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PoliGAF Debate #3 Thread of Hey Joe, where you goin' with that plunger in your hand

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G

gkryhewy

Member
JayDubya said:
No, it is still its primary purpose. If needed the military has full priority over the IHS. We haven't exactly been invaded since 1956, but that is what the IHS was built for.

That it has other incidental benefits in its secondary / tertiary / etc. roles does not detract from that.
Click to expand...

I see you haven't responded to my original reply, but here's another note for the new page.

Your opinion is belied by the fact that the development of the Interstate network resulted in the creation of numerous militarily-interesting centers of development that would never have needed defense if not for the interstate highways enabling their development. Orlando, for example.
 
C

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
Hitokage said:
Hey, guess what, you're both right. Fortunately for us in the real world though, we depend on a system where all of these interests compete and check each other. You know, those "checks and balances" you mentioned earlier. The key question is what institution can be held more accountable and in a way that serves the public interest. Private entities hate transparency even more, but are controlled on a one-dollar-one-vote basis and the average citizen doesn't have the cash nor clout to wield any leverage. The media has the ability to prompt wider action, but they can only depend on what information they can obtain without the force of law, and even then it's all about who pays attention. Government though, has the resources to extract information and the ability to demand accountability. Who, then, watches government? Well, we all do, or at least, we're supposed to. Democracy in any form doesn't really work when the electorate shirks its duties.

Then again, you did mention earlier how you failed to see the difference between one-dollar-one-vote and one-person-one-vote, so I can see where you side with private interests.
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I now understand just why I appreciate Jaydubya's presence so much. And it's because he allows smarter guys like you and charlie to come in and smash his arguments to bits. I learn so much of the gaf collective it's not funny... but I wouldn't if there wasn't a person that could spur discourse. He's a good foil that man.
 
E

electricpirate

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Interesting that Obama is doubling down on going after McCain's healthcare plan.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/The_health_care_assault_part_498.html?showall

McCain focused a large portion of his recent economic proposals at seniors, clearly hoping to shore up support there. Obama is now going very heavily run an ad about the WSJ article about McCain's proposed cuts to Medicare. Ben Smith doesn't connect those dots, but I think it's partly an extension of Obama's strategy, and partly a response to McCain's proposals.

The ad is here: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1008/Obama_It_Gets_Worse.html?showall

It says everything that in the final days of the election, Obama is banking on policy issues and McCain is banking on fear and racism.
Click to expand...

It's a good tactic, McCain's health care policy, beyond being terrible, has changed about 4 times with no acknowledgment of why it has changed, and generally changed for the worse each time. I'd love to see an add where it went though those changes.
 
C

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
BenjaminBirdie said:
Hm. I seem to remember Kerry doing pretty well with those, though.
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Not as well as you remembered.

"The Obama-Biden ticket maintains its strong lead in the race for
newspaper endorsements, picking up seven more papers in the past day. This brings his lead over McCain-Palin by this measure to about 3-1 in both the number and circulation of the papers. In contrast, John Kerry barely edged George W. Bush in endorsements in 2004, by about 220 to 205."​
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
Crayon Shinchan said:
Not as well as you remembered.

"The Obama-Biden ticket maintains its strong lead in the race for
newspaper endorsements, picking up seven more papers in the past day. This brings his lead over McCain-Palin by this measure to about 3-1 in both the number and circulation of the papers. In contrast, John Kerry barely edged George W. Bush in endorsements in 2004, by about 220 to 205."​
Click to expand...

Phew!
 
J

JayDubya

Banned
Crayon Shinchan said:
I now understand just why I appreciate Jaydubya's presence so much. And it's because he allows smarter guys like you and charlie to come in and smash his arguments to bits.
Click to expand...

:lol

No, ... wait a second... :lol

That sort of ego is a cardinal sin in rhetoric. You agree with me, therefore you must be smart. You disagree with me, therefore you must be dumb.
 
P

PrivateWHudson

Member
CharlieDigital said:
I agree; people completely take for granted what the end results of government spending and investment are. They see things like satellites, roads, the Internet, without appreciating how it came into existence.
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Once again, byproduct of defense spending

They receive services like Medicare/Medicaid,
Click to expand...

Social programs that we could do without.

education, law enforcement, without appreciating how they are funded.
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All funded on the state level as it should be. (including that dead end residential road)

It's just too easy to use taxes as a bogeyman for those unwilling to examine the world around them and see all that has been enabled by the investment of our tax dollars under the stewardship of our government at a local and federal level.

Sure, there's always room for improvement in terms of efficiency and minimizing waste, but in such a large system, just like any other complex system (take the power loss from a car engine to the wheels, for example), there is bound to be loss somewhere in the system.

Government spending is necessary; we can only work to elect those who would most responsibly and intelligently, with an eye towards the future, spend on programs that would benefit the country and the citizens.
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Hope I'm not too late on this...I had to step away.
 
C

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
JayDubya said:
:lol

No, ... wait a second... :lol
Click to expand...

People that I agree with, tend to offer a more cohesive, considered view, painting with shades of gray, backing up with evidence. (They are after all, fundamentals for making a good argument... which (the good argument thing) is why I'd agree with them in the first place)

You're a good foil JD, but I do quite abhor your character. Pompous, arrogant, derisive, fundamentalist. It may be a little hypocritical for me to say this, given how much shit I give you, but it doesn't rule out the validity of the opinion.

I have moved to the positions I have through a history of been convinced by sound and solid arguments.

I actually entered into adult hood as a bit of a fundamentalist christian, but after taking courses in critical thinking (among other things), I have over time, adopted positions that have far more internal consistency, cohesiveness and logic to them.

The more I read, the more I experience... the more the cohesion and consistency of this world view is strengthened. Unlike the previous positions I came from.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
PrivateWHudson said:
Once again, byproduct of defense spending
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Also, NASA. Not sure if you want to lump that in with "defense". ARPANet was developed at universities. Students and professors could not have had the education and knowledge required to do the research without basic public education from K-12. So it's not so simple and clear cut; it's all interconnected in a sense and that's what I mean, people don't see these connections.

Social programs that we could do without.
Click to expand...

Let's wait until you're of age and you don't have employer sponsored healthcare and see how you feel.

All funded on the state level as it should be. (including that dead end residential road)
Click to expand...

They also draw from federal funds as well. See NCLB.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
JayDubya said:
:lol

No, ... wait a second... :lol

That sort of ego is a cardinal sin in rhetoric. You agree with me, therefore you must be smart. You disagree with me, therefore you must be dumb.
Click to expand...
*grips head to keep the irony from exploding it*
 
B

Brannon

Member
JzeroT1437 said:
It's interesting to go through and look at his sample paintings. It's always surreal to me realizing that these evil despots [like Hitler] were just average dudes who liked candy corn and other weird things.
Click to expand...

Definitive proof of his evilocity :mad:
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
n a victory for the state of Ohio, the US Supreme Court has overturned a lower court order, freeing the state from a requirement that it share information about voter databases with county election board
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Niccceeee.
 
G

ghibli99

Member
So yesterday driving home from work, I was listening to some conservative-leaning talk radio (which is most radio here in Phoenix), and a political analyst was talking about Obama's campaign and how it's really changed the way candidates connect not only with voters, but getting voters to communicate with each other. She cited many examples, including:

- In-game ads (like the ones in Burnout Paradise).
- iPhone application which scans your address book, allowing you to let people know based on location when campaign events are going on in their area, important news, etc.
- Look at something like Facebook, MySpace, etc.; Obama presence is overwhelming.

Hell, I was ready to call in and tell them about boards like this, where debate and political threads can be more active than gaming threads. It's not just here... most other boards that specialize in what are typically younger hobbies (car modding, tech, etc.) that appeal to the 18-26 crowd are also overwhelmingly abuzz with talk favoring Obama. I haven't seen young voter responses like this since the Clinton campaign that tapped into the MTV/Arsenio Hall generation.

This is not new news. It's been a cornerstone of their campaign since the beginning, and I remember people talking a lot about Obama back in 04. The thing that made me grin is that the show hosts sounded shocked. It's like they had no idea. It was pretty awesome. Maybe it's premature to say this, but when guys like Tucker say that the tightness of the race isn't being reflected in the polls, I agree: I think the margin is much wider since this particular demographic isn't being represented (and I don't think they're being talked about enough).
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
What the fuck? Who's this jerk using Chuck Todd's surface?! Blasphemy.
 
G

gkryhewy

Member
mckmas8808 said:
Okay so Obama went up .1 of a point. And we were crying earlier today. :lol
Click to expand...

Note that Ghaleon was leading the charge there ;). Perhaps Cheebs' Chicken Little moniker needs to be redirected.
 
H

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Gary Whitta said:
This is the political equivalent of a Zerg rush and McCain is almost out of Vespene gas.
Click to expand...
Nah, McCain is continuing to use archer regiments even as his settlements are swarmed with skeleton armies.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
theviolenthero said:
Cnn just aired another one of those McCain/Palin rally with the typical "terriorst/socialist/muslim/etc.." rage on full display.
Click to expand...

Prolly because they kicked some reporter this week. It's on one of nem Politico blogs.
 
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