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Republican Debate 4 [Fox Business] Kapow!

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Yeah, I think Trump is the most sane Republican running. Lord help us.

If a Democrat has their nomination sealed up by the time it comes to primary time in NC I'll likely vote in the Republican primary for Trump (anything to keep Carson out, man that guy is something else...).
 
Rand's foreign policy is extremely, hilariously isolationist and a side effect of his ultra libertarian "government shouldn't do anything" ideology, not some kind of genius level insight on foreign policy.

He doesn't want to intervene because it costs money to do so and expands government, not because that particular kind of global intervention is a negative. If children were starving in africa and needed food rand paul would say no for the same reason.

both pauls are joke tier ideologues that dont belong anywhere near elected office.

Apparently you have no idea what isolationism actually is. Paul is anything but that, he agrees on engaging ISIS to an extent and was for Afgahnistan.

Blindly supporting Israel is about as stupid a thing we can seriously still do. They could kick the shit out of every nation in the Middle East and be home in time for breakfast. Unlike us they wouldn't screw around. They did it in the 7 day war and they could very easily do it again.

Paul is just WAY more subjective in his engagements which after Iraq, Egypt, Lybia, Iran, Syria and many others doesn't seem like a bad idea.

Rand Paul is not his dad, his dad was the purest form of liberatrianism you'll ever see on the National stage. In order to win you absolutely have to have party support.
 
Agree on Paul. It's so frustrating that he (and his father) can be so on the nose with all of the stuff that just flat out has not worked for American foreign policy, and just be followed by people screaming about violating Russia's airspace, giving unquestioned support to Israel, arming everyone, or putting troops in fucking Germany of all places. If a Republican has to win the presidency, can dude at least be secretary of state?

I'd take him for Secretary of State no matter which side wins.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I'd take him for Secretary of State no matter which side wins.

He would be horrible as Secretary of State. He doesn't believe we should get involved in anything. An African country deal with a highly contagious infectious disease that's burning through their population like wildfire? He'd have them die out before helping. He's an ideologue and ideologues don't belong anywhere near positions of real consequence.
 

Kathian

Banned
Yeah, I think Trump is the most sane Republican running. Lord help us.

If a Democrat has their nomination sealed up by the time it comes to primary time in NC I'll likely vote in the Republican primary for Trump (anything to keep Carson out, man that guy is something else...).

This is the thing. Any of the others and Clinton will win easy. Trump will ditch some of his more mental ideas I'd he wins this - in the end he's not really a republican on most social issues and immigration is not that party political when it comes to Presidents.
 
They want to lower the minum wage? They're insane!

Their "reasoning" for this was amazing. Lots of handwave-y statements about how "it hurts the economy" and how it would be better because the same amount could employ more if broken up. Trump's solution is just "work hard".

Watching the candidates squirm on this one issue is really something else. They know they can't advocate not raising/lowering the minimum wage with a straight face so they just mumble something about the economy and trail off into non-answers. Rubio did his usual "omg why don't we get everyone into vocational school" routine he's done the past couple of debates instead of answering the question.
 

MartyStu

Member
He would be horrible as Secretary of State. He doesn't believe we should get involved in anything. An African country deal with a highly contagious infectious disease that's burning through their population like wildfire? He'd have them die out before helping. He's an ideologue and ideologues don't belong anywhere near positions of real consequence.

Ehh. If the the ISIS stuff from 1 -2 years ago is anything to go by he is not above compromising.
 

Sobriquet

Member
Jeb!: "I was in Washington, Iowa, about three months ago, talking about how bad Washington, D.C., is — it was, get the, kind of the… anyway."
 
He would be horrible as Secretary of State. He doesn't believe we should get involved in anything. An African country deal with a highly contagious infectious disease that's burning through their population like wildfire? He'd have them die out before helping. He's an ideologue and ideologues don't belong anywhere near positions of real consequence.

Paul wouldn't ignore it, he couldn't. He would probably ask the President and Congress to vote on a measure first before just simply spending money just because.

Things like this have a metric ton of grey area. You help Nigeria or some other impoverished nation you will be expected to help everyone, stop genocide, civil war, etc.

If Paul had been Sec of State when Hillary was in that office Benghazi probably would have never happened because he would have fault to not go in. He would have stepped down more than likely. Syria, Iraq, etc I could go on.

On one hand you have everyone else that goes in 100% of the time no questions asked about consequences of our actions. Then you have Paul who asks what the fuck?

At this point I would think the answer (or choice) is obvious.
 
This is the thing. Any of the others and Clinton will win easy. Trump will ditch some of his more mental ideas I'd he wins this - in the end he's not really a republican on most social issues and immigration is not that party political when it comes to Presidents.

Yeah, that's the hard part... Carson should fall to the Democrat (likely Clinton) easily -- should. But if he doesn't, man oh man. So better to do my part to knock him out in the primary and take the risk that the one dude that can beat Clinton -- Trump -- advances? Ugh. Maybe I'll just stay home for the primary.
 

Herbs

Banned
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Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Was I the only one that noticed that Cruz said his brilliant, freedom loving, pro-growth tax plan would create 4.9 million jobs over a fucking decade? That's 490K jobs a year, which is a little more than 12k jobs a month. Last month we had 270k.

I checked to make sure I didn't misinterpret what he meant to say, but he said the exact same thing during the last debate, and the tax foundation score that he bragged about using pretty much said the same thing:

According to our Taxes and Growth Model, the increased incentives to work and invest from this tax plan would increase the size of the economy by 13.9 percent over the long run. The plan would lead to 12.2 percent higher wages and a 43.9 percent larger capital stock. The larger economy would mainly result from a significant reduction in the service price of capital, due to the elimination of the corporate income tax and the significant reduction in the individual income tax. In addition, the reduction of marginal tax rates on individual income would increase incentives to work and result in 4.8 million full-time equivalent jobs.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-senator-ted-cruz-s-tax-plan

Even for Republicans, this is an amazingly shitty thing to boast about.

edit: I AM reading that Tax Foundation piece correctly, right? It's total growth over a decade, yes?
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
Was I the only one that noticed that Cruz said his brilliant, freedom loving, pro-growth tax plan would create 4.9 million jobs over a fucking decade? That's 490K jobs a year, which is a little more than 12k jobs a month. Last month we had 270k.

I checked to make sure I didn't misinterpret what he meant to say, but he said the exact same thing during the last debate, and the tax foundation score that he bragged about using pretty much said the same thing:



http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-senator-ted-cruz-s-tax-plan

Even for Republicans, this is an amazingly shitty thing to boast about.

edit: I AM reading that Tax Foundation piece correctly, right? It's total growth over a decade, yes?


my tax plan will create 50 million jobs over 1000 years
 

lednerg

Member
Was I the only one that noticed that Cruz said his brilliant, freedom loving, pro-growth tax plan would create 4.9 million jobs over a fucking decade? That's 490K jobs a year, which is a little more than 12k jobs a month. Last month we had 270k.
[...]

That's also on his website:

https://www.tedcruz.org/tax_plan_summary/

“Imagine 4.9 million new jobs. Instead of Obama’s income stagnation, imagine average wages rising 12.2 percent over the next decade. Capital investment rising 43.9 percent. And every income-level seeing double-digit increases in after-tax income. Imagine exports and manufacturing jobs booming. Our trade deficit falling as the tax bias against American made goods is eliminated. Imagine a 10 percent income tax, with every American filling out his or her taxes on a postcard or iPhone app. And abolishing the IRS as we know it.” – Ted Cruz

Yeah, those 4.9 million jobs... it certainly reads like they take a decade to happen. That's the only time frame he puts forward on his site. Fucking hilarious.
 

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Made a summary of the debate - 2.5 hours edited down to about 22 minutes: https://youtu.be/H34EzVSQwFw

I think Carson may have broken his hippocratic oath by giving me brain damage.

His remarks about minimum wage were like... I just cannot find the words to describe them. His strange combination of idiocy, charlatanism and low energy make for one of the most bizarre mainstream "politicians" I've ever seen. It's so hard to explain.
 
I think Carson may have broken his hippocratic oath by giving me brain damage.

His remarks about minimum wage were like... I just cannot find the words to describe them. His bizarre combination of idiocy, charlatanism and low energy make for one of the most bizarre mainstream "politicians" I've ever seen. It's so hard to explain.
Couldn't agree more. At least Trump's appeal makes sense.
 
I think Carson may have broken his hippocratic oath by giving me brain damage.

His remarks about minimum wage were like... I just cannot find the words to describe them. His bizarre combination of idiocy, charlatanism and low energy make for one of the most bizarre mainstream "politicians" I've ever seen. It's so hard to explain.
He made it seem like wages are just another form of handouts.
 

Henkka

Banned
"There are more words in the IRS code than there are in the Bible, and not a one of them is as good."

Wooooooow whaaa

Lol even he couldn't stop himself from laughing at that.
 
Yeah, I think Trump is the most sane Republican running. Lord help us.
I can't help but agree with this.

His tone of bigotry and general asinine behavior aside, I mean, after all the debates I've watched, I can't really even think of what, other than illegal immigration Trump is really conservative on. Opposed the war in Iraq, opposes more intervention in the Middle East, supports a single payer healthcare system, opposes our trade deals. He's with Bernie sanders on NAFTA and TPP.

I think he chose to target immigrants and blame them for issues as conservative "street cred" of sorts, to allow him to be left leaning elsewhere without abandoning a conservative base. If it wasn't for the immigration issue what would conservatives latch on to him for? He's practically a democrat on a large number of issues
 
His remarks about minimum wage were like... I just cannot find the words to describe them. His bizarre combination of idiocy, charlatanism and low energy make for one of the most bizarre mainstream "politicians" I've ever seen. It's so hard to explain.
Might sound weird but he reminds me of Ronald Reagan. The party that worships him and has tried to recreate his presidency over and over I believe have been missing in their candidates some qualities that helped get him into office and why the public favored him so much despite his bad policies.

He's soft spoken and while he might be saying some really awful stuff, his delivery and demeanor, he just comes across as likeable. Carson is kind of like Reagan where when people attack him and call out his BS he just calmly laughs them off or comes up with a coy, almost playful, retort. He doesn't snap, shout or come across as a bully. Even if policy wise he is. I mean so much of the stuff Carson has said so far disgusts me but despite that even I have a hard time hating his guts on the same level as some other republicans who aren't even as bad as him.
 

C0unter

Member
So weird that everyone other than Rand Paul was willing to let Trump away with ranting about china for the TPP question. Surely everyone there should've used that as an opportunity to talk about Trumps inexperience with policy?
 

User 406

Banned
I can't help but agree with this.

His tone of bigotry and general asinine behavior aside, I mean, after all the debates I've watched, I can't really even think of what, other than illegal immigration Trump is really conservative on. Opposed the war in Iraq, opposes more intervention in the Middle East, supports a single payer healthcare system, opposes our trade deals. He's with Bernie sanders on NAFTA and TPP.

I think he chose to target immigrants and blame them for issues as conservative "street cred" of sorts, to allow him to be left leaning elsewhere without abandoning a conservative base. If it wasn't for the immigration issue what would conservatives latch on to him for? He's practically a democrat on a large number of issues

If the enormous rift between his non-immigration policies and the rest of the GOP platform doesn't underscore just how much the Republican base is driven by racism, I don't know what does.
 
Might sound weird but he reminds me of Ronald Reagan. The party that worships him and has tried to recreate his presidency over and over I believe have been missing in their candidates some qualities that helped get him into office and why the public favored him so much despite his bad policies.

He's soft spoken and while he might be saying some really awful stuff, his delivery and demeanor, he just comes across as likeable. Carson is kind of like Reagan where when people attack him and call out his BS he just calmly laughs them off or comes up with a coy, almost playful, retort. He doesn't snap, shout or come across as a bully. Even if policy wise he is. I mean so much of the stuff Carson has said so far disgusts me but despite that even I have a hard time hating his guts on the same level as some other republicans who aren't even as bad as him.
I gotta disagree. I think he's probably the easiest to hate up there. Everything about him just makes my skin crawl, and then I remember that he's allowed to operate on children.
 
Trump doesn't really want to spend his own money on this.

Not only is trump spending his own money on this and has been for some time- raising the least out of the field while outspending everyone else by leaps and bounds- Trump literally bragged about it last night and threw Ted Cruz under the bus by doing so.

"You've heard a lot about websites tonight. Don't go to my website, because I'm funding my campaign myself."

Primary campaigns aren't really that expensive. Romney 2008 spent about 30-40 million of his own money, and he had stronger competition than Trump does here. In the general he'll absolutely need to take funding though.

Yes, everything about him is open book, but hee wants to build a wall between US and Mexico, a fucking giant wall. You know how much of the taxpayers money that will cost? Then rounding up and deporting 11 million migrants.

The Democrats will be doing cartwheelss if Trump, Bush or Carson win the nominations. Their only problem will be prioritising the crazy shit to attack.

There's a difference between saying something in a campaign that's red meat to voters to get them to pay attention, and actually doing that thing once elected. Even if Trump could win the general (he can't) building a massive wall would need to get past congress, which it won't.

Building a giant wall is in the same category as Carson's bible based flat tax plan. It gets idiots to pay attention by simplifying a complex issue into terms they can understand and that's about it.

As for the democrats, they're already doing cartwheels. no one on that stage is in any position to take on Hillary. Everyone is going to get crushed by historic margins no matter who wins the republican nomination.
 

Hexa

Member
Not only is trump spending his own money on this and has been for some time- raising the least out of the field while outspending everyone else by leaps and bounds- Trump literally bragged about it last night and threw Ted Cruz under the bus by doing so.

"You've heard a lot about websites tonight. Don't go to my website, because I'm funding my campaign myself."

Primary campaigns aren't really that expensive. Romney 2008 spent about 30-40 million of his own money, and he had stronger competition than Trump does here. In the general he'll absolutely need to take funding though.

Nope. He's actually spending less than most of the other big candidates.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/donald-trump-not-spending-campaign-money

He's spending more of the money he gets in small donations than spending his own money:
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...-donald-trumps-campaign-outpace-self-funding/
 
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