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Retro-GAF unite!

Chacranajxy

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Oct 13, 2008
17,536
165
975
31
I agree with everything. I do miss the straightforwardness of older computers.
I dunno that I’d want that straightforwardness outside of gaming, though. It’d be nice if Windows 10’s purported gaming mode actually let you switch to a more optimized environment like that, though, instead of whatever horse shit they actually gave us.

But, the advantages to FPGA are basically what I thought — it’s the only plausible way to eschew the bullshit.
 

Tain

Member
Jun 13, 2004
24,280
3
1,555
horizonvanguard.com
But, the advantages to FPGA are basically what I thought — it's the only plausible way to eschew the bullshit.
Gsync and Freesync come close enough for me, in many cases. IMO it's the only way that PC emulation is "good enough", though there are still some cases where audio delay could be a concern. It's effectively killed the clear biggest point of bullshit: the need to either buffer frames or accept screen tearing.

It obviously still doesn't compete with FPGA or real hardware combined with a CRT, but I'd argue it's preferable to real hardware + a dedicated scaler on a HDTV.
 

CrashPrime

Member
Sep 25, 2007
3,507
0
0
Wisconsin
Does anyone know what the requirements for Higan are at this point? I am reading articles from 2011 talking about "3ghz" but IPCs change and code changes.

What are we talking about minimum hardware wise? Is there a single board computer capable of running it at this point? Obviously the Raspberry Pi isn't even close.
 

Chacranajxy

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Oct 13, 2008
17,536
165
975
31
I don't think the hardware specs have changed. All I know is that I tried running it on my extremely capable computer, and it stuttered like crazy. I couldn't figure out why it was doing it and didn't really want to dig, so I just wrote it off as "this is why I don't bother."
 

tomwhite2004

Member
Jul 10, 2013
644
1
330
Higan syncs to audio by default, not video. This is to match the real 60.08hz refresh of the hardware. As a result vsync is not on by default so you get the correct speed and audio, but stutters. If you enable vsync then the audio is not longer at the correct speed so pops and crackles.

The only way round it with the stand alone is to use a gsync monitor with a particular audio backend that most pc's don't support.

Luckily the core was just included in retroarch, which thanks to dynamic rate control allows you to sync audio and video to your monitors refresh rate. Which for me is 60.02hz, fractionally slower but better then not being able to use it at all.

What are we talking about minimum hardware wise? Is there a single board computer capable of running it at this point? Obviously the Raspberry Pi isn't even close.
I don't think there is a single board solution just yet, especially as the older performance and balanced profiles were dropped. Like you say IPC is improving all the time so its really hard to say what the minimum is, but on my i3-6320 it never goes above 15% cpu usage so you should be fine with anything from the Haswell generation and up.
 

Peltz

Member
Apr 26, 2014
16,507
6
445
I don't think the hardware specs have changed. All I know is that I tried running it on my extremely capable computer, and it stuttered like crazy. I couldn't figure out why it was doing it and didn't really want to dig, so I just wrote it off as "this is why I don't bother."
I think the specs have increased over the years actually if I recall correctly. I've never used it but could have sworn the author of the emulator stated that once.
 

tomwhite2004

Member
Jul 10, 2013
644
1
330
single thread performance has gone up at a larger percentage year on year then the demands on the cpu from increased accuracy though.

i found the below on reddit:

"But as of v099, I dropped the faster profiles that sacrificed some accuracy. Right now, the SNES, GBA, and SuperGrafx cores are rather demanding. You'd want something like the January 2011 i7-2600K"

which is roughly a single thread benchmark score of 2000 according to the below, so any cpu at that score above or above will be fine.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html
 

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Aug 27, 2013
6,335
1
0
Higan syncs to audio by default, not video. This is to match the real 60.08hz refresh of the hardware. As a result vsync is not on by default so you get the correct speed and audio, but stutters. If you enable vsync then the audio is not longer at the correct speed so pops and crackles.

The only way round it with the stand alone is to use a gsync monitor with a particular audio backend that most pc's don't support.
It's been a while since I've used it but back when it was bsnes I was able to turn on vsync and output over hdmi to a TV that supported the (somewhat uncommon) 32khz audio output which resulted in a non juddery non fucked audio result. But it wouldn't happen on my monitor/speaker combo at all.

And yeah this was in my list of "why I don't bother" as well.
 

tomwhite2004

Member
Jul 10, 2013
644
1
330
It's been a while since I've used it but back when it was bsnes I was able to turn on vsync and output over hdmi to a TV that supported the (somewhat uncommon) 32khz audio output which resulted in a non juddery non fucked audio result.
there was a form of dynamic rate control in older versions but it still lost sync at every 15 minute or so intervals. byuu said he could never get it perfect and so removed it. also windows 10 broke its implementation if I'm not mistaken.
 

b3b0p

Member
Aug 23, 2010
1,722
1
570
Stillwater, OK
Yo Retro GAF.

I have resisted the temptations to buying a Nintendo Switch.

I sold my entire collection to a fellow GAF member after moving many times, living in a small studio, and tired of moving it all, packing it, and taking up space (31 large boxes).

However, after listening Jeff and the Giant Bomb crew proclaim how awesome the Super NT will be and how awesome the NT is I could not resist.

I was also frustrated beyond even my own disbelief of how bad even the best emulation is when you are used to the original hardware, controllers, and cartridges. The input lag for most games on NES for me was not tolerable or maybe just seemed to ruin the fun to me. Not to mention the ever so slight glitches encountered on some (most?) games. (Or maybe it's just me?)

Anyway, assuming it comes in February, I'm looking forward to it. Until then, my new 3DS virtual console will have to do.
 

Peltz

Member
Apr 26, 2014
16,507
6
445
Yo Retro GAF.

I have resisted the temptations to buying a Nintendo Switch.

I sold my entire collection to a fellow GAF member after moving many times, living in a small studio, and tired of moving it all, packing it, and taking up space (31 large boxes).

However, after listening Jeff and the Giant Bomb crew proclaim how awesome the Super NT will be and how awesome the NT is I could not resist.

I was also frustrated beyond even my own disbelief of how bad even the best emulation is when you are used to the original hardware, controllers, and cartridges. The input lag for most games on NES for me was not tolerable or maybe just seemed to ruin the fun to me. Not to mention the ever so slight glitches encountered on some (most?) games. (Or maybe it's just me?)

Anyway, assuming it comes in February, I'm looking forward to it. Until then, my new 3DS virtual console will have to do.
Welcome back to the rabbit hole.
 

sixteen-bit

Member
Aug 16, 2006
169,320
19
0
Yo Retro GAF.

I have resisted the temptations to buying a Nintendo Switch.

I sold my entire collection to a fellow GAF member after moving many times, living in a small studio, and tired of moving it all, packing it, and taking up space (31 large boxes).

However, after listening Jeff and the Giant Bomb crew proclaim how awesome the Super NT will be and how awesome the NT is I could not resist.

I was also frustrated beyond even my own disbelief of how bad even the best emulation is when you are used to the original hardware, controllers, and cartridges. The input lag for most games on NES for me was not tolerable or maybe just seemed to ruin the fun to me. Not to mention the ever so slight glitches encountered on some (most?) games. (Or maybe it's just me?)

Anyway, assuming it comes in February, I'm looking forward to it. Until then, my new 3DS virtual console will have to do.
Enjoy your stay, even if it's temporary
 

Anth0ny

Member
May 31, 2009
60,578
2
860
Toronto
www.neogaf.com
that giantbombcast discussion on the Super NT was really fascinating.


kevtris is a god damn wizard



The FPGA stuff is really interesting to me and might be the future of retro gaming. 100% compatibility, cartridge slots, and then basically a framemeister (or at least simple, good compatibility with HDTVs) and an everdrive built in (sd card support). so good.
 

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Aug 27, 2013
6,335
1
0
that giantbombcast discussion on the Super NT was really fascinating.


kevtris is a god damn wizard



The FPGA stuff is really interesting to me and might be the future of retro gaming. 100% compatibility, cartridge slots, and then basically a framemeister (or at least simple, good compatibility with HDTVs) and an everdrive built in (sd card support). so good.
Anyone know when in the podcast they talked about this? The last time I went scrubbing through 3 hours of talk to find the small portion I wanted. Really wish they had an index to use.

I haven't kept up with the bombcast in like 3 years... I kinda lost interest around the time Ryan died and especially got tired of hearing Brad spend 30 - 40 mins at the beginning of every episode talking about DOTA.

Edit: 1:00:54
 

Fuzzy

I would bang a hot farmer!
Jan 11, 2005
31,107
0
1,475
The FPGA stuff is really interesting to me and might be the future of retro gaming. 100% compatibility, cartridge slots, and then basically a framemeister (or at least simple, good compatibility with HDTVs) and an everdrive built in (sd card support). so good.
As long as the Super Nt doesn't have analogue output it's not 100%.
 

Chacranajxy

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Oct 13, 2008
17,536
165
975
31
I stopped listening to the Bombcast once I realized that Jeff doesn't seem to like anything. Doesn't matter how fun the game is, he hates it all. Dude is depressed as fuck. Though, the show was already getting bad enough with Patrick running his usual line of bullshit.

Vinny was a champ.
 

RadarScope1

Member
Dec 9, 2007
6,752
1
905
I would actually listen to the Bombcast again if they just indexed the damn thing. Thanks for the time stamp on that. I’ll defiintely listen at some point.
 

Flizzzipper

Member
Jun 8, 2004
4,235
2
1,255
Indiana
I stopped listening to the Bombcast once I realized that Jeff doesn't seem to like anything. Doesn't matter how fun the game is, he hates it all. Dude is depressed as fuck. Though, the show was already getting bad enough with Patrick running his usual line of bullshit.

Vinny was a champ.
Jeff only hates new games. Unless they are based on old games likes Super Mario Maker.
 

Futaba

Member
Feb 10, 2014
1,171
0
0
Been spending my free time modelling my retro stuff in 3D rather than actually playing it lately, recently got done with my PVM-1442Q
 

Peltz

Member
Apr 26, 2014
16,507
6
445
I'm available to help too if Spice Orange is unable to get to you. I'll send you an invite.

Guys, if I do not respond to your PM's it's due to the new 10 minute time limit rules. I will get you today or tomorrow at the latest. Keep checking back for your pms and don't get banned yet.
 

AwesomeSauce

MagsMoonshine
Mar 22, 2010
3,130
0
660
There's a PM limit going on at the moment. Peltz, can you put the invite in quote tags? So we can just quote the post to see it?
 

Spladam

Member
Jun 12, 2015
2,245
7
350
I think that can be arranged.
I would love to join you guys on discord as well if that's possible, would greatly appreciate that.

So...
I wanted to stop by and say goodbye, I won't be coming here much anymore, I just read the Waypoint article, and...... anyway.

I wanted to thank retroGAF for all the celebrations of RETRO goodness you guys were part of, it's been awesome to lurk and talk to you guys and be part of you guys appreciation for all things Retro gaming, even if I wasn't as active as I wanted to be here.

Follow me on twitter if you like @SplAdamSage, I have to say I've found a friendly and active RETRO community on twitter that I would love you guys to be part of.

Notable mentions that I highly recommend and think you guys would love if you find yourself in that part of the internet: @Retr0Joe @RetroBoyJon @TFIRetro @Bhaal_Spawn @dosnostalgic @ColonelFalcon

There are so many others, but any one of the above will lead you to them as well. They are friendly people with amazing collections that share a love for talking about and sharing all things retro gaming.

I'll check back later for today to see if that discord invite happens.

You guys are awesome, it's been great, and again, thanks,
Adam.
 

-KRS-

Member
Sep 9, 2009
4,875
0
0
Sweden
enlisy.com
This is so sad.. :(

Even if I didn't write so much here on gaf I still read the threads and enjoyed the discussions, especially in the retro community here, pretty much every day. It'll be weird to have that disappear. Thanks for all the good times on here you guys!

I too would like a discord invite when and if possible.
 

Lettuce

Member
Mar 25, 2005
5,143
2
0
downloads.khinsider.com
This is so sad.. :(

Even if I didn't write so much here on gaf I still read the threads and enjoyed the discussions, especially in the retro community here, pretty much every day. It'll be weird to have that disappear. Thanks for all the good times on here you guys!

I too would like a discord invite when and if possible.
Yeah discord can be so disjointed, shame one of the old mods can't start up a new forum and bring all the old threads over :-(
 

IrishNinja

Member
May 12, 2009
40,067
8
0
Vice City
Yeah discord can be so disjointed, shame one of the old mods can't start up a new forum and bring all the old threads over :-(
yeah, discord's chat and im a forum guy, haha. personally i'm at slaent now but i know others migrated to bore & other places, we've yet to see what becomes of ressettiera or whatever too