Diddy Kong
Banned
Can't believe Nintendo would leave their good friends Rebellion in the dark
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Rebellion still in the dark on Nintendo NX: "I know no more about NX than you do."
- Thread starter Zombie James
- Start date
Why is this unusual? They're obviously trying to keep the NX under wraps so they're not going to be handing out information to every dev available. Clearly they've done a good job at keeping the NX a secret since it's likely less than 12 weeks until it's unveiled and we barely know anything. What's a few more weeks really? Obviously the devs closer to Nintendo are already working on projects. Nintendo has bad third party support yes, but most of the people complaining about not knowing anything weren't likely going to develop anything anyway.
If Rebellion makes their games with 3rd party middleware, then there's no benefit. If they're using their own engine then yeah, they need to talk to them.
Yeah Nintendo doesn't need Rebellion because they have all the other publishers on board like Activision, EA, Ubisoft etc. that released and supported with countless games their 2 previous consoles Wii-WiiU. So who needs the tiny guys when you have the support of the big guys? Right?
Orniletter
Banned
mid sized Indie developers are absolutely the worst as far as secrecy of information is concerned, so yes, it makes sense.
Theanine3D
Member
I think people don't realize just how super easy Nintendo has made it to register into their indie program.
If they gave info to every single developer, I could see a scenario where you'd start seeing non-developers register into the program just so they could receive insider info and leak it to the outside, with no intention of actually making or releasing a game. Nintendo would have to drastically tighten the requirements for their indie program, and that would be a loss for all of us.
They use their own inhouse technology.
Nintendo's problem with the big guys is how their hardware was incompatible with the present and future reality of engine development for these companies. Releasing AnvilNext, Snowdrop, Frostbite, UE4 titles on last gen class hardware and software is ridiculous.
Fair enough, the least they could do then is at least talk about hardware and software targets and theoretical architectures and how it'd be conducive to the future of their engine development.
There are numerous developers around the world who have successful franchises. Nintendo is not gonna travel the world and court/romance every single one of them and give them access to NX plans.
If Rebellion don't know then they're lower on Nintendo's priority than other devs. Simple.
Leafhopper
Banned
Well not every developer gets a dev kit initially anyway right?
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Basically this.
You are acting as if Nintendo has got closer friends around than Rebellion.
Coffee Dog
Banned
If you like their games why would you want them to go software only? No money in platformers and Pikmin in the AAA space, we'd be getting splatoon and open world games like everybody else.
I didn't know the NX had an official blow-out announcement. Are you from the future?
The point was that the internals and guts (aside from RAM) were all pretty much known in their entirety for the PS4/X1 long before announcement and unveiling. The NX is a complete mystery box and there's a LOT of prying into that, particularly with interviews like this towards developers who... may not even be on the best standing with Nintendo. (And no, no company is going to send out dev kits to everyone, especially not pre-release kits which are limited. Not even the PS4 magically had kits sent out to every developer before the full-open in June/July for the public kits.)
People who know or have kits are NOT going to take interviews like this. Its simple logic. The fact that people can't realize this is absolutely baffling. No developer with a kit is going to take an interview like this. None. They want to keep their jobs.
Prior to unveiling and official public announcement, the only interviews you'll see will be from developers without kits and it will echo.
Yep, that's fair enough.
Fun fact, I worked on the original Sniper Elite, and shortly after it was released (in 2005!) our producer started on plans for Sniper Elite 2 - the plan - right from the outset - was to iterate on the franchise.
V2 came out in 2012. The gap wasn't meant to be that long. What happened?
I need to highlight from this point on - this is hearsay. I may be doing people a disservice here, but it is what I had the impression of what was going on at the time.
Sniper Elite 1 went through a period of development hell. A chunk of that was down to the publishers we went through; our original publisher went bust and we had to shop it around to a new one, with renegotiated deals, and an awkward limbo period in-between. I got the impression management were a bit frustrated by this, I believe the project was close to being axed a couple of times.
I bounced from project to project, but throughout it all, our producer was working on Sniper Elite 2 plans. For years. And yet, there seemed to be little or no headway - it was always his pet project, but it never seemed to be going forwards.
I don't know why there was no progress - I don't think it was actively seeking a publisher, I don't believe it had got even that far. After working on Sniper Elite I went through something like four or five different projects, seen through to completion, without any sign of life from SE2 - and as far as I'm aware, the producer in question wasn't doing much other stuff. I think there was a vague expectation that when SE2's project plan was ready, those of the original team who were still around would have been reassembled.
Fast forward to 2010, and a major project planned for Square Enix fell through... and redundancies were needed. I got hit by them, and I believe the original producer did as well. And then, a year later... Sniper Elite V2 was announced.
The timings involved did suggest a few theories as to what went down; I can't speak for which, if any, were true. My biggest suspicion is that our producer just... didn't produce anything of substance for protracted lengths of time, and the redundancies were a convenient opportunity to clear the decks and push something forward more rapidly. This is perhaps borne out a little by the fact that I remember hearing suggestions that our producer's original SE2 was partly going to be focussed on the Africa campaign - and after the reboot of the plans, V2 was largely similar settings to the first game, but III was indeed the Africa campaign.
I don't know. I have suspicions, but I don't know. I'd like to know, mind! SE1's probably the gaming project I was ultimately proudest of having worked on, and I'd have liked to have been involved with the sequels.
This is a wonderful summary of why Sony and Microsoft have huge third party support and Nintendo doesn't.
I answered this question already.
Selfish way of thinking :/
MR ARCADE FOREVER
Member
Nintendo being Nintendo
Apart from the fact that we have a very credible rumor from Trev saying NX is 2016, alongside Wii U and 3DS-lineups that is currently 100% on point, and with everything since pointing heavily towards it being correct (the new Pokémon-project was indeed codenamed "Niji", for instance).
Also, survey Nintendo's recent behaviour around Wii U. Kimishima talking very optimistically about 3DS in the next period ("oh, we have several big unannounced titles", "important part of the next fiscal year" etc.), while with Wii U he was way more coy; the big focus in their recent Nintendo Direct on 3DS while the Wii U was given a shorter section mostly dedicated to small updates to already released games, or more details on already announced stuff. That thing is gone this year. It's my belief, and it's not confirmed, but it's hardly as speculatory as you seem to think.
Breaking news random low tier console dev doesn't have dev kit for super secret handheld that hasn't even been officially unveiled.
I mean.. cmon guys? Intentionally keeping devs in the dark? Worst bomb since sega saturn? Someone plucked some random ass dev out of the air and asked if they had dev kits. Even if they did they'de be under a strict NDA and probably wouldn't even be able to acknowledge they did. We don't know even if Nintendo has final hardware at this point.
Hopefully they at least have the dev's behind Dragon Fantasy Book I if they haven't given them a free dev kit with the system coming out next month then they're obviously screwed.
I mean.. cmon guys? Intentionally keeping devs in the dark? Worst bomb since sega saturn? Someone plucked some random ass dev out of the air and asked if they had dev kits. Even if they did they'de be under a strict NDA and probably wouldn't even be able to acknowledge they did. We don't know even if Nintendo has final hardware at this point.
Hopefully they at least have the dev's behind Dragon Fantasy Book I if they haven't given them a free dev kit with the system coming out next month then they're obviously screwed.
Lol, well said. It's like people think Nintendo has all the support they want and they are in a position to choose who will be on board and who won't. They need everyone not some.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
I've never heard of this company until now.
Isn't his summary correct for pre-release. Neither company gave every developer under the sun a kit, that didn't happen until much later in the year when the public dev kits became readily available.
So isn't this a faulty comparison? (Even if it is actually ultimately true, I just don't think the timeframe comparison is a good one.)
lol.
Bots are better than you
Banned
Huh, and i thought the reasons were underpowered hardware, exotic and more difficult to work with tools and hardware, missing support from widely used game engines, barebones online infrastructure and being trapped in a circle of death about not having enough hardware sales in order to get more games in order to get more hardware sales.
Zombie James
Banned
That's the issue right there. Nintendo can't afford to split developers into high-tier and low-tier, if that's what they're doing. They need to be inclusive and get as many developers on board as possible.
GabeTheGrouch76
Member
Isn't this kinda approaching MS's situation completely in a vacuum, though? It's not like the Xbox One has virtually no flaws and it still got trounced by the PS4 just because. Especially compared to the previous generation where the 360 was giving the PS3 (which had its own share of problems out the gate) a run for its money for the first half of the generation (if not worldwide, most certainly in the US and UK) and the two largely ended it neck-and-neck in terms of sales. With people even expecting the PS brand to be on its last legs in that instance. Crazy to think of that now, but hindsight can be a card.
MS has shifted from directly competing with Sony in the console space to shifting towards Xbox as a sort of service on a Windows platform, but I'm sure that could be attested more towards the Xbox One having a lot of millstones around its neck that hampered its performance compared to the PS4, rather than the Xbox One putting up an even fight and losing the match to the PS4 regardless.
first of all, aren't NDA's always "tight"? Is there such a thing as a "loose" NDA? I'm sure all the PS4 and Xbone stuff that got leaked was also NDA'd.... but they were talking to so many people that something was bound to get leaked out there. This doesn't seem to be the case with NX.
secondly, this isn't about gaming forums. Sony had fully unveiled their new console (that is currently dominating in sales!) in February 2013, leading to the launch in November 2013. Shit was leaking like crazy in the months before that, because clearly Sony was talking to EVERYONE behind the scenes and filling them in on their new console.
We have a very different story for NX. I'm not saying you HAVE to do the PS4 strategy to be successful... but I think it would be wise. They "did their own thing" with Wii U and look how that turned out for them. The more they stay quiet on this thing, both behind the scenes and to the public, the more it hurts them. I think Nintendo would be crazy to wait until E3 to unveil NX. There should be a separate unveil event in April or May at the very latest.
Sony did this with PS4 and it's working out just fine for them.
nintendo is in no position to be picking and choosing
Is still the same once it's officially revealed things will change.
It sucks that Nintendo is having everything under wraps, but even if they had every developer and publisher signed; they wouldn't be able to even confirm they 're working on it because of NDAs.
Hopefully April 27 will bring...something.
It sucks that Nintendo is having everything under wraps, but even if they had every developer and publisher signed; they wouldn't be able to even confirm they 're working on it because of NDAs.
Hopefully April 27 will bring...something.
Yeah, DICE didn't get pissed due to a lack of conversation AFAIK. More that the idea of Frostbite development on this hardware and software platform was ridiculous.Huh, and i thought the reasons were underpowered hardware, exotic and more difficult to work with tools and hardware, missing support from widely used game engines, barebones online infrastructure and being trapped in a circle of death about not having enough hardware sales in order to get more games in order to get more hardware sales.
Father_Brain
Banned
Huh, and i thought the reasons were underpowered hardware, exotic and more difficult to work with tools and hardware, missing support from widely used game engines, barebones online infrastructure and being trapped in a circle of death about not having enough hardware sales in order to get more games in order to get more hardware sales.
Those things are all symptoms of NCL failing to prioritize third-party concerns, though.
Orniletter
Banned
Rebellion+ the Ori studio = "most developers"
Nintendo literally can't afford to give every random ass dev under the sun a free dev kit for a system that hasn't even been officially unveiled I mean come on the losses on that would be insane.
Do you seriously think Nintendo should up and ship a (probably not even final hardware) dev kit to every developer that's ever released a console game in history?
Which everyone should know by now. Nintendo gives no fucks when it comes right down to it. How is this not super obvious to everyone? Decades backing it up. They'll probably run yet another dev reel at E3 where devs who are never gonna make a game for the NX will tell everyone how cool the NX is. Are we gonna act surprised when the NX gets no support and the support it does get is slapped together garbage? How many decades must this same cycle occur before it becomes "business as usual" to even casual observers?
Yeah I agree, it is. But the 12 year old Nintendo loyalist inside me died several years ago along with any remaining dreams of Nintendo returning to its former glory of the NES/SNES era.
Nowadays my primary concern is making ends meet, and having to shell out $300 to play the newest Mario is becoming a luxury that I simply cannot afford.
Sniper Elite 3 was announced for PS4 on March 14th, 2013, so we're already past the point where Rebellion obviously had kits assuming a Fall 2016 system.
While this is true, going around and courting developers very early would presumably result in them actually making a system to their needs unless they were just going to ignore all their feedback.Huh, and i thought the reasons were underpowered hardware, exotic and more difficult to work with tools and hardware, missing support from widely used game engines, barebones online infrastructure and being trapped in a circle of death about not having enough hardware sales in order to get more games in order to get more hardware sales.
Yes, but that's still rather selfish "I can't afford X, so company Y needs to fail so I can then afford X"
Gaming is a luxury product, not something we need, so it's not like you NEED to play Mario
I think it's fair to say that Nintendo needs to take the concerns of Western middleware developers and big publishers into account. If you do develop the platform with DICE, Massive, Epic, etc in mind, does it matter if they talk to Rebellion? If the platform is conducive for Frostbite, UE4, and Snowdrop development, would other developers have issues with it?
Why are people here trying to equate having discussions and informing developers about the system to sending developers a devkit
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
I can see why TBH. Sniper Elite V2 was kinda the poster child for everything wrong with Wii U third party support. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-05-30-wii-u-sniper-elite-v2-lacks-online-play-and-dlc
Late, expensive, missing tons of features from other versions which had already been out for months.
Late, expensive, missing tons of features from other versions which had already been out for months.
Aaronrules380
Member
Have you considered that they paid for that, but weren't willing to do the same for NX?
Papacheeks
Banned
I think he's mainly saying that he wants a better justification to spend 300$ on console to play just Mario.
And that's been Nintendo's problem and will be a problem if outside software support, is only a couple third party games they actually paid for.
Sure, but as I noted, these companies pick and choose who gets pre-release/pre-public kits. So... this doesn't actually say anything to my point other than Rebellion is viewed differently in such a scenario.
As I noted, we're not going to hear from developers who have kits but those who don't as they are not NDA bound. (And its hard to announce a game for a system that hasn't been unveiled, again, not applicable to the example you provided.)
This whole scenario feels like an attempt to state that the absence of evidence is the evidence of absence, when there are obvious and very potent legal checks that prevent the presence of evidence.