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Rachael Dolezal claims she's jobless and on food stamps
- Thread starter Black Republican
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unhealthy_skeptic
Neo Member
wait... why? why is one okay and not the other?
I feel bad for her because she her life has changed for the worst so rapidly, but there's no way she can't find an entry level job somewhere. If she's only applying for leadership positions in community organizations then yeah no one is gonna hire her, but she can't find any job at all?
metalslimer
Member
Oh dear lord, gender is an actual biological construct has legitimate neurological differences between the two sexes. There is nothing different between a black and white brain
ChamplooJones
Formerly Momotaro
This lady should've been clowned to oblivion from the start. Shit got stupid once folks started taking her seriously.
unhealthy_skeptic
Neo Member
pretending it's obvious doesn't make you right. you haven't explained why one is okay and not the other.
Why are you taking that question seriously? LOL
lilraylewis
Member
This lady did a fucked up thing. And I'm not trying to excuse that, or troll people in this thread, but I genuinely don't understand how one can reject this concept of "trans-racialism" while accepting both trans-genderism and the idea of race as a purely social construct.
I thought the argument in favor of trans-genderism was that gender is just a pigeon-hole that society puts people in based on physical characteristics; therefore, people have the right to take themselves out of that pigeon-hole, so to speak, if they so choose.
If race is also just a label created by society based on physical characteristics, does it not follow that people have the right to change their label if they want, just like trans-gender people?
I'm obviously missing something. Several people have mentioned that trans-genderism is backed by science. Are you referring to gender dysphoria? If so, is that the sole difference here? And if science ever uncovered some kind of racial dysphoria, would that legitimize this concept of trans-racialism?
Again, not trying to offend anyone, and if I did, it was purely unintentional and due to ignorance of this subject.
I thought the argument in favor of trans-genderism was that gender is just a pigeon-hole that society puts people in based on physical characteristics; therefore, people have the right to take themselves out of that pigeon-hole, so to speak, if they so choose.
If race is also just a label created by society based on physical characteristics, does it not follow that people have the right to change their label if they want, just like trans-gender people?
I'm obviously missing something. Several people have mentioned that trans-genderism is backed by science. Are you referring to gender dysphoria? If so, is that the sole difference here? And if science ever uncovered some kind of racial dysphoria, would that legitimize this concept of trans-racialism?
Again, not trying to offend anyone, and if I did, it was purely unintentional and due to ignorance of this subject.
Uh
So I'm not the most educated person on this topic
But that looks a hell of a lot like an explanation
This is like alt-right argument prep
unhealthy_skeptic
Neo Member
are you suggesting that transgender is okay simply because the brains are different? i would think that GAF could do much better, like saying that transgender is okay because being forced into a gender identity by society is sexist and should be done away with.
Raylan Targaryen
Member
They kind of did. One is real and the other is not.
Basically you're asking why is it okay to kill unicorns but not humans.
unhealthy_skeptic
Neo Member
this is like dogpiling prep
We had a full thread of people not acepting social justifications ... "because every doctor, medicine and scientists seems to agree one exist and other doesn't" seem more simple
I'm just gonna jot down a few random thoughts:
Its fully possible and socially legitimate to either grow up surrounded by black culture or immerse yourself in black culture to the point that you identify with black culture more than the culture you were born into, in her case white culture.
Racial identity and cultural identity are not the same.
More than that, at some point she decided to pretend to be black. Not adopt black cultural norms through a natural process, but to pretend to be black.
Choosing to be black is like the ultimate form of white privilege. I'm gonna pretend to have an oppressed racial identity because I want to. Frankly, its an insult to blackness itself that she thinks blackness is something she can opt into.
More than that, since she does have such a clear affinity for black identity, instead of trying to "pass" as black, she should instead have become the ultimate white ally. Be an ally to the black community, use her privilege to support Black Americans, but not pretend to have a racial identity that is not hers.
If she feels internally that she is black and not white, then that is certainly something worth exploring but I'd have to read more about it to try to understand. From what I know, it just seems insulting.
I think what's being suggested is that transgenderism is okay because it's in line with the person's neurological state. I could understand if you didn't agree with the explanation, but I can't understand how you can't recognize it as an explanation.
Call me crazy, but things might go better for you if you actually read the response that had been typed out for you and made some attempt at processing it in your brain.
unhealthy_skeptic
Neo Member
I always saw it as insulting simply because she was being a snake, and she absolutely knew what she was doing. I wouldn't have a big problem with what she did if she wasn't willfully deceiving people and trying to hide the fact that she was born White. I don't hate the fact that she wanted to be part of the Black community. I hate that she would lie to do it.
Generalpsyduck
Banned
Mammoth Jones
Member
👆🏾
lilraylewis
Member
I get that, I think. And it's fairly easy to understand why people would be insulted by someone who lies about being black for personal benefit, especially if that someone is a white person in America. My question was more about "trans-racialism" in general rather that this particular situation.
unhealthy_skeptic
Neo Member
I read it. I didn't understand it, because it doesn't make sense and I don't think that's on me when the explanation is bad. I don't think your interpretation is what he had in mind. His explanation was that different genders have different brains. Am I supposed to make a connection to that and to transgender being okay? I could say the same thing to you, really. If you took the time to read and understand what he said, it makes very little sense.
I honestly don't think you are.
Race clearly does exist, and people clearly care about it, otherwise we wouldn't be having these sorts of discussions. It's not inflexible, or absolutewitness the changing perceptions of the Irish, for instanceand it's not scientific, since no one is doing genetic testing on each and every person before they get to identify as one way or another. But whether as shallow as perceived skin color or to deeper cultural factors, it still shapes how we think and view the world and each other. If it didn't, what Dolezal did wouldn't bat an eye (the other shady stuff she did, I would hope, still would.)
What I do think people are calling out rightly though is the idea of "racial dysphoria". GID is a medically-recognized condition, whereas racial dysphoria is basically just throwing a medical-sounding name on "I feel more kinship with this ethnic group." Given that GID sufferers still face a lot of stigma and disbelief, you can see why they might bristle at the comparison of their innate biological discomfort with their assigned sex compared to someone who wants to wear braids.
Night.Ninja
Banned
I feel sorry for this lady shocking what people have put her though and then trying to justify it with their bullshit reason, embarrassing really
Male brain != Female body
If Male brain + Male body: no conflict
Female brain + Female body: no conflict
Male brain + Female body: conflict. transgenderism is a valid response.
Female brain + Male body: conflict. transgenderism is a valid response.
If Black brain = White brain
Black brain + Black body: no conflict
White brain + White body: no conflict
Black brain + White body = White brain + White body: no conflict
White brain + Black body = Black brain + Black body: no conflict
Again, I don't understand what's so hard to understand.
Mammoth Jones
Member
The fact that her "struggle" even gets serious discussion and attempts at understanding from people is the epitome of White privilege.
Captainbojanglesiii
Banned
I don't think she's doing this maliciously. I think she just has some mental disorder and probably needs some help. I find it hard to believe she can't find some job, but I see why people wouldn't hire her. When you keep putting yourself in the press though, I can't say that I feel much sympathy for her
Transraciality is pretty clear-cut not a real thing. I mean, I suppose I could see yourself identifying with some traits of a given race/culture, but that doesn't mean you are a part of that culture. Maybe she just doesn't understand that or maybe it runs deeper.
Transraciality is pretty clear-cut not a real thing. I mean, I suppose I could see yourself identifying with some traits of a given race/culture, but that doesn't mean you are a part of that culture. Maybe she just doesn't understand that or maybe it runs deeper.
lilraylewis
Member
Spotted the programmer
.Maybe his issue with this is not that he doesn't understand (although that's admittedly what he said) but that he doesn't think this is the correct way to validate transgenderism--that is, instead of justifying on scientific grounds, justify it instead on human rights or social justice grounds. And anecdotally, I'd say most people who support transgenderism would still support it without any scientific justification anyway.
excelsiorlef
Member
Spotted the programmer
Guilty as charged.
Meaning is it possible that someone feels that they are of a different race than the racial identity they are perceived to have or born with? Maybe but race and ethnicity and culture and even nation of origin are all so tied together it would be very interesting but also difficult to imagine. For example, i don't know anyone who is Asian but feels they are Latino. I do know people who identify more as Asian as a racial identity than Chinese or Korean or Japanese as an ethnic identity because they are Asian American and a whole host of reasons that go along with that. I have met people of all races who feel that they have lived the life of a white person or are "basically white." But this is really about society and culture and relationships to power and privilege more so than race, if that makes sense. Race is super complicated of course and because our perceptions of race are so dependent upon social interaction and cultural norms and traditions and at the same time tied to genetics and appearance, I honestly can't quite imagine how someone could feel that they are X race instead of the race they were born into. But neurologically, its probably possible. Every rigid category ultimately has its limits and areas where it breaks apart. We've already seen this with gender and sexuality. Maybe we'll see it more with race in time.
unhealthy_skeptic
Neo Member
I'm glad you took the time to type all that up, but forgive me if I don't just take your word for it when it comes to these issues. First of all, you need a double equals for booleans. Secondly, I have a huge problem with people assuming that transracism isn't a thing. It's very much still up for debate. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying you don't know, so stop pretending you do.
Frozenprince
Banned
Right? Like I just ain't here dealing with all this shit and yet NOT doing horribly offensive things.
Mammoth Jones
Member
If a Black man said he felt White inside and tried to look "White" by lightening his skin would we even be giving that shit this level of thought?
Or would we all shake our head cause bro got issues trying to be something he's simply not?
It's not a thing. Transracialism is not a thing.
Do you think that people of different races think differently?
You sound like someone who says that otherkin is still up for debate
This is ALREADY a thing. Its sad and complicated and it does deserve thought. I've definitely met black people who, due to the circumstances of their own life. literally identify more with white culture than black culture. But again that's cultural identity not racial identity.
You're changing the nature of the argument. This is what I was taking issue with:
Again, if you don't think the explanation is right, I'm not going to stop you. I never claimed to be knowledgeable about the subject. But you received an explanation, ignored it, and then acted inexplicably arrogant about that fact. People being arrogant about their ignorance is a pet peeve of mine.
Frozenprince
Banned
Why are y'all giving a junior with half their posts ever in this very thread the time of day? You know the game.
unhealthy_skeptic
Neo Member
I can see that arguing with you guys is going nowhere, so I'd just like to pose a question to you. In the following video, is the person in question Chinese, or Black? Because she argues that she's Chinese, and I'm inclined to believe her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2XAWcs7HbM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2XAWcs7HbM
Frozenprince
Banned
Just wanna say this is an issue that biracial people come to terms with and live with all the time. But I don't know anybody that thinks they are transracial or whatever the fuck they are trying to call it now.
lilraylewis
Member
A lot to think about here. I appreciate the response.
Yeah exactly but how can we say that about a black man trying to be white but not about a man trying to be a woman? I just don't get the distinction. Is it solely because gender dysphoria is a medical condition?
She is culturally Chinese. That does not change her outward appearance that would make people think she is black and treat her thusly.
edit: more specifically, she's biracial, not "transracial"
Mammoth Jones
Member
Cultural identity is an entirely different subject. And you know that.
I'm talking about trying to change ones ethnicity. The thread is about a woman trying to change her ethnicity. Not her culture. And that is not a thing.
You can identify with whatever culture you choose. But you can't change your race/ethnicity. If this was a Black man trying to be Asian, Asian trying to be Arab, Latino trying to be Native American no one would be having this conversation.
But White woman gets the benefit of the doubt? Nah. Fuck that. This shit ain't cool. She's not Black. The fuck lol.
Cultural. Not transracialism. Having grow up in the burbs and gone to White schools I get it. But biracial isn't the same as a White person trying to pretend they're Black.
If a biracial person chooses to embrace one culture over the other that's entirely their choice and I respect that.
But this shit ain't it and I don't see how a comparison can be made.
Frozenprince
Banned
Gender is becoming more recognized as a social construct.
Skin color is something you're born with and cannot change.
Easy peasy. This is a woman living in a first world nation exercising her white privilege. All it is.
Skin color is something you're born with and cannot change.
Easy peasy. This is a woman living in a first world nation exercising her white privilege. All it is.
its not really. neither is transgenderism. gender is a thing, race is a social construct created to separate and categorize people based on their physical appearance.
She's Black Chinese. Meaning ethnically she is of African descent. Culturally and in terms of national identity and cultural identity she is Chinese. Race being so tied to ethnicity, she is Black. You can be any race and born in a different country and only ever live with that country's social and cultural norms. But you can't remove her African descent from her.
Frozenprince
Banned
I said this in one of these threads. But basically, transgender people exist everywhere. You see them in third world countries where they've never seen a television or the internet, you see them in secluded backwoods, you see them in urban and rural and everywhere on earth.
Name me one "transracial" person from a third world nation.
Name me one "transracial" person from a third world nation.
Right. Her phenotypic makeup makes it obvious that she is of African descent, and while she feels culturally Chinese, she doesn't have a Chinese brain because there is no such thing. Whether she is "black" or not depends on external response, because races are sociocultural groupings that get applied to people; if other people see her as and treat her as black, with all that that entails, then she's black whether she likes it or not.
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