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Polygon article on JonTron and A Hat in Time (Humble Bundle ... (READ MOD POST)

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Jimnymebob

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Mar 8, 2013
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Yea, pretty much.

I also would contend that if Gears had removed Jon 7 months ago during the YL events it would have not been nearly as damaging to them and would have blown over soon after.

YL was in a worse position, where Jon came out with his eugenic/ethnostate comments moments before the game's launch and they had to act quick. Playtonics resolve was also very impressive. I'd view it as, they tanked the most backlash from racists, but set precedent so that people like this, and especially Jontron wouldn't continue to get cameos in the gaming scene. They made it easier for anyone to follow their decision.

Exactly, Playtonic handled it as best as they possibly could, considering how close it happened to their release period.

I just hope there could be some sort of silver lining here, where JonTron could be removed from the game by the developers after a large volume of people choose to buy the game solely because they support his views.
 
May 5, 2017
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No, it is not impssible, of course not, but I just see no reason why anyone should, especially for such a game. I see his inclusion not as an endorsement of what he said, because the decision to include him predates the things he said, so the decision cannot be a consequence of his hate speech.
JTs inclusion without zero commentary to denounce his white supremacist rhetoric is absolutely an endorsement from the dev team. The decision to include him as well as not denounce his actions is what you would call am endorsement. You're trying to jump through a thousand holes just to defend this garbage inactivity from the devs. If you want to play this game fine ;we get it, but you're actively defending their actions.
 

erlim

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Aug 22, 2005
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Does how hateful someone is matter? Orson Scott Card hasn't just randomly said something, he has actively discussed his opinions at several occasions.

And with that are we really discussing degrees about it, or is the principle that matters? As I said in my post, it's putting blame about those who don't know about the involved peoples opinions, that I object to, that has been suggested here in the thread.

I see your point, and I'm definitely not trying to pin the blame on people that don't know who JonTron is, I don't believe the game should be canceled or anything. I do believe from a production standpoint, JonTron's involvement would be easy to erase.

My argument is that JonTron does represent a more dangerous involvement than aforementioned writers/celebrities. Social media didn't exist in the days of The Secret of Monkey Island, so unless Orson Scott Card was encoding his homophobic rhetoric into the game itself, his beliefs would go no further. Same with Doug Tennaple.

However, in JonTron's case, he has directly amassed a following. When he speaks of his views towards ethnic cleansing, he's doing it unfiltered---free of any editorial body. He has a direct one way communication to people who have chosen to follow him and support his personality. He can continue to reach out to these people, and through interviews at brietbart and outlets like that, can continue to indoctrinate even more people to his belief system. Furthermore, he's become a respected figure and beacon to alt-right organizations.

That said, obviously not everybody that provides him audience is giving into his rhetoric 100%, some still watch for his videogame coverage. You are correct that not everybody that purchases this game intends to condone his racism. Simply, there is more risk in supporting a man and his mindshare when his beliefs are so aggressive harmful and his potential for exposure is much higher than your average entertainer.

Imagine watching Fred Rodgers if all he was trying to do to kids was sell communism and misogyny. Jontron does reach an impressionable demographic.
 

Emperor_Uriel

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Jun 4, 2011
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If I only purchased products that were not contributed to (or created by) assholes, I'd probably never spend a dime.

Every week we pay bills to destructive companies owned by utterly vile people, my conscience can survive supporting a delightful game that has a single douche filling a minor role.
 

Wrestlemania

Banned
Oct 7, 2005
4,352
0
0
No, I'm just not seeing how his involvment, as it stands now, will lead to distributing his hate speech or his channel beyond people already aware of it (in itself, naturally, this topic or reaction topics like on Steam may have the effect).
Their tacit approval of what he has said shows there is a place for people who are openly white supremacist in the games industry. That is what will help perpetuate his hate speech.
 
Oct 9, 2005
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Gears for Breakfast's active choice to be inactive, is an action. Which regardless of their underlying intent or motivation, has the effect of appeasing and strengthening what Jontron represents.

Nazi types disliking it when you oppose them, is not a reason to be silent. When Nazis are on the rise, sitting idly by is the opposite of justifiable. That's when opposition matters the most. It's a societal duty.
This failure to perform it, and the possibility that Gears for Breakfast are actually on board with Jontron's vile garbage, is more than enough justification for me to boycott them.

How significant his role is, is kind of irrelevant. It might've been worse if he had more lines, but this is about the principle of the thing.
You have a white supremacist in your game. You are not removing him. You are not explaining why you are not removing him. You are not condemning his views.
 
Nov 20, 2008
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This is just my anecdotal experience of being in film production, but getting a new actor to ADR lines is not difficult logistically or cost prohibitive financially.

Had a film where the director and a leading actress engaged in a relationship, then broke up. Director adamantly refused to allow the actress to ADR some of her lines. A person somewhat resembling her timbre was brought in to dub.

Interesting. That's actually pretty surprising.

Do you think it matters much that this game was crowd funded? I guess without us knowing their financials it's hard to make any calls as to whether or not they can get it done.
 

erlim

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Interesting. That's actually pretty surprising.

Do you think it matters much that this game was crowd funded? I guess without us knowing their financials it's hard to make any calls as to whether or not they can get it done.

I don't think so. I would imagine at the high end of things a sound engineer and equipment would run about $300 and a new actor would be $100 for an independent game like this.

If I was the producer on this game, I'd probably eat the costs myself to remove JonTron---that's just me.
 

James Scott

Banned
May 24, 2014
11,385
2
0
If I only purchased products that were not contributed to (or created by) assholes, I'd probably never spend a dime.

Every week we pay bills to destructive companies owned by utterly vile people, my conscience can survive supporting a delightful game that has a single douche filling a minor role.
The issue is that we usually don’t actively know about it.
Here we do.
 

Foorbits

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Nov 14, 2008
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If I only purchased products that were not contributed to (or created by) assholes, I'd probably never spend a dime.

Every week we pay bills to destructive companies owned by utterly vile people, my conscience can survive supporting a delightful game that has a single douche filling a minor role.

That's fine if you want to buy the game and all but your reasoning could pretty much apply to nearly anything.

"Other people/companies are probably as bad or worse so my conscience is clear here."
 
Nov 26, 2015
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Interesting. That's actually pretty surprising.

Do you think it matters much that this game was crowd funded? I guess without us knowing their financials it's hard to make any calls as to whether or not they can get it done.

Supposedly a bunch of characters in the game feature only text boxes and no VA.

Considering JT was just voicing a minor character, they would likely just be able to remove the VA.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
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Sorry, I'm done with this concern trolling and gas lighting. Your M.O. is the same in these sorts of threads (like Sarkeesian threads for example), where you simply are "asking questions" and now you're trying to jump through hoops to disarm the criticism of silence = complicity. I am sorry, but I don't think you're acting in good faith in these conversations and I don't have time for throwing water at a wall. Maybe you're not aware of this, but you're doing the work of obscuring a discussion on how to approach the presence of neo-nazism in gaming culture and I'm not going to entertain it.

Maybe you have seen that I have retracted this point in terms of complicity, because people have shown to me how this is viable interpretation. I only maintain that calling it collaboration is off. It was an honest mistake of not thinking of all possible meanings of the term complicity.

And yes, I am not aware of this, because I think I am actually engaging in discussing exactly this, though I realise it is difficult to address it in such a way that the situation improves. I am of the opinion though that generalisations and simplifications (like grouping together "keeping in work of someone who has in the meantime said something racist" with "distributing and validating racist hate speech") is not doing the cause any favour.

Personally, for my behaviour, I came to the conclusion that boycotting a game over the involvement (in a smaller capacity) of someone who uses hate speech is not an effective way to combat those viewpoints, but I respect if others come to a different conclusion.
 
Nov 20, 2008
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I don't think so. I would imagine at the high end of things a sound engineer and equipment would run about $300 and a new actor would be $100 for an independent game like this.

If I was the producer on this game, I'd probably eat the costs myself to remove JonTron---that's just me.

That sounds affordable. It would cost more to submit and certify the patch it seems.

Thanks for your insight!
 
May 5, 2017
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Personally, for my behaviour, I came to the conclusion that boycotting a game over the involvement (in a smaller capacity) of someone who uses hate speech is not an effective way to combat those viewpoints, but I respect if others come to a different conclusion.
What's an effective way since voting with your wallet is not apparently
 

Foorbits

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Nov 14, 2008
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Personally, for my behaviour, I came to the conclusion that boycotting a game over the involvement (in a smaller capacity) of someone who uses hate speech is not an effective way to combat those viewpoints, but I respect if others come to a different conclusion.

How did you come to this conclusion though? If this game suffers because of JonTron's involvement that would cause other developers to potentially leave him out of their games. That reduces a known racist's influence and bank account.
 

Blam

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Exactly, Playtonic handled it as best as they possibly could, considering how close it happened to their release period.

I just hope there could be some sort of silver lining here, where JonTron could be removed from the game by the developers after a large volume of people choose to buy the game solely because they support his views.

I mean for Playtonic it seemed like it was a very small role. And what I'm seeing now is that Jon has multiple small roles in the game which could prove more difficult for them at this time at least to replace.
 

erlim

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The issue is that we usually don’t actively know about it.
Here we do.

And even then, this is such an extreme case.

You might have to be a bleeding heart to really care enough to not shop at Walmart or not eat at Jimmy John's; but this is pretty clear:

You have a influential internet celebrity who actively advocates racial cleansing with an expanding fanbase and support from an emboldened alt-left.

You have a developer who could and should easily denounce JonTron. Keeping him is not a matter of exercising their right, it's merely a matter of social responsibility---especially in light of their POC workers being upset at JonTron's involvement. Hate-filled rhetoric aside, why should the company support this youtube celebrity at the expense of the wellbeing of their own employees?

Again, not condemning purchasers of the game. It's less their fault than the developers at this point. As consumers we have demanded an n64 style platformer. Why do we being forced to accept JonTron and his undesirable ways in order to play this game?
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
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What's an effective way since voting with your wallet is not apparently

As I said, this is a difficult thing and just because I conclude one measure is not effective, it does not mean I have a load of other super effective measures at hand. What I do (or would do, depending on the involvement) is
(a) Do not consume opinion pieces by the author, especially not on Youtube or other venues where he directly generates profit
(b) Openly contradict his viewpoint
(c) Describe the view point as what it is and show up issues with it
(d) If I have previous involvement with the person: Openly debate and discuss his positions

In the near future I also plan on becoming politically active in a party to work towards a better future for our society (or what I perceive this to be, of course).

However, these are just the measures I would choose or think can be effective. There probably are others and there probably are a few I am not even aware of. But I acknowledge that this is a complicated thing to do.
 

Head.spawn

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Sep 3, 2013
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so what are the statistics that he spouted off as absolute fact in this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RQA9GZprqM

For a guy that values his own opinion on everything so highly, he sure as hell has a hard time putting up more than a mumblegruntlolzyooouknowwutimean!!yercrazyman!-incoherent response on literally every single answer to the questions being asked of him.

The only thing he seems to be absolutely sure of is 'the richest black ppl in america commit more crime than the poorest white populations in america" and "if you trick me into answering this, it's going to make me sound like a racist! and I'm no racist so I won't answer".

Amazing.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
May 4, 2005
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How did you come to this conclusion though? If this game suffers because of JonTron's involvement that would cause other developers to potentially leave him out of their games. That reduces a known racist's influence and bank account.

Let me first say that this sis not to judge other people's action, it is just how I arrive at my conclusion for my actions.

Lack of financial success of a game can not easily be traced back to single reasons and in case of a game where Jontron only has a minor involvement, it probably is not the prime reason a lack of sales succes would be traced back to, especially considering the small amount of people actively complaining about this. I deem it more likely that a lack of sales success would be traced back to design choices and maybe the genre - afterall, this is a genre that was left to rot precisely because people thought no one was going to buy games in it. Since not buying a game is not a message the developer can easily link to a single cause, I think it is probably not very effective.
 

erlim

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As I said, this is a difficult thing and just because I conclude one measure is not effective, it does not mean I have a load of other super effective measures at hand. What I do (or would do, depending on the involvement) is
(a) Do not consume opinion pieces by the author, especially not on Youtube or other venues where he directly generates profit
(b) Openly contradict his viewpoint
(c) Describe the view point as what it is and show up issues with it
(d) If I have previous involvement with the person: Openly debate and discuss his positions

In the near future I also plan on becoming politically active in a party to work towards a better future for our society (or what I perceive this to be, of course).

However, these are just the measures I would choose or think can be effective. There probably are others and there probably are a few I am not even aware of. But I acknowledge that this is a complicated thing to do.

Honestly I kind of agree with Lime, all the points you just expressed go without saying. Adding a boycott of a product that supports JonTron's bottom line, whether that be financially or by promoting him visibility could easily be part (e). It may not be the end all be all solution, but it certainly does help.

Arguing the use of the word 'collaboration,' or the use of syntax/semantics/linguistics really takes attention from the fact this man is a horrible racist.
 

Foorbits

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Let me first say that this sis not to judge other people's action, it is just how I arrive at my conclusion for my actions.

Lack of financial success of a game can not easily be traced back to single reasons and in case of a game where Jontron only has a minor involvement, it probably is not the prime reason a lack of sales succes would be traced back to, especially considering the small amount of people actively complaining about this. I deem it more likely that a lack of sales success would be traced back to design choices and maybe the genre - afterall, this is a genre that was left to rot precisely because people thought no one was going to buy games in it. Since not buying a game is not a message the developer can easily link to a single cause, I think it is probably not very effective.

I disagree. If this game bombs there is clear documentation on websites such as Polygon and the rest as to why this game potentially did bad. Lots of indie games live or die by the community reaction regardless of quality or design.
 

sangreal

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May 19, 2005
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It may even be in the contract that he has been paid already and therefore unable to removed from the game. we don't know the ins and outs.

Even if we go with this fantasy, there is a way for them to explain that. It's called issuing a statement, something they refuse to do which tells you all you need to know
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
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Honestly I kind of agree with Lime, all the points you just expressed go without saying. Adding a boycott of a product that supports JonTron's bottom line, whether that be financially or by promoting him visibility could easily be part (e). It may not be the end all be all solution, but it certainly does help.

Arguing the use of the word 'collaboration,' or the use of syntax/semantics/linguistics really takes attention from the fact this man is a horrible racist.

Well, it could be part of a point (e), but one which I deliberately did not put, because I do not deem it effective. This was to explain my reasoning, others may well add this point or subtract one of the points I mentioned, according to their individual assessment of the effectiveness of the action in question.

I think we were not discussing how horrible Jontron's positions were at that point. Jontron's positions were discussed already in the past and it is largely uncontested around here that they are vile and inacceptable, so I wouldn't have thought there is much attention to be taken away from that fact (because my attention at least did not lie on that point, since it is a months old, consensual point).
 

CecilRousso

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Jun 29, 2008
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I see your point, and I'm definitely not trying to pin the blame on people that don't know who JonTron is, I don't believe the game should be canceled or anything. I do believe from a production standpoint, JonTron's involvement would be easy to erase.

My argument is that JonTron does represent a more dangerous involvement than aforementioned writers/celebrities. Social media didn't exist in the days of The Secret of Monkey Island, so unless Orson Scott Card was encoding his homophobic rhetoric into the game itself, his beliefs would go no further. Same with Doug Tennaple.

However, in JonTron's case, he has directly amassed a following. When he speaks of his views towards ethnic cleansing, he's doing it unfiltered---free of any editorial body. He has a direct one way communication to people who have chosen to follow him and support his personality. He can continue to reach out to these people, and through interviews at brietbart and outlets like that, can continue to indoctrinate even more people to his belief system. Furthermore, he's become a respected figure and beacon to alt-right organizations.

That said, obviously not everybody that provides him audience is giving into his rhetoric 100%, some still watch for his videogame coverage. You are correct that not everybody that purchases this game intends to condone his racism. Simply, there is more risk in supporting a man and his mindshare when his beliefs are so aggressive harmful and his potential for exposure is much higher than your average entertainer.

Imagine watching Fred Rodgers if all he was trying to do to kids was sell communism and misogyny. Jontron does reach an impressionable demographic.

But the involvment in the game is the same for him, as for Orson Scott Card. The game is not the platform for him, and as far I've heard, he hasn't had any real contribution in the game at all. It's not something that will expand his audience unless he provides a stellar performance and people want to know "oh, who's this guy?!" - which we frankly know will not be the case.

I fully understand those who want to boycott the game (as for me, I had no interest in the game prior to this and doesn't have it now either), but let's not pretend that this will change anything for him. Me or you buying the game will not contribute to his audience. The only reason his involvment in the game could do that would be because of the controversy that it has caused, rather then anything with his actual contribution to the game.

Let me know if I've misunderstood what he does in the game.
 

RionaaM

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Jul 6, 2012
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Gears for Breakfast's active choice to be inactive, is an action. Which regardless of their underlying intent or motivation, has the effect of appeasing and strengthening what Jontron represents.

Nazi types disliking it when you oppose them, is not a reason to be silent. When Nazis are on the rise, sitting idly by is the opposite of justifiable. That's when opposition matters the most. It's a societal duty.
This failure to perform it, and the possibility that Gears for Breakfast are actually on board with Jontron's vile garbage, is more than enough justification for me to boycott them.

How significant his role is, is kind of irrelevant. It might've been worse if he had more lines, but this is about the principle of the thing.
You have a white supremacist in your game. You are not removing him. You are not explaining why you are not removing him. You are not condemning his views.
This is an excellent post. Despite me saying earlier that it wouldn't be fair to demand that Gears for Breakfast paint themselves as a target for harassment, racism and nazism should never be tolerated. This shit should not be allowed to fester. Thanks for stating this so well.

At the end of the day, whatever the reason for it, this silence lets racists continue to spread their horrible ideas unchallenged. We already saw how bad it could get with Gamergate, so we should all take a stand against hate and discrimination.
 

Manzoon

Banned
Jul 28, 2016
543
10
260
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Well goddamn it. I was looking forward to this game and had assumed Gene Pool Jon had been cut a while ago. Then I saw that shit the dev did in the past.

Hard skip, with a possible deep discount purchase later if they ever release a statement (not holding my breath). Going to make sure my other friends who buy games know about this.
 

erlim

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But the involvment in the game is the same for him, as for Orson Scott Card. The game is not the platform for him, and as far I've heard, he hasn't had any real contribution in the game at all. It's not something that will expand his audience unless he provides a stellar performance and people want to know "oh, who's this guy?!" - which we frankly know will not be the case.

I fully understand those who want to boycott the game (as for me, I had no interest in the game prior to this and doesn't have it now either), but let's not pretend that this will change anything for him. Me or you buying the game will not contribute to his audience. The only reason his involvment in the game could do that would be because of the controversy that it has caused, rather then anything with his actual contribution to the game.

Let me know if I've misunderstood what he does in the game.

No, I fully understand his limited involvement as only a voice actor. I'm just saying he is a more socially active and radically politicized figure that has much farther and more direct reach than any aforementioned individuals.
 
Apr 21, 2016
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Removing him from the game seems silly to me.

Do you remove James Woods from Casino because of the shitty things he's said and done?

I understand that it's much easier to replace a voice actor but I don't think it's necessary. He did a job he was paid for before all this stuff came out.

Wouldn't stop me from buying the game.

I think the difference is that Jontron isn't in this game in a professional capacity.

He's in this game as a cameo appearance for people that like Jontron. It's primarily fanservice and promoting his brand

Which at this point is....well....you know...
 

casey_contra

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If I only purchased products that were not contributed to (or created by) assholes, I'd probably never spend a dime.

Every week we pay bills to destructive companies owned by utterly vile people, my conscience can survive supporting a delightful game that has a single douche filling a minor role.

I love this sentiment.

I do think that, because of the "closeness" of JonTron to this and the small size of the dev, boycotting makes a little more sense. He's essentially treated as a guest.

I'm boycotting it until it hits Switch... aka not boycotting and just waiting until I can play it on the go :p

I have ALWAYS struggled with this, however. Do I separate the "Art" from the "Artist?" I remember this conflict with Chris Brown and his whole Rihanna thing. What makes it super hard is that here we have these small devs who worked so hard and made an (apparently) amazing product. Should they be punished because of one jerk? On the other hand they could simply take him out.

I honestly don't know and that makes me sad.
 

Valen

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Oct 19, 2013
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You know the irony of all this -

JonTron's new voice role in the game is actually a character I rigged and animated.


The character he voices was literally made possible by someone he thinks should be removed from the gene pool.
 
Aug 8, 2012
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I was kind of interested in the game. Its a hard pass till they tackle this head on now. And soon, otherwise this game is off my potential buy list for good.
 

Earth

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Apr 10, 2015
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You know the irony of all this -

JonTron's new voice role in the game is actually a character I rigged and animated.


The character he voices was literally made possible by someone he thinks should be removed from the gene pool.

The fuckery here is astounding - if the dev leads are not racist, there has to be some legal reason they're saying nothing and choosing to alienate even an ex-employee.

Their lack of response seems to be their response at this rate.

EDIT:
If you're on twitter, it would be a good idea to let him / them know about this.

Definitely worth contacting Polygon, yeah.
 
Jun 28, 2013
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You know the irony of all this -

JonTron's new voice role in the game is actually a character I rigged and animated.


The character he voices was literally made possible by someone he thinks should be removed from the gene pool.

If you're on twitter, it would be a good idea to let him / them know about this.
 

CecilRousso

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Jun 29, 2008
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No, I fully understand his limited involvement as only a voice actor. I'm just saying he is a more socially active and radically politicized figure that has much farther and more direct reach than any aforementioned individuals.

He is, but what I'm saying is that there's nothing about his involvment in this game, other then the controversy surrounding it that causes attentention for him, that changes his audience and reach.

It's reasonable to boycott it because you don't want to support devs who associates themselves with him, but whether the game sells 2 copies or 2 million copies won't have an effect on him or his audience. That's why I think that "support the game and you support racism and beyond" is a faulty argument.

I don't see this as an opportunity to promote his brand, unless he has a very prominent role in the game. With exception, as said before, the attention he gets now from the controversy.
 

Gotdatmoney

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May 5, 2014
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I didn't know refusing to spend dollars on a product associated with morally reprejensible views and making it known thatis the reason wasn't effective. Apparently you should give the devs all your money so they can see that ignoring peoples issues with a white supremacist shouting ethnic cleansing is an effective strategy. . .

I can't believe people actually wanna make that argument in good faith. I'm pretty fucking sure people respond when their money is being fucked up more than pretty much anything.
 

ramoisdead

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Feb 21, 2013
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You know the irony of all this -

JonTron's new voice role in the game is actually a character I rigged and animated.


The character he voices was literally made possible by someone he thinks should be removed from the gene pool.

Oh that sweet irony. What a shitstain JonTron is. And really fucked up that your former employer is staying mum about this just to appease toxic gamers.
 

Oersted

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Mar 14, 2012
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He is, but what I'm saying is that there's nothing about his involvment in this game, other then the controversy surrounding it that causes attentention for him, that changes his audience and reach.

It's reasonable to boycott it because you don't want to support devs who associates themselves with him, but whether the game sells 2 copies or 2 million copies won't have an effect on him or his audience. That's why I think that "support the game and you support racism and beyond" is a faulty argument.

Was that faulty argument ever not a straw man?
 

Glix

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Jan 28, 2008
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Slightly interested in this game but the Jontron thing makes sure I won't look into it any further.

No biggie, my huge backlog still exists.
 

Gotdatmoney

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He is, but what I'm saying is that there's nothing about his involvment in this game, other then the controversy surrounding it that causes attentention for him, that changes his audience and reach.

It's reasonable to boycott it because you don't want to support devs who associates themselves with him, but whether the game sells 2 copies or 2 million copies won't have an effect on him or his audience. That's why I think that "support the game and you support racism and beyond" is a faulty argument.

I don't see this as an opportunity to promote his brand, unless he has a very prominent role in the game. With exception, as said before, the attention he gets now from the controversy.

Who ever said they wanted to change JonTron's mind? I dont think anyone gives a fuck about changing dude's opinion. They care that people know he is trash and just allowing him to normalize this bile. People want consequences to actions.
 

CecilRousso

Member
Jun 29, 2008
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Who ever said they wanted to change JonTron's mind? I dont think anyone gives a fuck about changing dude's opinion. They care that people know he is trash and just allowing him to normalize this bile. People want consequences to actions.

I agree about consequences to his actions. My comments this has only been about the part where people wanted to put blame on those buying the game without knowing about him and his involvment in the game.

I only know about this involvment, and about him at all, because of Neogaf. If I had bought the game without knowing this, then I don't agree that I would have helped normalize his views, or support them.
 

Nitpicker_Red

Member
Jul 28, 2016
323
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I didn't know refusing to spend dollars on a product associated with morally reprejensible views and making it known thatis the reason wasn't effective. Apparently you should give the devs all your money so they can see that ignoring peoples issues with a white supremacist shouting ethnic cleansing is an effective strategy. . . [...]

The question would be here how strong is the association?
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
May 5, 2014
9,911
2
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The question would be here how strong is the association?

Who cares? Why do we need to make arbitrary lines? We all are talking about it right now aren't we? We have a dev who worked on this game who is one of the people JonTron shat on don't we? When someone says Hat in Time there is a chance they will think of JonTron now. There have been articles written on major games sites. Why the fuck wouldn't you reject white supremacy when someone associated with your brand promotes it in any way?

"Oh he's only a little racist amd he only works for us an hour on Wednesdays. It's fine"

Is that how you feel?
 

erlim

yes, that talented of a member
Aug 22, 2005
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I agree about consequences to his actions. My comments this has only been about the part where people wanted to put blame on those buying the game without knowing about him and his involvment in the game.

I only know about this involvment, and about him at all, because of Neogaf. If I had bought the game without knowing this, then I don't agree that I would have helped normalize his views, or support them.

I never argued that people should be villainized for supporting this game when they don't know better. But now we all obviously know in here, we are imbued with a responsibility to make a choice with social repercussion.
 

CecilRousso

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Jun 29, 2008
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I never argued that people should be villainized for supporting this game when they don't know better. But now we all obviously know in here, we are imbued with a responsibility to make a choice with social repercussion.

Didn't say that you personally did that. My posts in this thread started with me commenting about that though, against those arguments I've heard for that. And each subsequent post I've done since that has been answers to replies about that.
 
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Deleted member 126221

Unconfirmed Member
The question would be here how strong is the association?

By staying silent, they are tacitly approving his bullshit, so it's hard to dissociate the two.

That's a shame, because the game looks super-good otherwise, but there's so many good games coming out these days that I can happily spend my money elsewhere until they decide to address this.
 
May 5, 2017
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I agree about consequences to his actions. My comments this has only been about the part where people wanted to put blame on those buying the game without knowing about him and his involvment in the game.

I only know about this involvment, and about him at all, because of Neogaf. If I had bought the game without knowing this, then I don't agree that I would have helped normalize his views, or support them.
As far as I can tell everyone in this thread understands his views and what they represent. Yes people will unfortunately unknowingly buy this product, they shouldn't be blamed for that.
 

HotchieMotchie

Neo Member
Jun 5, 2017
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My guess is that GfB thinks that YL taking out their Jontron reference significantly hurt their sales, even though there is no actual proof of this. Staying silent and hoping this all blows over is the coward's approach.
 
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