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[TheInfamousKira]

Disclaimer: This is my first thread, so be gentle, I'll try not to ramble too much, but with that said, prepare yourselves for several walls of text.

I just had a random thought about the current climate of gaming. Everyone is well aware that in the past few years, AAA studios have taken to covering their titles in Progressive ideals/politics/propaganda to varying degrees of intensity/success. Games such as The Last of Us: Part II, the new Watchdogs entry, Tell Me Why, etc. are all exploring (or shoehorning in, depending on opinions) themes, ideas, and narratives that are tied to the progressive left. What I'm wondering is, is this part of some cycle that repeats itself in the game industry every decade or so where the big studios force their audience to essentially cannibalize themselves in the name of chasing trends?

Maybe I'm nuts, or reading way too far into it, but at the genesis of console gaming, this hobby was looked at as an expensive toy by the outsiders, and an elite bragging rights badge by the hardcore. It seems like toward the end of the SNES era, things (namely promotion) had evolved in a very "aleniate the old guy with the beer belly at the PacMan booth, get them kids in here!" attitude.

And attitude was the key word. Playstation's marketing, Crash Bandicoot ads, Super Smash Brothers commercials with mascots beating on each other, the advent of GTA and the Jack Thompsons of the world. Even into later years, where Bloodrayne ads were telling parents and gamers alike "it's dark, it's edgy, it's got titties," and so on and so on. Gaming suddenly appealed to the Gen X crowd almost exclusively.

And here, in 2020, I can't help but feel like we're coming full circle. Woke, progressive hashtag activism is what's "in," with the target demographic, and I feel like AAA studios are doing what Disney does, but they're better at pulling the wool over consumer's eyes. Red Letter Media coined the term "passive progressive," and I think it fits. These are companies and they want money, so they're casting their net out over Twitter and like minded places, and leaving the old guard to either conform or fade away.

So thoughts? Ideas? Will the trend shift back around to mindless fun and interesting ideas without preaching or moral grandstanding?

 

[Silvawuff]

I think it's entirely subjective. What offends one group won't another, and the goal post of any studio is to sell as many copies of the game as possible. They'll send out whatever message they feel they need to make it happen.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Disclaimer: This is my first thread, so be gentle

 

[Clarissa]

Final Fantasy 16's lead character will be a black transgender woman who's paraplegic. You don't ride chocobos anymore. You ride wheelchairs.

 

[Danjin44]

I would say, stop thinking what’s “woke” what’s not and just enjoy the game for what it is, you either going to enjoy it or not.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

I would say, stop thinking what’s “woke” what’s not just enjoy the game for what it is, you either going to enjoy it or not.

I mean, I should probably clarify, I'm into exploring whatever different ideas and themes are on offer, so long as the gameplay doesn't suck. I'm currently on a second playthrough of TLOU2, but it's pretty easy to delineate between games that want to lecture you and games that want to be games.

 

[Mojoraisin]

I think it’s completely different than your other examples since this is not only gaming but society as a whole. The relevant question is - will the world ever get over the race for who’s the biggest victim?

The 60s peace/love is probably the closest in terms of cultural movement. Just look at how it shaped all kinds of entertainment. It “ended” after a while so I guess it can happen again. Until society gets over some of the madness of the zeitgeist, many games will stay “woke”.

 

[MrS]

The worst trend in recent memory, indeed. The sooner it passes, the better. I have no tolerance for woke lunacy and its cunty trappings.

 

[Fart Knight]

Porn will always exist

 

[Old Retro]

It bothers only closed minded people. Do you also get upset at commercials that have gay people or interracial couples?

 

[down 2 orth]

Of course it is. True social change happens at a snail's pace. If too much change is forced to happen too quickly, then ultimately a society will revert to its old ways when things settle down. Permanent or long-term change can only occur when a massive degree of destruction is carried out (hence Marxism, the Great Leap Forward, Stalin's purges, etc.).

 

[TheInfamousKira]

Porn will always exist

So will toast and cardboard? What in the body of that message implied that I was upset about a lack of T and A? Come now.

 

[Vawn]

I demand every character creator from now on has MINIMUM of seven gender options to choose from.

 

[HarryKS]

Yes.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

I think it's a phase. When the over-the-top woke shit like Dontnod churns out declines in sales and 343-style diversity hire studios get the axe after continuing to fail, we'll be out of this predicament.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

It bothers only closed minded people. Do you also get upset at commercials that have gay people or interracial couples?

No, I don't. I also never said it upset me. Game developers could be making games heavily leaning towards Lizard People because it's what's currently popular, it wouldn't change the idea behind this thread. Stop assuming everyone who notices a trend is frothing at the mouth and loading their assault rifle. Yikes.

 

[Isa]

I hope its merely a cycle, but I fear that its more than that. The Intersectionality cult has many tendrils, with quite a few big tech companies being involved in questionable practices. Google for instance is trying to leverage their power in the social media space to influence elections, which despite not being new would have been enough to cause outrage decades ago. For every instance I see of say comics getting woke, media outlets masquerading as news organisations, hell look at all the slacktavists in Games Journalism, it seems they are determined to stay their course.

As for games, I've nearly all but stopped caring about western game companies since they are so uninspired and riddled with stupid antics. I'm sick of it. So I've thus limited my purchasing habits and have saved a huge chunk of my usual spending dollar and its only going to keep building going into next gen. I think it'll only truly change after a paradigm shift in the culture war(s) presently taking place across various elements of society. Whether that is peaceful, violent, or merely the public or those who practice and espouse these beliefs eventual tire of it all, who knows. I guess it could be labeled as a cycle.

 

[FunkMiller]

There’s nothing wrong with games featuring more minorities. If you don’t believe that, then it’s you who has the problem.

What isn’t right is when political agendas hijack games to the detriment of gameplay or narrative - especially when it’s a cynical attempt by certain developers

UBISOFT

to appeal to a small cross section of the audience, and is motivated by nothing other than greed.

And the audience isn’t stupid. Those types of games/movies/tv shows always fail.

 

[vpance]

I'm afraid this is just the beginning. Expect this part of the cycle to last another 10-20 years at least.

 

[martino]

imo it's people getting old and not happy hegemony is changing and not opting for/keeping values they like.

 

[Unknown?]

It bothers only closed minded people. Do you also get upset at commercials that have gay people or interracial couples?

True. Pedophilia as well is only shunned by closed minded people. The woke are making progress in making that the norm here in California

 

[ipukespiders]

I don't know if it will ever get better, but it will certainly get worse in the short term.

 

[zeorhymer]

It bothers only closed minded people. Do you also get upset at commercials that have gay people or interracial couples?

I guess I'm closed minded because it bothers me that all the criminals in TV shows and the news are black.

 

[Hendrick's]

Well we can only hope because this woke trend is destroying our society.

 

[Pejo]

How long will it take us to get back to the relatively comfy times of whenever the new 90s is? That's where I want to be.

 

[Ellery]

I can't predict the future, but there is no stopping the train of change. Whether it will be good for you or even worse will also depend a lot on your perspective and willingness to leave the comfort zone.

(Note that I agree about the hypocrisy of big companies like Ubisoft marketing things solely for money reasons and to avoid outrage to wherever the wind blows right now.)

 

[RoboFu]

The major problems with wokeness in the media and video games that it constantly pushes a narrative that any one who is woke is the good guy and those who are not .. are evil.
Also that the woke people will always win for the greater good.

In reality there is a lot more to it than just chanting slogans and forming policies based on broad generalizations, but because it has been so ingrained for people to believe media and markiting we have come to where we are now.
Blind followers of what ever "Team" they follow to make them feel import and special because their whole lives the media, marketing, and politicians have told them they are important and special for their own gain.

The biggest difference in this era and others is that the advent of TV and Internet intensifies all these things to as degree never seen before.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

I can't predict the future, but there is no stopping the train of change. Whether it will be good for you or even worse will also depend a lot on your perspective and willingness to leave the comfort zone.

(Note that I agree about the hypocrisy of big companies like Ubisoft marketing things solely for money reasons and to avoid outrage to wherever the wind blows right now.)

I think that's the bit that bothers me. The disingenuous nature of a lot of these efforts in an attempt to capitalize on malleable youth and the earnest efforts of a few game developers to chart new ground. Call me a titty obsessed bigot (even a broken clock is correct twice a day) but I believe anyone with the capability to fire a synapse can tell the difference between Schindler's List and the Holocaust Tiktoks, or Brokeback Mountain versus a half a second of two women kissing in the background of a scene in The Rise of Skywalker. I'm a firm believer that the way to spread awareness isn't with an overwhelming deluge of hollow virtue signaling media, but with earnest, honest, non-comittee generated efforts.

To go back to my Gen X point, you could also see the difference between titles and pieces of media that had attitude and edgy cashgrabs. Things that were made because the creators had legitimate grievances and wanted to pour out their frustrations in a creative way, versus "Kids dig the word 'fuck,' right?"

Round and round it goes, I guess. I'm just reaching the age where it's painfully obvious when I'm being pandered to in spite of my wallet, and it's frustrating when people gather around to call the Big Mac "art," when there's a five star chef potentially around the corner.

 

[sn0man]

I think it’s painful in the short term but will be awesome in the long term.

pick up the majority of 1980s NES and PC game boxes and it was often just a reflection of movies and novels. Muscle-bound blond or brown-haired white dude saving white woman. It never bothered me. It never triggered me.

Now 30 years later when a major AAA comes out with a Kyle or Nathan white dude doing stuff I feel something worse. Boredom.

I think we are in for another decade of painful focus as many games on women and people of color and non-cis people. I say painful in that it will feel equally forced and equally bitched about. SJW will champion it. Anti-inclusive babies will shit on it.

But look past that. Maybe we will get really interesting AAA titles that are about Maurice a dude from Cleveland fighting vampires or something. The best part will be that the persons differences are a source of interesting story, plot, setting, or gameplay loop. Until another decade of this we will have the two sides shitting all over each other.

I just want to play good/compelling games. TLOU2 if you ignore the zeitgeist is an early example. You play as a character and it’s fun and interesting. Go places. See stuff. Gameplay. Do things.

I do agree with OP. It was a toy for kids in the 1980s and it was an edgy genX hobby in the 1990s-2000s.

now everyone sees it as an option for a political agenda.

I’m excited for all those warriors and babies to just go away so we can focus on what I think video games are now. An equally independent and unique art or media, like books, tv, and movies but with the added benefit of also being a fun toy to just escape and play.

 

[Hudo]

Problem with the woke shit is that we'll probably never going to get another game set in the Dark Sun universe since Swords & Sorcery is pretty "woke-unfriendly". Imagine a Conan movie being made today...

 

[SEGA_2012]

It is here to stay. It will get worse and worse and worse.

 

[Blitzmangoman]

It is here to stay. It will get worse and worse and worse.

Hopefully not.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

So will toast and cardboard? What in the body of that message implied that I was upset about a lack of T and A? Come now.

Some people equate eye catching things to porn because society has brainwashed them into being untrue to themselves.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

Some people equate eye catching things to porn because society has brainwashed them into being untrue to themselves.

It sort of goes to show how shallow some people's investment in this goes. Media control, diversity, representation, censorship and saturation are all tied together, and things that I take a great interest in, but for some, it's only ever going to be about what's between your legs, which is sort of like the bit of the iceberg that's above the water.

 

[CAB_Life]

imo it's people getting old and not happy hegemony is changing and not opting for/keeping values they like.

Unfortunately, that’s not supported by data. Acceptance of LGBT people, for example, is markedly declined in younger demographics, instead of continuing to improve. Naturally, the GLAD ‘scholars’ (who did the survey) blamed hate speech and the alt-right, but the simplest answer is often the correct one, and I think a lot of it lies in the certainty of what is true vs. what is believed, what is fact vs. what is fiction (any and all ideologies). Younger generations have always been better at seeing life with a certain aggressive clarity—but are obviously blind to other failings.

I’m pretty confident the next/ emerging generation will be more conservative than the last. The pendulum always swings back.

 

[Gormless Noodle]

It will not turn back to mindless fun as far as I can tell. Remember that what we currently call "woke" i.e progressive politics has been in the making for decades, since the 60's even, some could argue even before that. And progressives always have to progress towards something so in fact I assume it will get worse, much worse and it's completely entrenched right now.

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Probably not and going to get worse.

I was talking to someone earlier today how if we were to travel 100 years in the future, there won't be any more male or female distinction at least gender-wise. Maybe biological too in many cases considering medical advancements.

 

[En Sama]

Every game I have ever played has been woke. The problem as I see it is with the forced wokeness. Everybody knows that racism and sexism is bad so if you keep telling people that they are racist and sexist when they know they are not you are going to lose them with your woke message.

 

[Craig of War]

Yes No Maybe

 

[TheInfamousKira]

Unfortunately, that’s not supported by data. Acceptance of LGBT people, for example, is markedly declined in younger demographics, instead of continuing to improve. Naturally, the GLAD ‘scholars’ (who did the survey) blamed hate speech and the alt-right, but the simplest answer is often the correct one, and I think a lot of it lies in the certainty of what is true vs. what is believed, what is fact vs. what is fiction (any and all ideologies). Younger generations have always been better at seeing life with a certain aggressive clarity—but are obviously blind to other failings.

I’m pretty confident the next/ emerging generation will be more conservative than the last. The pendulum always swings back.

And I think when it happens, it's going to be the fault of those most invested in its success. Mobs are stupid, people individually usually AREN'T. Ellie was a lesbian in first TLOU. Bill was gay. Henry and Sam were black. No one took issue with it, because it was incorporated into a well thought out narrative, with proper pacing and a world with established and consistent rules and logic. People took issue with the sequel because it DECONSTRUCTED all of that and failed to Frankenstein the pieces into something that felt like it had a valid reason to be there. Again, quantity over quality. These people think that the way to get people to listen is to blare the sound from every street corner, but they're ignorant to the fact that it's a recording of a recording playing at this point, and the static is too loud to decipher the original intent of the message.

 

[MightySquirrel]

The only thing I don't understand that something that's only relevant to 1% of population gets forced into 80% of games. How the fuck is it fair to have most games ruined because of 1% ?

I think it's fair to demand equality! 1% of games for those representing 1% of population and 99% of games without garbage for normal people ! That's simple math.

 

[radewagon]

In answer to your query, yes, the wokeness biz is part of a cycle. It is also a response to years of the pendulum having swung in the opposite direction for far too long.

Let me start by saying that, like it or not, videogames are art. And art is amazing. Art also tends to not exist in a vacuum. It is affected by and affects the culture in which it exists. It can challenge or reinforce the status quo. It can have an agenda. It can have a message. It can forward an ideology that you might not like. It can also, sometimes, feel like it is being forced upon us or disingenuous. And, y'know, sometimes it is, but I see far too many people these days making the assumption that all such moves by companies and creatives are entirely cynical in nature. As though none of these companies or developers actually see problems and desire change. It's dangerous to see only artifice in a mass group of people wanting things to be different simply because you don't want them to change or because you don't trust their intentions. Simply put, you don't know them. You are running the risk of projecting your fear of what their intentions could be and blinding yourself to what they actually may be.

Will the trend shift back around to mindless fun and interesting ideas without preaching or moral grandstanding?

Most games are STILL mindless fun. The pervasiveness of gaming's wokeness is embarrassingly overemphasized. That said, remember, games are art. Thanks to technological advancements developers now have the freedom to better express themselves and will continue to do so. You would do well to stop seeing only what you want/expect to see. Confirmation bias is a terrible drug. If all you expect to see from people pushing design choices that stress diversification or gender equality are opportunistic shills looking to make a quick buck off of demographic shifts and societal strife, then that is likely all that you will ever see.

 

[makaveli60]

Nope. A destructive evil agenda is in effect and the cockroaches who propagate it leak into everywhere and spread their shit. And unfortunately a lot of dense people eat it up.

 

[YCoCg]

What I find funny about the current trend is that we were MORE progressive in the 90's, then for some reason through the mid-2000's things got super inclusive and generic (brown haired white male era) which lead to a fracture and build up of events like GamerGate, etc.

The issue is WHY did we revert in the mid-2000's? If you look back at the 90's no one batted an eyelid if a game starred a woman or something, where as if you compare it to now when a game doesn't feature a male character it gets accused of being woke sjw garbage, etc, etc.

Personally I think we do need to make more progress because let's face it, if a big chunk of 90's classics were released now people would scream it's sjw rubbish, we need to at least get back to the chill vibe the older generations had before this weird inclusive "only for us" mentality became the norm.

 

[Yoboman]

They are all just corporations trying to make money by latching on to trends. Or just watch this



And yes it goes in cycles. There will be a counter resurgence of "edgy" humour in a few years. Probably when Democrats are in office and wealthy libs don't feel the need to be extra woke and start ignoring politics and the world around them again

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I don’t see the “Woke” trend ending anytime soon especially with next generation on the horizon. As a matter of fact, I see things getting MUCH worst especially in the West.

Hopefully Japanese gaming won’t be affected too much, but unfortunately seems like this trend influences literally everything nowadays. What I don’t understand is why change the entire direction of a game or company for the diminutive 5% that actually care about and support your game?

 

[sobaka770]

Games as any art form are heavy influenced by the climate in which they are created. The current politization of everything as well as increased polarization of opinion to the point of only having basically two extremes: alt-left and alt-right that dominate the conversation and don't allow room for cooler moderate heads to prevail (whom both sides label as indecisive and ineffectual) effectively would lead to a huge imprint in modern gaming.

In that sense - history is also cyclical so the answer to your question is probably yes and when Trump and his very divisive agenda is out of the office you will see gradual return to subdued normalcy.

 

[PanzerAzel]

I despise the entire “woke” movement as it stands not because I’m against diversity, representation or whatnot, but because it promotes collectivism and group identity politics that only serve to draw lines between us further. Individualism is devalued and marginalized in the name of the most superficial of metrics to measure some arbitrary ideal of filling some random quota of equality and fairness. It’s a flawed philosophy from its inception.

I’m making it far more simplistic than it actually is obviously, but yeah. I’m not against wokeness, I am bothered by its current manner of attainment.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Honestly, yes. Its all part of the cultural cycles. When the pendulum swings back, modern (at the time) games will be appealing to the views of that public.

Drawing some parallels of modern times with the 60s, i'd say the 2020's will be a decade of cynism and disbelief rather than rampant social justice as some might fear.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

I despise the entire “woke” movement as it stands not because I’m against diversity, representation or whatnot, but because it promotes collectivism and group identity politics that only serve to draw lines between us further. Individualism is devalued and marginalized in the name of the most superficial of metrics to measure some arbitrary ideal of filling some random quota of equality and fairness. It’s a flawed philosophy from its inception.

I’m making it far more simplistic than it actually is obviously, but yeah. I’m not against wokeness, I am bothered by its current manner of attainment.

It certainly seems that the lines drawn are pretty deep, lately. Like I understand that the topic is a hotbed for impassioned comments, but this thread, for instance, was started because I just wanted to gather individual opinions and get a discussion going, not in an effort to build an echo chamber or protest the inclusion of certain groups of people.

I try to be very open minded unless the other end of the argument is trying to lump me into vague boxes in an Us vs. Them frame of mind. I find politics in general quite bland, but this dichotomy of old vs. new, left vs. right kind of fascinates/terrifies me as far as media is concerned, and that's the area I have the most exposure to, so it's the area I focus on.