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Reddit: The gutting of Destiny's story
- Thread starter Imru al-Qays
- Start date
I doubt we're going to get a Weekes statement or anything like that. Should be interesting if the Press Sneak Fucks can dig something up on this.
If true, I don't know if Bungie can fix this without a serious overhaul. They need a strong lead writer come and completely take control of the writing.
If true, I don't know if Bungie can fix this without a serious overhaul. They need a strong lead writer come and completely take control of the writing.
If I can speculate off of 404 and some of the play tester feedback, I suspect that the rift began with the play test stuff. I think that Bungie got nervous about doing a true MMO, and burned by negative reactions in the play tests ("They're fucked", etc.) they decided to massively scale back to something simpler and less MMOish, while also cutting the poorly received story. They didn't have time, so they cut any major MMOish feature, planning on players communicating via console party chat as well as excising as much of the story they could.
This would also explain why they were so insistent that they're not an MMO; The new vision was to run as far from that stuff as possible.
They weren't.
I understand. However - and that's just my personal opinion, nothing more - being believable is not enough for me to actually believe in something. If, for some reason, evidence cannot be provided to sustain claims and arguments, I'm sorry, but I can't assume such claims as truth.
As do I. I wonder if the info Schreier is piling up corroborates the recent theories or not.
Just now catching up on all this. Absolutely fascinating. Wouldn't surprise if a lot of this happened.
A damn shame at the end of the day, though. And whether or not these theories are true doesn't change the fact that Destiny feels woefully incomplete in a variety of ways (story and the development of Destiny's universe being chief among them).
A damn shame at the end of the day, though. And whether or not these theories are true doesn't change the fact that Destiny feels woefully incomplete in a variety of ways (story and the development of Destiny's universe being chief among them).
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
If this is true this is just a huge wasted potential
Destiny could've been something truly great, but right now if feel like we just got the bones because all th meat was canned.
I doubt the lack of story and stuff is fixable with DLC.
Maybe if they'll release huge DLC packs for free with hours of story content and new planets, but I doubt that.
Destiny could've been something truly great, but right now if feel like we just got the bones because all th meat was canned.
I doubt the lack of story and stuff is fixable with DLC.
Maybe if they'll release huge DLC packs for free with hours of story content and new planets, but I doubt that.
It really would make a shitload of sense. Game was testing horribly and they panicked. I wonder if they had something a lot more substantial for that initial announcement but due to the direction change, couldn't show anything off.
When exactly did Staten leave? I'm curious when his departure date is compared to that empty press announcement.
9/24 last year was the announcement that he left.
JumpJeff84
Member
People that are waiting for 'evidence', really, why is that so important?
Nothing being claimed here in this story is extraordinary. This does not fall under the whole 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence' category. Everything that's been posited as what happened seems like exactly what anyone would assume based on the game as it is, as it was, and as it was talked about.
Skepticism is good, but really, there's nothing here that seems unlikely...
Nothing being claimed here in this story is extraordinary. This does not fall under the whole 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence' category. Everything that's been posited as what happened seems like exactly what anyone would assume based on the game as it is, as it was, and as it was talked about.
Skepticism is good, but really, there's nothing here that seems unlikely...
Staten was the one doing the demo at E3 where they went through the intro level.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXTXPe7JIUk
KnightHart
Member
The PvP mode in Destiny is a fucking joke compared to its competitors. It feels so unbelievably bare bones. There isn't much to get into with it to begin with.
I'll believe these leaks though. The 'new' vision for Destiny that was supposedly scrunched together 7 months before release isn't so much a vision as it is just shortsighted nothingness. The Destiny we have now might as well not have a story at all... Because there isn't one within the game. Or there barely is one.
What Destiny was supposed to be would probably have made Destiny worth the hype for a lot of people. Sounds incredible what they wanted to do. All this talk of faction storylines, a more fleshed out story about the Traveler and Speaker being more involved. It does sound like an epic story.
They literally brought everything to square one and left it at that.
PS: Our options don't seem very good either. It's either we don't believe these leaks and just accept whatever fucking shit Destiny is now, or we believe them and still accept whatever shit it is now. Destiny in the end still ended up as a really little above average game. I just hope that really gets through to the devs at Bungie that they made a really average game and nothing more.
Evidence is important, especially if you are not satisfied with peddling a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Hmm. I really would love a rough date of when the decision to cut back came around. The press announcement might had always been planned to be a teaser.
m_shortpants
Member
I played through it but I wouldn't say I enjoyed it. The story or lack of really kills it for me.
The fact that I played through the entire game not knowing what in the hell an Exo, the race of my character, actually is should tell anyone how bad they messed up.
It really is bizarre because the few cut scenes they do have at an attempt for exposition seem so out of place it always shocked me that my character actually spoke, or even had a sense of humor.
I'd believe the story from OP going off of how butchered it seems.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Question, this is the second game that has had a pretty horrible development that came out of Bungie.
We know Halo 2 was FUBAR and they basically hit the panic button less then a year before release, and it seems like Destiny shared the same fate.
How did the other games go development wise? Cause while it's not a "pattern" per say, it's a repeat of past behavior.
We know Halo 2 was FUBAR and they basically hit the panic button less then a year before release, and it seems like Destiny shared the same fate.
How did the other games go development wise? Cause while it's not a "pattern" per say, it's a repeat of past behavior.
Captain Tuttle
Member
The cutting of the Rasputin content breaks my heart, that disembodied voice when they first discover him is fantastic.
The reddit rumors are in line with my speculation and assumptions. The whole thing about different races having different intros would have made so much sense. As it is, you don't even get to know what the fuck an Awoken or EXO is.
I'll of course maintain skepticism at the rumors, but I'm not going to discount them.
I'll of course maintain skepticism at the rumors, but I'm not going to discount them.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
lolz
I can't say I'm surprised, but judging from the storyline that is getting talked about for the game originally, I actually prefer the direction they went in. I would've liked a more fleshed out story, but the one they had planned
seems like something a teenager would come up with.
the traveler is eeeevil, zomg so original... not
It's interesting that you seem to find a lack of certainty notable in this situation, as opposed to how persuaded many are that 404A is saying the complete truth.
Why are some people denying the reddit rumors? If they aren't true does that mean Destiny as we have it was Bungie's original vision? There's just no way. Any mission from any Halo is probably more interesting than any mission in Destiny. Enemies were placed strategically and there were enough enemy types to keep combat interesting. The enemies I've seen so far are elite style enemies from Halo.
Art Vandilay
Member
Haha this is sad. But true.
Does there really need to be a reason to show skepticism? GAF's habit of taking "insiders" at face value is enough reason to be vocal about how flimsy the Reddit rumors are.
I believe parts of this. Bungie did it before with Halo 2. Shoot higher than they can realistically perform, and grossly underdeliver.
Sure, Activision probably put pressure on them to meet a deadline, but to be fair they dont have forever to wait around on this game. Bungie over-promised, under-delivered, and now we get to pay for missing content in the form of DLC.
Sure, Activision probably put pressure on them to meet a deadline, but to be fair they dont have forever to wait around on this game. Bungie over-promised, under-delivered, and now we get to pay for missing content in the form of DLC.
vpance
Member
God damn did Bungie ever shit their pants on this game. I think the franchise is still salvageable though, given that most of the uproar is contained online, as it usually is. Everyone essentially bought the beta, funded their framework, and now they can take their time in creating polished content for the sequel. Then slap on a bigger marketing budget and call it a day.
This doesn't suggest overambition at all, though. It suggests a shift in development direction/vision. Those two things are distinctly different.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
We're gonna have to see about the longevity of the "casual" market when it comes to this game. Will they be willing to get the expansions, or will they move on before they are released? How much goodwill was tarnished? It's not just the hardcore that are giving backlash. This isn't a situation where a month after "THE BEST GAME EVER" came out people forget about the hype and critically analyze specific parts.
This game was panned from many people from the start, not even the hype could prevent or delay it, which I think says something to the quality of the game in general.
Zomba13
Member
Lol whereas the one where the big round space Jesus is super good and the ugly aliens are bad isn't?
JumpJeff84
Member
Is there a backlash against this game in the mainstream? I honestly don't know. If there is, that's pretty interesting. Do you have any specific examples or anecdotes? I'm genuinely curious...
recklesscognition
Member
I think 404 is legit, and the lead writer was canned because he wanted to pursue his story and the higher ups didn't. They then took over from above and made everyone re-do the story but being that they had no idea what they were doing, it was all messed up.
NeOak
Member
Can anyone share more about this?
I haven't played Destiny since the beta but this thread has been fascinating to follow. It'll be interesting to see what Destiny looks like six months from now, and I wonder how newcomer friendly it will still be after a couple of expansions are out. I don't see myself jumping in now that other games are coming out until we see how this is going to shake out.
I'm not saying what the chap is saying is legit or otherwise - but it feels to me like a lot of people are really hoping it isn't.
True or otherwise - there's a lot missing in Destiny, and no amount of "but the story makes sense!" or "these things happen!" will explain it away. People want to know what's missing and why.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Anecdote but some of the guys at work were talking and one said "you getting Destiny" and another said "nah hear its kinda boring" and the others agreed
*shrug*
Omnistalgic
Member
no way to know without Bungie telling us really.
Game sold 4.5 million copies across platforms though.
So there is a large audience. We just dunno if people are still playing it or not. Personally, I don't think the backlash is as critical for more casual gamers, but there's no denying, no matter how much games you play, the obvious lack of story compared to other sci-fi shooters.
JumpJeff84
Member
Ha ha, there you go!
Monocle
Member
Fascinating stuff, even if it can't be verified. Assuming even a fraction of that is true, what a colossal clusterfuck. It seems as though Bungie veterans like Joe Staten were right to jump ship when they did. (I'm sure some people were forced out too.)The story so far with alleged Bungie insider 404Architect.
JumpJeff84
Member
The interesting part about this whole thing is how different it is from other high-profile development clusterfucks.
Look at Daikatana, or Duke Nukem Forever. The two examples that come to mind, and both were financial disasters after all was said and done.
Destiny however has already made back all its money and then some (in a few days) and broken sales records. It'll be interesting to see how damaged the brand is in the long run, or if people will even care.
Look at Daikatana, or Duke Nukem Forever. The two examples that come to mind, and both were financial disasters after all was said and done.
Destiny however has already made back all its money and then some (in a few days) and broken sales records. It'll be interesting to see how damaged the brand is in the long run, or if people will even care.
I think someone correctly made the call a year ago that polishing that much content is impossible and they had top pare back to basics and iterate from there.
I think D3 had a similar problem. At some point you need to take what you got, polish it up and push it out the door and if you don't you will just become a money pit (Bio shock Infinity?).
So it might be nice to ponder what could have been but you can only create so much before economics makes you push it out the door. I think blizzard and valve are the only companies that can look at 7 years or work and go 'fuck it' and cancel.
Activision have yet to release any sales data, so the 4.5m number is an assumption. Personally, I don't think Destiny has sold over 5m yet.
It could suggest either. Also, a shift in direction/vision can occur due to being unable to meet original ambitions.
XANDER CAGE
Member
The gutting of the story is the worst part of the whole thing, especially given the weird way the Grimoire is now handled. I was actually thinking of making a thread dedicated to cherry-picking the Grimoire stuff that isn't hot garbage - there's actually some really cool stuff buried in there, you just need to wade through mountains of The Bullshit to get there.
404Architect's stuff kinda goes along with what I figured was the case when we went so long without hearing anything about the game + Joe Staten leaving the company.
A freaking shame if that's all true. But from what I can tell, Bungie is working their asses off to make things right. I just hope it's enough.
A freaking shame if that's all true. But from what I can tell, Bungie is working their asses off to make things right. I just hope it's enough.
FrostForged
Neo Member
I wish I could say any of this shocked me. The story is just so incredibly bad. What the heck is going on at Bungie? Leader writer bolts. They fire Marty. Guess maybe the grass isn't always greener independent.
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