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RPG Hangout

RydonStarLives

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I've started replaying FF8 again. Got about 20 hours into it before some [REAL LIFE BULLSHIT] came up and I paused.

I honestly really enjoy like the game, maybe even more than VII. I find that I care a lot more about the characters and really dig the experimental qualities of the plot.

Squall is a classic edgelord but it suits him because he's an arrogant teenager who doesn't understand how to handle the responsible he's given. It's realistic to consider him being in that situation rather than in more straightforward games where characters handle going out to save the world with no obvious psychological issues.

Then you have thoughtful scenes like where Selphie is simply enjoying being on a train. Or the random conversations that break out between Rinoa and Squall.

FF8 really considers those small moments, not just the grand adventure.

The junction system also adds an extra layer of depth to the gameplay, as well as the brilliantly fun mini-game: Triple Triad.
Yeah, I know in your other post you mentioned Evangelion impacting Japanense RPGs, or at least Final Fantasy, and you can see that with FF VII and VIII (hell there is some old Eva armor/suit in the background of FF VII). I remember being a kid and thinking about how much depth the games (VII, VIII) had, due to the fact I couldn't understand what the hell was going on. :messenger_tears_of_joy: Now, going back and playing those I still really like them, but I can tell some of the plot confusion was with translation, at least for FF VII.

I do enjoy VIII as well, as the overall tone and feeling are something unique. The world is what I like to call, goofy 90's FF world, where people with swords clash (and are victorious) against people with sub machine guns. There is some steam punk, cyber punk, sci fi, and even medieval influences in almost all the backgrounds and areas. It really is fantastical and other worldly.
Part of me just wants to play VIII and enjoy everything and soak in the game, and the other part of me wants to break the junction system in the first 2 hours of the game and become god emperor on the battle field. I guess that is what makes video games one of a kind though, you can have immersion, and you can also break it due to how the game is structured.
 

ROMhack

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Yeah, I know in your other post you mentioned Evangelion impacting Japanense RPGs, or at least Final Fantasy, and you can see that with FF VII and VIII (hell there is some old Eva armor/suit in the background of FF VII). I remember being a kid and thinking about how much depth the games (VII, VIII) had, due to the fact I couldn't understand what the hell was going on. :messenger_tears_of_joy: Now, going back and playing those I still really like them, but I can tell some of the plot confusion was with translation, at least for FF VII.

I do enjoy VIII as well, as the overall tone and feeling are something unique. The world is what I like to call, goofy 90's FF world, where people with swords clash (and are victorious) against people with sub machine guns. There is some steam punk, cyber punk, sci fi, and even medieval influences in almost all the backgrounds and areas. It really is fantastical and other worldly.
Part of me just wants to play VIII and enjoy everything and soak in the game, and the other part of me wants to break the junction system in the first 2 hours of the game and become god emperor on the battle field. I guess that is what makes video games one of a kind though, you can have immersion, and you can also break it due to how the game is structured.
Otherworldly is an excellent description. I love the architecture of the Gardens for example. It's so cool!

Strangely, what it reminds me of the setting of Dino Crisis in so far as being an imaginative centralised complex (I can't think of a better description).

I've heard the junction system is totally broken but this is my first time playing it so I'm not sure how to do go about breaking it. I've read on a few forums though that makes the game very replaying owing to the fact you can approach it in different ways.
 
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RydonStarLives

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Otherworldly is an excellent description. I love the architecture of the Gardens for example. It's so cool!

Strangely, what it reminds me of the setting of Dino Crisis in so far as being an imaginative centralised complex (I can't think of a better description).

I've heard the junction system is totally broken but this is my first time playing it so I'm not sure how to do go about breaking it. I've read on a few forums though that makes the game very replaying owing to the fact you can approach it in different ways.
Yes, the Junction system can be broken with fantastic effect. Also, I'm not sure you know this already, but the monsters level with you in FF VIII, so the higher level you are, the harder the monsters. You need to get better spells (from higher monsters) in order to get better stats (by junctioning) and so the game level progresses. This is why you can break FF VIII by getting high level spells early (through the card ability and so on), not leveling up, and then junctioning the high level spells. Pretty cool stuff to look into.
Anyway, hope you enjoy the playthrough. You have me wanting to dust off my copy of FF VIII now, but I am still trying to get through FF V. I probably need to consult a walkthrough.
 
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MadokaAngelWing

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Aug 21, 2019
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I find myself playing rpgs that I've already completed multiple times. My backlog of games keep building as I still need to complete Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE, Xenosaga, Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter, Dragon Quest 11, and World of Final Fantasy.
 
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I am currently playing through Trails in the Sky right now and I hope to get back to Tokyo Mirage Sessions. Unfortunately I think I need to restart TMS since I haven’t played it in quite some time. Then onto P5 on the PS3. The Superior version!
 

Rya.Reisender

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Ah, the good old RPG genre. Unfortunately it's going a bit downhill for me lately as the games seem to become more and more dialogue heavy and get more and more overly complex mechanics added to them. Both things that are popular these days, but I don't really enjoy much. Also dungeon design has become so simple it's just no longer fun for me.

It's still my most-played genre, guess I just don't know when to give up. The last game I really loved was Undertale. And before that I guess Star Ocean The Last Hope / Eternal Sonata / Fragile Dreams? That's already 10 years ago...

Well at least some indie JRPGs were quite decent like CrossCode, Cosmic Star Heroine and Shadows of Adam.

And of course dungeon crawlers are back in business since Legend of Grimrock. Yay.
 

MadokaAngelWing

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I never got to finish Eternal Sonata due to my xbox not wanting to work. I can't remember if it was from a red ring or my Uncle that did it.
 

ROMhack

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I thought Eternal Sonata was a fun game. Not in the top echelon of RPGs but pretty neat, a lot like the Tales Of games tbh.

That era had a few of those. Resonance of Fate and Blue Dragoon spring to mind.
 
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RydonStarLives

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I thought Eternal Sonata was a fun game. Not in the top echelon of RPGs but pretty neat, a lot like the Tales Of games tbh.

That era had a few of those. Resonance of Fate and Blue Dragoon spring to mind.
I tried two times to get into Blue Dragon, but both times the choppy framerate within the battles just drove me nuts. I still have Lost Odyssey, Resonance of Fate, Folklore, Eternal Sonata, and couple of FFs to get through from last gen RPGs.
 
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ROMhack

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I tried two times to get into Blue Dragon, but both times the choppy framerate within the battles just drove me nuts. I still have Lost Odyssey, Resonance of Fate, Folklore, Eternal Sonata, and couple of FFs to get through from last gen RPGs.
Folklore! That's another.

Resonance of Fate is pretty unique because of the battle system. I hear great things about Lost Odyssey but haven't played it myself.
 
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Rya.Reisender

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I always had problem liking recent Tales of... games while I really like all the tri-Ace / tri-Crescendo games. It's hard to point my finger at it, but Tales of... feels kind of menu-heavy and has a lot of generic anime dialogue, while tri-Ace / tri-Crescendo games all seems to have this kind of gameplay flow I like and the dialogues are much more simplified and sometimes hilarious.

It's funny you're all talking mostly about XBox360 JRPGS. Are we boycotting Sony because of censorship?

Interesting to note that Eternal Sonata on XBox360 was fairly easy, but I loved it. Apparently the PS3 version is much much harder and made a lot people end up frustrated and never finish the game. Though other player say they like the PS3 version more because of the difficulty. I'm glad I got the XBox360 version, though.
 
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MadokaAngelWing

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The Sony censorship isn't really a problem for me due to the amount Neptunia games I have on the ps3/ps4/psvita. Looking at my physical games on my desk the only rpg for xbox I own is Final Fantasy 13.
 

RydonStarLives

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The Sony censorship isn't really a problem for me due to the amount Neptunia games I have on the ps3/ps4/psvita. Looking at my physical games on my desk the only rpg for xbox I own is Final Fantasy 13.
Of all the PS3/XBOX360 JRPGs you pick for 360, you pick FF XIII?! Sony's bread and butter! :messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:

Although, being completely honest, I really dislike FF XIII, and feel like that is where Square really lost their grip on creating a good,, stand out game. It is really a mediocre game with really nice graphics (for the time).
 

MadokaAngelWing

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Of all the PS3/XBOX360 JRPGs you pick for 360, you pick FF XIII?! Sony's bread and butter! :messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:

Although, being completely honest, I really dislike FF XIII, and feel like that is where Square really lost their grip on creating a good,, stand out game. It is really a mediocre game with really nice graphics (for the time).
Honestly FFXIII isn't the worst rpg I've played. FFXIII-2 and FFX-2 are probably my least favorite rpgs. I would have said lord of the rings the third age as well but it's battle system is literally FFX's battle system and I've grown to like FFX due to the remaster
 
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Rya.Reisender

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I actually liked FFXIII quite a bit. I felt like someone read my complaints about how much I hate towns in RPGs beause it's so much reading with no action and then decided to make a game that doesn't have any. It was like an interactive action movie with great RPG combat and nice music. I always jokingly said FFXIII is the sequel to The Bouncer (which I also liked unlike everyone else).
 

MadokaAngelWing

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I actually liked FFXIII quite a bit. I felt like someone read my complaints about how much I hate towns in RPGs beause it's so much reading with no action and then decided to make a game that doesn't have any. It was like an interactive action movie with great RPG combat and nice music. I always jokingly said FFXIII is the sequel to The Bouncer (which I also liked unlike everyone else).
I'll admit The Bouncer is a guilty pleasure game along with Dirge of Cerberus and Castlevania Judgment. Are they good games not really no, but I enjoyed playing these games so much.
 

RydonStarLives

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I've playing through Shining Force III for the Saturn and it's an amazing game - don't know how I missed it the first time around. Been meaning to replay FFIX after finishing VIII again but the last 20 years of JRPG design might have ruined the game for me.
Could you elaborate on last 20 years of JRPG design? What aspects are hard to go back to? Like SavePoints? I have a love/hate relationship with SavePoints
 
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RydonStarLives

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Yeah, I still have a fondness for SavePoints but I know how a lot of people cannot stand them. I always like having a checkpoint I know that I reached and will go back to, and I cannot think of many games that do that these days except for DarksSouls/BloodBorne (and now Sekiro). With Quest Markers, I agree. I hate starting up a RPG I am playing and not remembering exactly what I need to be doing again, and I have no journal or anything to go off of. Of course, I also blame myself for not dedicating some more time to the game as well. :)
 

Rya.Reisender

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Honestly, quest markers are what ruin RPGs for me. I like the SaGa Frontier exploration style where you just walk around randomly and talk to everyone and then suddenly something happens and you are thrilled.

I feel the same about MMORPGs. I used to love Ragnarok Online because there were only few quests and they were well hidden and the only point to do them was für a cosmetic item or lore details. It allowed you to just write your own story and role play it. I could make up a story why I needed to go to place X and search for a party for it, then we all went together and had a lot of fun.

Nowadays, all MMORPGs are quest-driven. You just walk from quest marker to quest marker, collect as many quests as you can and then try to resolve them as effectively as possible. It doesn't feel like having fun to me anymore. It's basically work. You have a checklist of things to do and do them. Partying up? Nearly impossible, because you will usually get the "Sorry, I'm doing a different quest right now" reply because it's just not efficient to just kill monsters without a quest. Even when there are instances and a party finder, you can't really have fun with your party, because everybody just rushes through the dungeon to the boss, trying to complete it as fast as possible, rather than sitting around, talking, getting to know each other and stuff.
 
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RydonStarLives

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That is an interesting take on the Quest Markers, and I see your point on it. I also am more driven with just loading up on quest and then going out and doing them. Once one is done, I just go to the next one, etc. I guess my main issue with the older RPGs is what I stated earlier, when I am walking around and have no clue what I am supposed to be doing in order to further the plot. Maybe there is a good way to marry the two without a crutch like quest markers.
 

ROMhack

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RE: Savepoints. This is one of the reason I played a lot of older RPGs on my PSP. You can just put it in standby mode and pick it back up when you're ready.
 
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Rya.Reisender

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I guess my main issue with the older RPGs is what I stated earlier, when I am walking around and have no clue what I am supposed to be doing in order to further the plot.
But that's kind of part of the charm. It's the principle of suffering makes the reward feel even better. If you walk around aimlessly, that might not be fun itself, but when you actually find something, then you're much happier than you ever would be if you just walked to the next NPC that's marked on the minimap.

Again referring to MMORPG, I always explain it with grinding for a 0.01% drop in Ragnarok Online. Killing thousands of monsters of the same type every day just to get that one item is not fun in itself. It's boring and tedious and everything inside yourself is asking "Why are you doing this?", but if you endure until the item actually really drops the feeling of joy is overwhelming.

So basically the more you suffer, the better you will feel in the end.

Quest markers on the other hand leave you with a static feeling. You don't suffer, but you also don't feel any joy when reaching the next NPC.

I guess there are people who just enjoy a static feeling more. Most of the time however I think that they simply haven't experienced the kind of joy I'm referring to properly yet.

Maybe there is a good way to marry the two without a crutch like quest markers.
I guess you could have other NPCs give you directions. And generally have a world where there's something to do everywhere rather than having to find one single NPC hiding in one of the 20 towns that progresses the story.

But I still have my doubts on the concept of quests itself. Why does a player need someone to tell him what to do to enjoy a game? Is there no joy gotten from just exploring a big, beautiful world? Or just getting know the NPCs better? Or just fighting for something YOU think is right?

Maybe not everyone can enjoy it...
On saturday and sunday I actually go for a walk for one hour. I don't take any technology with me. Nobody is telling me to do it. I don't even end up saving the world. Still I enjoy it very much.
 

Rya.Reisender

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My problem with some older rpgs is trying to remember what memory card had what data on them
If I go back replaying an old RPG, I always start from the start, so I don't really have that issue.
I actually find it pretty hard jumping into a game right in the middle. Without any tutorial and my muscle memory remembering how to survive in the game, I suck too much. I guess with really old games it was still possible though, as they were pretty simple. Well at least with JRPGs. Going back into old WRPGs...... not gonna happen.
 

MadokaAngelWing

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While I do enjoy FF and DQ I love the challenge and feeling of relief after every boss in some of the Atlus rpgs like SMT Nocturne, Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE, and Persona.
 

Komatsu

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Honestly, quest markers are what ruin RPGs for me. I like the SaGa Frontier exploration style where you just walk around randomly and talk to everyone and then suddenly something happens and you are thrilled.

I feel the same about MMORPGs. I used to love Ragnarok Online because there were only few quests and they were well hidden and the only point to do them was für a cosmetic item or lore details. It allowed you to just write your own story and role play it. I could make up a story why I needed to go to place X and search for a party for it, then we all went together and had a lot of fun.

Nowadays, all MMORPGs are quest-driven. You just walk from quest marker to quest marker, collect as many quests as you can and then try to resolve them as effectively as possible. It doesn't feel like having fun to me anymore. It's basically work. You have a checklist of things to do and do them. Partying up? Nearly impossible, because you will usually get the "Sorry, I'm doing a different quest right now" reply because it's just not efficient to just kill monsters without a quest. Even when there are instances and a party finder, you can't really have fun with your party, because everybody just rushes through the dungeon to the boss, trying to complete it as fast as possible, rather than sitting around, talking, getting to know each other and stuff.
That’s a valid point when discussing sandbox-style RPGs or the MMOs, but the lack of some direction is absolutely infuriating in older, single-player games of the 8-bit, 16-bit and (bizarrely!) even the 32-bit eras.

I play most of my RPGs on their original hardware and I realize I can never drop, say, Phantasy Star (1987, Master System) for a few days or I won’t remember what to do. This afflicts even some modern day RPGs, where the lack of a journal prevents one to simply pick up the plot where you left.

I am glad you loved SaGa but, personally, I loathe the Akitoshi “I don’t care about the player’s time” Kawazu school of JRPGs.
 

MadokaAngelWing

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I'm so excited! The announcement of Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE Encore makes me so happy I can play the game on my switch soonish and not have to go two towns over to use my friends WiiU to play it.
 

Tako Ou

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Anyone played any of the Dragon Quest port on mobile (android?) ? Not really interested about VIII, asking about I to VI.
Was that enjoyable ? Anything to know ?

If it was cheaper I would just test them out by myself but man... these prices !
 
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RydonStarLives

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Anyone played any of the Dragon Quest port on mobile (android?) ? Not really interested about VIII, asking about I to VI.
Was that enjoyable ? Anything to know ?

If it was cheaper I would just test them out by myself but man... these prices !
Yeah, I have DQ1 on my phone, and sadly it is the only version of DQ1 I have beaten. I don't think it is a horrible port, I just feel ... dirty. So, to answer your question, yeah, I liked DQ1 on the Android port, but keep in mind this was a few years back, and also DQ1 is pretty basic, so it isn't that hard to screw up. They added some "nice to have" features like clicking an interact button to talk, and I think you can go over stairs and it will automatically go down them.
As an aside, I also grabbed FF 1 on Android, and I can't really play it. The game goes WAY too fast, and I have found no way to slow it down. I think it was programmed for older phones back in the day, and now that phones are much faster the battles just fly. I can't even read what happens.
 

Rya.Reisender

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Unlimited Saga is like the hardest to get into. But I love it too. I also like Pen&Paper and board games, though.

Romancing SaGa 3 and SaGa Frontier 1 are in my opinion the best games to get into SaGa.

I'm going into SaGa Scarlet Grace completely blind. Been avoiding any kind of videos. Though I do know that the whole game plays on the world map. No towns and no dungeons. But I trust Akitoshi Kawazu.
 

ROMhack

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Been playing more of FF8 and it's becoming apparent that the story is fairly ridiculous. I loved how it started but it's getting more and more nonsensical as it goes on.

I'm hoping it all comes together in the end but I'm starting to see why people criticised it so heavily (I still really like the gameplay).
 
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