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[maharg]

And re: TOS era ship numbers, the Enterprise was NCC 1701.

And that really doesn't tell you anything. How many ships were built/lost in wartime fighting the romulans and the klingons? How many of those ships are warships? Are there gaps reserved for classes? Are there other ships that have had their numbers reassigned? How many ships are run at the same time?

There were apparently only 12 or 14 Constitution class ships (like the Enterprise) in operation at the time btw. http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Tomorrow_is_Yesterday_(episode)#Background_Information.

You'd probably assume The USS JFK, being CV-67, was the 67th carrier built by the US navy, but you'd be wrong.

 

[Freshmaker]

Well, Memory Alpha lists "Operation Return" as being between ~600 Federation/Klingon ships and 1200 Dominion...

That's a post Borg operation, and the Federation still wasn't putting out thousands of ships into the battle.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

You'd probably assume The USS JFK, being CV-67, was the 67th carrier built by the US navy, but you'd be wrong.

Well it would've been the 67th, if not for the 12 carriers cancelled before hand. So you could say it was the 67th planned carrier to be built at least.

 

[maharg]

Which is exactly my point. That's within about 40 years of carriers being in operation and for most of that the US only fielding a handful at a time during peace-time (with an uptick in both building and destruction during World War II). 1701 is certainly not the number in operation at the time, and it's impossible to work back from it to figure out how many they would be fielding at a time.

Also worth noting that the Enterprise itself, clearly considered a special case, had a run of about 20-25 years with a major refit in there. Doesn't seem likely that most of them lasted more than 10. Seems like they lasted longer by TNG-times, though.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I wouldn't mind a war as long as the war was not the only type of action being shown on the screen; this movie excelled because it was so damn fun in spite of having a pretty weak script, and while I'm confident that the next movie will have a script that is miles better, I still want that sense of fun to remain in tact.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

I don't think Starfleet ever had more than 3 ships during Enterprise's run.

Well, they had ships, but they were mostly slow or dinky. Through the end of the series the only big exploration ships they had were Enterprise and Columbia.

EDIT: To specify, I mean through the four actually-shown years, not the six (or several hundred depending on how you look at it) extra years the finale gave.

 

[Xenon]

I don't want new Khan. Even if they did it better, to be locked into a Connie vs Miranda fight with some space hobo for the whole movie would be a waste of an opportunity.

I thought the next film would focus on the federation-klingon war?

I can't see why they would try Khan. The whole appeal of the character was that they were able to get the same actor from the original series and draw on the story from that episode. It makes zero sense to try and recreate that in JJs Trek


I think playing with this alternate reality and seeing how things shape out could be the most interesting thing to happen to the Trek universe in a long time. With the

Spoiler

Vulcan home world destroyed I could see the Klingons pouncing on the Federation in its weakened state. Still, Im not sure I’d want them to jump right into it. I think a smaller plot with hints of the effect of the Federation losing its strongest race and foreshadowing the war would be better.

The focus on the characters is what made the first film one of my, if not my most favorite Trek flick. So now that they have the characters setup, they need to flesh out the universe a bit more before an all out war, especially since this movie has so many non-Trekkie fans.

 

[beelzebozo]

man, i think about the next movie, and about seeing chris pine playing kirk again, and it makes me fucking giddy. this movie rocked so hard.

 

[Zen]

War is not something that even belongs in Star Trek. The Dominon War was very nice in Deep Space Nine, but even then, the focus of the show wasn't so much on the war itself, but how it was affecting everything else. Just having a two-hour movie about a huge war between Klingons and the Federation isn't very Star Trek, at least to me.

The one thing I'm wondering is what kind of Klingon are we going to see? The quasi-human looking Klingons or the later generations?

In the extended scene on the Klingon Prison planet they just had very stupid metallic masks covering their faces It sort of dumb(er) when you consider that the Klingons didn't even begin to change until some point after we last saw them in ToS, but I guess they didn't want to confused audience members whom were only familiar with post ToS Klingons. They could just show a sort of in between, veering mostly to the TOS standard. It could be explained as any one of the hypothesis raised during the ToS episode of DS9 (although I'd go with some sort of space mutation that's gradually effecting the species and being passed from generation to generation).

And I agree, besides you can only do an 'all out war between the Federation and Klingon Empire' once in the movies, I'd much rather they hold off on the predictable stuff.

 

[maharg]

In the extended scene on the Klingon Prison planet they just had very stupid metallic masks covering their faces It sort of dumb(er) when you consider that the Klingons didn't even begin to change until some point after we last saw them in ToS, but I guess they didn't want to confused audience members whom were only familiar with post ToS Klingons. They could just show a sort of in between, veering mostly to the TOS standard. It could be explained as any one of the hypothesis raised during the ToS episode of DS9 (although I'd go with some sort of space mutation that's gradually effecting the species and being passed from generation to generation).

And I agree, besides you can only do an 'all out war between the Federation and Klingon Empire' once in the movies, I'd much rather they hold off on the predictable stuff.

You do realize there's a canon explanation now, care of Enterprise, right?

 

[Zenith]

You do realize there's a canon explanation now, care of Enterprise, right?

Enterprise did nothing but screw up the canon established by the other shows. Klingons, Romulans, Borg... not one single thing fit.

 

[Tobor]

You do realize there's a canon explanation now, care of Enterprise, right?

And a lousy one, too!

Why did there even need to be an explanation? It's like trying to explain why the tech in the new movie looks so much more advanced than in TOS. It's just not necessary. The new movie should just use the modern Klingon makeup style and forget about it.

@Xenon, I'm fine with foreshadowing or building up to a Klingon War that pays off in the third movie. That's the only acceptable alternative IMO.

 

[maharg]

It's funny that you think Enterprise is somehow unique in disrupting the canon of the shows that preceded it.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

It's funny that you think Enterprise is somehow unique in disrupting the canon of the shows that preceded it.

Seriously. It certainly stretched what we thought we knew, but half the time TOS hadn't even decided what century it was supposed to be in.

 

[Zenith]

It's funny that you think Enterprise is somehow unique in disrupting the canon of the shows that preceded it.

it was much worse than the others. TOS et al would normally be one line contradicting another line from a different ep, Ent screwed up a whole century's worth of canon.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

it was much worse than the others. TOS et al would normally be one line contradicting another line from a different ep, Ent screwed up a whole century's worth of canon.

Which things specifically are you thinking of? I've mostly got memories of them often using stupid methods to try to get away with stuff. Like, having the Borg but never having them use the word "Borg".

 

[Zenith]

Which things specifically are you thinking of? I've mostly got memories of them often using stupid methods to try to get away with stuff. Like, having the Borg but never having them use the word "Borg".

the Earth/Romulan wars. First contact with the klingons resulted in a war that formed the entire basis for their antipathy in TOS. having the Borg when Q Who is very explicit this is their first encounter. DS9 was specific about their only being 6 Enterprises and Kirk's was the first. the Ferengi episode probably screwed up something as well. pretty much any episode where they took stuff from the other series always got done in such a way as to screw it up as much as possible. it's like they were trying to contradict themselves.

 

[maharg]

Eh, the door to the Borg interference was opened in the beloved First Contact, a TNG movie. I don't see any way in which the Romulan encounter screwed anything up since they never saw each other, which is all that was really established in TOS (and let's be honest, reality is what fucked with the idea that they had no visual communications at the time of the romulan/federation conflict). They were pretty careful to avoid screwing up the ferengi encounter as well, with I think only one crewmember seeing them and never finding out what they were. Never mind that TNG itself retconned both the Borg and the Ferengi between each of their first and second encounters. That's just within the same show!

Honestly, you could probably list hundreds of ways in which the TNG era messed up some element of TOS' backstory, but you probably don't care because you liked it. Enterprise is not by any means particularly guilty among Star Treks. Hell, TNG's complete alteration of the nature and appearance of the Klingons alone is probably bigger than anything Enterprise did. They sure weren't honor/duty bound warrior poets in TOS. They were much more like TNG Romulans.

Incidentally, I like TOS Klingons much better than TNG Klingons.

 

[Freshmaker]

the Earth/Romulan wars. First contact with the klingons resulted in a war that formed the entire basis for their antipathy in TOS. having the Borg when Q Who is very explicit this is their first encounter. DS9 was specific about their only being 6 Enterprises and Kirk's was the first. the Ferengi episode probably screwed up something as well. pretty much any episode where they took stuff from the other series always got done in such a way as to screw it up as much as possible. it's like they were trying to contradict themselves.

It's not just their cutesy ways of skirting canon. Every time they did that, there was always a thousand barely explored species/culture that appeared in TOS that never really got any explanation that they could've covered in Enterprise instead of having yet another wacky Ferengi episode etc.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

It's not just their cutesy ways of skirting canon. Every time they did that, there was always a thousand barely explored species/culture that appeared in TOS that never really got any explanation that they could've covered in Enterprise instead of having yet another wacky Ferengi episode etc.

Oh those wacky Ferengi.

If only they had made a live action version of the Federation novel, it would've been fun to see Ferengi running around a Romulan warbird trying to figure out how to work it.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

For anyone yet to see this and too lazy to pick up the DVD/BR, it's up on some cable companies' On Demand offerings, as well as apparently all the other previous ST movies.

 

[zoukka]

I didn't understand a word on this page :lol

 

[DrForester]

the Earth/Romulan wars. First contact with the klingons resulted in a war that formed the entire basis for their antipathy in TOS. having the Borg when Q Who is very explicit this is their first encounter. DS9 was specific about their only being 6 Enterprises and Kirk's was the first. the Ferengi episode probably screwed up something as well. pretty much any episode where they took stuff from the other series always got done in such a way as to screw it up as much as possible. it's like they were trying to contradict themselves.

The Romulan wars still happen and while they did have a 2 part episode with the Romulans, the Romulans are never seen by the crew.

Even the writers said early on that the Borg knew about the Federation before their encounter. The Borg were originally going to be the species that tried to infiltrate the federation with the parasites in season 1 of TNG.

There were 6 enterprises in the Federation. Archer's Enterprise was before the forming of the Federation.

In the Ferengi episode, it was never said what their species was.


Many problems as Enterprise had, I thought it went out of it's way to fit with established cannon as much as possible.

 

[Tobor]

Incidentally, I like TOS Klingons much better than TNG Klingons.

You and me both.

 

[TAJ]

And re: TOS era ship numbers, the Enterprise was NCC 1701.

Why is anyone still speculating on what 1701 means in this timeline when it was explained in the commentary track for XI? It means seventeenth design, first example. Absolutely nothing about the number of ships built by Starfleet can be drawn from that.
And I'm really glad they cut the Klingon subplot. The idea of the Klingons capturing the mining ship is dumb beyond belief. The Romulans breaking out of prison and stealing it back is somehow dumber still.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

For anyone yet to see this and too lazy to pick up the DVD/BR, it's up on some cable companies' On Demand offerings, as well as apparently all the other previous ST movies.

It's FINALLY up for rent on XBLM on which I finally saw it this morning.

Fucking outstanding. I know next to nothing of the original Star Trek lore (and yeah, similarly, this page read like glue water), so this was just a kick ass space adventure. Loved everything about it, except Winona Ryder. It's kind of weird that she's somehow crossed into that persona of someone unable to be a regular actor anymore. The whole time I was like "Oh, Winona Ryder. Okay."

Other then that, holy shit, when do I get more?

 

[Solo]

Other then that, holy shit, when do I get more?

Originally summer 2011, but its now rumored to be summer 2012.

 

[gdt]

It's FINALLY up for rent on XBLM on which I finally saw it this morning.

Fucking outstanding. I know next to nothing of the original Star Trek lore (and yeah, similarly, this page read like glue water), so this was just a kick ass space adventure. Loved everything about it, except Winona Ryder. It's kind of weird that she's somehow crossed into that persona of someone unable to be a regular actor anymore. The whole time I was like "Oh, Winona Ryder. Okay."

Other then that, holy shit, when do I get more?

Lindelof recently said they'll start putting a script together a few months after he's done with LOST.

He write and produce the next one (he produced the first).

 

[gdt]

Originally summer 2011, but its now rumored to be summer 2012.

Yeah, I read somewhere where Lindelof said 2012 (3 years) is the sweet spot.

 

[JGS]

It's FINALLY up for rent on XBLM on which I finally saw it this morning.

Fucking outstanding. I know next to nothing of the original Star Trek lore (and yeah, similarly, this page read like glue water), so this was just a kick ass space adventure. Loved everything about it, except Winona Ryder. It's kind of weird that she's somehow crossed into that persona of someone unable to be a regular actor anymore. The whole time I was like "Oh, Winona Ryder. Okay."

Other then that, holy shit, when do I get more?

I bought the Blu-Ray a couple of weeks ago and just saw it last night. Very good movie, definitely my favorite Star Trek. However, I had no idea Winona Ryder was in it.

It was very un-JJ Abrams like (except the beginning mix of action and emotion) and much more like Star Trek which should be expected.

Spock was great. Kirk was a stereotypical rebel but good. The supporting cast were better actors than the ones they replaced.

My biggest problem was the amount of bloom and glare. It's like they were doing an Xbox tech demo.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

So my wife and I watched the movie last night for the first time. Firstly, neither her nor I are huge fans of Star Trek but we were blown away. She told me, "I want to goto Comic Con next year and meet Leonard Nemoi. I love him!" Seriously, the movie was amazing.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

Watched this finally. Pretty impressed. Certainly wasn't a Star Trek fan before.

 

[Synth_floyd]

In the sequel I want to see one of two things. Either:

A) A plot about discovery or some unknown thing or exploration (think ST 1 or 5 but actually done well).

or

B) Some badass Klingons. The TOS Klingons are really simplistic baddies that are against the Federation for no real reason, but in TNG they really expanded upon the race and gave them the sense of honor, the ridges, weapons, culture, etc. So take the fleshed out Klingons and make them the bad guys again. And make them tough, not comedic like they were usually portrayed in the movies (ST 1, 5, 7, 3 was iffy, they were kind of badass but Christopher Lloyd was the lead Klingon).

It would be cool if they did a story with Klingons that are actually working for the Klingon Empire. All the times that Klingons are encountered in ST, they're always kind of working on their own and trying to kill Kirk for personal reasons or just for fun. So instead of a "Starfleet and Enterprise vs. some Klingons" story, it'd be cool to see a plot about "Starfleet and Enterprise vs. some Klingons and the Klingon Empire."

What I don't want:

A) Time travel. They shouldn't do another time travel plot for at least 20 years.
B) Khan. The character has no history in the new timeline. Wouldn't really make sense, plus it's been done and I want to see new stories, not just remaking old stories.
C) A villain storyline. Except Khan, Star Trek villains are always pretty lame. It's always some random guy who has a beef with Kirk or Starfleet and they have to kill him. Think outside the box, guys.

 

[Mgoblue201]

It's funny that you think Enterprise is somehow unique in disrupting the canon of the shows that preceded it.

Enterprise is unique in having a false respect for previous canon. It's obvious that they tried to shove previous Trek cliches into the show based on technicalities - for instance, a Ferengi episode, but no one really knew who they were. Not only was the show uninspired and reliant on past Trek conventions, but it's actually a very lame way to uphold canon.

 

[Anticitizen One]

If the Klingons are in part 2 they should be like a 3rd party and not the main enemy of the ST crew. Klingons are too cheesy/nerdy for most people (including me)

 

[The Librarian]

If the Klingons are in part 2 they should be like a 3rd party and not the main enemy of the ST crew. Klingons are too cheesy/nerdy for most people (including me)

lulz

 

[Defcon]

It is definitely a much better movie than TDK.

 

[jett]

It is definitely a much better movie than TDK.

i lol'd.

 

[Blader]

I just watched this movie again last weekend, for the first time since I saw it in theaters. Still liked it, though not as much when I first saw it.

The one thing that I still like as much--if not more--is the cast. Goddamn, what a great ensemble, especially for a blockbuster.

 

[Tobor]

If the Klingons are in part 2 they should be like a 3rd party and not the main enemy of the ST crew. Klingons are too cheesy/nerdy for most people (including me)

SMH.

 

[Messypandas]

I think we all know what the sequel should be about

Spoiler

TRIBBLES

 

[Anticitizen One]

SMH.

what does SMH mean??

 

[Solo]

Despite buying the BD day one, I just finally had the time to give it a spin this afternoon. Great disc overall, although there were a few instances where the image got really soft.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Despite buying the BD day one, I just finally had the time to give it a spin this afternoon. Great disc overall, although there were a few instances where the image got really soft.

Get to the behind the scenes docs already! ;P

 

[Zenith]

I hope they don't make the Klingons pussy out and become our allies at the end of the next movie. Like how Predator got pussified in all his subsequent movies. We hate each other with a never-endong passion. That's the way it should be in the 22nd century.

 

[The Librarian]

what does SMH mean??

SMH.

 

[Solo]

Get to the behind the scenes docs already! ;P

I did! They seemed to cover pretty much every base EXCEPT CG :lol Poor ILM
Got a major laugh from Zachory Quinto at the end of the gag reel. "If I dont make it, please tell Lieutenant Uhura that I love her...vagine"

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Hey now, we had plenty of snippets in there. Nothing really too in-detail, sure, but more than you let on.

 

[Tobor]

I hope they don't make the Klingons pussy out and become our allies at the end of the next movie. Like how Predator got pussified in all his subsequent movies. We hate each other with a never-endong passion. That's the way it should be in the 22nd century.

The next generation was responsible for the wussification of the Klingons. Now Abrahams can right that most grievous wrong.

 

[The Librarian]

The next generation was responsible for the wussification of the Klingons. Now Abrahams can right that most grievous wrong.

TNG Klingons>>>>TOS Klingons.