Didn't do him much good in the end.
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Return of the Jedi Cinematography.
- Thread starter supermarioworldE
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Didn't do him much good in the end.
More_Badass
Member
It did. But the Force is more powerful than any training
Warm Machine
Member
My guess is really that Lucas had the movie storyboarded ahead of time and Kershner came in to direct the actors and not so much the camera. Empire is framed like all of the other Lucas produced/directed Star Wars films. The art of books pretty well show key shots and lighting is determined way ahead of time and before Irvin was even hired.
Raiden1018
Banned
wat
You dont just automatically master the force.
What happened in TFA was just something called:
Writer's convenience
Sectorseven
Member
My understanding is Richard Marquand was under intense pressure to get it finished on time and under budget (ANH and ESB were both over budget and at risk of bankrupting Lucas).
Perfect Cha0s
Member
The force being stronger as an ally than as a weapon is like.... core Star Wars, dude.
WadiumArcadium
Member
Rey automatically mastered the Force? Did Luke automatically master the Force when he took out the first Death Star?
More_Badass
Member
No, the Force isn't something to master. But something that helps if you open yourself to its guidance. Like helping someone nail an impossible shot or overcome a superior but less Force-attuned foe
I went through all 6 before Force Awakens, and there's a significant chunks I would remove. That movie has a lot of bad parts (for example the 3CPO worshipping and Ewok stuff)
Vader still curb stomped Luke in their first fight... untrained in the force, should still be untrained in the force.
Escape Goat
Member
Thats what I didn't like about TFA. Rey's victory didn't feel earned. Why even have an Academy? Yoda was wasting his time with the younglings. Apparently, Luke just needs to sit down with people for a couple hours.
Its not like Luke using the force to nail an impossible shot. Rey fought off a trained duelist for several minutes.
Raiden1018
Banned
He guided a torpedo with the force. He didnt destroy someone that was trained for 10 plus years and he didnt use the mind trick on anyone
WadiumArcadium
Member
He was injured and was clearly a bit messed up mentally after killing his dad. Plus it's not like Rey didn't know how to handle herself in close quarters combat. She was pretty lethal with that staff.
Luke had Obi Wan to introduce him to the force, was getting taught by Yoda for a while. And still got curb stomped.
You have Kylo getting trained by Luke prior and now Snoke.
And then you have Rey who, just found out the force is real a day ago calling upon its power like a Saiyan.
Escape Goat
Member
Luke never really faced Vader until Jedi. His ESB duel was Vader testing Luke. Vader wanted to convert Luke, not kill him.
But I don't think we're disagreeing about Rey using haxxorz to win.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
So much misunderstanding of the Force in this thread... Some of you guys would make good Sith.
Raiden1018
Banned
Ehhh yeah. But how does she know that she can even control someones mind? And how does she do it?
WadiumArcadium
Member
Kylo interrogates her earlier in the film and though he manages to extract some things from her mind, Rey manages to fight him off and rummage around his mind as well. Maybe this triggers an 'awakening' of her powers or she discovers some of the other ways she can use the Force by doing this.
She's seen A New Hope.
This is not only one of my fav Star wars scenes but also one of my fav scenes in movie history. Dat music, dat emotion, just everything is perfect!!!
Empire is better, but there is nothing that tops this sequence.
Fudgepuppy
Banned
Motherfucker, if you found out tomorrow that wizards are real and you were interrogated by an evil one, lord knows you'd try to Gandalf your way out of it.
Empire is better, but there is nothing that tops this sequence.
Yeah this is the really redeeming feature of the film stylistically. Loved when Luke is hiding in the shadows while Vader lurks about leading up to this climax. What I didn't like was how lame and dull the lightsaber duel is up to that point. Some REALLY shaky camera work at point, like the steadicam operator was drunk kind of shots, and the lightsaber choreography was dull. I don't want Obi/Abi duel tomfoolery, but it could have been a little more dynamic (Cloud City's multi-part duel was full of cool little moments).
I can't help but feel that Johnson is going to knock it out the park in terms of tone and dynamism and then that guy that made the pretty-average-nothing-spectacular Jurassic World is gonna pull a Jedi on us in the last film with much of the drama sucked out of it with lame shots and direction...
EDIT: OH FOR FUCKS SAKE GUYS.
Reading the latest comments on a Return of the Jedi cinematography thread and your talking about the Rey being a Mary Sue bollocks. Fucking hell get a grip.
This was a great shot, especially with the score.
The Force got Luke to blow up the Death Star (without a targeting computer).
The Force got Leia to find Luke on Bespin (without knowing where he was).
The Force got Vader to learn he had a daughter from Luke (despite having no reason to believe this).
And The Force wasn't even the thing that made Rey win the battle against Ren, it was Chewie's laser blast from 10 minutes earlier.
Raiden1018
Banned
I will say that two out of three of these characters had already received some kind of training or supernatural assistance, and two of the moments had to do with blood relationships allowing people to find each other with the Force. And Luke was already a freaking awesome pilot. It's part of his backstory, right? What's more, the scene was about trusting your own humanity/the Force, and not letting a machine take over your judgement (Darth Vader, anyone?) so there's a thematic grounding to support the moment.
Fancy Clown
Member
No, a different, more talented director
Empire is better, but there is nothing that tops this sequence.
I never understood why Vader tripped at the end of the fight, it looked a bit out of place
DiipuSurotu
Banned
He was probably exhausted. At the end of the day he's still an old damaged body in a life support device.
Princess Carl
Member
This was a great shot, especially with the score.
The Force got Luke to blow up the Death Star (without a targeting computer).
The Force got Leia to find Luke on Bespin (without knowing where he was).
The Force got Vader to learn he had a daughter from Luke (despite having no reason to believe this).
And The Force wasn't even the thing that made Rey win the battle against Ren, it was Chewie's laser blast from 10 minutes earlier.
Seriously ppl pay attention when you watch the movie.
And Gandalf would still drop kick my ass if I tried to roll up on him like I was Billy Badass.
We've all seen this right:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPZigWFyK2o
Just the space battle scenes from the ROTJ finale...
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Empire is better, but there is nothing that tops this sequence.
Easily in my Top Five favorite scenes ever; and absolutely the best scene in Star Wars. The build up, the emotion, the dialogue... DAT MUSIC. DAT RAGE. That tracking wide shot. So fucking good.
Yeah people are usually known to be quite composed right after murdering their father.
Was there a Director's Guild strike at the time? I don't know the history.
And yeah, that final fight between Luke and Vader is amazing (I make sure to never watch the version with the "Nooo" inserted), and Williams score just elevates it even higher. I can't wait to see what they do with Luke in the next one(s).
Jack Random
Member
Ren had also just been shot by The Bowcaster, which they spent half the movie explaining to you was basically a fucking rocket launcher.
To me nothing has come close to it since.
I think you can see this throughout that fight though. At the very beginning of it, Luke knocks him down a flight of stairs. The Darth Vader from Empire wouldn't have allowed that. He's trying to turn his son to the dark side while struggling himself with the possibility of turning to the light. He's unfocused and I don't think he really cared about winning at that point. You knew at that point he really wouldn't hurt his son anymore. He gave up.
So many people forget or ignore this. He got shot by a bowcaster, that alone is enough explanation for his severely weakened state. You see others flying through the room after being hit with that thing.
They even frequently made a point to show Ren was bleeding and fighting intense pain when facing off against Finn and Rey during the lightsaber battle.
As far as "The Force saves the good guys" moments go in the series, this one has more story-given excuses to be more believable than most of the others.
Wait... if it's the bowcaster that saves them, that doesn't mean the Force scene is believable. It means Kylo was weak and gave Rey enough of a chance to survive.
Also, Han Solo basically tells the audience how powerful that bow caster is and you see it being used a few times to devastating affect.
Finn got his ass kicked.
Rey was scrambling a lot of the time too until the end were she realised the force could be used for power after Kylo tells her then I dunno, lets it in and unleashes stronger blows on a broken Kylo.
Empire is better, but there is nothing that tops this sequence.
2nd greatest movie scene in history, second only to the D-day landing in Saving private Ryan.
The shot of whole squads of fighters attacking at 2:10 blew me away as a kid, you'd only seen a few at a time before in ANH and ESB, suddenly there were dozens flying all over the screen.
Exactly, and the reason she was pushed back was because she wasn't using the force AT ALL.
When he asks her to join them, you can see/feel the desperation, he's bleeding out from essentially ranking a hand grenade to the gut, and just defeated another person.
Not to mention his emotional turmoil at killing his father and not feeling anywhere near as powerful as he thought he would be (evidenced by being hurt by Finn).
Frankly it's a demonstration that he's physically tough as the best of them, but reinforces what's always been implied that the force is as much about mind and body.
Hell he was shown several times earlier in the movies lose confidence in his abilities and having the force fail him as a result.
Who taught Luke to pull a lightsaber with the force? Obi-Wan never gave him that lesson in ANH as far as we saw.
Lest we forget luke nails the exhaust port in A New Hope with minimal training in the Force, with a shot that wasn't made by a trained rebel squadron leader with a targeting computer.
She didn't master the force. She learned some basic concepts and applications from someone who was (inadvertently) teaching what it could do, and then manged a few moments of tapping into it when she focused and believed that she could. Her usage makes sense in both the context of the film and the context of the series. It's quite comparable to what Luke pulls off.
A farmer using a sword for the first time blocking laser blasts while blind after mere moments of practice and a few sentences from Obi-Wan about the Force is at least on par with what Rey does in TFA.
DarkJediKnight
Member
Crosbow laser blast to the kidneys is more powerful than training.
Oh fuck ewoks, I somehow forgot about those things.
Well, is there anything good about RoTJ aside from the legendary Luke/Vader confrontation?
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