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[Jin34]

So why is Nintendo (rumored) to be going with only 512-1GB of RAM? Are they *that* cheap and short-sighted? 2GB would future proof them so much more.

Because going with the Ram Henry mentioned (DDR3) would be a gigantic bottleneck. Video Cards use a different type of Ram (currently GDDR5) which is many, many times faster than DDR3 and as you can imagine it is also more expensive and not the "I can get 4 gigs for $90!" variety.

Even the 360 uses ram that is much faster than DDR3 (GDDR3 the predecessor to GDDR5).

 

[Lonely1]

This game runs off of Unreal Engine 3:

http://i55.tinypic.com/14nikya.gif

Which game is that?

Because going with the Ram Henry mentioned (DDR3) would be a gigantic bottleneck. Video Cards use a different type of Ram (currently GDDR5) which is many, many times faster than DDR3 and as you can imagine it is also more expensive and not the "I can get 4 gigs for $90!" variety.

Even the 360 uses ram that is much faster than DDR3 (GDDR3 the predecessor to GDDR5).

Plus Nintendo, since the N64 debacle, they seem to prefer faster RAM, even than what the competitors use.

 

[BuggyDClown]

Because going with the Ram Henry mentioned (DDR3) would be a gigantic bottleneck. Video Cards use a different type of Ram (currently GDDR5) which is many, many times faster than DDR3 and as you can imagine it is also more expensive and not the "I can get 4 gigs for $90!" variety.

Even the 360 uses ram that is much faster than DDR3 (GDDR3 the predecessor to GDDR5).

This I did not know.

Less annoying to hear of such small amounts of ram being rumored when you understand how it works. Then why have some devs have been asking for more in the next systems if they should know it is unrealistic.

 

[Nirolak]

Which game is that?

Alice: Madness Returns.

 

[guek]

Because going with the Ram Henry mentioned (DDR3) would be a gigantic bottleneck. Video Cards use a different type of Ram (currently GDDR5) which is many, many times faster than DDR3 and as you can imagine it is also more expensive and not the "I can get 4 gigs for $90!" variety.

Even the 360 uses ram that is much faster than DDR3 (GDDR3 the predecessor to GDDR5).

yeah, iirc, nintendo tends to use super fast ram, don't they?

people will see either 512mb or 1gb and think "what the hell! ram is so cheap!" but it's not the same ram you're thinking of.

personally, I'm predicting at least 1gb of ram. I think 2gb would be really impressive though. It would definitely make a statement about their commitment to future proofing.

 

[bgassassin]

This game runs off of Unreal Engine 3:

http://i55.tinypic.com/14nikya.gif

Capcom makes the best hair.

 

[AceBandage]

This I did not know.

Less annoying to hear of such small amounts of ram being rumored when you understand how it works. Then why have some devs have been asking for more in the next systems if they should know it is unrealistic.

Devs (well, Western devs at least) always want more of everything.
More RAM, more speed, more shaders, more more more.
Cost and heat be damned!
And what do they use it for?
A rock solid FPS? The highest resolution possible? A decent and challenging AI?
Hell no.
They use it for cloth physics that no one really notices. Or for random particles and lighting and barely even work.

 

[Nirolak]

You know, this IGN rumor, if their sources are accurate, actually has some very large implications, so I think I'll start a new thread.

When that one eventually dies we'll just update this and go on.

Feel free to continue posting here though.

 

[TekkenMaster]

Because going with the Ram Henry mentioned (DDR3) would be a gigantic bottleneck. Video Cards use a different type of Ram (currently GDDR5) which is many, many times faster than DDR3 and as you can imagine it is also more expensive and not the "I can get 4 gigs for $90!" variety.

Even the 360 uses ram that is much faster than DDR3 (GDDR3 the predecessor to GDDR5).

Thanks for the answer...1 GB makes a lot more sense now.

That said, if MS were to release a new console in 2012, do you really think they would go with only 1 GB?

 

[AceBandage]

Thanks for the answer...1 GB makes a lot more sense now.

That said, if MS were to release a new console in 2012, do you really think they would go with only 1 GB?

Really depends on what angle MS took.
If they took the same approach as with the 360, no they'd go with at least 2GB.
If they took a wiser business approach, probably.

 

[Lonely1]

Thanks for the answer...1 GB makes a lot more sense now.

That said, if MS were to release a new console in 2012, do you really think they would go with only 1 GB?

No, but I don't see a new MS console in 2012 either.

 

[TekkenMaster]

This game (Alice: Madness Returns) runs off of Unreal Engine 3:

Impressive...but I stand by the fact that Epic themselves in their own games/demos never seem to make long hair.

 

[lockload]

RAM is so dirt cheap. There is no reason to blow away the old amounts. 2-4GB should be expected. 4 GB at 1333mhz would be ideal by 2013 and super cheap. I can get 8GB of 1333mhz ram for under 90$ and 4GB for round 40$ so there is no reason why in 2.5 years by late 2013 they can support half of that in the consoles for next to nothing.

Im sorry but put a mass production head on even if a component costs $10 if you are producing 50 million that is half a billion dollars lost, that could be the difference between profitability a year early

 

[antonz]

I think we will see Xbox3 with 2GB ram. Any more than that in the closed environment starts to make little sense. Thats why Crytek saying 8GB was so laughable.

 

[AceBandage]

I think we will see Xbox3 with 2GB ram. Any more than that in the closed environment starts to make little sense. Thats why Crytek saying 8GB was so laughable.

I'll still never get that.
Even on a PC, 8 can be overkill at this point in time.

 

[TekkenMaster]

I think we will see Xbox3 with 2GB ram. Any more than that in the closed environment starts to make little sense. Thats why Crytek saying 8GB was so laughable.

Wait, wasn't it Crytek that demanded 8GB for nextgen consoles? Or was that another developer?

 

[guek]

You know, this IGN rumor, if their sources are accurate, actually has some very large implications, so I think I'll start a new thread.

When that one eventually dies we'll just update this and go on.

Feel free to continue posting here though.

If IGN's ill conceived wii2 prototype actually has specs analogous to the cafe, nintendo's next machine is going to seriously turn some heads.

I'm not talking about multiplatform comparisons, or even third party games. If nintendo demos mario, zelda, metroid, f-zero, pikmin, etc using a gpu comparable to a 4850 that's been optimized for consoles, people are going to notice because gamers have been clamoring for HD nintendo games for a long time. We've yet to see nintendo's fantastic art direction in an HD setting. It's going to wow.

 

[linko9]

Wait, wasn't it Crytek that demanded 8GB for nextgen consoles? Or was that another developer?

Yup, and they're going to be disappointed.

 

[TekkenMaster]

If IGN's ill conceived wii2 prototype actually has specs analogous to the cafe, nintendo's next machine is going to seriously turn some heads.

I'm not talking about multiplatform comparisons, or even third party games. If nintendo demos mario, zelda, metroid, f-zero, pikmin, etc using a gpu comparable to a 4850 that's been optimized for consoles, people are going to notice because gamers have been clamoring for HD nintendo games for a long time. We've yet to see nintendo's fantastic art direction in an HD setting. It's going to wow.

Yep!

I hope the EAD teams have been reading up on HD programming (shaders, etc) however.

 

[AceBandage]

Haven't they spent like a billion dollars over the past few years?
That certainly wasn't money used on the Wii.
It was likely training for staff on how to use something that isn't TEV.

 

[Nirolak]

If IGN's ill conceived wii2 prototype actually has specs analogous to the cafe, nintendo's next machine is going to seriously turn some heads.

I'm not talking about multiplatform comparisons, or even third party games. If nintendo demos mario, zelda, metroid, f-zero, pikmin, etc using a gpu comparable to a 4850 that's been optimized for consoles, people are going to notice because gamers have been clamoring for HD nintendo games for a long time. We've yet to see nintendo's fantastic art direction in an HD setting. It's going to wow.

Yeah, I actually removed the list from the post itself and just went with the CPU and GPU speed information, since those kind of clocks rule out a lot of the R700 line-up.

 

[bgassassin]

If IGN's ill conceived wii2 prototype actually has specs analogous to the cafe, nintendo's next machine is going to seriously turn some heads.

This is why I'm not bothered by what IGN did. Obviously we know that method is not conducive to an actual console environment, but that level of tech in a console will be very nice.

 

[BuggyDClown]

Okay so now this needs to be asked.

I was just told I was wrong about the ram and they don't use DDR3 ram, yet IGN built what is being rumored and they have 1GB DDR3 ram. So wtf? Couldn't be more confused.

 

[AceBandage]

Okay so now this needs to be asked.

I was just told I was wrong about the ram and they don't use DDR3 ram, yet IGN built what is being rumored and they have 1GB DDR3 ram. So wtf? Couldn't be more confused.

Because, like I said before, that video is fucking awful for conveying what we can expect.
They make it seem like it'll be a minor increase, when it'll be significantly more than that based on the specs they've given us.

 

[Jin34]

Okay so now this needs to be asked.

I was just told I was wrong about the ram and they don't use DDR3 ram, yet IGN built what is being rumored and they have 1GB DDR3 ram. So wtf? Couldn't be more confused.

Look at the ram on the graphic card, that is the one that matters when talking video game consoles.

 

[shadyspace]

Looooving this hype roller coaster. People are or by the hour.

 

[ReyVGM]

Yep!

I hope the EAD teams have been reading up on HD programming (shaders, etc) however.

Not saying that they don't know how to harness the HD power, but they'll certainly won't.

Look at their 3DS games. Konami and Capcom are already leagues ahead of them.

 

[AceBandage]

Looooving this hype roller coaster. People are or by the hour.

New Nintendo hardware always makes me happy. Regardless of the outcome.
It's just so fun to watch Nintendo experiment.

Not saying that they don't know how to harness the HD power, but they'll certainly won't.

Look at their 3DS games. Konami and Capcom are already leagues ahead of them.

To be fair, we haven't really seen anything significant from Nintendo's main studios.
StarFox and Zelda were both outsourced, Steel Driver as well plus it was a DS game.
I think we need to wait to see Super Mario before we can judge.

 

[shadyspace]

New Nintendo hardware always makes me happy. Regardless of the outcome.
It's just so fun to watch Nintendo experiment.

Yep. I've been :O this whole time.

 

[ReyVGM]

To be fair, we haven't really seen anything significant from Nintendo's main studios.
StarFox and Zelda were both outsourced, Steel Driver as well plus it was a DS game.
I think we need to wait to see Super Mario before we can judge.

But we saw Super Mario and it looks like Galaxy (which is still great). But look at what Capcom did with both Resident Evils on the 3DS. If you didn't know better, you could confuse them with a 360 game.

 

[AceBandage]

Eh, we've seen a few blurry off screen shots of a projection of Super Mario.
Hardly fair to judge what it'll look like.

 

[ReyVGM]

Eh, we've seen a few blurry off screen shots of a projection of Super Mario.
Hardly fair to judge what it'll look like.

Even better. The less detail a screen has (due to blurriness or offscreen footage), the more our brain fills in the details. Still, nothing on the 3DS looks like Resident Evil Revelations.

I hope this E3 Nintendo doesn't show demos of their games only, since they'll probably be "conservative", graphically speaking. I want 3rd parties to show their dudebro games with explosive eye popping graphics. Not for me since I'm not a graphic prostitute, but for the dudebros that like to talk about specs as if they were an extension of their penii. Those are the ones that convince their other dudes and bros to check the system out.

 

[lockload]

So is everyone pretty much decided the screens on the controllers was false?

As all of that requires cpu/gpu resources to render in addition to the tv

 

[AceBandage]

So is everyone pretty much decided the screens on the controllers was false?

As all of that required cpu/gpu resources to render in addition to the tv

The screen in the controller is pretty much the only rumor that's consistent across the board. And, depending on what they're displaying on it, it really wouldn't take up a lot of processing power. They'd be low resolution screens.

 

[The M.O.B]

So is everyone pretty much decided the screens on the controllers was false?

As all of that requires cpu/gpu resources to render in addition to the tv

?What, of course there is the screen on the controller, that is the only rumor that every source matched up with.

EDIT: What Ace said above .

 

[lockload]

The screen in the controller is pretty much the only rumor that's consistent across the board. And, depending on what they're displaying on it, it really wouldn't take up a lot of processing power. They'd be low resolution screens.

From what ign were showing i think that overhead would negate any advantage over the current consoles

 

[AceBandage]

From what ign were showing i think that overhead would negate any advantage over the current consoles

Uh, what?
First of all, IGN's comparison is complete shit. They're trying to run console specs on an open platform PC running a lot of overhead and a bloated OS.
Second of all, again, the amount of processing power it would take to render an image on a low resolution screen in not that great.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Yea. You really can't get a good idea of how powerful the console will be based off that. There are so many more variables when dealing with a console compared to a PC.

 

[Kevin]

IGN's just looking for hits. It's nothing new! Most people that read IGN won't realize that a console works much differently then a PC with similar specs. Still Wii 2 could be a pretty neat system. Guess we'll find out at E3.

 

[bgassassin]

New Nintendo hardware always makes me happy. Regardless of the outcome.
It's just so fun to watch Nintendo experiment..

This is how I am as well. I had pretty much stopped posting on all messageboards (game and basketball) and this news brought me back, although I need to get back to not posting, lol. I haven't been able to participate in console buying in awhile, but I would try to keep up well enough to have an idea of what's going on. But it's times like this that I get the most involved.

 

[Chuck Norris]

Uh, what?
First of all, IGN's comparison is complete shit. They're trying to run console specs on an open platform PC running a lot of overhead and a bloated OS.
Second of all, again, the amount of processing power it would take to render an image on a low resolution screen in not that great.

Seems quite intensive on PS3 with PSP. Though PS3 wasn't made with streaming in mind

I think he may have apoint when Cafe will need overhead for four streaming devices at least

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Xbox720 and PS4 could then conceivably have more powerful CPUs and more RAM than Cafe, but perhaps a very similarly-powered GPU.

Assuming 720 and PS4 release in December 2013, how much more powerful overall would they likely be compared to Cafe?

30-40% Assuming that they and the Cafe both aim at a 150w tdp, and the silicon in the PS420 manages to be one shrink smaller than the Cafe.

 

[ShineALight]

What are the chances that this system could handle Wii games the same way that Dolphin could? We have a few negligible pieces of evidence suggesting that it might (high resolution assets in first-party Nintendo games, namely), but I understand that it's somewhat of a longshot. And that it's purely speculation, no one here can know for sure. But maybe someone could have some level of insight into it. Would it be completely implausible? Or is there at least a fleeting chance that Wii games on Cafe could look as great as they do in Dolphin?

I love the look of games like Other M or Xenoblade in HD. It suggests some generation of console inbetween Wii and 360 that we never really saw.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Speaking of Cafe, does this mean the Smash in Cafe would not be headed by Sakurai and yet developed by HAL?

 

[Hero of Legend]

Speaking of Cafe, does this mean the Smash in Cafe would not be headed by Sakurai and yet developed by HAL?

As much as I'd love that, what makes you suggest that?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

If they're planning an early launch next year, it'll likely be playable on the floor.
Otherwise, it might not be.
Either way, we should get lots of good stuff.

This makes me wonder: what's the longest before launch something has been widely playable at such an event? Only N64 comes to mind that I can definitely remember being more than 6 months (November '95 Spaceworld -> June '96 Japan launch), but it's not like I've got the prerelease history of all consoles memorized.

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't say it was playable at E3 if they didn't plan on letting people play it.

I don't think that statement on its own is enough to say so. I'd believe it meant as a stage demonstration only, as opposed to the way non-playable Revolution hardware was at E3 2005 in the form of Iwata showing us a dinky box.

Alt+0233 (on the numpad, not the number row).

é

I use Alt+130.

I feel like I'm about to ask a totally nub question, oh well here it goes:

Why do you think Nintendo will likely go with an AMD processor? My understanding is that the i series is far superior.

It's no guarantee of anything, but if they've already got a relationship with AMD through ATI from the last two generations, it could be simpler to expand on that than go with a new company.

Because going with the Ram Henry mentioned (DDR3) would be a gigantic bottleneck. Video Cards use a different type of Ram (currently GDDR5) which is many, many times faster than DDR3 and as you can imagine it is also more expensive and not the "I can get 4 gigs for $90!" variety.

Plus Nintendo, since the N64 debacle, they seem to prefer faster RAM, even than what the competitors use.

GCN/Wii used both a chunk of faster RAM, and a chunk of cheaper RAM.

 

[brochiller]

I don't think that statement on its own is enough to say so. I'd believe it meant as a stage demonstration only, as opposed to the way non-playable Revolution hardware was at E3 2005 in the form of Iwata showing us a dinky box.

I'm going to link you to this article again.

http://kotaku.com/5795447/nintendos-new-console-playable-by-everyone-at-e3

 

[watershed]

I posted this in the IGN cafe thread but its more appropriate for this main cafe thread:

Someone made quite an interesting point about the potential relative power of the cafe compared to the PS3/360. In terms of multi-plat games the cafe could offer definitive versions in terms of a consistent 30/60 fps and true hd resolution of 1080p. But most "hardcore" gamers are actually "dudebro" gamers who don't care/can't tell that the shooters they know and love aren't actually hd or are full of the technical glitches typical of this gen. Only tech gamers, people who post on gaf judging consoles based on cpus, gpus, ram etc will be interested or compelled to buy the cafe because of its tech advantage. I suspect dudebros way outnumber tech gamers by a wide margin.

Ultimately (as is always the case) its gonna be the software not the hardware that will determine whether the cafe can draw in the dudebro crowd. But the question is, what about the cafe version of multi-plat games will draw people to buy it over the version for the consoles they already own? Obviously Nintendo 1st party games will always be the draw for a lot of gamers, but all the "dudebro" gamers I know are instinctively allergic to Nintendo games. I know we've had this discussion a hundred times in the various cafe threads but I'm suddenly interested again in how Nintendo will draw in the "hardcore gamer" crowd.

My take is that Nintendo thinks better/equal graphics and a more competent online system will be enough. I suspect Nintendo will continue to focus on their crowd, longtime fans and casuals, and just hope for a better spread of 3rd party games on the side.

 

[radioheadrule83]

My take is that Nintendo thinks better/equal graphics and a more competent online system will be enough.

If that is what they think, they're right though aren't they? Its not what the dudebro customer knows about the capability of the system, its what developers know: the people who make games for those dudebro customers. They want a system to have those things, certainly.

They also like money, sacks of money. So they'll either want Nintendo to encourage an eco-system in which their games do well, or they'll want moneyhats. Probably a bit of both.

 

[dwu8991]

Just watched the Samaritan demo for the first time.

I'm unimpressed...just more greys and browns with better lighting.

I want to see what something with the art style of Metroid Prime or Mirror's Edge would look like with that kind of power behind it.

Also, I can see Epic STILL can't handle long hair. If they could they would've shown it off.

The demo was very good as a cg or realtime equilivant movie but nothing that really wowed me or I haven't seen before.