Twenty7KVN
Member
E3 doesn't exist in his world.
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Polygon: "What Nintendo has learned from Kickstarter"
- Thread starter onlyindreams
- Start date
It would still be a completely ridiculous statement to make.
The games that Nintendo 'announced' and didn't show footage of were Smash Bros., Mario Kart and a 3D Mario.
To suggest that these three games won't be released is just so unfathomably asinine. Kohler is usually a smart guy who writes good things, but in this case he's just completely missed the mark.
In fact the whole press reaction to this is so weird. Nintendo announced some games, and also did the whole announcing of announcing games, which is always annoying but certainly not unique to them. Every company ever has said "We'll talk more about that at E3."
I mean, I'm starting to think there must be something to the whole 'We're bitter because they're completely bypassing us' thing.
They used to tease or show games that were years out all the time until the Wii came along.
Kohler's article probably deserves it's own thread for the misuse of that loaded word.
I actually agree with the article. I watched the Nintendo Direct last night and I was just talking with a friend a few hours ago about how refreshingly weird it was.
The tone and the candid-seeming way it was presented are what made this feel much different from your typical hyper-polished/filtered E3 announcement. It's didn't seem like marketing hype and empty promises, it felt more honest and realistic. As someone that owns a Wii U and has been pretty disappointed with Nintendo's output, the recent Nintendo direct was pretty effective at increasing my confidence for the system.
The tone and the candid-seeming way it was presented are what made this feel much different from your typical hyper-polished/filtered E3 announcement. It's didn't seem like marketing hype and empty promises, it felt more honest and realistic. As someone that owns a Wii U and has been pretty disappointed with Nintendo's output, the recent Nintendo direct was pretty effective at increasing my confidence for the system.
Valkyr Junkie
Member
Well usually when they do they at least have a trailer, or concept art, or an actual name. It was worse than Sony announcing "Agent" when they were in a similarly awful position with the PS3.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Hell, I remember people wryly noting that even after Iwata talked about Nintendo not revealing games more than 6 months before launch, they still did it quite a few more times, for both Wii and 3DS games. It's really been just the last year where they suddenly clammed up, and look how that worked out for them.
I'm not sure why the games journalism Twitterati are deciding that blurry parallels between business presentations and buzzword semantics are the place to stand their ground and circle the wagons, but hey.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Labelling games not currently available to buy in your country as vapourware must sure make doing previews difficult.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I do agree that Smash, Mario Kart, and 3D Mario were totally "Please buy our system, the big games the mass market loves are coming!" announcements and I can see feeling burned that they teased them and didn't show them.
I also understand that they either don't have enough to show or are purposely saving a few big guns for E3 to fight for any press coverage whatsoever there. It's no secret where most people's attention will be.
So, yes, it kind of sucks that they did not show games that they announced as in-development, but unless you have proof they're actually not in development, calling it vaporware is a very loaded and accusatory term. And if you do have that proof, that'd make a really good piece of games journalism that you should probably post.
I also understand that they either don't have enough to show or are purposely saving a few big guns for E3 to fight for any press coverage whatsoever there. It's no secret where most people's attention will be.
So, yes, it kind of sucks that they did not show games that they announced as in-development, but unless you have proof they're actually not in development, calling it vaporware is a very loaded and accusatory term. And if you do have that proof, that'd make a really good piece of games journalism that you should probably post.
ChosenPredator
Banned
Nintendo to start gamestarter where indie devs can submit their videos and info on the marketplace for nintendo funded indie game projects ooooo yeah!
EmCeeGramr
Member
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2012/07/gamelife-video-vaporware/
I'm not sure how Chris managed to chisel it down to 5 games. After all, this was a month after E3, where literally dozens of vaporware games are announced each day!
I'm not sure how Chris managed to chisel it down to 5 games. After all, this was a month after E3, where literally dozens of vaporware games are announced each day!
Hot Coldman
Banned
Is there any way to be separated from gaming media's definition of "GAF" without being banned
I would pay in kind
I would pay in kind
Team Filler
Member
Almost all of the Nintendo Directs are like this. It is very typically treated as a way that Iwata and company can have a more intimate and direct contact with their customers. Iwata Asks interviews are typically very well done and informative, in ways that one wouldn't normally expect from what is essentially advertisement.
Sometimes, it really does seem like some of these enthusiast pressers act like they are entitled and butthurt over the way Nintendo conducts its business.
Add all the websites are exclusively talking about Nintendo. Websites like G. N., Nintendo World Report, Nintendo Life,... are now more popular to read the Nintendo news than GameSpot, IGN, Gametrailers or Polygon. Nintendo knows these websites exist so they feed them with these Nintendo directs. While the others are just bashing Nintendo for no reasons. Does all the "big" gaming websites broadcast the Nintendo directs? If they don't care about broadcasting Nintendo directs, why should Nintendo care about them? All Nintendo needs is more mainstream journalism with a better marketing.
Dr.Palutena
Member
I propose we rename them Vapour Views instead then.
And to be fair, everyone knows those games are coming, Iwata even said it himself. They can hardly be called announcements. Had they not shown games that are coming out within a year or so and stuck with simply apologizing and saying "we're making Mario guys, please buy Wii U!", these articles would make more sense. Even then comparisons with Kickstarter and vaporware would be a ridiculous stretch at best.
So he was using it properly as recently as last July. That makes his recent article even weirder.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
Yep,I remember waiting 3 years for OoT
Smash was already announced though (even though it will release last of those three).
Dave Meltzer
Banned
God why can't GAF understand the genius of Polygon and Wired. Why are we so stupid 
How can I be as intelligent as Chris Kohler? How do I become as insightful as Chris Plante? Please, give me some tips
How can I be as intelligent as Chris Kohler? How do I become as insightful as Chris Plante? Please, give me some tips
Lord Ghirahim
Member
I'm really enjoying the whole ND-fueled carnival of stupid.
Don't expect him to be logically consistent. He isn't concerned about reason.
JoeyJungle
Banned
I don't see what earned this the negativity bandwagon it got. This is Chris Plante's analysis of the Nintendo direct, and there's definitely a comparison to be made between the way kickstarter updates work and the direction that nintendo direct is taking. This is an appropriate article for Polygon's website. Opinion pieces I disagree with are A-Okay.
I'm way more "outraged" (mildly annoyed) at the constant stream of trailer announcements that clog up my RSS feed every day. Especially when every website starts posting stories about the accouncement of a trailer that inevitably won't show anything about the game itself (teaser trailer for Cyberpunk 2077). I mean, REALLY?
Also,
It's a Wired article. Anything coming out of Wired is either an interesting piece of longform tech journalism (about 5% of their content) or it's a numbered list (95% of their content). Almost all numbered lists are basically worthless content-fillers and should be taken with a copious amount of salt.
I'm way more "outraged" (mildly annoyed) at the constant stream of trailer announcements that clog up my RSS feed every day. Especially when every website starts posting stories about the accouncement of a trailer that inevitably won't show anything about the game itself (teaser trailer for Cyberpunk 2077). I mean, REALLY?
Also,
It's a Wired article. Anything coming out of Wired is either an interesting piece of longform tech journalism (about 5% of their content) or it's a numbered list (95% of their content). Almost all numbered lists are basically worthless content-fillers and should be taken with a copious amount of salt.
ShockingAlberto
Member
"So what are you taking me in for, Games Journalism? Graphics aren't good enough, no online announcements?"
"You know what you did, Nintendo. Announcing games too early! You're going away for a long time."
"Heh heh, poor Nintendo. You know, we had a lot of fun tonight. But, there's nothing funny about...vapor ware. Its the third most common cause of stalling. So please, take care of your video game console and get it checked. I'm Chris Kohler, good night!"
"..."
jaundicejuice
Member
These direct developer-to-consumer media events have got to be kind of threatening to enthusiast sites like Polygon because they're being excluded from their standard role of the source of information distribution. The middleman has effectively been cut out. Imagine how different the tone of one of the many critics would be if their site got the exclusive story rights that revealed Monolith's "X".
EmCeeGramr
Member
i'm dying
nckillthegrimace
Member
I have some suggestions for the title:
"Nintendo stock explosion caused by bomb or vaporware."
"Games coming, claims Iwata, noted liar."
"Wired gets the vapors, takes company to task for announcing games."
"Is video game writing the last bastion of yellow journalism?"
Hahahahahahaha, well played.
In terms of Mario kart and 3D Mario, they will actually have playable software, a far cry from vapourware, no? How does that resonate with anything to do with a kickstarter?
Nintendo could have talked about games coming soon. Release date for The wonderful 101 as well as more info on it, features etc. The same for Wii fit U, Bayonetta 2, Allen's, Revelations, Pikmin and even more info on rayman legends. Never mind the plethora of 3DS software they could have shed more light on. They chose specifically to talk about the future of the system.
Nintendo could have talked about games coming soon. Release date for The wonderful 101 as well as more info on it, features etc. The same for Wii fit U, Bayonetta 2, Allen's, Revelations, Pikmin and even more info on rayman legends. Never mind the plethora of 3DS software they could have shed more light on. They chose specifically to talk about the future of the system.
Team Filler
Member
Oh man, I love this one.
Chû Totoro
Member
Thank you wise sir.
Kacho
Member
This is amazing.
Blind rage against gaming journalism? Please.
Edit: Holy shit, ShockingAlberto! LOL
onlyindreams
Banned
LOL @ "I'm not sure you guys write"
Neuromancer
Member
Kickstarter to the left to me, vaporware on the right
I'm stuck in the middle with U
I'm stuck in the middle with U
Beermeister
Banned
No. Truth hurts, eh?
God why can't GAF understand the genius of Polygon and Wired. Why are we so stupid
How can I be as intelligent as Chris Kohler? How do I become as insightful as Chris Plante? Please, give me some tips
for starters, you should change your name to Chris, it seems to be some kind of pattern, anyways, those games are less of a vaporware than versus XIII or Last story in fact, I believe that Yoshi and Zelda WW will be released sometime between may and august
EmCeeGramr
Member
What would "hurt" about the idea of Nintendo (using time travel) taking inspiration from Kickstarter?
I agree that´s the reason I stopped visiting sites run by "gaming journalists" years ago. If I want to know different opinions on the internet or to discuss I just visit a forum.
Nintendo has been doing this longer than the game devs have on Kickstarter. Even if it didn't, who cares? Being more close and transparent isn't a bad thing.
That is only the illusion of close contact that I'm talking about. The other talking points: big promises and "buy into my console for the future", are how new consoles have been marketed for generations. Not just yesterday.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
They didn't throw a party for journalists.
turnbuckle
Member
Possibly in the top 10 of first posts on the gaming side.
FoneBone said:
Haven't followed Kohler in awhile but that's because I haven't really followed gaming news in general as much lately beyond checking GAF. Love the back patting of a peer in his field over something little more insightful than a thread-ending post nobody pays attention to. Bonus points for calling out GAF as a whole as being out of touch and quick to anger "as usual". As a member of the forum himself and regular guest on the defunct Gafcast I guess he's lumping himself in with the rest of us blind idiots.
Generally like what Kohler has to say, but this was a bit pathetic. Almost so bad that it would seem he's trolling just to get people to start talking about him so he can have his ego inflated.
I'm wondering what informs the sort of editorializing presented by this Polygon article. Is it the apparently underwhelming sales of the Wii U? The already mentioned fear of loss of readership to direct company contact? Still adjusting/being resistant to transparency spreading (games journalists to readers through social media, comments sections etc, or even publications still unsure of how to understand Nintendo Direct)?
I understand the title of the article is clickbait-y and that can be its own reason but trying to figure it out
I understand the title of the article is clickbait-y and that can be its own reason but trying to figure it out
Jailer of Hope
Member
What? I don't get the impression that anything Nintendo announced was pending development lest they reach a crowd funded investment goal.
I don't see what's wrong with "in-the-works" announcements. The movie industry does it as soon as hands are shook and papers are signed.
I don't see what's wrong with "in-the-works" announcements. The movie industry does it as soon as hands are shook and papers are signed.