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RTTP: Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (spoilers)

As soon as Metal Gear Scanlon 4 started over on Giantbomb, I got tired of waiting for Drew to get through the game, especially 1 hour at a time, so I just decided to boot the game up myself again shortly after their first episode went up. Just finished it again recently, and it did feel new all over again because I hadn't really played through it to completion since close to when it came out. When it first came out, I remember loving it, and just being really satisfied with how it answered a lot of the questions that were nagging at me since the series started the whole mess with the Patriots in MGS2.

Going back to it again, it felt new in terms of gameplay, but I also got some different perspective, because I know some parts of the internet don't like how everything was basically nanomachines. I don't know if my current opinion has been influenced by some of the reactions I've read online, maybe they have. During this recent play through though, I found I was a bit annoyed how everything was wrapped up in being explained by nanomachines. It frustrated me also how they basically say Snake has the same nanomachines in him from Shadow Moses, even though they clearly say in MGS1 that they are shortly going to die out after his mission is over.

My biggest problem with playing it again, and even when it first came out has been Naomi. Seriously SHUT THE FUCK UP Naomi. She talks like she's the fucking second coming of christ, and everything she says carries so much weight, and she knows everything. Talking about what Snake MUST do, and what his fate is. Shut the hell up! She created Vamp, bull shit, and why'd she have to keep her master plan to wipe the AI system a secret from Otacon, and Snake, and when exactly did she work on it with Sunny. Ugh. It's a huge toss up for me if Naomi, or the future tech in MGS4 frustrate me more.

There are hints of future tech in MGS4, that annoy me also like how it's just so easy to replace human body parts and rebuild cyborgs I guess. This the same reason I've never been a fan of Metal Gear Rising much, where I guess it's possible to just transplant human brains now -_- I'm sorry, but I feel there are some elements of medicine we will never master, and rebuilding a human body, or transplanting a brain are some of them, and it takes me out of the setting so much when they expect me to swallow that kind of BS. The same with SOP actually. Give me a break that every military organization in the world, would allow themselves to be blanketed under the same system.

These complaints I have with MGS4 though, while playing an integral part of the story, I do still like the game as a whole. The central conflicts within MGS4, and the message it tries to convey at times. I like the whole message of how war can create monsters with the Beauty and the Beast squad, I like the conflict between Snake and Liquid. I like the attention to character growth they do, and how well thought everything is about the world the inhabit is. It's probably the most faulted of the MGS games, but that's still leaps better than a lot of games made. Metal Gear Solid is one of my favorite game series, and works of fiction for a reason, and even if this one is one of the weaker entries, it's doesn't ruin the series by any means. It's still also a hell of a lot of fun to play, and I loved the nostalgia trip going through Shadow Moses in Act 4. I'm glad I replayed this before Phantom Pain came out, it's been long enough that it felt kind of all new again.
 
It's political commentary, don't take it to mean that technology is actually moving in that direction, or that that's what the dev team thinks. It's about the disposability of the soldier, and Ocelot's desire to emancipate those whose lives have always been about war.

Which itself is a miniature version of MGS2's themes of emancipating yourself in a more general sense.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Act 1 - Great

Act 2 - Great

Act 3 - Weird change of pace, different, would still be great if not for the most annoying boss fight in the series

Act 4 - Nostalgia/10 (no human guards and Mount Snakemore take some points away, the dual screen with Raiden during the Vamp/Gekko fight was some awesome stuff though. Also, this is the act that gave us goofy Liquid Ocelot running.gif)

1271881653359.gif


Act 5 - Good (Starts off annoying, bad Johnny/Meryl scene, then ramps up to arguably the best final sequence in the series)

Ending -
Bullshit
 
Ohh man, I would love an awesome high quality "lets play" of MGS4. Haven't seen any good ones where you can enjoy the story without the player talking.
 

Reebot

Member
Acts 1 and 2 are great, you can kind of see the origin of the open battlefield stealth Kojima Productions seems to push for Phantom Pain.

Act 3 is critically boring. I like the Raging Raven fight but everything else just puts the player to bed.

Act 4 pick it back up, but the absence of human enemies hugely disappoints.

Act 5 barely exists outside of expository cutscenes. Good boss fight, nice set pieces, but overall lacking.

Its the weakest Metal Gear but that still puts it leagues beyond most games.
 
Ohh man, I would love an awesome high quality "lets play" of MGS4. Haven't seen any good ones where you can enjoy the story without the player talking.

Just watch Metal Gear Scanlon 4 at Giantbomb while they play it. It's premium content, so you have to be a paid member, and they're only 3 episodes in, but they usually do keep quiet during the cutscenes. Usually. Drew is not a very good metal gear player though, so it might frustrate you watching him play, but it's still funny sometimes.
 
Act 1 - Great

Act 2 - Great

Act 3 - Weird change of pace, different, would still be great if not for the most annoying boss fight in the series

Act 4 - Nostalgia/10 (no human guards and Mount Snakemore take some points away, the dual screen with Raiden during the Vamp/Gekko fight was some awesome stuff though. Also, this is the act that gave us goofy Liquid Ocelot running.gif)

1271881653359.gif


Act 5 - Good (Starts off annoying, bad Johnny/Meryl scene, then ramps up to arguably the best final sequence in the series)

Ending -
Bullshit

Agree with you on everything, except the ending which I think was
perfect
 
Agree with you on everything, except the ending which I think was
perfect

I actually agree with that too. While it kinda drags in some spots, I thought it was the perfect closure to
Snake and Big Boss. I was glad to see that there was no more animosity between them, and Big Boss saw how he was just as much at fault as Zero. Some people think it should have ended when Snake pulled the trigger, but I strongly disagree. Snake blowing his brains out would been fucking terrible way to end it, because he didn't deserve that.

And holy shit, even years later when Big Boss says "this is good, isn't it?" and that song kicks in...so damn emotional
 

Eggbok

Member
MGS4 was my first MGS game, my first experience with Snake. I had no idea what the series was about or what was happening.
I just remember watching gameplay for the first time where the GEKKO attack and I was instantly sold.
I think it was also the first time I experienced stealthy gameplay. One of my favorite games from last gen.
 
MGS4 was my first MGS game, my first experience with Snake. I had no idea what the series was about or what was happening.
I just remember watching gameplay for the first time where the GEKKO attack and I was instantly sold.
I think it was also the first time I experienced stealthy gameplay. One of my favorite games from last gen.

Glad you enjoyed it. I found the boss fights a little disappointing especially after 3 but its probably still the best MGS game ever. Improved boss fights and no monkey and you got a perfect game.
 
I actually agree with that too. While it kinda drags in some spots, I thought it was the perfect closure to
Snake and Big Boss. I was glad to see that there was no more animosity between them, and Big Boss saw how he was just as much at fault as Zero. Some people think it should have ended when Snake pulled the trigger, but I strongly disagree. Snake blowing his brains out would been fucking terrible way to end it, because he didn't deserve that.

And holy shit, even years later when Big Boss says "this is good, isn't it?" and that song kicks in...so damn emotional

Could not have described it better ;)
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I take it back. The ending was perfect. Raiden named his son Little John.
YEEEAAHHHH

In all seriousness, I think Raiden's ending was actually perfect for the direction that they took with him in 4, although it was subsequently ruined by Rising. And this picture of Raiden in totally not threatening civilian clothes always makes me lol.

338px-Raiden_Civilian_Family.jpg


Big Boss being alive felt very contrived, as did Liquid Ocelot not really being Liquid. It was cool to see Big Boss clear up things with Snake, but it made the red herrings feel really forced (actually, that was the corpse of Solidus; actually, that wasn't Liquid's spirit) and the explanation behind Ocelot's self hypnosis was... something else.
 
In all seriousness, I think Raiden's ending was actually perfect for the direction that they took with him in 4, although it was subsequently ruined by Rising. And this picture of Raiden in totally not threatening civilian clothes always makes me lol.

Ugh, yeah, yet another reason I didn't care for Rising. Fortunately that game isn't canon.
 

enigmatic_alex44

Whenever a game uses "middleware," I expect mediocrity. Just see how poor TLOU looks.
Fortunately that game isn't canon.

Isn't it? I thought it was stated it was canon.

I hated that they had Rising take place after 4 which was such a great finale to the series, especially seeing Raiden
get that civilian body
at the end.
 
Isn't it? I thought it was stated it was canon.

I hated that they had Rising take place after 4 which was such a great finale to the series, especially seeing Raiden
get that civilian body
at the end.

I don't remember exactly when and where they said it wasn't canon, but if you play one of the extra missions in MGS5 ground zeroes, there are MGS game titles spread across the map. All games that are canonical, if you shine a blue light on them, they disappear. All games that are on the map, that are NOT canonical, like metal gear acid, portable ops, etc...since they're not canon, they don't react to the blue light. Metal Gear Rising is among the game titles that do not disappear when the light shines on them.
 

Catalix

And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
It frustrated me also how they basically say Snake has the same nanomachines in him from Shadow Moses, even though they clearly say in MGS1 that they are shortly going to die out after his mission is over.
Heh yeah, a lot of people seem to forget the part about nanomachines having a limited battery life in MGS1, including Kojima. It's probably one of the more damaging retcons in the Metal Gear lore.

My biggest problem with playing it again, and even when it first came out has been Naomi. Seriously SHUT THE FUCK UP Naomi. She talks like she's the fucking second coming of christ, and everything she says carries so much weight, and she knows everything. Talking about what Snake MUST do, and what his fate is. Shut the hell up! She created Vamp, bull shit, and why'd she have to keep her master plan to wipe the AI system a secret from Otacon, and Snake, and when exactly did she work on it with Sunny. Ugh. It's a huge toss up for me if Naomi, or the future tech in MGS4 frustrate me more.
Agreed! What they did to Naomi's character in MGS4 was totally bizarre and unnecessary. Her sudden role as a know-it-all busybody who's directly connected to a bunch of critical subplots was just taking things too far for me. She used to be one of my favorite characters in the series too...
 

TheXbox

Member
One of my favorites from last gen. A fucking tour de force of insanity, like every stupid idea Kojima ever had just smushed into this twelve hour rollercoaster. The microwave crawl, the Metal Gear fight, the motorcycle chase, those dumbass commercials in the opening... fuck. It's so good.

My only major complaint I have is that I wish there were more stealth. After the second act it pretty much devolves into: cutscene -> setpiece -> boss fight -> cutscene. The fifth act should've been longer. And Snake should've killed himself.
 

dhonk

Member
Love the gameplay early on, hate everything else. (Story and later chapters.)

Also love the massive budget, theres so much silly bullshit. Like being able to inspect really high fidelity (for the time) models, the interactive briefings, etc.
 

Prine

Banned
This was fairly mediocre I thought, Act 1&2 being great then taking a sudden nose dive thereafter. I despise MGS2 and this game almost came close to it in terms of disappointment and pacing. Didn't like old snake, coke drinking shop guy..feels like the formula was.getting real boring, boss battles were nothing like 3, egg frying ad (wtf) but the throwback Shadow Moses was well done. Really scared of MGS5 after e3 trailer, looks like a complete mess of a story. I don't have the time i used to so I'm really hoping there's something reasonably gripping to playthrough, and is completely different from 4.
 
I downloaded a save file so I could mess around with some of the unlockables after I beat it, and as usual, Metal Gear Solid wins in having some silly fun things to do after you beat the games. How many games have a gun that will occasionally shoot a fucking tornado at enemies? lol

At the time, this Altair costumes was kinda cool, cuz it looked like Assassin's Creed might be a good stealth series...now though, fuck assassin's creed lol
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I downloaded a save file so I could mess around with some of the unlockables after I beat it, and as usual, Metal Gear Solid wins in having some silly fun things to do after you beat the games. How many games have a gun that will occasionally shoot a fucking tornado at enemies? lol

At the time, this Altair costumes was kinda cool, cuz it looked like Assassin's Creed might be a good stealth series...now though, fuck assassin's creed lol
The iPod unlockables are some cool stuff, too. Zanzibar Breeze all day.
 

heringer

Member
The plot is full of nonense but I still love it and it is my favorite game last generation and one of my favorite games ever. I wish they would port this to PC or at least PS4.
 

TheBowen

Sat alone in a boggy marsh
Its a great game to end the series on as it ties up most loose ends.

As an actual game though theres not much to it besides fan service in my opinion but i loved it all the same, and enjoyed every new character and almost every cutscene
 
Try platinuming this game.
Freaking no-kill no-continue no-alert sub 5 hour run through was insane. All for a bonus song on your in-game ipod. No one uses ipods anymore Kojima!
 
Yeah Naomi sucks. I hated her in MGS1 and MGS4 made me hate her 10000x more. I didn't feel bad at all
when she died.
I actually agree with that too. While it kinda drags in some spots, I thought it was the perfect closure to
Snake and Big Boss. I was glad to see that there was no more animosity between them, and Big Boss saw how he was just as much at fault as Zero. Some people think it should have ended when Snake pulled the trigger, but I strongly disagree. Snake blowing his brains out would been fucking terrible way to end it, because he didn't deserve that.

And holy shit, even years later when Big Boss says "this is good, isn't it?" and that song kicks in...so damn emotional
Yup. The ending was perfect.
When I was playing it all I could think of during the end was how much it would suck if snake killed himself. And then when I heard the gunshot and then the wedding scene and then the credits I said NOOOOOOOOOOOO. Then the Big Boss -Richard Doyle credit showed up and I was like OH SHIT. Then Big Boss showed up: YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. The rest is history. A game's never done that to me before and I still think MGS4 has probably the best game ending of all time. FEELS man.
 
I can't take anyone seriously when they say the ending was perfect. Utterly inane bullshit is what it was.

I played the game straight through when I got it on launch and actually ended up falling asleep during the ending just after
Big Boss
started talking. Looking back, I wish I hadn't beaten it again once I woke up to see what I'd missed.

There are some great moments and it's mostly a fun game for sure but the plot just totally falls to pieces and drags a lot of stuff from older games down with it if you think about it for more than two seconds.
 

Crypt

Member
MGS4 was one of those games that was amazing on the first playthrough, and then slowly you start to pick it apart later and ruin it for yourself. I still love it. I think it's the weakest in the series, but that doesn't mean it's bad.

Act 3 gets shit on a lot, but I think it's probably one of the best stealth sequences of the series because you actually HAVE to be stealthy to progress. it was also interesting to finally see MGS in the context of a city instead of remote outposts and abandoned areas.

With act 4 they took the possibility for some really nice nostalgia and crapped all over it by not putting a single human NPC in. But you do get to pilot a metal gear, and the battle with Crying Wolf is really amazing. I honestly don't think it gets enough credit for how good it is. It's not as good as The End, but man it's a really good sniper battle. The thing that annoyed me about the Rex and Ray fight is they completely spoiled it in the trailers. If I'd have never known about that, it would have been the most insane thing to first find out you get to pilot Rex, and then later find out that you also get to fight Ray. This act also hosts one of the stupidest plot points of the game for me. Raiden gets trapped under some rubble and is forced to cut his arm off. Then not more than 3 minutes later, he stops a friggin' aircraft carrier with one arm. Why couldn't he handle the rubble then?
 
-The boss battles were fine, but the bosses didn't directly relate to Snake or the Patriots enough.
-There should've been another Ocelot directly tortures Snake scene.
-Snake should've started off from his MGS2 self first, then age through the game.
-Better comedy was needed. Johnny stuff stopped being funny in this game. And that monkey is cringe.
-The world is colored worse than BF3.
 

Muffdraul

Member
I totally agree that Acts 1 & 2 are the best in the game, but I don't dislike the other acts. It probably would have been smarter to swap Act 2 with Act 3, so that the two epic missions weren't back to back at the front of the game. They just would have had to move the Naomi/Raiden events to Eastern Europe, and move the Big Mama/Ocelot events so South America.

I wish the first section of Act 5 was much longer and complex, more like an homage/update to the Tanker chapter of MGS2. Not just sneaking around the deck, but also entering interiors, cabins, holds, etc. That's what I thought I was getting the first time I started Act 5, and was really disappointed that the infiltration segment was so damn short.

But overall, MGS4 was one of my most hyped games in history, as soon as I saw the TGS 2005 trailer I was totally invested, and the game more than lived up to the hype for me. I played through it like four times back to back when it came out. I felt like it was a perfect ending and capstone to the series, and when they announced PW I thought "Oh jeez, here comes the milking." I tried to get into it on PSP but could only stomach it for a couple of hours. Fleh. When GZ and TPP were announced, it was like my connection to MGS had been broken, I didn't give a shit at all. It wasn't until I played GZ on PS4 and was totally blown away by the game play that I started to get excited again. Then I played the HD version PW to bone up on the story, and for the last year or so I pretty much haven't been able to give much of a shit about anything as much as TPP.
 
I can't take anyone seriously when they say the ending was perfect. Utterly inane bullshit is what it was.

I played the game straight through when I got it on launch and actually ended up falling asleep during the ending just after
Big Boss
started talking. Looking back, I wish I hadn't beaten it again once I woke up to see what I'd missed.

There are some great moments and it's mostly a fun game for sure but the plot just totally falls to pieces and drags a lot of stuff from older games down with it if you think about it for more than two seconds.
I said the ending was perfect a few posts up mostly because of what happened, not the execution tho. It could've been cut down to 5 minutes. So much useless blabber (as with the whole game). Why I think its a great ending though is because it was so unexpected (for me at least) and as someone who didn't want snake to die and thinks he deserves a happy ending, Snake killing himself would've sucked. Plus the music. Plus "this is good, isn't it?"
 

TwoDurans

"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
Absolutely loved everything about this game except for the Octocamo. It made it far too easy.
 
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