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[NikuNashi]

Some people on the middle ground, especially people like me who don't live in western countries and so have a completely different understanding/experience of culture don't need to be lectured to about American politics by Americans. It's frankly absurd and small minded to push one countries political issues onto the rest of the world. Even in this comments section somebody used the word 'minorities'. What you mean is minority ethnicity in USA. I'm a minority in an Asian country, but I'm damn sure you weren't talking about me in that definition.

Edit: to be clear I'm not bashing the USA at all, rather the vocal minority of woke morally superior it's who are trying to push their tiny areas problem (real or otherwise) in to games that are sold worldwide.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

Some people on the middle ground, especially people like me who don't live in western countries and so have a completely different understanding/experience of culture don't need to be lectured to about American politics by Americans. It's frankly absurd and small minded to push one countries political issues onto the rest of the world. Even in this comments section somebody used the word 'minorities'. What you mean is minority ethnicity in USA. I'm a minority in an Asian country, but I'm damn sure you weren't talking about me in that definition.

Edit: to be clear I'm not bashing the USA at all, rather the vocal minority of woke morally superior it's who are trying to push their tiny areas problem (real or otherwise) in to games that are sold worldwide.

I think what somewhat complicates matters is that with the advent of near instant post/reply environments like Twitter and what have you, the internet has almost become something of a landless country, itself. At the very least it has it's own culture and etiquette standards/expectations, even down to perceived "crime," and "punishment," i.e. cancel mobs and kangaroo courts.

For my part, I *do* apologize if my posts so far have seemed to stem from an "America is the center of the universe," place. It's a blindspot of mine, having never had the opportunity to visit other countries, though I'll try to convey the region's my ramblings apply to in future posts.

 

[recursive]

I would say, stop thinking what’s “woke” what’s not and just enjoy the game for what it is, you either going to enjoy it or not.

What you seem to be suggesting is complacency. What is the issue with pointing out the woke shit? Whining and complaining is what got it there in the first place. Ignoring it has done nothing but make it stronger over the past handful of years.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Porn will always exist

It bothers only closed minded people. Do you also get upset at commercials that have gay people or interracial couples?

There’s nothing wrong with games featuring more minorities. If you don’t believe that, then it’s you who has the problem.

Look at all the disingenuous strawman arguments. Y'all sure you didn't mistake this place for Era?

 

[Warnen]

The “woke” stuff doesn’t bother me in fact I kinda like exploring things I’ll never have 1st had knowledge about, ie Dontnod‘s stuff in the life is strange games and tell me why.


Fans of said games that can’t take criticism, on the other hand, are the worse. So dismissive of everything and jump to the racist/sexist stuff. Just another blunt instrument in a fanboiz arsenal.

 

[Fart Knight]

Look at all the disingenuous strawman arguments. Y'all sure you didn't mistake this place for Era?

You know I would get banned for saying that on reeeee

 

[martino]

Unfortunately, that’s not supported by data. Acceptance of LGBT people, for example, is markedly declined in younger demographics, instead of continuing to improve. Naturally, the GLAD ‘scholars’ (who did the survey) blamed hate speech and the alt-right, but the simplest answer is often the correct one, and I think a lot of it lies in the certainty of what is true vs. what is believed, what is fact vs. what is fiction (any and all ideologies). Younger generations have always been better at seeing life with a certain aggressive clarity—but are obviously blind to other failings.

I’m pretty confident the next/ emerging generation will be more conservative than the last. The pendulum always swings back.

I'm not sure it can happen if our societies stay or become even more cut and careless about a part of it.(nature)

 

[aclar00]

I guess I'm closed minded because it bothers me that all the criminals in TV shows and the news are black.

Yet the outrage against that was/is minimal IMO compared to that of the current gender/sexuality related pushback. Blacks or darker skinned/color bad guys (i see you Scar) are much more normalized and attempts to include more positive characters or was very similar to the pushback on gender issues today. Hell, even still if a black person is a lead in an unexpected movie they have to deal with the "its 'cause he's black" or "he must know someone" card as opposed to being the most suited.

Flipnit and reverse it

 

[hariseldon]

It bothers only closed minded people. Do you also get upset at commercials that have gay people or interracial couples?

Holy straw man batman.

 

[PleaseWaitStation4]

It's still a movement from a very small group of people. The only way woke has an appearance of a large movement is that woke activists have infiltrated key positions in a lot of tech companies. The only way the company catches on is when they start to see the downward trends and track it back to that or those employees. They also coordinate in whisper networks. The woke thing is way too lame and unprofitable to sustain itself. Those saying otherwise are trolling and should be launched into the sun. A recent example is the destruction of Star Wars squadrons with lesbian-led Empire advertised in fuchsia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisexual_lighting

 

[A Most Virtuous Cat]

Disclaimer: This is my first thread, so be gentle, I'll try not to ramble too much, but with that said, prepare yourselves for several walls of text.

I just had a random thought about the current climate of gaming. Everyone is well aware that in the past few years, AAA studios have taken to covering their titles in Progressive ideals/politics/propaganda to varying degrees of intensity/success. Games such as The Last of Us: Part II, the new Watchdogs entry, Tell Me Why, etc. are all exploring (or shoehorning in, depending on opinions) themes, ideas, and narratives that are tied to the progressive left. What I'm wondering is, is the part of some cycle that repeats itself in the game industry every decade or so where the big studios force their audience to essentially cannibalize themselves in the name of chasing trends?

Maybe I'm nuts, or reading way too far into it, but at the genesis of console gaming, this hobby was looked at as an expensive toy by the outsiders, and an elite bragging rights badge by the hardcore. It seems like toward the end of the SNES era, things (namely promotion) had evolved in a very "aleniate the old guy with the beer belly at the PacMan booth, get them kids in here!" attitude.

And attitude was the key word. Playstation's marketing, Crash Bandicoot ads, Super Smash Brothers commercials with mascots beating on each other, the advent of GTA and the Jack Thompsons of the world. Even into later years, where Bloodrayne ads were telling parents and gamers alike "it's dark, it's edgy, it's got titties," and so on and so on. Gaming suddenly appealed to the Gen X crowd almost exclusively.

And here, in 2020, I can't help but feel like we're coming full circle. Woke, progressive hashtag activism is what's "in," with the target demographic, and I feel like AAA studios are doing what Disney does, but they're better at pulling the wool over consumer's eyes. Red Letter Media coined the term "passive progressive," and I think it fits. These are companies and they want money, so they're casting their net out over Twitter and like minded places, and leaving the old guard to either conform or fade away.

So thoughts? Ideas? Will the trend shift back around to mindless fun and interesting ideas without preaching or moral grandstanding?

Your are entirely correct in your analysis. The capitalist industry will push anything that makes them more money; currently, woke liberalism and 'celebrating the individual' is the way to go. When you isolate people from community and celebrate that sense of being alone and independent, you can sell more quite literally. Had the woke LGBT narrative been unprofitable, you can bet your life that it would not have gotten paddled this much or even at all. At one time, religion made money, and now the big bucks are at lgbtqzyz+ and 'independence'; divide the family unit to create more buyers.

 

[hariseldon]

Probably not and going to get worse.

I was talking to someone earlier today how if we were to travel 100 years in the future, there won't be any more male or female distinction at least gender-wise. Maybe biological too in many cases considering medical advancements.

That sounds like an absolutely horrible nightmare dystopian vision of the future that utterly fails to consider human nature.

 

[PleaseWaitStation4]

Go woke go broke. Proven again and again and again .

 

[Raonak]

The idea that in 50 years, people will somehow be more conservative around issues of race, sexuality, gender, is funny.

Especially once genetic engineering and body modifications become more popular.

In 1000 years humans will be considered a completely different species.

Society, culture and humanity itself is constantly evolving. And it's fucking awesome.

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

At the very least, wokeness in video games will be a thing, as long as game makers are chasing non-straight, white (and/or asian) male audiences.
Its a pity, because straight white/asian males seem to like the coolest stuff.

 

[Shubh_C63]

I don't think it is about the cause at all.
Its just that having your game labelled "LGBTQ optimized" will make it easier to stay in news/twitter/etc.

All about people involvement and this is what is in. You ain't getting mainstream audience retweets anymore making a dig at Nintendon't or Pony.

 

[shaddam]

I didnt have problem with the last of us. I cant say the same about tell me why. I think I should play the first watchdogs game and ignore the rest of the franchise. Problaby this whole thing will disappear when the corporate guys realise that pink haired twitter weirdos dont buy games

 

[Azurro]

I would say, stop thinking what’s “woke” what’s not and just enjoy the game for what it is, you either going to enjoy it or not.

That's a disingenuous point of view. If someone dislikes the woke ideology, they won't enjoy woke media.

It's also dangerous to ignore it, as it has awful effects on society. The US has some staggering side effects because of this: racism is on the rise ("it's ok because it's the acceptable kind"), fracturing society by ultra focusing on people's racial identity, civil unrest leading to riots, an astonishing rise in little girls becoming trans that aren't actually trans but the popular ideology pushes kids into this.

It's very dangerous to just brush it aside. Thankfully I don't live there, and haven't lived in Canada for a few years now, but it is still a social laboratory that tends to export their crap to everyone else, so it's worth it to monitor it. Germany especially has committed Sudoku a few times by following the American's lead.

 

[PleaseWaitStation4]

“I don’t think we should organize a society around the sensibilities of the most easily upset people because then you have a very neurotic society.”

 

[FunkMiller]

Look at all the disingenuous strawman arguments. Y'all sure you didn't mistake this place for Era?

Well done for just cutting that sentence from my post to back up your spurious and pointless commentary! *the slowest of handclaps*

 

[The Scrivener]

I demand every character creator from now on has MINIMUM of seven gender options to choose from.

You absolute fascist. Eight genders. Eight. What are you, a literal Nazi???

 

[Eimran]

It bothers only closed minded people. Do you also get upset at commercials that have gay people or interracial couples?

And it is exactly this kind of predictible reaction that prevents people from having an adult discussion.
Somebody says something that made me butthurt, let's imply that he's homophobe and racist so I can "win" the argument.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

I'd be lying if I were to say some of it wasn't off-putting but I understand and have enough empathy to realize that this must be how folks who don't conform to traditional gender roles (or whose race & ethnicity aren't represented) feel all the time. I wish everyone happiness in life.

 

[LeftThumbstick]

I honestly couldn’t give one single shit to be honest with you.

I think the people who focus and care so much about these kinds of things are more interested in politics than gaming.

SJW’s vs the anti-SJW’s, you’re both one in the same.

 

[Paracelsus]

It all depends on where it's happening, why, if you think it's about love and tolerance or money.

The thread is anyway a good reminder that if you think there's horseshoe, you're quite objectively a gullible fool.

 

[CrysisFreak]

It bothers only closed minded people. Do you also get upset at commercials that have gay people or interracial couples?

 

[Jon Neu]

It bothers only closed minded people. Do you also get upset at commercials that have gay people or interracial couples?

Oh, the old "if you critizice woke politics you are racist, sexist, transphobic" ad hominem.

We haven't had that simpleton level of discourse for a while.

 

[Stray Parts]

It is a cycle but how long it lasts and how much damage it does is unknown.

It helps to know where this all came from, with a lot of reading and research here is a very crude summary.
1) Soviet Union collapses & western pro soviet marxist intellectuals in university despair.
2) In USA extreme far left intellectuals take marxist doctrine from the ashes and build a new one called "Critical Social Justice Theory".
3) Basically they swap capitalism for race, so instead of the rich being oppressors anyone who is white now the bad guy, they use distorted views of USA history to justify it and by extension the west too.
4) This movement stays in the extreme edges of society up until the classic liberal order collapsed in the 2008 global economy crash.
5) Rather than press the reset button the elites of the west papered over the cracks, this made things only worse allowing for extreme ideologies to spread as economic inequality spread like wildfire but left other factions of society unaffected.
6) CSJT activists begin to take over universities and schools in 2010 and have been spreading their cancerous ideology ever since, these are what are creating the woke mobs.

They use harassment, bullying, violence to get their way, radicalize minority groups, turn student unions into secret police and suppress any discussion of what the CSJT movement actually stands for.

The abandonment of the mostly political neutral stance of video games and wider corporations is by design of the CSJT movement, taking over media outlets both old (New York Times) and new (twitter), various institutions, its all part of the goal to bring about a "cultural revolution" and replace classic liberal democracy.

A lot of USA progressives have been taken in by CSJT and do not realize just how dangerous and authoritarian it is behind the fake mask of tolerance and diversity, same goes for political establishment types who would rather criticize the backlash against CSJT then actually face them down. Twisting the meaning of things is another CSJT tactic by branding anyone who would take them on as a nazi, white nationalist etc.

Thankfully a lot of liberal academics are now finally waking up to this danger and are banding together to try and stop its spread, New Discourse is one of the best places to learn just how insane and perverse the CSJT movement is from an academic point of view, another is Quillette who actually have a piece up on Pepsi and their embrace of CSJT and how serious is it or is it a fad.

If that's too high level watch Joe Rogan interview James Lindsay from new Discourses and he spells it out.

All of the above basically explains why the woke mentality is spreading through games, if the push-back against it is successful then eventually in time with the passing of generations it will fade.

It's largely North America that is the most affected by this so expect games from this region to continue to be the most woke for the foreseeable future.

 

[Saruhashi]

Disclaimer: This is my first thread, so be gentle, I'll try not to ramble too much, but with that said, prepare yourselves for several walls of text.

I just had a random thought about the current climate of gaming. Everyone is well aware that in the past few years, AAA studios have taken to covering their titles in Progressive ideals/politics/propaganda to varying degrees of intensity/success. Games such as The Last of Us: Part II, the new Watchdogs entry, Tell Me Why, etc. are all exploring (or shoehorning in, depending on opinions) themes, ideas, and narratives that are tied to the progressive left. What I'm wondering is, is the part of some cycle that repeats itself in the game industry every decade or so where the big studios force their audience to essentially cannibalize themselves in the name of chasing trends?

Maybe I'm nuts, or reading way too far into it, but at the genesis of console gaming, this hobby was looked at as an expensive toy by the outsiders, and an elite bragging rights badge by the hardcore. It seems like toward the end of the SNES era, things (namely promotion) had evolved in a very "aleniate the old guy with the beer belly at the PacMan booth, get them kids in here!" attitude.

And attitude was the key word. Playstation's marketing, Crash Bandicoot ads, Super Smash Brothers commercials with mascots beating on each other, the advent of GTA and the Jack Thompsons of the world. Even into later years, where Bloodrayne ads were telling parents and gamers alike "it's dark, it's edgy, it's got titties," and so on and so on. Gaming suddenly appealed to the Gen X crowd almost exclusively.

And here, in 2020, I can't help but feel like we're coming full circle. Woke, progressive hashtag activism is what's "in," with the target demographic, and I feel like AAA studios are doing what Disney does, but they're better at pulling the wool over consumer's eyes. Red Letter Media coined the term "passive progressive," and I think it fits. These are companies and they want money, so they're casting their net out over Twitter and like minded places, and leaving the old guard to either conform or fade away.

So thoughts? Ideas? Will the trend shift back around to mindless fun and interesting ideas without preaching or moral grandstanding?

I think using the term "woke trend" leaves you wide open to strawman attacks from the usual parade of idiots but otherwise I think that, yes, the current climate in the industry is just a trend.

In the NES era videogames consoles were seen as toys.
Then the Mega Drive came along and the trend was for more "edgy" games aimed at teens and young adults.
This continues really into the PS1 and PS2 eras.
When you come into PS3 era gaming is going mainstream and the Wii is the perfect example of this.
So rolling into the modern era you have this very popular and mainstream hobby that has a history of pandering to "straight white male gamers" but is now wanting to be more mainstream and less like a niche hobby.

So I guess the industry is going through some kind of repentance now. Trying to leave the "attitude era" of videogames behind and have a new era where gaming is openly political and preachy.

I'd be careful though because you can end up making the same mistakes as the "SJWs" if you aren't self aware.
Not every game with a female protagonist is "woke".
The inclusion of gay or trans or whatever other kind of character in not necessarily "woke" either.

I don't think anyone can realistically have an issue with female led games (whether that be in game characters or female led development studios) or games with diverse characters.

However, I think you can look at statements put out there by publishers and developers to get a sense of whether or not you should give them your money.

Then, of course, there is the "message" of the game. This is not super prominent in gaming right now as there are not really so many mainstream releases that are carrying a strong political message. Even recent titles like Spider-Man and Assassin's Creed Odyssey are falling foul of the "woke" crowd for not getting the messaging right.

What you'd be looking for is examples like Mortal Kombat 11 where the actual game developers are putting out statements like "we've grown up and learned to respect women and you know women just wouldn't wear skimpy outfits for fighting" but their game had half naked dudes fighting and basically lives off it's gimmick of over the top crazy and unrealistic violence. Also it's like an admission that they didn't respect women before so this is like their repentance and redemption.

For whatever reason some developers have decided that the way they want to sell their game is by basically saying "we were evil before but we are all good little boys now and our new game is going to piss off our old fans but we don't need them please buy the game".

Down the line it will definitely change again is some way.

 

[Kadve]

I personally think of it as something of a successor to the various feminism waves. Not unlike how every piece of media back in the 70s seemed to have a women complaining her lot in life or how stupid men where.

In other words: Yes it will go away once something else arrives that people can use to get attention.

 

[hyperbertha]

There are definitely some companies looking to capitalize on the trend but there are also an equal amount of developers where you have actual creatives looking to spread their agenda undercover of 'progressiveness'.

This is different from whatever trends shook up gaming in the past because they have all been for marketing reasons and did little to influence the actual product. Woke is entirely politically driven for atleast half of these devs from what I've seen and nothing to do with trends.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

I think using the term "woke trend" leaves you wide open to strawman attacks from the usual parade of idiots but otherwise I think that, yes, the current climate in the industry is just a trend.

In the NES era videogames consoles were seen as toys.
Then the Mega Drive came along and the trend was for more "edgy" games aimed at teens and young adults.
This continues really into the PS1 and PS2 eras.
When you come into PS3 era gaming is going mainstream and the Wii is the perfect example of this.
So rolling into the modern era you have this very popular and mainstream hobby that has a history of pandering to "straight white male gamers" but is now wanting to be more mainstream and less like a niche hobby.

So I guess the industry is going through some kind of repentance now. Trying to leave the "attitude era" of videogames behind and have a new era where gaming is openly political and preachy.

I'd be careful though because you can end up making the same mistakes as the "SJWs" if you aren't self aware.
Not every game with a female protagonist is "woke".
The inclusion of gay or trans or whatever other kind of character in not necessarily "woke" either.

I don't think anyone can realistically have an issue with female led games (whether that be in game characters or female led development studios) or games with diverse characters.

However, I think you can look at statements put out there by publishers and developers to get a sense of whether or not you should give them your money.

Then, of course, there is the "message" of the game. This is not super prominent in gaming right now as there are not really so many mainstream releases that are carrying a strong political message. Even recent titles like Spider-Man and Assassin's Creed Odyssey are falling foul of the "woke" crowd for not getting the messaging right.

What you'd be looking for is examples like Mortal Kombat 11 where the actual game developers are putting out statements like "we've grown up and learned to respect women and you know women just wouldn't wear skimpy outfits for fighting" but their game had half naked dudes fighting and basically lives off it's gimmick of over the top crazy and unrealistic violence. Also it's like an admission that they didn't respect women before so this is like their repentance and redemption.

For whatever reason some developers have decided that the way they want to sell their game is by basically saying "we were evil before but we are all good little boys now and our new game is going to piss off our old fans but we don't need them please buy the game".

Down the line it will definitely change again is some way.

It's that disingenuous element that screams "This is marketing, fall for it!" to me. It usually takes a fair amount of retraining/events contrary to personal belief to get even one person to change their mind about something, but this company with hundreds of people realized overnight the error of their ways? It's easy (and convenient) to listen if it's what you want to hear.

To reiterate, I am all about inclusion and representation, some of my favorite pieces of media are female led, I've enjoyed movies and games featuring casts of all colors of the rainbow and sexualities. I had used "woke trend," in the topic title because I was afraid of the title becoming a little long in the tooth/clickbait.

 

[KungFucius]

The people who whine are just angry and hateful. Who the fuck cares if the lead character is gay or if they include a transexual? People that get bent out of shape over it are the ones with agendas. They get triggered as soon as something they hate gets mentioned because they want to complain and moan about evil liberals ruining something that most people aren't offended by. They are the intellectual descendants of people who got angry when black people tried to eat at restaurants, they lost it when interracial marriages became a thing, and they were responsible for decades of discrimination of gay people, were hard core anti gay marriage and can't handle a fucking game with a gay chick in it without screaming about it for months.

What's worse is now games that have a villain, autocratic leaders are only doing so because of Trump who is unfairly being slandered by the media partners of this evil agenda. It's moronically ignorant, paranoid, hateful and tiresome. You people can't handle diversity in people or diversity in ideas and are threatened by it because you have no confidence in your own opinions because reality continually demonstrates that they are not based on fact. Let it go and worry about something more important, preferably about getting help for the borderline mental health problems that are driving this triggered behavior.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

The people who whine are just angry and hateful. Who the fuck cares if the lead character is gay or if they include a transexual? People that get bent out of shape over it are the ones with agendas. They get triggered as soon as something they hate gets mentioned because they want to complain and moan about evil liberals ruining something that most people aren't offended by. They are the intellectual descendants of people who got angry when black people tried to eat at restaurants, they lost it when interracial marriages became a thing, and they were responsible for decades of discrimination of gay people, were hard core anti gay marriage and can't handle a fucking game with a gay chick in it without screaming about it for months.

What's worse is now games that have a villain, autocratic leaders are only doing so because of Trump who is unfairly being slandered by the media partners of this evil agenda. It's moronically ignorant, paranoid, hateful and tiresome. You people can't handle diversity in people or diversity in ideas and are threatened by it because you have no confidence in your own opinions because reality continually demonstrates that they are not based on fact. Let it go and worry about something more important, preferably about getting help for the borderline mental health problems that are driving this triggered behavior.

This is why I try to be cordial and plant one foot on each side, honestly. Just as I've claimed including a black person/lesbian/whatever in your game and writing them the same as you'd write a white male character for those sweet $$$ is a bunk practice, I'd argue that what you describe is equally/more detrimental to the cause. People shouting slurs and getting red in the face anytime Chris Redfield isn't the protagonist of a title is both embarassing for white people, and possibly hurtful for others.

But I think that it's a symptom of essentially painting some games with acrylic feminism/progressivism. There are bandwagoners involved in everything. When a few people gather together to discuss obvious marketing techniques of pandering to U.S. minorities and the Liberal Left, you'll always have a group that goes "WHAT ABOUT THIS, IT USED TO HAVE A WHITE PERSON, NOW IT HAS A BLACK PERSON, BAWWWWW,"

That's not the issue I have, and it shouldn't be the issue you have, either.

I fucking loved Ellie, Bill, and Jesse in The Last of Us. Barret Wallace was one of my favorite characters in Final Fantasy VII. Lawrence Fishburne's Morpheus out-acted Keanu Reeves' Neo at every opportunity in The Matrix. Sazh Katzroy deserved more than Final Fantasy XIII, and John Boyega's Finn was the most interesting element of episode VII. (That interest died in the ensuing fire of the next two movies.) What is the common thread here?

None of these characters were created or picked to put specific butts in seats. None of these characters were passed around a board room and had pie charts made about them on a white board. They fit into the story, and had a purpose beyond being "the gay guy," "the black guy,"

 

[tsumake]

I think it’s an extension of corporate culture and company politics. These large corporations don’t necessarily look for competent people to fill their ranks - they look for people that will make their middle managers look good. Those people tend to be unimaginative and very willing to follow a trend. That trend now is woke culture. It’s what a generation grew up with and it’s their moral compass.

In order to maintain their peons (which at this point is what they are), they tailor their products to please their woke beliefs. These companies falsely assume their beliefs are what the majority believe and see it adding woke ideas as a win-win strategy.... until it’s not.

Now these companies are in a difficult situation. If they stop adding woke ideas, the peasants revolt. If they continue, they lose money.

Another issue is that woke individuals aren’t afraid of expressing their moral displeasure and demand moral conformity. They will use their beliefs (which is really now a religion) to help advance their careers : “My boss is a racist, how dare you hire a racist, we need a POC (or me) to run the office.” So a company ends up hiring more woke people to please other woke people, to the point where now the C-Suite has a Chief Diversity and Inclusion Officer.

Eventually, money talks and if they lose too much money people will be fired. But that hasn’t happened yet because of the very nature of corporate culture and the current sociopolitical climate.

As for the consumer, they can certainly choose to ignore the ideologically driven choices in their games. Many people do. Personally, I find it enough to be a turn off to avoid modern gaming in general. For example, as a fan of Planescape Torment I have a hard time getting into Torment: Tides of Numenera. It has a wild setting, interesting game mechanics and is very well written but I can’t stomach its woke modernity. Are my sentiments enough to inspire companies to make non-woke games? Who knows?

 

[WellSheet]

What I find frustrating about the “woke” trend isn’t that it’s propping up and showcasing trans, gay, minorities or whatever...it’s that the inclusion of these people often times FEELS forced. Was The Last of Us ANYbvetter because Ellie was gay? Was the sequel any more enriched because Lev was Trans? Conversely, was Uncharted any better because Drake was playboy? (Sorta)...do those qualities matter? Obviously humanity inside of developed characters is only going to make them richer - if done well - but in today’s world, at least outwardly, you have an industry that favors left-leaning ideologies and “wokeness” LANDS on that side of the aisle.

In my experience...these inclusivity attempts rarely feel natural. It’s like you can smell the agenda...and a lot of times this agenda is mixed in with the creative’s socio-politics, and since we live in a world where everyone has a fackin’ soapbox to stand on, you get a majority of far-left liberal types who are very vocal about their ideology and very forward about pushing for this new “woke” status quo.

People Hate being sold. I do sales for a living and it’s a slippery slope. A good salesman is not selling you a product, he is selling you the idea or even himself. Ultimately.

so we get people forcing down their viewpoints on us, which many we may not agree with...but then we’re being told we’re some sort of “phobic” if we don’t want to play, support etc that type of character...

 

[Arkam]

IMO, Yes it is a cycle. Call it Woke, Conservatism, Counter Culture, School Marms or whatever. Its just the cycle/pendulum of power. Different groups trying to exert authority on the majority for their perceived morality that is built out of a previous state of inferiority. Those who gain power, abuse power, which then fuels the next wave of usurpers to repeat. So if we are being positive, we could say that going Woke will eventually foster a period of the true avant garde as a repudiation.

 

[Azurro]

I honestly couldn’t give one single shit to be honest with you.

I think the people who focus and care so much about these kinds of things are more interested in politics than gaming.

SJW’s vs the anti-SJW’s, you’re both one in the same.

How are both positions one and the same? One advocates for the insertion of propaganda into the design of every game and attenpsy to make social pariahs out of anyone that disagrees with the ideology, while another group simply wants the removal of this political propaganda.

Sounds to me like your position is of passive approval of woke propaganda

 

[Carna]

Probably in less than 5 years from now, it will die off. up until the mass has another ideology to latch on towards.

example: if Trump doesn't win the election in november, they are probably going to stop associating the rights of black people with the presidency. and instead just make up some other ideology issue, in order to engage in vitroiol with the other political party.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

True. Pedophilia as well is only shunned by closed minded people. The woke are making progress in making that the norm here in California

Why do people always come up with these ridiculous analogies. Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder and a crime in every society on this planet.

 

[Malakhov]

It tends to go in cycles, now we're into this nonsense and once people will be sick of it, we will go to the opposite. It tends to be that way for many things

 

[Old Retro]

at some of these comments. Don't like something? Don't buy it or ignore it. Or have a heart attack and go on a tirade against companies putting out "woke" media that hurt your sensitive views.

Stay bitter!

 

[TheInfamousKira]

at some of these comments. Don't like something? Don't buy it or ignore it. Or have a heart attack and go on a tirade against companies putting out "woke" media that hurt your sensitive views.

Stay bitter!

I agree that there's a line to tow between disliking something and being petulant, and voting with your wallet is the best bet when it comes to anything that has a price of admission.

However, by the same token, there's been a lot of really insightful, thought out posts in this topic thus far, so I feel it's a wee bit redactive to blanket *all* of it under the umbrella of "bawww QQ,"

This is a forum for enthusiast discussion, remember. It's important to be able to discuss things, whatever the topic, and I for one delight in opposing views because it tests and refines my own. Remember, a forum without differing points of view is an echo chamber, and I'd hate to take traffic from the big purple one over that way. >

 

[Garjon]

It'll go away soon and change to something else. I just hope what replaces it is a bit more sensible and pragmatic.

As a gay fella, I dislike it, woke straight people have told me I should have different thoughts on gay-related discussions than I do. When I posted a long post on the Ion Fury 'controversy' about how it's such a minor thing and kicking up a massive stink about it actually harms more than hinders gay people, I got accused of being self-loathing by straight people.

I like seeing more LGBT characters in games etc but I don't like it when companies go "We put a gay man in our game, look how progressive we are!" or when said gay character is not allowed to have any negative personality traits; the former is patronising as hell and the latter effectively prevents that character from having real depth. It's all just so fake and soulless and a cynical coporate way to get people on Twitter to advertise your game/film etc for free

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

I'm hoping it'll be like the hippies, eventually they had to grow up and join the real world with the rest of us.

 

[Humdinger]

That would be nice (if it were just a passing trend), but I'm not optimistic. This is the outgrowth of a process that has been going on for about 50 years. It has deep roots. I don't think it's going away any time soon.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

How are both positions one and the same? One advocates for the insertion of propaganda into the design of every game and attenpsy to make social pariahs out of anyone that disagrees with the ideology, while another group simply wants the removal of this political propaganda.

Sounds to me like your position is of passive approval of woke propaganda

LOL anti SJWs are just as ridiculous as SJWs. Having a dyke or tranny in a game isn't propaganda.

 

[bitbydeath]

It is here to stay. It will get worse and worse and worse.

Nah, just like Hitler it’s popularity will fade overtime.

 

[njean777]

Yes it is, Most people I talk to play games, even those that don't mesh with gamer culture (gag) and they give no fucks about politics in games or anything of that nature. It will be gone one day and we can get back to having fun and just playing games.

 

[Spinerush]

I enjoyed Woke disc 1 but disc 2 went off the rails