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Random Musing: Is the Woke Trend just part of a cycle?

Faithless83

Banned
I believe I have a different concept of gaming as most people.
I'm not the character and even if the option to make a character presents, I don't choose someone that looks like me. Even on tabletop RPGs, I aimed to be something diferent or impossible in real life, like a wizard. I see it as any other type of storytelling, I'm enjoying something for it's story and gameplay, that's it.

I don't need to be represented in any media whatsoever and I find it weird this desperate need to be a part of "something". When you are in your teens, it's only natural, adults behaving like teens, though... I don't think it's healthy for anyone.

That said, I'm glad japanese devs are unaffected by this "victimization wave" that's plaguing the west.
 

Faithless83

Banned
I despise the entire “woke” movement as it stands not because I’m against diversity, representation or whatnot, but because it promotes collectivism and group identity politics that only serve to draw lines between us further. Individualism is devalued and marginalized in the name of the most superficial of metrics to measure some arbitrary ideal of filling some random quota of equality and fairness. It’s a flawed philosophy from its inception.

I’m making it far more simplistic than it actually is obviously, but yeah. I’m not against wokeness, I am bothered by its current manner of attainment.
I think this was actually on point and not simplistic at all. Sadly the "base" is exactly this. This can also be tied to political views and forms of control to divide people. It's on schools and the next best way to gather attention/influence young people views is on games, movies and so on.

Also points to why the east seems to go unaffected by it. Japanese are too traditional in their on ways to change "what's already working" (some may disagree) and Europe suffered a lot on leftists ideologies to avoid it like the plague.

I'm just sticking to where I believe my money should go, the sooner everyone that's dissatisfied by this do the same, the faster it will go away.
 

Elog

Member
There is very little so called woke agenda. There are only numbers.

In the 50's the market for almost anything outside of the grocery store was white Northern European or North American male in terms of composition. While this is still a big part of the market it is not even the majority anymore. It is all about the numbers.

In the 60s/70s the women entered the market as big decision makers outside the grocery store. It is all about the numbers.

Over the last 40 years, the median consumer has moved from a white male to someone with different skin colour - most likely still a male though. It is all about the numbers.

There are some people driving something you could call a woke agenda. Ultimately though, corporations are just running the numbers - and that has very little to do with 'woke' at all. It is just numbers.

The issue is that if you go to a small town in Sweden (where I live), a 40 something ethnic Swedish guy that works locally has not realised this - that it is all about the numbers - he believes it is a conspiracy and political movement threatening the way of life his dad taught him. Ultimately it is all about the numbers. There is very little conspiracy about this.
 
The idea that in 50 years, people will somehow be more conservative around issues of race, sexuality, gender, is funny.

Especially once genetic engineering and body modifications become more popular.

In 1000 years humans will be considered a completely different species.

Society, culture and humanity itself is constantly evolving. And it's fucking awesome.

Go watch the jetsons. They thought we would be in space flying in bubbles and eating food pills by the 90s. I think you drastically overestimate humans and our abilities. We won't change as much as you think and in 50 years half the world could be Islamic which isn't going to usher in progress...
 
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Let's simplify it... the majority don't want a popular first person shooter, baited and switched, where you must play as Dora the Explorer with acne. Kill this thread with fire.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
Well done for just cutting that sentence from my post to back up your spurious and pointless commentary! *the slowest of handclaps*

The rest of the post didn't explain away the disingenuous strawman you posted prior. My commentary was neither spurious or pointless. Say stupid shit, expect to be called out on it.
I agree that there's a line to tow between disliking something and being petulant, and voting with your wallet is the best bet when it comes to anything that has a price of admission.

However, by the same token, there's been a lot of really insightful, thought out posts in this topic thus far, so I feel it's a wee bit redactive to blanket *all* of it under the umbrella of "bawww QQ,"

This is a forum for enthusiast discussion, remember. It's important to be able to discuss things, whatever the topic, and I for one delight in opposing views because it tests and refines my own. Remember, a forum without differing points of view is an echo chamber, and I'd hate to take traffic from the big purple one over that way. >

There is no point discussing with OldRetro. Dude is a troll.

The people who whine are just angry and hateful. Who the fuck cares if the lead character is gay or if they include a transexual? People that get bent out of shape over it are the ones with agendas. They get triggered as soon as something they hate gets mentioned because they want to complain and moan about evil liberals ruining something that most people aren't offended by. They are the intellectual descendants of people who got angry when black people tried to eat at restaurants, they lost it when interracial marriages became a thing, and they were responsible for decades of discrimination of gay people, were hard core anti gay marriage and can't handle a fucking game with a gay chick in it without screaming about it for months.

What's worse is now games that have a villain, autocratic leaders are only doing so because of Trump who is unfairly being slandered by the media partners of this evil agenda. It's moronically ignorant, paranoid, hateful and tiresome. You people can't handle diversity in people or diversity in ideas and are threatened by it because you have no confidence in your own opinions because reality continually demonstrates that they are not based on fact. Let it go and worry about something more important, preferably about getting help for the borderline mental health problems that are driving this triggered behavior.

Seems like you are the one triggered here, mate.

Please point out the people who associate woke with any introduction/inclusion of minorities. You can't, because there are none. People are bent out of shape with the poor writing that these woke agendas tend to provide. Compare Dragon Age Inquisition's Dorian to The Last of Us' Bill or NieR's Emil. Compare The Last of Us 2's Lev or 2064's Jess to Poison from Final Fight, Erica from Catherine, or JJ from The Missing. Compare how they are written, portrayed, and shown to the player and how much more sense, more care went into the latter titles compared to the former titles.

It has nothing to do with "hating" minority characters like your disingenuous trashfire of a post suggests. It is about having characters first, not tokens first. Bill is a character first and his sexuality is second. That is how it should be. Not like Dorian who is gay first and foremost. Same can be said with characters like Emil, Sylvando, Kaine, Erica, Poison, or JJ. People fell in love with these characters, their issues and turmoils. It is also why so many people despise Dorian, Jess, Lev, etc.

However, given how you seem so clearly poorly informed on the subject, I am not holding my breath on you reading this without handwaving everything away to further push your inane disingenuous narrative.
 
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tsumake

Member
There is very little so called woke agenda. There are only numbers.

In the 50's the market for almost anything outside of the grocery store was white Northern European or North American male in terms of composition. While this is still a big part of the market it is not even the majority anymore. It is all about the numbers.

In the 60s/70s the women entered the market as big decision makers outside the grocery store. It is all about the numbers.

Over the last 40 years, the median consumer has moved from a white male to someone with different skin colour - most likely still a male though. It is all about the numbers.

There are some people driving something you could call a woke agenda. Ultimately though, corporations are just running the numbers - and that has very little to do with 'woke' at all. It is just numbers.

The issue is that if you go to a small town in Sweden (where I live), a 40 something ethnic Swedish guy that works locally has not realised this - that it is all about the numbers - he believes it is a conspiracy and political movement threatening the way of life his dad taught him. Ultimately it is all about the numbers. There is very little conspiracy about this.

What’s your source for this claim?
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
Talk about strawman argument and this is what you reply to that with?

Thanks for bringing to my attention that half my post seems to be missing. Added it back to the post.

As for strawman, what was posted, even without the second half of my post, isn't a strawman. A strawman is, from the dictionary: an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument. Nothing I provided was a strawman, so please try again.
 

ruvikx

Banned
There is very little so called woke agenda. There are only numbers.

In the 50's the market for almost anything outside of the grocery store was white Northern European or North American male in terms of composition. While this is still a big part of the market it is not even the majority anymore. It is all about the numbers.

In the 60s/70s the women entered the market as big decision makers outside the grocery store. It is all about the numbers.

Over the last 40 years, the median consumer has moved from a white male to someone with different skin colour - most likely still a male though. It is all about the numbers.

There are some people driving something you could call a woke agenda. Ultimately though, corporations are just running the numbers - and that has very little to do with 'woke' at all. It is just numbers.

The issue is that if you go to a small town in Sweden (where I live), a 40 something ethnic Swedish guy that works locally has not realised this - that it is all about the numbers - he believes it is a conspiracy and political movement threatening the way of life his dad taught him. Ultimately it is all about the numbers. There is very little conspiracy about this.

And who passed the Hart-Celler act? Who opened borders to mass immigration? Who pushes "white privilege" as a warped racial anti-white variant of the Marxist class struggle? Who pushes the constant media propaganda? Who wants to reduce whites to minorities in their own countries? etc.

All just random accidental numbers which have zero political agenda behind them. Okie-dokie. :messenger_ok:
 

Ten_Fold

Member
Woke culture be like ewww tits and ass is bad, but taking guts out of someone and shooting isn’t bad. I NEVER understood any of that.
 

Azurro

Banned
LOL anti SJWs are just as ridiculous as SJWs. Having a dyke or tranny in a game isn't propaganda.

This is kind of funny, SJW media not only is about putting all sort of rainbow colored people and whatever sex stuff they like. It's the kind of messages they push through their writing, scenarios and characters.

Having a woman as main character isn't woke. Having a woman as a main character that is flawless and throws up woke talking points to the screen is.

Again, this kind of point of view is disingenuous. You approve of woke ideology, you are just annoyed aboht someone pushing back and equating both.
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
The wokeness will stop when there's no more fun in the world and the last white man has taken his last breath.

So it will stay around for a while. Probably forever.
 
This is kind of funny, SJW media not only is about putting all sort of rainbow colored people and whatever sex stuff they like. It's the kind of messages they push through their writing, scenarios and characters.

Having a woman as main character isn't woke. Having a woman as a main character that is flawless and throws up woke talking points to the screen is.

Again, this kind of point of view is disingenuous. You approve of woke ideology, you are just annoyed aboht someone pushing back and equating both.

Woke and anti woke crying over shit in a video game. How about this, if you don't like whatever propaganda message is in a game don't buy it.

Creators should be free to make their games however they want. That means if they want to make all the females half naked with giant boobs, thats fine by me. Or if they want to have dykes and trannys thats ok too. I'm not going to get worked up over something in a video game when I can just go play a different game.
 
Angry outliers. Remember, pedos fall under the woke category, as they try and get it classified as a sexual orientation. I'm sure the parents will agree to that HAHAHA!
 

PrimeTime

Member
As far as my own research into this topic, gaming along with most media has become a form of social engineering - a way to influence the thoughts and beliefs of society at large (ie propoganda). The important thing here is not so much whether you are for/against a particular theme as much as whether you are conscious enough to be aware of the message and come to your own conclusions.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
How are both positions one and the same? One advocates for the insertion of propaganda into the design of every game and attenpsy to make social pariahs out of anyone that disagrees with the ideology, while another group simply wants the removal of this political propaganda.

Sounds to me like your position is of passive approval of woke propaganda

No, it is the “with us or against us”, “guilty by association”, or had wavy statements such as “passive approval of <insert thing you want to accuse the person of but do not have any direct evidence of>”... it is that kind of stuff and aggressive (vigilant warrior) tribal behaviour that makes SJW and anti-SJW alike.

Reacting negatively and pushing back against a certain perceived ideology or society’s norm (being the underdog fighting injustice always helps people fee good and yet hurts critical thinking) does not make you a warrior, but constantly on the lookout and aggressively searching and calling people out with a shoot first and ask later mentality... that is just the same behaviour only fighting for a different banner.

If you see a gay main character and the first reaction is to start an anti politics in games rally or keep posting a certain anal sex screencap chasing all ND mentioning threads fishing for reactions feeling all smug (as if people’s ideas in writings, movies, music, and games never had a space btw :rolleyes:) that is not that dissimilar to an SJW mob starting up a digital protest when they unheard a new protagonist may be a white binary male and/or said something that is similar to something that could have been said by someone not in clear support of ideas supporting D&I.
 
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FunkMiller

Member
The rest of the post didn't explain away the disingenuous strawman you posted prior. My commentary was neither spurious or pointless. Say stupid shit, expect to be called out on it.

People like you are so incredibly see through, it’s quite amazing.

You deliberately cull the parts of someone else’s post you want to use, because it suits your agenda, and makes you feel a big clever boy by being able to insult them.

My post made it clear how irritating and stupid the woke trend is, along with stating that it’s perfectly fine for a game to feature people from minorities. It was a balanced opinion.

The fact you chose to cherry pick one aspect of it so you can bleat on about your strawmen idiocy is very telling of what kind of person you are.

Happily ignored.
 

DJT123

Member
We'll look back on the Woke Generation with bemusement and *shivers* in the coming years. They're Revolutionaries hundreds of years too early.
 
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JimmyRustler

Gold Member
Wokeness trend is here to stay and will not go anywhere. The only thing I can see going away is devs specifally catering to them. But if anyone thinks that things will ge back to how they were before the trend... nope, not going to happen. Writing, especially in video games, will remain a mine field for the devs where they'll constantly have to pay attention to not offend anyone.
 

Dr. Claus

Vincit qui se vincit
People like you are so incredibly see through, it’s quite amazing.

You deliberately cull the parts of someone else’s post you want to use, because it suits your agenda, and makes you feel a big clever boy by being able to insult them.

My post made it clear how irritating and stupid the woke trend is, along with stating that it’s perfectly fine for a game to feature people from minorities. It was a balanced opinion.

The fact you chose to cherry pick one aspect of it so you can bleat on about your strawmen idiocy is very telling of what kind of person you are.

Happily ignored.

>Makes disingenuous comment
>Gets called out on it.
>Runs to the block button after getting triggered.
Very telling what kind of person you are ;D
 
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tsumake

Member
Certain aspects of woke culture will inevitably persist even if the movement is discredited. What those aspects will be remain to be seen.
 
The game will push any agenda the marketing team tells them to. They are cruching the numbers 24/7 and If braindead woke is the way to go, it's just the way it is.

If eating aborted fetuses was the most popular thing right now I think we can all tell what Cyperpunk characters will be dining.
 

tassletine

Member
Yes. The whole world works like this. Right and Left. Swings and roundabouts.
We're heading back into Dudebro territory.
 

Woggleman

Member
Things swing in extremes and eventually there will be a backlash. Personally I am sick of outrage culture on both sides.
 

HonkingTonk

Neo Member
My only hope is that in the future, pandering to the woke will be seen in a similar light to how we look at how games pandered to dudebros during the late 2000s-early 2010s. Though I would sooner share a drink with a dudebro than with someone woke.
 

royox

Member
I would say, stop thinking what’s “woke” what’s not and just enjoy the game for what it is, you either going to enjoy it or not.

I agree, but there's times you can totally feel characters are literally check boxes or tokens just for the sake of pandering some people and that takes me out of the game. Bioware is one of the worst "Woke characters" creators for example. Their characters are almost screaming in your face constantly how LGTBIQRSTW they are pointlessly while the world is burning.
 
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Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
I agree, but there's times you can totally feel characters are literally check boxes or tokens just for the sake of pandering some people and that takes me out of the game. Bioware is one of the worst "Woke characters" creators for example. Their characters are almost screaming in your face constantly how LGTBIQRSTW they are pointlessly while the world is burning.
Well my take is if I like the character and it’s good development, regardless they are LGBT or not then I’m fine with it. I mean I personally had lots of issues with TLOU part 2’s story but I don’t think most my issues have anything to do with being “woke” or not but rather most character’s actions and motivations made zero sense to me.

My point with all this is stop thinking about whole “woke” business just look at the story and the characters and see if you like it, that’s should be your number 1 concern. Even the story or character are not “woke” you can still might end up not liking them.
 
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Woke and anti woke crying over shit in a video game. How about this, if you don't like whatever propaganda message is in a game don't buy it.

Creators should be free to make their games however they want. That means if they want to make all the females half naked with giant boobs, thats fine by me. Or if they want to have dykes and trannys thats ok too. I'm not going to get worked up over something in a video game when I can just go play a different game.
That would be a perfect approach if the woke crowd didn't mob people who disagree with their philosophy and try to force them out of the industry. Amy Hennig supposedly wouldn't play ball with Druckmann's ideology and was forced out of Naughty Dog as a result. Amy Hennig, who was the creative force behind Uncharted 1-3, forced off the franchise she built up because she refused to compromise story for politics. These people value their ideology over a quality end product and it's harming an industry I love. For sure I won't buy games that push wokeness at the expense of story, but to act like I shouldn't speak out about it is ridiculous. If people don't make their voices heard, nothing will change. The people on top will just get justifications for why sales are dropping from the ideologues within. You have to make it clear WHY you're voting with your wallet, or its all for nothing, unless you just want to abandon the industry that is.
 
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jigglet

Banned
I believe the pendulum will swing slightly in other other direction ultimately putting us on a happy medium that's much better than where we are now, but until that point I think we've still got a fair distance yet to fall.

We don't see enough guys that look like this, but I believe we will get there in time:

iu
 
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Clintizzle

Lord of Edge.
Great first post, OP.

I personally don't think the trend is going away anytime soon. It's affecting NeoGaf as well.

I received a several month ban because I made a harmless joke about the woke agenda. It was something along the lines of saying that I was going to play as a gay samurai in a thread asking about what playstyle people are going to do for Ghost of Tsushima.

The bulk of American and European games journalists these day love the woke stuff and can be quite influential to devs who are also having to meet diversity quotas.
 

LockeKappa

Neo Member
Great post? This topic was painfully transparent (I knew you'd eventually bring up TLOU2). Ironic that someone who has never posted on these forums before chooses this divisive topic as their first topic of discussion, meanwhile feigning any true interest in learning about the other side. It's always the person who cries about Left and Right agendas and claims to be in the middle who always brings politics into everything.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
Great post? This topic was painfully transparent (I knew you'd eventually bring up TLOU2). Ironic that someone who has never posted on these forums before chooses this divisive topic as their first topic of discussion, meanwhile feigning any true interest in learning about the other side. It's always the person who cries about Left and Right agendas and claims to be in the middle who always brings politics into everything.

Oh no, my first thread on a video game forum contained a topic related to video games that people typically have an opinion on and proceeded to talk about. OH THE HUGE MANATEE. Bare in mind also that your "leap to conclusions," mat doesn't have a manual about me packaged alongside it. For all the more you know, I could be black, white, hispanic, asian, male, female, straight, gay or some amalgam of any of the above.

Again, I'm like...actually playing TLOU2 right now. So you know...some of the story beats are more relevant in my head than examples I could drum up from Super Mario fucking RPG. But like, if it validates your time spent here to assume I'm a hateful bigot, then I guess we can both be winners today!
 

tsumake

Member
Oh no, my first thread on a video game forum contained a topic related to video games that people typically have an opinion on and proceeded to talk about. OH THE HUGE MANATEE. Bare in mind also that your "leap to conclusions," mat doesn't have a manual about me packaged alongside it. For all the more you know, I could be black, white, hispanic, asian, male, female, straight, gay or some amalgam of any of the above.

Again, I'm like...actually playing TLOU2 right now. So you know...some of the story beats are more relevant in my head than examples I could drum up from Super Mario fucking RPG. But like, if it validates your time spent here to assume I'm a hateful bigot, then I guess we can both be winners today!

We’re on to you, bigot. Recognize your internal misogyny and privilege.
 
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LockeKappa

Neo Member
Oh no, my first thread on a video game forum contained a topic related to video games that people typically have an opinion on and proceeded to talk about. OH THE HUGE MANATEE. Bare in mind also that your "leap to conclusions," mat doesn't have a manual about me packaged alongside it. For all the more you know, I could be black, white, hispanic, asian, male, female, straight, gay or some amalgam of any of the above.

Again, I'm like...actually playing TLOU2 right now. So you know...some of the story beats are more relevant in my head than examples I could drum up from Super Mario fucking RPG. But like, if it validates your time spent here to assume I'm a hateful bigot, then I guess we can both be winners today!

I don't think you're a bigot. I never even implied anything close. I hate to use this term, but projecting much? I just think you're as easily influenced by the same supposed woke narratives you seemingly are against. Either TLOU2 is as woke as everyone says it is (hint, its not) or people are simply using it as a jump off point to get their opinions out in the air regarding the subject. On both ends of the spectrum.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
I don't think you're a bigot. I never even implied anything close. I hate to use this term, but projecting much? I just think you're as easily influenced by the same supposed woke narratives you seemingly are against. Either TLOU2 is as woke as everyone says it is (hint, its not) or people are simply using it as a jump off point to get their opinions out in the air regarding the subject. On both ends of the spectrum.

Projecting? Coming from the poster who with no previous interaction with me came to immediate conclusions about what my goals in posting were, and the things I care about/am interested in. Aha.

And to your second point, like...who cares if I use a recent AAA release to bring up a discussion or series of ideas? This isn't university, I'm not going to get expelled for plagiarism. You've caught me red-handed in the most unbecoming of forum, nay, discourse in general, etiquette: the reviled segueway.
 
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We're in the transitional stage where developers are not sure how to proceed forward. They have smaller groups calling for representation, and a much bigger chunk of the market to still sell things to as well. It's a tightrope walk, and some are falling.

Frankly, I don't think video games are ready to handle some situations they're trying to. I'll use the elephant in the room example, TLOU2. HOORAY! Ellie is a lesbian. Now what? It doesn't impact her character really at all, outside the now infamous "bigot sandwiches" scene. You could easily replace Ellie with a straight man named Evan and nothing would really change. It's because they're shoving a gay character into the lense of a story that is for a straight audience. An audience who would ask things like "so who's the man of the relationship?"

That's a lot of words to say developers going for woke points annoys me, whether they think they're "helping" or just checking off some corporate spreadsheet boxes. They half-ass attempt to appease both sides, and no one ends up happy, except some loud Twitter folk.

(PS TLOU2 is a solid 9/10 game)
 

tsumake

Member
We're in the transitional stage where developers are not sure how to proceed forward. They have smaller groups calling for representation, and a much bigger chunk of the market to still sell things to as well. It's a tightrope walk, and some are falling.

Frankly, I don't think video games are ready to handle some situations they're trying to. I'll use the elephant in the room example, TLOU2. HOORAY! Ellie is a lesbian. Now what? It doesn't impact her character really at all, outside the now infamous "bigot sandwiches" scene. You could easily replace Ellie with a straight man named Evan and nothing would really change. It's because they're shoving a gay character into the lense of a story that is for a straight audience. An audience who would ask things like "so who's the man of the relationship?"

That's a lot of words to say developers going for woke points annoys me, whether they think they're "helping" or just checking off some corporate spreadsheet boxes. They half-ass attempt to appease both sides, and no one ends up happy, except some loud Twitter folk.

(PS TLOU2 is a solid 9/10 game)

I understand what you’re saying, but there is precedent for representation in media, such as books, movies, etc. It’s more about appeasing/portraying things in a “correct” way vs an honest, human manner. That’s the problem.
 

LockeKappa

Neo Member
I understand what you’re saying, but there is precedent for representation in media, such as books, movies, etc. It’s more about appeasing/portraying things in a “correct” way vs an honest, human manner. That’s the problem.

Why does it matter if its honest or human? How many decades did we go with 99% white/straight representation in media? Why is it suddenly an abomination that there is a slight lean in minority representation, even if it doesnt quite represent the exact status quo? A game could be full of non-binary, trans and gay characters to the point it is incredibly off-putting and unrealistic, and we'd still be no more unrealistic than media has been for so long in said representation.

Can we just address this for what it is. It's a politics issue, not a gender/minority representation issue.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
Why does it matter if its honest or human? How many decades did we go with 99% white/straight representation in media? Why is it suddenly an abomination that there is a slight lean in minority representation, even if it doesnt quite represent the exact status quo? A game could be full of non-binary, trans and gay characters to the point it is incredibly off-putting and unrealistic, and we'd still be no more unrealistic than media has been for so long in said representation.

Can we just address this for what it is. It's a politics issue, not a gender/minority representation issue.

It's definitely a political issue for me, but not so much a "left is full of SJWs and the right is full of Nazis," way, more like...

The Liberals control a vast swath of mainstream media in their current incarnation. Twitter, 24 hour news networks, film and gaming are all on the same general ideological wavelength. Which is FINE, until it starts tying the hands of creators. Make the gayest, blackest, most trans piece of fiction you want, hell, I'll buy two copies, but if every creator has to adhere to a checklist, it tows a line between being fair and being censorship. A story all about white straight dudes should ALSO be fine, but more and more we're moving the goalposts as a society and things like that are beginning to be deemed ignorant, or hateful by omission.
 

LockeKappa

Neo Member
It's definitely a political issue for me, but not so much a "left is full of SJWs and the right is full of Nazis," way, more like...

The Liberals control a vast swath of mainstream media in their current incarnation. Twitter, 24 hour news networks, film and gaming are all on the same general ideological wavelength. Which is FINE, until it starts tying the hands of creators. Make the gayest, blackest, most trans piece of fiction you want, hell, I'll buy two copies, but if every creator has to adhere to a checklist, it tows a line between being fair and being censorship. A story all about white straight dudes should ALSO be fine, but more and more we're moving the goalposts as a society and things like that are beginning to be deemed ignorant, or hateful by omission.

Then we agree on most things.
 

tsumake

Member
Why does it matter if its honest or human? How many decades did we go with 99% white/straight representation in media? Why is it suddenly an abomination that there is a slight lean in minority representation, even if it doesnt quite represent the exact status quo? A game could be full of non-binary, trans and gay characters to the point it is incredibly off-putting and unrealistic, and we'd still be no more unrealistic than media has been for so long in said representation.

Can we just address this for what it is. It's a politics issue, not a gender/minority representation issue.

Well, if you care more about representation than a presentation and exploration of the human condition, that’s your prerogative. Just don’t forget to go to Sunday School.
 

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
What agenda?

It seems that certain camps will take "any representation beats no representation, even if it's cookie cutter Hollywood levels of transparent in its usage versus being authentic and cooked into the narrative," and honestly, as an outsider looking in, I can understand the sentiment, though I don't necessarily agree with it.

I would think that you would want the best, most accurate portrayal of your respective gender/race/sexual orientation possible to further drive home the point that *we're all just people* but where others see progress, I see pandering, and I suppose that's a personal issue stemming from my overly pessimistic view about the entertainment industry. I feel like in a lot of cases these are just larger performative displays of tokenism. Maybe the role is larger than a side character now, maybe the screen time is longer, but something about a lot of it just feels hollow.

But I see a lot of people go straight to "you're just made that x and x is getting any screen time at all! You're an -ist!" and like...that's probably true for some people, but what gets me is how manufactured it feels, like I can almost see the Disney/Naughty Dog/CorporationX logo branded on every character. In a story, in a fictional world, nothing is more immersion breaking than seeing the committee checklist seams pop up in the middle of the scene. It makes it painfully apparent that the entertainment industry is becoming more "industry," and less "entertainment," and I value authenticity in all things, especially something as volatile as representation.
 
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