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[Deadstar]

The interesting part about this whole thing is how different it is from other high-profile development clusterfucks.

Look at Daikatana, or Duke Nukem Forever. The two examples that come to mind, and both were financial disasters after all was said and done.

Destiny however has already made back all its money and then some (in a few days) and broken sales records. It'll be interesting to see how damaged the brand is in the long run, or if people will even care.

It sold on Bungie's reputation alone. It's the next series by the studio that brought you such titles as Halo. The beta was crap but I bought the full game hoping it had to be much more. I was wrong. The "Mass Effect in space" had me laughing. It's mass effect in space alright, if you take out the story, interesting characters, great dialogue, space exploration and awesome powers.

The pax panel had me interested because the guys seemed a little too somber. You'd think they'd be really excited to get this game out but they kept saying "tell us what we did wrong."

 

[x-Lundz-x]

Based on how he game turned out story wise, I an leaning towards 404architect to be legit. which is a shame because the game is still a lot of fun but it's very disappointing to hear about all this cut story and content.

 

[Maintenance]

huh. disappointed. as fuck.

I'll wait for the Wii U port.

I'll wait for the Ouya GOTY port.

Spoiler

On topic: if what this 404 guy/girl said is true, then wow, what a shame.

 

[Steel]

I think someone correctly made the call a year ago that polishing that much content is impossible and they had top pare back to basics and iterate from there.

I think D3 had a similar problem. At some point you need to take what you got, polish it up and push it out the door and if you don't you will just become a money pit (Bio shock Infinity?).

So it might be nice to ponder what could have been but you can only create so much before economics makes you push it out the door. I think blizzard and valve are the only companies that can look at 7 years or work and go 'fuck it' and cancel.

Well, if this wasn't one of the highest budget titles in years, you might be on to something. And while others may disagree with me, I really don't feel like the content that they kept was polished, considering the repetitive mission design, blown up models of smaller enemies on the bullet sponge bosses, bounties for game modes that don't exist, materials that have no use, etc.

 

[AndersTheSwede]

Sounds exceedingly plausible. In particular how the 1st mission with the climbing Fallen and much more atmospheric design, that never appear again, is a remnant of the previous vision.

Very disappointing that people like Joe lost this internal battle. As that was certainly preferable to the utter abortion of a story we that got. At least a bare modicum of context and suspense would have gone a long way.

 

[GodofWine]

This is an amazing story...so they shifted from something pushing boundries, to a far less well written borderlands with a space COD tacked on as multiplayer.

Brilliant.

This is the best thing that could happen to COD:AW..new IP is a dud, people go back to 'old reliable'. (conspiracy /s)

 

[John Rabbit]

lol i completely forgot about the intro part with the trip mines and Fallen climbing. jesus.

 

[MrAnderson]

So they introduce all the different races though dlc and add better missions? It doesn't make sense. If they could make better missions on disc they would have. I would gladly pay for DLC that fixes the main game because what I got is a good game, not a GREAT game. Right now Destiny is average at best but it can be so much more and I want to get the most out of the game.

They would do this simply for the fact that they can. Much like how ME3 locked Javik behind DLC on day one that was on the disc. Much like how they also made better information about the main antagonist of the game locked behind DLC. If they truly changed as much as been said that they have, player driven economy, character trades, story line entirely, faction integration etc etch, then they had better everything but decided to toss it last minute. I can easily see Activision saying "Yes, this game is going to sell gangbusters! People will be mad for a minute then eat up the DLC and make us even more money!!!!" maniacal laughing ensues.

 

[JumpJeff84]

The pax panel had me interested because the guys seemed a little too somber. You'd think they'd be really excited to get this game out but they kept saying "tell us what we did wrong."

I was at PAX but missed that panel. Wish I'd seen it- woulda been interesting especially in light of everything that's occurred since release

 

[Velikost]

The story is such a joke and this video captures how lame it is.

Should be its own thread.

It amazes me how consistently unfunny mega64 gets as time goes on.

 

[saunderez]

I don't really buy this 404architect is for real. He/she says he can't speak for team morale at Bungie yet he's supposed to be an employee. That really triggers my bullshit detector, Why would he/she be able to reveal all of this information and not be able to speak for team morale?

 

[Monocle]

I don't really buy this 404architect is for real. He/she says he can't speak for team morale at Bungie yet he's supposed to be an employee. That really triggers my bullshit detector, Why would he/she be able to reveal all of this information and not be able to speak for team morale?

Doesn't Bungie have a bunch of employees? I imagine people in certain departments are more isolated than others.

 

[Magwik]

I don't really buy this 404architect is for real. He/she says he can't speak for team morale at Bungie yet he's supposed to be an employee. That really triggers my bullshit detector, Why would he/she be able to reveal all of this information and not be able to speak for team morale?

Because the morale could vary and he can't speak for the other 499 employees?

 

[infiniteheteroskdasticity]

I'm not at all surprised by this. The gunplay and PvP is decent and the graphics and art are phenomenal. Taken purely as a narrative driven game, Destiny is easily the worst campaign in terms of story and mission design that I've played all generation. Games like Killzone Shadowfall, Ryse and Thief felt more coherent than this. It was obvious that some major last minute changes to the focus of the game led to the cluster that it ended up as.

The game might have sold a lot in the first few days but a lot of those sales were on hype, (mis)marketing and Bungie's name alone. Once the big hitters of Oct/Nov hit, I expect Destiny to fall off rapidly. Bungie's challenge isn't to sell Destiny 1- they've largely done that. Their challenge is to rescue the "10 year franchise" that they had planned because barring a major change of direction and some pretty honest public introspection, a lot of the 5m+ people that ended up buying the original game won't be back for more.

 

[Oozer3993]

I don't really buy this 404architect is for real. He/she says he can't speak for team morale at Bungie yet he's supposed to be an employee. That really triggers my bullshit detector, Why would he/she be able to reveal all of this information and not be able to speak for team morale?

Several of his replies imply he doesn't work there anymore.

 

[Pop]

I don't really buy this 404architect is for real. He/she says he can't speak for team morale at Bungie yet he's supposed to be an employee. That really triggers my bullshit detector, Why would he/she be able to reveal all of this information and not be able to speak for team morale?

Who knows

Obviously things were gutted from the story and others not added in. Do I believe him, eh idk. I know what I've played and seen. Things were left out of the story that's for sure.

 

[Mindwipe]

I would offer this:

'The Dark Below' is the continuation of the Destiny story. It's being released in December. It will contain content that is being completed and enhanced as I type these words. We'll detail that out soon so you can make your own decisions.

As for communication, there are now 5 articles about Destiny updates (http://www.bungie.net/en/News#cat=up...nDate=0&page=1) as well as some revealing Dev Notes (http://www.bungie.net/7_Destiny-Dev-...News?aid=12188) that speak a lot to what we've learned and how we're reacting. That falls outside the other content I'm publishing whenever I can to open a window into our studio.

I'm not here to argue with you. I believe that, as the player, your emotional reactions to our games are never wrong. Those magical things that happen in your brain when you play are not things I would ever try to talk you out of. We learn from them. We listen to that because it's valuable to us.

What I would say is that Destiny rests on a foundation, and we're building on it. Many people are playing, and we're working to honor that passion and enthusiasm by supporting the experience. There are always things we can do to make the game better, and we're being aggressive about doing them.

And, this conversation will continue. Sincerely, I thank you for playing, and for talking about what you want Destiny to be. It's my job to give you a voice in our house, so don't stop talking.

I'll be around.

Who knows if 404 is real, but at this point Bungie needs to realise that this sort of vague shit isn't going to be enough.

If there's dramatic amounts of story content coming, they need to say so. If there's not I really think they're fucked. Sadly this suggests the latter.

 

[NoPiece]

I don't really buy this 404architect is for real. He/she says he can't speak for team morale at Bungie yet he's supposed to be an employee. That really triggers my bullshit detector, Why would he/she be able to reveal all of this information and not be able to speak for team morale?

Why would he/she be able to make up all of this information and not be able to make up an answer for team morale? It would be easy for a liar to just say morale is bad after the long crunch, and mediocre reviews. Seems more likely he is telling the truth, and doesn't know what morale is because because he doesn't work there any more, or works off site, or works at ATVI, but doesn't want to disclose that so people won't figure out who he is.

 

[saunderez]

Because the morale could vary and he can't speak for the other 499 employees?

Sure it could happen, but at every company I've worked for there's a general feeling of unrest when shit hits the fan. I'd definitely buy it more if he didn't work there anymore.

 

[Gator86]

The story so far with alleged Bungie insider 404Architect.

I hope Jason can get some confirmation on this type of stuff. All of this world explain the clusterfuck Destiny wound up being. It's incredibly sad to see so much potential wasted. Destiny will always be up there with my all time disappointments like Deus Ex 2 and the SSX reboot.

 

[FStop7]

I believe 404Architect. Too much detail, too much ring of truth. And he/she was very careful to speak only for him/herself.

 

[Mindwipe]

The story is such a joke and this video captures how lame it is.

Clicked on the video and it was preceded by an ad of a baby eating a hairbrush.

And I was like "yeah, I guess that does sum the plot up pretty well" until I saw the skip button.

 

[KingV]

This really explains why Destiny seems so rudderless. Its interesting in that there is a lot of polish, but the game seems to have no idea what it wants to be. Casual would have been 'Halo with different characters and some more co-op'. Hardcore would have had deeper systems and more raid focus.

Destiny is neither of those things. Its sort of a jack of all trades that does a mediocre job in 90% of things.

On the one hand, the strike design and easy missions scream casual, on the other hand, there is nothing casual about the amount of time the end game grind takes.

Its a really weird game in a lot of ways. I don't think its unfixable, but it needs to pick a direction.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

The whole Vault of Glass story shows there is still a good tale to be told in Destiny, just that it is hidden from view. Maybe Bungie can figure it out the next go around.

For those who missed it:

http://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/2hsrgy/spoiler_lore_why_we_raid_the_vault_of_glass/

Well shit. Is it that hard to incorporate this stuff in to the game?

Spoiler

I know I know. They probably just didn't have time.

 

[Coins]

on the latest episode of Rebel FM, both Arthur Gies (yeah I know) and Adam Sessler strongly hint at being at least partially privy to some serious shake-ups behind the scenes at Bungie. they go so far as to refrain from saying anything out of concern for being sued. again, totally anecdotal and super insider-baseball type stuff, but I think it's clear something of import happened at Bungie with Joe Staten that directly affected the outcome of Destiny.

I kind of thought maybe Gies himself made that initial reddit thread.

 

[Magwik]

In this regard watching the 2013 ViDoc with Staten makes me want to tear up a bit. :/

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Can anyone share more about this?

I don't know but this is compelling imo
http://www.destinypedia.com/Rasputin

 

[GillianSeed79]

I hope Jason can get some confirmation on this type of stuff. All of this world explain the clusterfuck Destiny wound up being. It's incredibly sad to see so much potential wasted. Destiny will always be up there with my all time disappointments like Deus Ex 2 and the SSX reboot.

Jason is an amazing journalist, but I seriously doubt anybody from Bungie is going to go on the record and confirm that, yep, the story was gutted, is a complete disaster and it's a clusterfuck of epic proportions. Sure, maybe anonymous sources, I guess. Look at that story on Lucasarts. A lot of the information about how shitty Lucas arts was run didn't come out until the studio was closed. Unless Activision closes Bungie or cancels the rest of the Destiny franchise, I don't think anything juicy from "official" sources is going to come out for A LONG time.

 

[sirap]

404srchitect sounds legit, especially with that Bill Nighy explanation. It's obvious that they intended for the speaker to have a much sinister role, or at the very least an important one. You don't hire Bill fucking Nighy just to voice a fashion salesman.

 

[Jarmel]

Sure it could happen, but at every company I've worked for there's a general feeling of unrest when shit hits the fan. I'd definitely buy it more if he didn't work there anymore.

Honestly if he worked there, there are 500 people. He might know 20-30 people there, he sure as hell couldn't speak for Bungie morale as a whole. His response actually adds to the believability in his case. Most people trying to fake this would have just made up some bullshit like people were excited/depressed.

lol i completely forgot about the intro part with the trip mines and Fallen climbing. jesus.

Yea the trip mine bit is all the evidence you need that something got rushed or cut.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Jason is an amazing journalist, but I seriously doubt anybody from Bungie is going to go on the record and confirm that, yep, the story was gutted, is a complete disaster and it's a clusterfuck of epic proportions. Sure, maybe anonymous sources, I guess. Look at that story on Lucasarts. A lot of the information about how shitty Lucas arts was run didn't come out until the studio was closed. Unless Activision closes Bungie or cancels the rest of the Destiny franchise, I don't think anything juicy from "official" sources is going to come out for A LONG time.

Can Activision close Bungie? I thought Bungie was independent?

 

[Jarmel]

404srchitect sounds legit, especially with that Bill Nighy explanation. It's obvious that they intended for the speaker to have a much sinister role, or at the very least an important one. You don't hire Bill fucking Nighy just to voice a fashion salesman.

Some of the people hired for these minor roles doesn't really make sense unless they had a much bigger part. Like you really paid for Fillion to come in and say twenty lines?

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

What if at one point when you started Destiny, the was a menu to select between single player and multiplayer.

If you selected multiplayer, it took you to everything we now know as Destiny. That would be a fascinating multiplayer mode, especially if it coincided with story events.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Can Activision close Bungie? I thought Bungie was independent?

Right, right. They are independent. Sorry, stupid brain fart. Activision is still publishing the Destiny franchise, so I don't think they will bite the hand that is feeding them so to speak.

 

[DoubleTake]

Sold the game today. Yea, im leaning towards believing 404Architect. The game just has this strange feeling of something that could have been much, much more than what it actually was.

If what 404 says is true then Bungie lost a great opportunity of introducing "casual" console gamers to MMOs and subsequently having them hooked for years to come as the default game of choice for that crowd. Instead they have a barebones co-op loot grinding game with no sense of purpose whatsoever.

 

[NoPiece]

Jason is an amazing journalist, but I seriously doubt anybody from Bungie is going to go on the record and confirm that, yep, the story was gutted, is a complete disaster and it's a clusterfuck of epic proportions. Sure, maybe anonymous sources, I guess. Look at that story on Lucasarts. A lot of the information about how shitty Lucas arts was run didn't come out until the studio was closed. Unless Activision closes Bungie or cancels the rest of the Destiny franchise, I don't think anything juicy from "official" sources is going to come out for A LONG time.

A good story doesn't need official or on the record sources. You just need unnamed sources and a trusted journalist. Like the Maxis insider who admitted the SimCity servers weren't needed to RPS.

 

[David___]

Right, right. They are independent. Sorry, stupid brain fart. Activision is still publishing the Destiny franchise, so I don't think they will bite the hand that is feeding them so to speak.

They don't need to go on record if they don't want to though. Jason just needs to verify that they are legit and just put them as "sources" in the article.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Makes sense to me.
When I started playing with a buddy and saw how crap the story material was, I knew something must have happened. Compared to Halo Story Wise destiny is just really really sad. The few cutscenes that are there aren't even worth watching. Doesn't help you can't skip them if you need to play that mission again for some reason.

The whole game just feels like you're a guy that kills stuff for loot on planets and nothing more.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

so Deej straight up said 404 is a troll? well ok then. I trust deej. its clear something went down with the narrative but we will probably never know.

 

[FyreWulff]

The pax panel had me interested because the guys seemed a little too somber. You'd think they'd be really excited to get this game out but they kept saying "tell us what we did wrong."

They want actual feedback. The entire time during alpha they kept asking us "what don't you like" "What do you feel is wrong" "is there something that could be done better".

Every time someone in the party would start up compliments on stuff done well, they'd steer us back to hearing what we didn't like.

Developers tend to prefer to hear what players don't like (formed constructively) than the positives, because you tend to get actual information out of what wasn't liked. "I like the trees" has little value, "Too many trees here blocks the firing lines" is useful.

 

[jett]

It's really disheartening to read all this. Despite enjoying the game, I just feel silly that I bought the digital guardian edition for a half-finished game that will give me some cobbled together DLC.

 

[op_ivy]

The story so far with alleged Bungie insider 404Architect.

holy.shit.

i love destiny, but thinking of what it could have been makes me sad. hope a lot of this cut stuff makes its way back in somehow and moving forward we get more of that epic space opera storyline.

 

[Magwik]

so Deej straight up said 404 is a troll? well ok then. I trust deej

Where did you get this from?

 

[Deadstar]

I was at PAX but missed that panel. Wish I'd seen it- woulda been interesting especially in light of everything that's occurred since release

I saw it on the pax twitch channel. Might be deleted now since they don't keep past recordings anymore. It might be on youtube too but I'm not sure. I just remember the Timmons guy seeming more sad than excited/happy. I feel bad because it seems like the problems were caused by the people higher up either at Bungie or Activision. Either way, I hope the series some days sees it's full potential.

 

[gamechanger87]

Where did you get this from?

Deej on bnet forum. This all makes way too much sense. If Bungie would come out and refute everyone of his points that would be great, but it won't happen. They already admitted the Grimoire cards were a last minute addition which makes no sense since it's where the story is located. The random beginning and overpaid VO make no sense considering what we get.

Why do factions exist? Bungie is in damage control

 

[Aeqvitas]

I feel like there are several sizable grains of truth to this. So many things about Destiny just seem empty and unfinished. The story feels like a shoehorn last minute attempt to scramble some existing voice over into it. There are some serious paid voice work for characters you never see or have any explanation for (Like Nathan Filion). The world and missions just seem sad and lifeless.

 

[Respawn]

This story was more interesting than Destiny's story was

That was good. I laughed and agree with you lol. Still playing and enjoying though.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

I saw it on the pax twitch channel. Might be deleted now since they don't keep past recordings anymore. It might be on youtube too but I'm not sure. I just remember the Timmons guy seeming more sad than excited/happy. I feel bad because it seems like the problems were caused by the people higher up either at Bungie or Activision. Either way, I hope the series some days sees it's full potential.

After reading it all, it sounded like Activision only prioritized that the game come out on time.

This has to have come from within bungie. They have the most to lose since Activision has so many ways to cut the contract early. There clearly wasn't unity in the type of game they wanted to make. A high production story shooter or a PSO mmo lite where they can easily plug in new content.

 

[RedAssedApe]

i laughed when i beat the game and the

Spoiler

exo lady gave me that burst rifle

like it was some space magic that would help me on my quest

 

[NeOak]

I feel like there are several sizable grains of truth to this. So many things about Destiny just seem empty and unfinished. The story feels like a shoehorn last minute attempt to scramble some existing voice over into it. There are some serious paid voice work for characters you never see or have any explanation for (Like Nathan Filion). The world and missions just seem sad and lifeless.

I was wondering why that voice for that strike was so familiar.

wow