicly so he waivered that "privilege" the moment he talked about it.

Read this
 
B

Barzul

Member
Looking up executive privilege, I don't believe it would even work here. Comey is no longer a federal employee and the legislative branch is separate from the executive so the Senate can hold as many hearings as they want.
 
S

Surfinn

Member
nature boy said:
1) Comey is not a federal employee anymore, so only a court order could block his testimony. It's never gotten to that point though.

2) Trump has spoken about the Comey controversy publicly so he waivered that "privilege" the moment he talked about it.

Read this
Click to expand...

"Instead, the Justice Department could seek leverage over him by asking a Federal District Court judge for a restraining order barring his testimony. That would be unprecedented."

I read the same thing in the CNN article, using the same word. There have been a lot of "unprecedented" things happening in this admin. Luckily if it's up the the courts it will probably turn out like the travel ban, though.

Thanks for the link
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
Theresa May is an idiot.

Opinion_polling_UK_2020_election_short_axis.png


Blue = Tories
Red = Labour
Purple = UKIP
Orange = LibDem
 
S

studyguy

Member
whyamihere said:
Theresa May is an idiot.

Opinion_polling_UK_2020_election_short_axis.png


Blue = Tories
Red = Labour
Purple = UKIP
Orange = LibDem
Click to expand...


https://twitter.com/SteveKopack/status/870724899324788737
Steve Kopack (@SteveKopack)
1st question for Theresa May in BBC QT special -- "Why should anyone trust you given your track record of broken promises..."
Click to expand...


https://twitter.com/SteveKopack/status/870725349432332288
Steve Kopack (@SteveKopack)
Audience member follows up and says "everyone sees" that she is a back-tracker, refuses to go to debates, etc
Can tell May feels the heat
Click to expand...

lol
 
N

nature boy

Member
Surfinn said:
"Instead, the Justice Department could seek leverage over him by asking a Federal District Court judge for a restraining order barring his testimony. That would be unprecedented."

I read the same thing in the CNN article, using the same word. There have been a lot of "unprecedented" things happening in this admin. Luckily if it's up the the courts it will probably turn out like the travel ban, though.

Thanks for the link
Click to expand...

At best, if the WH tries that stunt, it will delay the hearing until the courts laugh the case out.

WH has no leverage whatsoever.
 
S

Spoiled Milk

Banned
whyamihere said:
Theresa May is an idiot.

Opinion_polling_UK_2020_election_short_axis.png


Blue = Tories
Red = Labour
Purple = UKIP
Orange = LibDem
Click to expand...
Those numbers shot way the hell up since you last posted them. Wow at Tories. Can someone explain to me what's been going on in UK politics since Brexit? I'm not even up to speed on who Corbyn is and why people don't like him.
 
O

Ogodei

Member
Emerson said:
It was for plenty of people. For others, it wasn't.

It would be a better strategy if his opponent wasn't the person most maligned by the conservative media in history.

It will work better in 2020, when anyone other than Trump's hopeless base will have seen that he's every bit the idiot they feared he might be, even if they gave him the benefit of the doubt in 2016.

It shouldn't be the core of the Democrats' message, because they still need to tell the people what they're going to do better. But completely ignoring the enormous orange elephant in the room isn't the right play either. "Fuck Trump" is a rallying cry for the left right now.
Click to expand...

The key is that for all the obvious, obvious reasons Trump would have made an awful President, he was still an unknown quantity vs a largely known quantity: sure he had a long history, but it wasn't in politics and people either didn't know about the horrors of his business failures or were willing to write them off because of how successful he ultimately was.

Trump lost the ability to claim being an outsider on January 20th, and every minute that ticks by since then shackles him more and more with America's problems in the minds of voters (fairly or unfairly, as he'll get blamed for problems that were around before he came in and for problems that he had no power to stop, just as Obama was).

That's why "Fuck Trump" becomes a winning strategy in 2020 but was a loser in 2016.

The only strategy issue is focusing on marginal Republicans and thinking you've got the base on lock.
 
O

Ogodei

Member
Spoiled Milk said:
Those numbers shot way the hell up since you last posted them. Wow at Tories. Can someone explain to me what's been going on in UK politics since Brexit? I'm not even up to speed on who Corbyn is and why people don't like him.
Click to expand...

Imagine Bernie Sanders if Sanders had no charisma and a dim grasp of electoral politics.

Now imagine that Sanders was actually a Democrat and seemed more focused on purging his party of the Clintonites than on ever fighting the GOP.

That's Corbyn and his problems in a nutshell. Same problem with Sanders where he waffles on key progressive issues because he views everything through a class-conflict lens and wants to see the left party get their old working class base back, but Sanders has always at least been energetic and seems like he sincerely cares about his cause, while Corbyn projects the image of the old professional protestor who gets up in arms because that's what he's supposed to do but doesn't really put passion in it.

I say this with the caveat that Labour seems to have turned it around once they successfully made the campaign about something other than Brexit and started reminding people how awful the Tories are on economic/welfare issues.
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
JP_ said:
It was modeled after Romneycare's exchanges, which also had the individual mandate, subsides, and medicaid expansion.
Click to expand...

"Romneycare" was passed by a 2/3 Democratic legislature moderated to get signed by Mitt Romney.

The original Heritage Foundation proposal included privatizing Medicare and Medicaid, minimal catastrophic care, and minimal regulations.
 
T

timetokill

Banned
sc0la said:
What other reason to use it in a headline would there be? Honest question. Like do you expect "Martin O'Mally's Modern Masculinity Makes Him a 2020 Contender?"

Edit:
allllllllliteration
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about only in headlines. I just mean in general.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
What strikes me as the most interesting part of the UK is the death of all 3rd parties.

Here were the 2010 polls. Same colors, but look how well LibDems were doing. And even the Other Parties were high:

UK_election_opinion_2005-2010.png


And then in 2015, where UKIP (purple) basically became a huge spoiler.

UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png


Of course, the polls in 2015 were Bad...

UK_Polling_results_vs_actual.png


But the share of the 3rd party vote seems significantly higher than the 2017 polls are proving. Like, if both the Tories and Labour get over 40%, that's pretty insane.
 
M

Macho Madness

Member
VendettaRed07 said:
Think that's mostly due to Conservative and Labour doing more now to appeal to the fringe than were before
Click to expand...

I think the fall of UKIP has a lot to do with Brexit being a settled thing and the Tories adopting a lot of their positions. They got what they wanted so what's the point of the separate party?
 
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