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[watershed]

If that is what they think, they're right though aren't they? Its not what the dudebro customer knows about the capability of the system, its what developers know: the people who make games for those dudebro customers. They want a system to have those things, certainly.

They also like money, sacks of money. So they'll either want Nintendo to encourage an eco-system in which their games do well, or they'll want moneyhats. Probably a bit of both.

I think graphically the cafe will be enough to impress or at least satisfy everyone but pc gamers for the next 2 years or so. How the cafe looks in comparison to Sony and Microsoft's next consoles is anyone's guess though the answer to that question is important to the potential longevity of the cafe among the dudebro crowd.

What I'm interested in is whether the better graphics and competent online will be enough to draw in "hardcore" or "dudebro" gamers. Personally I don't think it will be because multi-plats will also be available for the console they already own, 360 or ps3. I think Nintendo would either need 3rd party exclusives, via money hats or exclusive content for 3rd party games.

But again my position is that Nintendo won't go full tilt for the "dudebro" market, they'll just want to get more 3rd party games from that area than they did for the wii which is pretty much assured already.

 

[From The Dust]

The demo was very good as a cg or realtime equilivant movie but nothing that really wowed me or I haven't seen before.

the grass scene in that CryEngine video was more pleasing to my eyes. but that's a case of art over tech

 

[apana]

So Samaritan demo was just a movie? How would it look if you were actually playing it? If it looks exactly like what was shown in the demo that is incredible. Would love to see a System Shock 2 remake with those graphics, brain would melt from too much joy.

 

[Boss Doggie]

As much as I'd love that, what makes you suggest that?

Didn't he say his last Smash is Brawl?

 

[From The Dust]

So Samaritan demo was just a movie? How would it look if you were actually playing it? If it looks exactly like what was shown in the demo that is incredible. Would love to see a System Shock 2 remake with those graphics, brain would melt from too much joy.

no it was real time. but with 3 580s. down to one in the future though

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

So Samaritan demo was just a movie? How would it look if you were actually playing it? If it looks exactly like what was shown in the demo that is incredible. Would love to see a System Shock 2 remake with those graphics, brain would melt from too much joy.

It was being rendered live, but it was a scripted scene. The point of the demo was to show what was possible on ultra high end rigs if you pushed the tech.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Didn't he say his last Smash is Brawl?

No, he didn't.

 

[Hiltz]

I think Iwata is going to have a hard time convincing Sakurai to make another Smash Bros. game. Sakurai has grown tired of making sequels which is why he chose to leave Hal Labs and work on more original IPs.

Iwata and Nintendo kind of pressured him to make Brawl. Iwata said that he had thought about what to do if Sakurai would decline the offer to make Brawl. However, Iwata said that he would still basically need Sakurai's help anyway. Sakurai came down to the decision that "there were no other jobs with the potential that I could get people to be as happy as the Smash Bros. project. After all, it was already clear that lots of people were looking forward to it. So, I decided to accept the project. Or, accepted that I had no choice but to take it."

 

[guek]

I posted this in the IGN cafe thread but its more appropriate for this main cafe thread:

Someone made quite an interesting point about the potential relative power of the cafe compared to the PS3/360. In terms of multi-plat games the cafe could offer definitive versions in terms of a consistent 30/60 fps and true hd resolution of 1080p. But most "hardcore" gamers are actually "dudebro" gamers who don't care/can't tell that the shooters they know and love aren't actually hd or are full of the technical glitches typical of this gen. Only tech gamers, people who post on gaf judging consoles based on cpus, gpus, ram etc will be interested or compelled to buy the cafe because of its tech advantage. I suspect dudebros way outnumber tech gamers by a wide margin.

Ultimately (as is always the case) its gonna be the software not the hardware that will determine whether the cafe can draw in the dudebro crowd. But the question is, what about the cafe version of multi-plat games will draw people to buy it over the version for the consoles they already own? Obviously Nintendo 1st party games will always be the draw for a lot of gamers, but all the "dudebro" gamers I know are instinctively allergic to Nintendo games. I know we've had this discussion a hundred times in the various cafe threads but I'm suddenly interested again in how Nintendo will draw in the "hardcore gamer" crowd.

My take is that Nintendo thinks better/equal graphics and a more competent online system will be enough. I suspect Nintendo will continue to focus on their crowd, longtime fans and casuals, and just hope for a better spread of 3rd party games on the side.

It kind of comes down to a "if you build it, they will come" reality. I don't think nintendo expects droves of the dudebro crowd to get in on the cafe on day one. But consider what would have happened if nintendo had had the exact same success with the expanded audience with the wii but also had the power and online infrastructure to support multiplatform games?

The wii would have been the greatest system of all time (of all time!) There were droves of hardcore gamers that ended up with Wiis because it was so cheap, wii sports was novel and fun, or because they wanted dem nintendo games. A lot of those same gamers ended up moving on to HD platforms because that was where the games they wanted were. But if nintendo had been able to have multiplatform games from the get go? So many of those gamers would have just stick with the wii because, hey, they have one already!

If nintendo can corner the expanded audience just like they did with the wii while garnering major 3rd party efforts, the cafe will be legendary.

But that's a big if on both accounts.

 

[maeda]

It kind of comes down to a "if you build it, they will come" reality. I don't think nintendo expects droves of the dudebro crowd to get in on the cafe on day one. But consider what would have happened if nintendo had had the exact same success with the expanded audience with the wii but also had the power and online infrastructure to support multiplatform games?

The wii would have been the greatest system of all time (of all time!) There were droves of hardcore gamers that ended up with Wiis because it was so cheap, wii sports was novel and fun, or because they wanted dem nintendo games. A lot of those same gamers ended up moving on to HD platforms because that was where the games they wanted were. But if nintendo had been able to have multiplatform games from the get go? So many of those gamers would have just stick with the wii because, hey, they have one already!

If nintendo can corner the expanded audience just like they did with the wii while garnering major 3rd party efforts, the cafe will be legendary.

But that's a big if on both accounts.

Basically it will be what GameCube should have been.

 

[antonz]

What Nintendo needs to do is bribe a few Major 3rd party releases around its launch window to be timed exclusives. Even if it means spending 500 million dollars for 2-3 titles exclusive for 3-6 months.

Get major enough titles on a timed period and besides the initial rush of the hardcore to buy the console as always you will appeal to the less inclined hardcore.

Nintendo needs to get people excited early on and provide an online solution that is solid enough that people will continue to buy the 3rd party games on the Cafe because why not it plays better and online experience is good.

 

[watershed]

Nintendo definitely needs to get consumers interested right out the gate. No more of this soft launch crap like the 3ds. Holding back games to let crappy 3rd party efforts "shine by comparison" is not how you successfully launch a system. Money hats, timed exclusives, exclusive games, content, 3rd party anthologies, 1st party top shelf quality, whatever it takes, the cafe needs momentum right out the gate. No missing features at launch bull either. Do it right Nintendo or watch the cafe repeat the 3ds's first 2 months.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

The main point to consider is that all Nintendo really has to do is get the consoles into peoples' homes. That was the problem with the Wii - everyone has one, but dudebros dont touch it because there is nothing on it they want. If the Cafe is like the Wii at all, all nintendo needs is for it to be a Trojan - say, via casual gamers, at which point the system will endear itself to the more core type of player (provided it is home ro games they DO want.)

 

[Elixist]

Nintendo definitely needs to get consumers interested right out the gate. No more of this soft launch crap like the 3ds. Holding back games to let crappy 3rd party efforts "shine by comparison" is not how you successfully launch a system. Money hats, timed exclusives, exclusive games, content, 3rd party anthologies, 1st party top shelf quality, whatever it takes, the cafe needs momentum right out the gate. No missing features at launch bull either. Do it right Nintendo or watch the cafe repeat the 3ds's first 2 months.

most def good post. I really hope Ninty stuns with their lineup right out of the gate and I also pray that they come up with sum fresh ip.

Something like Wave Race , Mario 128 , and new Wii sportish title. I also think it would be smart of them to provide like 10 dollars in points for everybody.

Get them on your e-store and get them familiar with how to use it without any risk. Then have some of your teams crank out some high quality small games.

I'd really like to see what Ninty could do in the space and maybe thats where some fresh ip from them comes in finally.

 

[luffeN]

I posted this in the IGN cafe thread but its more appropriate for this main cafe thread:

Someone made quite an interesting point about the potential relative power of the cafe compared to the PS3/360. In terms of multi-plat games the cafe could offer definitive versions in terms of a consistent 30/60 fps and true hd resolution of 1080p.

-snip-

The hardware can probably offer that. But will developers and publishers go for this supposed extra power and eventually spend more money "just" to have these extra features?

 

[watershed]

most def good post. I really hope Ninty stuns with their lineup right out of the gate and I also pray that they come up with sum fresh ip.

Something like Wave Race , Mario 128 , and new Wii sportish title. I also think it would be smart of them to provide like 10 dollars in points for everybody.

Get them on your e-store and get them familiar with how to use it without any risk. Then have some of your teams crank out some high quality small games.

I'd really like to see what Ninty could do in the space and maybe thats where some fresh ip from them comes in finally.

Yeah I agree with the giving free eshop points at launch. I thought it worked well with the dsi. I made 2 risk free purchases right out the gate. I hope they repeat the same with the 3ds especially given how its been delayed but something tells me Nintendo isn't gonna be so generous this time. They should definitely repeat the practice with the cafe though, especially given how they've struggled with online stuff in the past. Still if the eshop, online channels, or whatever, including netflix aren't available day 1, then what's the point Nintendo?

 

[SneakyStephan]

The hardware can probably offer that. But will developers and publishers go for this supposed extra power and eventually spend more money "just" to have these extra features?

Ehm that's not how it works...

 

[Boss Doggie]

Honestly the thing Nintendo should fight for is "image". They have this "family-friendly" image that somehow dudebros avoid.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Honestly the thing Nintendo should fight for is "image". They have this "family-friendly" image that somehow dudebros avoid.

They pushed for that family-friendly image for the entirety of the Wii's life.

 

[Cipherr]

They have pushed for that family-friendly image for the entirety of the companies life.

.

 

[Alx]

Honestly the thing Nintendo should fight for is "image". They have this "family-friendly" image that somehow dudebros avoid.

But isn't their "family friendly" image the source of their success ? It opens a much bigger market than "dudebros", and one with low competition.

 

[watershed]

Honestly the thing Nintendo should fight for is "image". They have this "family-friendly" image that somehow dudebros avoid.

The way I see it the "family Friendly" image and the software that creates this image is a huge part of how Nintendo has stayed profitable for so long. IIRC this portion of the market is the largest part of their base. All Nintendo needs to do is offer modern features and a similar assortment of 3rd party games that microsoft and sony are getting. I don't think doing this means Nintendo would be changing their image in terms of branding and consumer perception, nor do I think they should. Kids and parents drive Nintendo, they won't abandon the image that makes this possible.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

Honestly the thing Nintendo should fight for is "image". They have this "family-friendly" image that somehow dudebros avoid.

I think all they need are some 3rd party titles just just aren't possible on the PS360 technically. If the console is truly more powerful than both of them, pony up and get exclusive software out there that the dudebros won't be able to ignore.

 

[Cipherr]

I think all they need are some 3rd party titles just just aren't possible on the PS360 technically. If the console is truly more powerful than both of them, pony up and get exclusive software out there that the dudebros won't be able to ignore.

Heh. Outside if large missteps by MS and Sony simultaneously, I dont think it can happen. The silly "matoor" and "kiddy" nonsense is so entrenched by now that I think a gen could have all 3 consoles at even footing on every level from online, to licensing fees, to media capabilities to horsepower and the true attention of both third parties and this audience would lean towards any of the 3 not named Nintendo.

 

[Screenboy]

Is it wrong that I want Retro to make another Metroid for Café rather than Zelda?

 

[Log4Girlz]

Is it wrong that I want Retro to make another Metroid for Café rather than Zelda?

Nah. I think Metroid Prime was such a shock everyone assumes everything they touch will be amazing. If they went back to Metroid, well we know they've got that IP down pat, but no one can be sure how they'll handle a Zelda. They just HOPE it turns out as well as what they did with Prime.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I'm going to link you to this article again.

http://kotaku.com/5795447/nintendos-new-console-playable-by-everyone-at-e3

I'm saying the original statement wasn't enough, which is why clarifications such as that article are necessary rather than superfluous.

 

[swerve]

The silly "matoor" and "kiddy" nonsense is so entrenched by now that I think a gen could have all 3 consoles at even footing on every level from online, to licensing fees, to media capabilities to horsepower and the true attention of both third parties and this audience would lean towards any of the 3 not named Nintendo.

Depends on the development tools and if the Nintendo option offers something which developers, rather than consumers, want to play around with. The image issue wouldn't be a problem as soon as one company made a successful, fun, impressive 'matoor' title.

 

[CaVaYeRo]

Just wanted to know one thing.

A Project Cafe header has been found on Nintendo's developer support website by Kard8p3: https://www.warioworld.com/images/cafe/cafe_header.jpg

In case it gets taken down, it is archived here:

Was this totally reliable? Because it's the only "official" mention of that name... And I guess he got that pic by logging in, right?

And why is the text unaligned with the other headers found on that site? And why does it have a background image? Do other system headers look like that?

If this wasn't true, then I bet the whole Cafe thing is a lie. Although I really like the codename.

 

[Nirolak]

Just wanted to know one thing.



Was this totally reliable? Because it's the only "official" mention of that name... And I guess he got that pic by logging in, right?

And why is the text unaligned with the other headers found on that site? And why does it have a background image? Do other system headers look like that?

If this wasn't true, then I bet the whole Cafe thing is a lie. Although I really like the codename.

These were taken off of Nintendo's developer website by digging through the urls.

The site has pretty bad standards of web design since it's only meant for developer documentation instead of being consumer focused.

We had a lot of people doing the digging including myself, so I can verify they really used to be there.

 

[[Nintex]]

These were taken off of Nintendo's developer website by digging through the urls.

The site has pretty bad standards of web design since it's only meant for developer documentation instead of being consumer focused.

We had a lot of people doing the digging including myself, so I can verify they really used to be there.

Someone told me that Cafe was the name of the support forum on Nintendo's Wario World site. He was unable to show evidence but I believed him.

 

[CaVaYeRo]

These were taken off of Nintendo's developer website by digging through the urls.

The site has pretty bad standards of web design since it's only meant for developer documentation instead of being consumer focused.

We had a lot of people doing the digging including myself, so I can verify they really used to be there.

Ok, it was just weird and on a https page. But if you found it there, awesome.

 

[TunaLover]

Is it wrong that I want Retro to make another Metroid for Café rather than Zelda?

No, Metroid artstyle fits better to a western developer, aside Retro made a superb job with the franchise. But Zelda is a more delicate matter, it could look strange if a western developer handle the artstyle for example as they always shot for more realistic look instead of a fantasia look.

 

[E-phonk]

I have been thinking about something, I don't think it's going to happen, but it might be an interesting strategy.

Would nintendo be able to keep supporting Wii, by making SD versions of their next-gen "WII" title games? Or to put it otherwise: by keeping the WII name just for the family line/motion software. Sony was very succesfull in keeping the PS2 alive to the singstar/lowbudget crowd

It would be a way to keep the Wii alive for a little longer as a 99$ console, otherwise the platform is dead in 2012 as I don't see nintendo spreading it's devteams between Wii and the Cafe platform, nor will 3rd party developers release anything worthwhile.
So in short: by developing both SD en HD versions of some WII _________ title, they could keep the support for Wii games somewhat alive.

 

[Akai]

No, Metroid artstyle fits better to a western developer, aside Retro made a superb job with the franchise. But Zelda is a more delicate matter, it could look strange if a western developer handle the artstyle for example as they always shot for more realistic look instead of a fantasia look.

Donkey Kong Country Returns? I'm sure Retro could easily handle any art direction they so choose...

 

[Neo Child]

I think Retro make amazing games, whether its Metroid or Donkey Kong, I think giving them Zelda would be fantastic, something really different.

 

[TunaLover]

Donkey Kong Country Returns? I'm sure Retro could easily handle any art direction they so choose...

I'm sure too, but Zelda is titanic, I remember that Nintendo keeps a "book" with documents about the way the elements, enemies, items, NPCs, world, should be portrayed. It just my my humble opinion anyway, I'm little biased for japanese artsyle too (formost for a Zelda title), if that counts =P

 

[Olaeh]

Would nintendo be able to keep supporting Wii, by making SD versions of their next-gen "WII" title games?

Neat idea, but I think they want as many people to buy Cafe as possible, rather than have them hold off on Wii. If people can still play most new Nintendo games on Wii still, I think a decent amount of people will just hold out for a Cafe price drop.
It would steal away some of Cafe's thunder I think.

 

[Futureman]

I'm going to link you to this article again.

http://kotaku.com/5795447/nintendos-new-console-playable-by-everyone-at-e3

The first replay on that article says that Skyward Sword was delayed to work on the graphics according to Miyamoto. Is that true?

 

[radcliff]

The first replay on that article says that Skyward Sword was delayed to work on the graphics according to Miyamoto. Is that true?

Back when the game was first unveiled at last year's E3, Aonuma said the game probably would have been ready for a 2010 release but Miyamoto wanted to change the graphics to a more expressive style because he wanted to make the enemies more exaggerated so it would be easier for the player to interpret their stance/guard and attack accordingly. It has nothing to do with delaying the game for the Cafe.

 

[ombz]

Just wanted to know one thing.



Was this totally reliable? Because it's the only "official" mention of that name... And I guess he got that pic by logging in, right?

And why is the text unaligned with the other headers found on that site? And why does it have a background image? Do other system headers look like that?

If this wasn't true, then I bet the whole Cafe thing is a lie. Although I really like the codename.

I also saw the image while it was still visible on Nintendo's developer site. If it's fake (which it isn't) someone inside Nintendo would have had to create it.

 

[leadbelly]

The demo was very good as a cg or realtime equilivant movie but nothing that really wowed me or I haven't seen before.

...

What do you mean? The demo is meant to be representative of next gen graphics. You haven't seen that level of detail and/or real-time effects in a game before.

Epic's art style has never really been the 'prettiest' but it's not really about the art style it is about the tech behind it.

 

[dude]

I think taking away some of the more "Japanese" elements of Zelda would actually do a lot of good to the series. I would be interested in a Retro Zelda (pun intended?), but I doubt that's actually going to happen...

 

[leadbelly]

I think taking away some of the more "Japanese" elements of Zelda would actually do a lot of good to the series. I would be interested in a Retro Zelda (pun intended?), but I doubt that's actually going to happen...

I'm thinking Nintendo would still have to have an awful lot of involvement in it. I'm not sure Retro has the same amount of imagination and creativity as Nintendo has to do a Zelda game.

I should say: to do a Zelda as good as what Nintendo could do.

 

[Black-Wind]

I think taking away some of the more "Japanese" elements of Zelda would actually do a lot of good to the series. I would be interested in a Retro Zelda (pun intended?), but I doubt that's actually going to happen...

I agree.

If theres any current big Nintendo IP that I think could use some retro love its LoZ given that it has turned into a "Western geared" series.

Would prefer a Sheik action game spin-off though.

 

[radioheadrule83]

Everyone expects that Retro would make this super epic, realistic-fantasy-Zelda or something, but when I look at Metroid Prime - I see a game that visually, brought Super Metroid to life in first person, then expanded on it, and became something new and awesome in its own right. When I look at Donkey Kong Country Returns I can see clearly, that Retro understood and respected what made DKC fun, and that they understood the franchise history...

...So if Retro were to ever do a Zelda, I would actually hope that they do something completely unexpected, but informed a lot by the better games in the series - A Link to the Past, Link's Awakening, Ocarina, Majora... hell, even aspects of Wind Waker. I am glad to say, I don't think they'd make the lame Lord of the Rings Lite type game that some people want.

 

[Dr.Palutena]

i'd rather see retro tackle star fox am i alone .

 

[leadbelly]

I actually haven't played Twilight Princess. I'm not sure if it's good or bad. I know a lot of people have mixed feelings on the game.

The last Zelda game I played was Wind Waker. Speaking in pure game design terms, I think that game is an absolute master-class in game design. I'd be amazed if Retro could make a Zelda game at that level of quality.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

I actually haven't played Twilight Princess. I'm not sure if it's good or bad. I know a lot of people have mixed feelings on the game.

The last Zelda game I played was Wind Waker. Speaking in pure game design terms, I think that game is an absolute master-class in game design. I'd be amazed if Retro could make a Zelda game at that level of quality.

It's a fantastic title. Awesome dungeon design and visuals for the time.

I've never understood the hate for it, honestly, especially from those who adore Ocarina. I don't know if it's fair to the game to say this but it comes off as Ocarina on steroids.

I really think the game should be taken away from Aonuma and given to EAD Tokyo, though. Of course I think every game should be given to EAD Tokyo.

 

[DECK'ARD]

i'd rather see retro tackle star fox am i alone .

Treasure should do Star Fox in my opinion.

I'd like to see Retro do something original, the move to HD should mean the birth of some new IP's. And they are one of the best teams to take advantage of that without the restrictions of what people expect from an existing franchise.