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Putin critic who fled to Ukraine shot dead in Kiev

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Resident_UA

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Are you trying to tie Syria into your random ramblings? Russia could always take refugees from Syria as well. This isn't somehow strictly European problem. Also Hungary is one of the most hard right countries in Europe and somehow they are unsurprisingly more pro-Russian than the rest of EU.

And none of this explains why you thought that Ukrainian president was a neonazi. I'm not even sure why you think that bunch of unrelated opinions would clarify your views.
 

petran79

Banned
Sep 17, 2012
10,395
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Are you trying to tie Syria into your random ramblings? Russia could always take refugees from Syria as well. This isn't somehow strictly European problem. Also Hungary is one of the most hard right countries in Europe and somehow they are unsurprisingly more pro-Russian than the rest of EU.

And none of this explains why you thought that Ukrainian president was a neonazi. I'm not even sure why you think that bunch of unrelated opinions would clarify your views.


If so, just peruse below. Not Russia Today, because many foam even by hearing the name. It accuses Russia too.

Any president that takes part in this shares the blame. Not counting previous years.

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2016/country-chapters/ukraine

As of fall 2015, more than 9,000 people had been killed and over 20,000 wounded in the conflict. By September, an estimated 1.4 million people were internally displaced in Ukraine and more than 600,000 had fled abroad, mainly to Russia.


Although the September ceasefire largely held, sporadic fighting continued. Both sides violated the laws of war. They committed indiscriminate attacks that injured and killed civilians, including through the use of cluster munitions. Government forces and Russia-backed rebels deployed within or near densely populated areas, endangering civilians and civilian objects, including schools, hospitals, and apartment buildings. There was significant evidence that several types of antipersonnel landmines have been used in eastern Ukraine, although at time of writing it was not possible to determine the responsible party or parties.

Both rebel and government forces were implicated in credible reports of torture and cruel and degrading treatment of detainees.

Thousands of civilians remain in rebel-held areas of Donetsk and Luhansk regions. Travel restrictions, introduced by the Ukrainian government in January 2015, severely impede the ability of civilians in rebel-controlled areas to reach safety and access life-saving services available in Ukraine-controlled territory. The restrictions also impede the delivery of humanitarian aid, causing a severe shortage of medicine and medical supplies in rebel-held areas. The resulting health crisis is having a devastating effect on some of the most vulnerable groups of patients, in particular those receiving treatment for tuberculosis, HIV, and drug dependence.

No significant progress has been achieved in accountability for perpetrators of abuses during the 2014 Maidan protests, in which more than 100 protesters and 13 law enforcement officers died and many were injured. In its March report, the Council of Europe’s International Advisory Panel criticized the slow progress and poor quality of the investigation, noting a “widespread perception of impunity” on part of law enforcement agencies.

Among positive steps, in December the authorities established a Special Investigation Division within the Prosecutor General’s Office tasked specifically with Maidan-related investigations. The prosecutor’s office claimed that it had identified all senior government officials who took part in decision-making during Maidan events, but at time of writing, it was unclear whether any had been charged. Authorities detained several riot police officers suspected of killing protesters from February 18 to 20, 2014. At time of writing, the trial of two of the officers remain ongoing. Many of the alleged perpetrators have reportedly left Ukraine.
........................................................................................................
At least eight people remain missing in connection to the Maidan events.


That's the 4th non sequitur in a row.

I would be worried if I posted a sequitur and you agreed with me....
 

Resident_UA

Member
Dec 16, 2008
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790
If so, just peruse below. Not Russia Today, because many foam even by hearing the name. It accuses Russia too.

Any president that takes part in this shares the blame. Not counting previous years.

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2016/country-chapters/ukraine

This is like 5th unrelated thing that you brought up. What does any of this has to do with Poroshenko being or not being neonazi?! In fact this has nothing to do with anyone being neonazi. These are just random ramblings. Sure, he is a shitty president, hasn't fought corruption, and has no good plan fighting Russia that wouldn't endanger Ukrainians. So how is this related to him being neonazi (described as "racism, ableism, xenophobia, homophobia, antiziganism, antisemitism, and initiating the Fourth Reich. Holocaust denial is a common feature, as is incorporation of Nazi symbols and admiration of Adolf Hitler")

I don't understand what you are trying to say or what you are deflecting. It seems you are here to post a bunch or unrelated Russian propaganda.
 
Sep 12, 2013
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Putin is a pure Mafioso piece of shit. The fact that our president and his administration are captive to them is a fucking travesty.
 

Akainu

Member
Sep 18, 2009
13,242
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Now I'm no geomatician. But isn't that like running to to an abandoned house next door to escape a monster?
 

petran79

Banned
Sep 17, 2012
10,395
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This is like 5th unrelated thing that you brought up. What does any of this has to do with Poroshenko being or not being neonazi?! In fact this has nothing to do with anyone being neonazi. These are just random ramblings. Sure, he is a shitty president, hasn't fought corruption, and has no good plan fighting Russia that wouldn't endanger Ukrainians. So how is this related to him being neonazi (described as "racism, ableism, xenophobia, homophobia, antiziganism, antisemitism, and initiating the Fourth Reich. Holocaust denial is a common feature, as is incorporation of Nazi symbols and admiration of Adolf Hitler")

I don't understand what you are trying to say or what you are deflecting. It seems you are here to post a bunch or unrelated Russian propaganda.

Then what does it make him?

Read the link I posted for human right violations, including those traits.
If you look at current Ukraine, you'll see a lot of those things you mentioned. Members of current government staff are not saints either, having ties to extreme right groups. Germany knows. EU knows. Western media know. Everyone knows.

Also I never labelled your arguments as unrelated or apologetic, despite disagreeing.
Thread reached its course I think. There will be another opportunity for discussion (unfortunately).

Lets PM if you want to continue
 

StonedRider

Member
Jan 9, 2015
406
216
470
Riga, Latvia
Far from Putin fan here, but really, let's wait for some proves. You blame Putin by default and forget Ukraine is really close to anarchy now. After blockades of uncontrolled territories ultra rights know they can dictate their will to government and government can not do anything about it because of fear of another revolution. There are so many militaristic groups and weapons because of war. It is high probability of provocation from any of this groups or organized crime traces.

Remember, we are talking about country where fistfights in parliament is common, sadly. Country with so many historical discrepancies between its parts, it is hard to predict its future.
 

Jackpot

Banned
Nov 8, 2011
11,465
3
0
Then what does it make him?

Read the link I posted for human right violations, including those traits.
If you look at current Ukraine, you'll see a lot of those things you mentioned. Members of current government staff are not saints either, having ties to extreme right groups. Germany knows. EU knows. Western media know. Everyone knows.

Also I never labelled your arguments as unrelated or apologetic, despite disagreeing.
Thread reached its course I think. There will be another opportunity for discussion (unfortunately).

Lets PM if you want to continue

The International Criminal Court authorised an investigation into possible war crimes perpetrated during a conflict between Russia and Georgia. The investigation relates to the conflict in 2008 centred on South Ossetia, a breakaway region of Georgia. The ICC said it has "a reasonable basis to believe" that crimes against humanity and war crimes were committed."


See how random tracts of text contribute nothing^
 

Eric the Red

Member
Oct 29, 2012
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Then, in 2013, Bharara’s office filed a suit to seize the assets of Cyprus-based Prevezon, which allegedly used the stolen Hermitage funds to buy New York real estate. Bharara was fired by Trump last week, but the case is about to go to trial.

Attorney Marc Mukasey is reportedly on the shortlist to replace Bharara, Buzzfeed reports. He’s the son of former US attorney general Michael Mukasey, who represented Prevezon in court last year.

Holy moly. So $230m is defrauded from Russian taxpayers, those funds allegedly made it's way to Cyprus incorporated Prevezon which used it to buy New York real estate. Michael Mukasey represented Prevezon's defense from Preet Bharara's prosecution. And now Trump fired Bharara and wants to appoint Michael Mukasey's SON to replace him. I can't.
 

Resident_UA

Member
Dec 16, 2008
5,091
8
790
Then what does it make him?

Read the link I posted for human right violations, including those traits.
If you look at current Ukraine, you'll see a lot of those things you mentioned. Members of current government staff are not saints either, having ties to extreme right groups. Germany knows. EU knows. Western media know. Everyone knows.

Also I never labelled your arguments as unrelated or apologetic, despite disagreeing.
Thread reached its course I think. There will be another opportunity for discussion (unfortunately).

Lets PM if you want to continue
Continue what? You just posted more random shit that does nothing to prove that anyone is "neonazi". And also accused more people of being "neonazi" without actually knowing who is part of Ukrainian government. You really need to start questioning where your random views that you don't actually know much about come from. :)
 

Resident_UA

Member
Dec 16, 2008
5,091
8
790
Far from Putin fan here, but really, let's wait for some proves. You blame Putin by default and forget Ukraine is really close to anarchy now. After blockades of uncontrolled territories ultra rights know they can dictate their will to government and government can not do anything about it because of fear of another revolution. There are so many militaristic groups and weapons because of war. It is high probability of provocation from any of this groups or organized crime traces.

Remember, we are talking about country where fistfights in parliament is common, sadly. Country with so many historical discrepancies between its parts, it is hard to predict its future.

What the fuck? You can't just make up shit to try to change topic. What anarchy? What ultra rights? You want to know more about Ukraine, try reading! Sure, there are people who try to block trade with Russia controlled territories, and government is sort of shit, but the rest is just made up.

Also there are no "historical discrepancies". That's just Russian propaganda. In fact it's Russian propaganda that only Russians tend to believe in. Are you Russian?


EDIT: Just saw in your other post that you are from Latvia. It's so depressing that you bought into Putin's bullshit... :( I thought Latvians were on our side...
 

petran79

Banned
Sep 17, 2012
10,395
1,793
910
Continue what? You just posted more random shit that does nothing to prove that anyone is "neonazi". And also accused more people of being "neonazi" without actually knowing who is part of Ukrainian government. You really need to start questioning where your random views that you don't actually know much about come from. :)

I talk the same way I would if I met you on the street. Do not expect me to carry tons of books and newspaper articles to prove my point. Unless I was paid as a journalist or academic.
But keep in mind, it was the Russians who taught the Ukranians how to govern. Everything wrong with Russia applies also to Ukraine.
OK. Lets keep it for our next conversation, hopefully when things get better!



The International Criminal Court authorised an investigation into possible war crimes perpetrated during a conflict between Russia and Georgia. The investigation relates to the conflict in 2008 centred on South Ossetia, a breakaway region of Georgia. The ICC said it has "a reasonable basis to believe" that crimes against humanity and war crimes were committed."

See how random tracts of text contribute nothing^

Problem here wasnt the random tracts of text, it was the irony. No way I'd treat a person like that in a real conversation.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Sep 5, 2004
66,964
7
1,590
Arakeen
Far from Putin fan here, but really, let's wait for some proves. You blame Putin by default.

.

I wonder if anyone typed this fifty or so political "accidents" ago? Frankly it would be really weird statistically if this WASNT an assassination.
 

StonedRider

Member
Jan 9, 2015
406
216
470
Riga, Latvia
What the fuck? You can't just make up shit to try to change topic. What anarchy? What ultra rights? You want to know more about Ukraine, try reading! Sure, there are people who try to block trade with Russia controlled territories, and government is sort of shit, but the rest is just made up.

Also there are no "historical discrepancies". That's just Russian propaganda. In fact it's Russian propaganda that only Russians tend to believe in. Are you Russian?


EDIT: Just saw in your other post that you are from Latvia. It's so depressing that you bought into Putin's bullshit... :( I thought Latvians were on our side...


My apologies, I chose wrong word, anarchy definitely was an exaggeration. We here read news (or fake news, who knows) from different sides and do not always understand what to believe in. But I have several friends working and living in Ukraine and they are mostly upset about current situation, especially after this blockade and thinking about coming back here.

About "discrepancies", you can not deny people in eastern part of Ukraine historically closer to Russia and speaks russian mostly. And Russia use this to destabilize the situation.

I am Latvian and citizen of this country, but I will not hide the fact that I am Russian by nationality. I live here all my live, love my country, share Western democratic values, was strongly against Crimea annexation and I am on your side in fact, unlike many Russians here unfortunately. Reading info about Putin corruption empire it is not easy to think they can conquer our country within 24 hours if they want.

Did not want to change the topic, actually, just wanted to note that it is not right to blame someone (even evil one) without evidence.

I wonder if anyone typed this fifty or so political "accidents" ago? Frankly it would be really weird statistically if this WASNT an assassination.

There is high probability of this, but we will see.
 

Jackpot

Banned
Nov 8, 2011
11,465
3
0
I talk the same way I would if I met you on the street. Do not expect me to carry tons of books and newspaper articles to prove my point.

So you admit you can't prove your point.

Also, you're on the internet where digital sources are plentiful.

Problem here wasnt the random tracts of text, it was the irony. No way I'd treat a person like that in a real conversation.

Those words in that order literally mean nothing.
 

Resident_UA

Member
Dec 16, 2008
5,091
8
790
My apologies, I chose wrong word, anarchy definitely was an exaggeration. We here read news (or fake news, who knows) from different sides and do not always understand what to believe in. But I have several friends working and living in Ukraine and they are mostly upset about current situation, especially after this blockade and thinking about coming back here.

About "discrepancies", you can not deny people in eastern part of Ukraine historically closer to Russia and speaks russian mostly. And Russia use this to destabilize the situation.

I am Latvian and citizen of this country, but I will not hide the fact that I am Russian by nationality. I live here all my live, love my country, share Western democratic values, was strongly against Crimea annexation and I am on your side in fact, unlike many Russians here unfortunately. Reading info about Putin corruption empire it is not easy to think they can conquer our country within 24 hours if they want.

Did not want to change the topic, actually, just wanted to note that it is not right to blame someone (even evil one) without evidence.



There is high probability of this, but we will see.
I wasn't exaggerating. It's just Russian propaganda about "discrepancies". In fact there are way more Russians living in Latvia than in Ukraine (% of population). And even though majority of Ukrainians speaks Russian as their primary language, overwhelming majority say that Ukrainian is their "native" language. Ukraine also has the same religion and same traditions in all regions. The only "discrepancies" that ever existed came from watching Russian television. It's crazy that you bought into this bullshit narrative when Latvia has way bigger problems with diverse population.
 

petran79

Banned
Sep 17, 2012
10,395
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910
So you admit you can't prove your point.

Also, you're on the internet where digital sources are plentiful.
.

I prove also that there is conversational bullying if you dont like someone else's opinion
I mean if I just said Putin is evil etc, you wouldnt insist that much on sources now, would you?
 
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