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Polygon: "What Nintendo has learned from Kickstarter"
- Thread starter onlyindreams
- Start date
EmCeeGramr
Member
I don't think it's a negative article, I just think it feels lazy as hell. Topical thing plus other topical thing are kind of similar - here are some Twitter posts from developers who sort of agree with me.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
I doubt the writer is old enough to know what Spaceworld is.
Hell we still don't have our Evangelion movie I was promised nearly a decade ago
I didn't say it wasn't lazy. But people seem to be lumping it in with the super hostile Edge article as some part of an ongoing Journalists vs Nintendo Direct thing.
Yeah, isn´t it crazy how fast the industry adapt to the Kickstarter model? Financing games with previous ones, announcing games BEFORE they are released... imagine all the crazy stuff which could happen at E3.
I don't remember Iwata asking people for donations. The fact that they're using their own money to fund risky new IPs like the Wonderful 101 shows they have learned nothing from the glorious age of Kickstarter, where you can get the fans to pay in advance and don't have to take any risks and still keep all the profits.
Hobbestetrician
Member
Quoting for a new page. Shocking bringing the Heat to Kobun.
"So what are you taking me in for, Games Journalism? Graphics aren't good enough, no online announcements?"
"You know what you did, Nintendo. Announcing games too early! You're going away for a long time."
"Heh heh, poor Nintendo. You know, we had a lot of fun tonight. But, there's nothing funny about...vapor ware. Its the third most common cause of stalling. So please, take care of your video game console and get it checked. I'm Chris Kohler, good night!"
"..."
mugurumakensei
Member
Nah man. The press got ahold of Wii U successor plans. Nintendo will be doing a kickstarter from January 1, 2015 onwards. At 100 million, specs will be marginally better than PS4. 250 mill, decent leap from PS4. 1 Billion, Match top of the line PC.
Rewards:
$1-2000, 1 eShop dollar for every 50 dollars. $2000 - 10000, same as above plus 50 off final retail price. $10000+, 150 off final retail price plus previous rewards.
What Kickstarter has learned from Nintendo?
You summed up all my feelings I've had towards all of this. No announcements? No games. Announcements? Panic mode. Can't win.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Alberto :lol
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
Brilliant comment from "SuperRob" on that article.
I retract everything I said. The direct was very kickstarter-inspired.
But this is something we already knew. We have been upset for months. Why are people so freshly upset about this after the conference? No big game was going to be announced for three weeks from now. This was never going to change that.
Systems fans often do this. Its annoying.
Neuromancer
Member
That and the headline suggests a definite link between the two topical things, perhaps based on a statement someone at Nintendo made or some incontrovertible evidence. After reading the article I can only conclude that that link does not exist in reality.
Yeah, this is what I thought too.
turnbuckle
Member
I don't feel like the article is angry, just that it's really stretching. Taking two vaguely related things, finding some common thread, and spitting out an article full of assertions that are so weak it sounds like the author just needed to get an article put up that mentioned Nintendo for some hits.
Polygon said:
This feels like something that's been happening forever. Off the top of my head I'm thinking of the Nintendo "Ultra 64". There was so many promises and hype leading up to it, lots of articles going into the technology and touting the "Dream Team" in Nintendo Power, and even arcade titles that prominently mentioned "Ultra 64" to players as a glimpse of what was going to be coming once the console finally came out. Having videos from Nintendo Power sent to our mailboxes, etc. etc.
Using a bad E3 as an example of how this Nintendo Direct is taking a page from kickstarter is silly. What page was Nintendo taking during 2004 E3 that they didn't have in 2003?
I think it's more that indie developers on kickstarter took pages from all of these companies and incorporated it into a site that allows cusomters to directly invest in certain projects. Nothing in the Nintendo Direct video involved something like that. Generating hype, showing off products, and making announcements of announcements has been par for the course for this industry since forever.
I don't think it's entirely accurate or inaccurate.
I don't think they are hostile towards ND, but I do think they are trying to find a way to turn the big news of the day into something since.. other than that would simply be resharing links to videos/news Nintendo themselves already announced.
Which is why you see folks trying to editorialize, what is basically just announcements.
Quadrangulum
Banned
I'm sure this has been said already because it is so plainly obvious. Grand promises characterize a console reveal. In the historical comparison, the Wii U had a very sedate debut which many believed to be a mistake. The most recent ND is just a late coming form of the usual hype-rousing.
I think even the ND was rather mild. These are all real games, most of which were shown with actual gameplay footage and they're going to be released regardless of the Wii U's sales performance so the Kickstarter comparison is not particularly apt. How is this situation any different than when Nintendo reversed the hemorrhaging of the 3DS, a Vita game heaven, or the Cirque du Soleil Kinect extravaganza?
I wonder what the author will say when Orbis and Durango emerge from what are surely going to be CG-festooned launch parties that advertise proofs of concept, games several years off etc.
I think even the ND was rather mild. These are all real games, most of which were shown with actual gameplay footage and they're going to be released regardless of the Wii U's sales performance so the Kickstarter comparison is not particularly apt. How is this situation any different than when Nintendo reversed the hemorrhaging of the 3DS, a Vita game heaven, or the Cirque du Soleil Kinect extravaganza?
I wonder what the author will say when Orbis and Durango emerge from what are surely going to be CG-festooned launch parties that advertise proofs of concept, games several years off etc.
Kacho
Member
That's why the comparison is so silly to me.
He says:
Those games will continue to exist whether you choose to invest in them now or later. They won't suddenly 'vaporize' if they fail to meet their sales expectations at the end of the fiscal year.
So, no, it's not a Kickstarter really.
Promises, promises.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
If Nintendo Directs didn't exist(& followed the usual way games are announced) all these sites would have likely just run the PR & the trailers, how many people who watched the Nintendo Direct would be interested in clicking on that?
That's why the article isn't "Nintendo is literally running a Kickstarter" and instead makes some comparisons in terms of communication approach.
Of course gaffers don't "miss the point," I don't know where that notion ever came from
EmCeeGramr
Member
tell me about what the Revolution will look like. does it have Mario 128 in HD?
Straight ether.
Baconsammy
Banned
His point being game companies no longer need gaming media, which is completely at odds with how closely game companies monitor metacritic, which itself measures the response of gaming media. The opposite of 'brilliant', imo.
LOL, first post gets it right.
This is true, but I think outside of reviews/metacritic/scores that are given from gaming sites, they are becoming less needed. However, not many people keep up with Nintendo Directs and what is going on in the world of video games, which is how IGN has a lot of readers.
This is true, but I think outside of reviews/metacritic/scores that are given from gaming sites, they are becoming less needed. However, not many people keep up with Nintendo Directs and what is going on in the world of video games, which is how IGN has a lot of readers.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
It will take a lot of convincing for me to believe Nintendo give a shit about metacritic
After reading the article it makes even less sense.
They didn't make "big promises". They mentioned some of the games they're working on. They didn't make any exaggerated claims about how lifechangingly awesome those games will be, just mentioned they're on the way but won't be shown until E3. Saving big games for E3 is hardly unprecendented, but they pretty much had to mention them to avoid the entire internet screaming "WHERE'S MAH SMASH BROS".
As for Iwata speaking directly to the fans, you can hardly give Kickstarter credit for that. Iwata has been working hard to increase the transparency ever since he took over. He's conducted over a hundred develop interviews and done the Nintendo Directs for over a year. Also I don't get how people pretend they didn't announce a bunch of stuff.
They didn't make "big promises". They mentioned some of the games they're working on. They didn't make any exaggerated claims about how lifechangingly awesome those games will be, just mentioned they're on the way but won't be shown until E3. Saving big games for E3 is hardly unprecendented, but they pretty much had to mention them to avoid the entire internet screaming "WHERE'S MAH SMASH BROS".
As for Iwata speaking directly to the fans, you can hardly give Kickstarter credit for that. Iwata has been working hard to increase the transparency ever since he took over. He's conducted over a hundred develop interviews and done the Nintendo Directs for over a year. Also I don't get how people pretend they didn't announce a bunch of stuff.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
He never claimed that game companies don't need the gaming media, just that they are less relevant than they used to be(and given the inability of most of the media to react to the rise of streaming/YouTube, it's hard to disagree).
Well, he's wrong about companies not needing the gaming media, but I think he's very right about the media's tendency to do little more than regurgitate PR.
it would had been better perhaps if they touched on how SMT x FE came into being. And what this means for smaller developer studios like Atlus. Mr. Iwata said in the Nintendo Direct they are doing the game in that fashion BECAUSE development costs are so high, and it makes more sense to collaborate on HD games than trying to "go it alone" and a key phrase he said was "there will be more such announcements in the future." I can kinda view that as a company to company kickstarter. "Hey you help bring games to us, and we'll help you with HD development." Heck someone should start a thread about those possibilities.
But just general crowdsourcing? No.
But just general crowdsourcing? No.
It would be more accurate to say that some game companies still have a mutually beneficial relationship with the games media (a holdover from print, for the most part), but Nintendo and a few others who take direct measures to interact with customers don't really need to dilute that communication through a largely unprofessional press. I expect this to happen more and more over this generation.
If the only thing of interest in the major sites is their access to raw information, and the raw information is presented in a better way from the source, why go elsewhere? Maybe people would stay with these sites if they had anything of value to say about events like Nintendo Direct, but they don't. It's the same with Valve and Blizzard. They engage directly with their customers, and detailed analysis for those that want it comes from Valve/Blizz-centric communities and forums rather than the press, so why would their customers want to read Polygon/Kotaku/IGN's ill-informed conjecture about the next WoW expansion or DOTA news?
It's even more ridiculous when you have sites like rockpapershotgun, which should be at a disadvantage because most PC devs have switched to direct-to-customer relationships and marketing, but it has no problem putting out great articles consistently, and gives at least entertaining and informative coverage of even standard press releases.
Schnozberry
Member
I think Nintendo's acknowledgement of their own shortcomings, and that they are willing to collaborate and potentially fund projects they find interesting for Wii U will bear a lot of fruit. Everybody on GAF has seen the graveyard of development studios that has expanded far too much over the past few years. This is one of the ways Nintendo can ensure the Wii U gets original content, and take some of the pressure off of their own development teams so they can release games with a level of polish people have come to associate with first party Nintendo titles.
I think there is already a thread about this, but I would love to see a Nintendo reach out to a company like Valve. I know Gabe had spoke numerous times about making a game for the Wii he could play with his kids that everybody in a family could get something out of. The Wii U is far more capable of running Valve's existing or upcoming engines, so it wouldn't be such a time consuming thing to do technically.
ambientmystic
Member
Preach it brother. The Gaming press has largely been relegated to glorified PR mouthpieces anyway. NDs from Nintendo and direct lines from the PC companies are the way forward in this day. It's only a matter of time and when Sony, MS and other 3rd partys like EA and Activision have their own ND-like events online, the likes of IGN et. al will be irrelevant.
Think of the millions they save in PR costs wining and dining those pretentious bloggers by just producing a 30 odd minute video like Nintendo does that allows them to cut the BS and engage their customers (us) directly showing off their latest games.
the future is here
timetokill
Banned
Good lord, a Nintendo Direct where Nintendo announces/mentions a lot of software and people are having goddamn breakdowns.
It makes sense that Polygon would worry; Nintendo marches to the beat of their own drum, and that drum is saying that the enthusiast press is worthless/useless to them except in particular circumstances. This makes a lot of sense due to the adversarial mentality a lot of the enthusiast media, especially in the west, has towards Nintendo.
So why not just skip them entirely and go straight to the consumer? Nintendo views E3 as a way to announce their products to the mass market; they're not concerned with what Polygon writes about them, they're concerned about securing coverage in mainstream newspapers, magazines, and television shows.
Why bother spending the Doritos to secure Geoff Keighley's supportive coverage when you can just skip that whole amateur-hour bullshit sphere altogether and put videos on the web for consumers to view? Why not just stream it straight to your customers on their Nintendo devices?
With Nintendo Directs and Iwata Asks interviews, Nintendo seems committed to saying they'll do their own "games journalism" with better developer interviews than you get from the enthusiast press, insight into the company, etc. They can control the message entirely, and not worry about Crecente inserting a quip about the lack of online Pokemon or some shit.
It makes sense that Polygon would worry; Nintendo marches to the beat of their own drum, and that drum is saying that the enthusiast press is worthless/useless to them except in particular circumstances. This makes a lot of sense due to the adversarial mentality a lot of the enthusiast media, especially in the west, has towards Nintendo.
So why not just skip them entirely and go straight to the consumer? Nintendo views E3 as a way to announce their products to the mass market; they're not concerned with what Polygon writes about them, they're concerned about securing coverage in mainstream newspapers, magazines, and television shows.
Why bother spending the Doritos to secure Geoff Keighley's supportive coverage when you can just skip that whole amateur-hour bullshit sphere altogether and put videos on the web for consumers to view? Why not just stream it straight to your customers on their Nintendo devices?
With Nintendo Directs and Iwata Asks interviews, Nintendo seems committed to saying they'll do their own "games journalism" with better developer interviews than you get from the enthusiast press, insight into the company, etc. They can control the message entirely, and not worry about Crecente inserting a quip about the lack of online Pokemon or some shit.
GameCenterXDS
Member
yeah what the fuck!? An investment now will get you what you want later? Its the same fucking thing the industry has always done, show a bunch of games before they come out. Nintendo is just doing it on their own now. What a stupid comparison. I'm sick of this anti-Nintendo agenda.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
What Chris Plante Can Learn About Relevant Similes
metalslimer
Member
I think that horrendous Kohler article is the real horrible thing here. With the new console announcements, I can't wait to see how horrible games journalism gets this year.