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[onQ123]

Having support for it means jack shit, all AMD architecture has had support for double precision for over 15 years. Like I said it's a mainly useless feature, it can efficiently handle some background tasks but the work involved isn't worth the effort. It's never going to materialize into anything substantial, ever, it can't be implemented in a way that doesn't greatly harm render quality.

Checkerboard rendering is a fine example of a technology that has come a long in the wake of double precision and dumps all over it in terms of replication and performative gains. You don't need double precision for anything.

FP16 is perpetual motion machine levels of smoke and mirrors bullshit.

Double Precision is fp64 not fp16

fp16 is Half Precision

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Double Precision is fp64 not fp16

fp16 is Half Precision

Semantics, it's 5AM. I used the wrong word, the point stands.

 

[onQ123]

Semantics, it's 5AM. I used the wrong word, the point stands.

No it doesn't because PS4 Pro & Vegas was the 1st desktop size AMD GPUs to use double rate fp16

 

[DynamiteCop!]

No it doesn't because PS4 Pro & Vegas was the 1st desktop size AMD GPUs to use double rate fp16

Oh you mean that new buzzword they coined for it "Rapid Packed Math" lol...

Yeah, outside of Far Cry 5 and talk in 2017 from AMD try to find anyone talking about it. It's vapor.

P.S.

 

[Redneckerz]

You gotta appreciate the fact that instead of the two Xbox models the talk is once more about Sony's FP16.

I for one would love a chart detailing the specs of the various Xbox models in development. Or lets discuss about Lockhart and Anaconda.

 

[HeresJohnny]

Need to be $299 and $399 or it's a non-starter.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

You gotta appreciate the fact that instead of the two Xbox models the talk is once more about Sony's FP16.

I for one would love a chart detailing the specs of the various Xbox models in development. Or lets discuss about Lockhart and Anaconda.

Because these deluded people think it's secret sauce, it's nuanced background tech not worth the engineering in a game engine that has no tangible benefit to forward rendering.

They ate the Mark Cerny pie

Need to be $299 and $399 or it's a non-starter.

No, $299 and $499.

You people need to stop being/acting so broke and entitled. $400 inflation from 2013 for christ sakes is nearly $450 now...

 

[DanielsM]

Are you stupid?

I think any company release information on new hardware in tech 16-18 months out is stupid. Are you so stupid that you don't know that and why? Apparently yes.

(placing you on ignore for being a rude douche bag - have a nice life)

 

[onQ123]

Oh you mean that new buzzword they coined for it "Rapid Packed Math" lol...

Yeah, outside of Far Cry 5 and talk in 2017 from AMD try to find anyone talking about it. It's vapor.

P.S.

Xbox Scarlet games will be using DirectML

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Xbox Scarlet games will be using DirectML

The only way they'll be using machine learning is if it's efficient and actually produces competent rendering results. If DLSS is anything to go by that's not happening.

 

[Negotiator]

The only way they'll be using machine learning is if it's efficient and actually produces competent rendering results. If DLSS is anything to go by that's not happening.

It won't be used for rendering most likely (although maybe it could be useful for foveated rendering in VR):



All next-gen consoles will support next-gen AI in next-gen (not cross-gen) games.

Just have some patience. There's a good chance we'll see some tech demos in E3 2019.

I don't agree with OnQ's theory about FPGAs or separate processors, the GPU will do everything:

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-tesla-t4-turing-75w-gpu-announced/
https://hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/124991-nvidia-titan-rtx-130-tflops-deep-learning-performance/

And don't confuse Tflops with TOPs... although I'm almost certain we will see some BS PR jargon about PS5 having 100 "Tflops" (meaning 100 TOPs of INT4 performance).

 

[onQ123]

The only way they'll be using machine learning is if it's efficient and actually produces competent rendering results. If DLSS is anything to go by that's not happening.

https://www.highperformancegraphics.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/Hot3D/HPG2018_DirectML.pdf

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/directx/2018/03/19/gaming-with-windows-ml/

DirectML Technology Overview
We know that performance is a gamer's top priority. So, we built DirectML to provide GPU hardware acceleration for games that use Windows Machine Learning. DirectML was built with the same principles of DirectX technology: speed, standardized access to the latest in hardware features, and most importantly, hassle-free for gamers and game developers – no additional downloads, no compatibility issues - everything just works. To understand why how DirectML fits within our portfolio of graphics technology, it helps to understand what the Machine Learning stack looks like and how it overlaps with graphics.






DirectML is built on top of Direct3D because D3D (and graphics processors) are very good for matrix math, which is used as the basis of all DNN models and evaluations. In the same way that High Level Shader Language (HLSL) is used to execute graphics rendering algorithms, HLSL can also be used to describe parallel algorithms of matrix math that represent the operators used during inference on a DNN. When executed, this HLSL code receives all the benefits of running in parallel on the GPU, making inference run extremely efficiently, just like a graphics application.

In DirectX, games use graphics and compute queues to schedule each frame rendered. Because ML work is considered compute work, it is run on the compute queue alongside all the scheduled game work on the graphics queue. When a model performs inference, the work is done in D3D12 on compute queues. DirectML efficiently records command lists that can be processed asynchronously with your game. Command lists contain machine learning code with instructions to process neurons and are submitted to the GPU through the command queue. This helps to integrate in machine learning workloads with graphics work, which makes bringing ML models to games more efficient and it gives game developers more control over synchronization on the hardware.

Inspired by and Designed for Game Developers
D3D12 Metacommands
As mentioned previously, the principles of DirectX drive us to provide gamers and developers with the fastest technology possible. This means we are not stopping at our HLSL implementation of DirectML neurons – that's pretty fast but we know that gamers require the utmost in performance. That's why we've been working with graphics hardware vendors to give them the ability to implement even faster versions of those operators directly in the driver for upcoming releases of Windows. We are confident that when vendors implement the operators themselves (vs using our HLSL shaders), they will get better performance for two reasons: their direct knowledge of how their hardware works and their ability to leverage dedicated ML compute cores on their chips. Knowledge of cache sizes and SIMD lanes, plus more control over scheduling are a few examples of the types of advantages vendors have when writing metacommands. Unleashing hardware that is typically not utilized by D3D12 to benefit machine learning helps prove out incredible performance boosts.

Microsoft has partnered with NVIDIA, an industry leader in both graphics and AI in our design and implementation of metacommands. One result of this collaboration is a demo to showcase the power of metacommands. The details of the demo and how we got that performance will be revealed at our GDC talk (see below for details) but for now, here's a sneak peek of the type of power we can get with metacommands in DirectML. In the preview release of WinML, the data is formatted as floating point 32 (FP32). Some networks do not depend on the level of precision that FP32 offers, so by doing math in FP16, we can process around twice the amount of data in the same amount of time. Since models benefit from this data format, the official release of WinML will support floating point 16 (FP16), which improves performance drastically. We see an 8x speed up using FP16 metacommands in a highly demanding DNN model on the GPU. This model went from static to real-time due to our collaboration with NVIDIA and the power of D3D12 metacommands used in DirectML.

 

[HeresJohnny]

No, $299 and $499.

You people need to stop being/acting so broke and entitled. $400 inflation from 2013 for christ sakes is nearly $450 now...

I could afford four times that, that's not the issue. The issue is that not everyone else can or will, and that directly affects my investment. Launching at $500 is fucking stupid, we've seen them try it time and again and it's caused huge problems each time. Most people aren't like us; they're aren't going to spend half a grand on a goddamned toy, and especially one you need a new television to play. Trying to market a machine aimed at only the hardcore is like trying to win a general election by only pandering to the most extreme parts of your base — it's a guaranteed loser. You win by seeking the middle, the mass market.

And the inflation point is meaningless. Consoles have never been able to break through a threshold of more than about $400, inflation or no.

 

[Negotiator]

I could afford four times that, that's not the issue. The issue is that not everyone else can or will, and that directly affects my investment. Launching at $500 is fucking stupid, we've seen them try it time and again and it's caused huge problems each time. Most people aren't like us; they're aren't going to spend half a grand on a goddamned toy, and especially one you need a new television to play.

And the inflation point is meaningless. Consoles have never been able to break through a threshold of more than about $400, inflation or no.

Price-conscious consumers should buy Lockhart at $299.

This strategy affords MS to offer a premium console at $499. I don't see any problem with that.

Sony will most likely stay in the middle ($399). They won't offer 2 SKUs.

 

[HeresJohnny]

Price-conscious consumers should buy Lockhart at $299.

This strategy affords MS to offer a premium console at $499. I don't see any problem with that.

Sony will most likely stay in the middle ($399). They won't offer 2 SKUs.

They don't gain anything from it. The people who want the premium unit are hardcore and are already going to buy in anyway. The downside is that it divides the market into the us's and them's and not everyone has a uniform experience. Consoles have always been about simplicity , affordability, and consistent experiences for the end user, so while I'm not saying they won't do what you mentioned, I don't see it benefitting them. In fact, if not addressed properly, it could fall into a stereotype where most of the public feels the only system worth buying is the $500 unit and they don't jump in at all.

 

[Negotiator]

They don't gain anything from it. The people who want the premium unit are hardcore and are already going to buy in anyway. The downside is that it divides the market into the us's and them's and not everyone has a uniform experience. Consoles have always been about simplicity , affordability, and consistent experiences for the end user, so while I'm not saying they won't do what you mentioned, I don't see it benefitting them. In fact, if not addressed properly, it could fall into a stereotype where most of the public feels the only system worth buying is the $500 unit and they don't jump in at all.

The logic is pretty simple: if you still have a 1080p TV (the majority still does), then Lockhart will do the job just fine. As long as you don't care about the lack of physical media of course...

Remember XBOX 360 having 2 SKUs? Most people didn't even have HDTVs back then. Sony had HDMI, but few would use it.

 

[DanielsM]

The logic is pretty simple: if you still have a 1080p TV (the majority still does), then Lockhart will do the job just fine. As long as you don't care about the lack of physical media of course...

Remember XBOX 360 having 2 SKUs? Most people didn't even have HDTVs back then. Sony had HDMI, but few would use it.

Something to consider, isn't that kind of a tough sell -> "its fine and its basically what you have today"? That is where to me it get very hazy.

To me, if you go next gen, you need something that is somewhat future proof for at least 4-7 years. This is more of a sideways release, if true, I think Nintendo might be able to pull something off like that, not sure anyone else can pull that off.

To me if the titles are backward playable, and the initial titles will be released on last gen, than you go premium big $400-500 this go around.

 

[HeresJohnny]

The logic is pretty simple: if you still have a 1080p TV (the majority still does), then Lockhart will do the job just fine. As long as you don't care about the lack of physical media of course...

Remember XBOX 360 having 2 SKUs? Most people didn't even have HDTVs back then. Sony had HDMI, but few would use it.

The "as long as you don't care about physical media" is a big thing. It's not just the physical versus digital argument, but also that some people (many people) literally don't have connections capable of supporting a streaming machine.

I thought the idea of new consoles was to get as many people on board as fast as possible so you can make software profits off of them? These new ideas sound like ways to restrict growth.

 

[Negotiator]

The "as long as you don't care about physical media" is a big thing. It's not just the physical versus digital argument, but also that some people (many people) literally don't have connections capable of supporting a streaming machine.

Streaming != digital-only games

Lockhart will be a digital-only console.

Mind you, physical games already come with 50GB patches. Halo MCC, Gears of War 4 etc.

 

[HeresJohnny]

Streaming != digital-only games

Lockhart will be a digital-only console.

Mind you, physical games already come with 50GB patches. Halo MCC, Gears of War 4 etc.

Fair enough but the issue is the same. Bandwidth and connection quality are going to become considerations when purchasing that console and that hasn't been the case before. Adding more potential barriers to purchasers is bad business. One of the key tenets of sales in any industry is to take away the prospect's reasons to say no, not add to them.

 

[TheGreatLeon]

I seriously hope the high-end Xbox isn't any cheaper than $750. I want them to just go nuts with the price and build the last word in gaming hardware.

 

[onQ123]

I seriously hope the high-end Xbox isn't any cheaper than $750. I want them to just go nuts with the price and build the last word in gaming hardware.

If they price it that high it's not going to sale enough to have a user base worth the dev time & about 3 years later another company will be able to release a more powerful console for a cheaper price before that high price console even get off the ground .

 

[Jayjayhd34]

I seriously hope the high-end Xbox isn't any cheaper than $750. I want them to just go nuts with the price and build the last word in gaming hardware.

I want them to go nuts too, can't understand this idea that consoles need to stay at 400 dollars but people are willing to spend thousands on a phone.

 

[Shin]

They don't gain anything from it. The people who want the premium unit are hardcore and are already going to buy in anyway. The downside is that it divides the market into the us's and them's and not everyone has a uniform experience. Consoles have always been about simplicity , affordability, and consistent experiences for the end user, so while I'm not saying they won't do what you mentioned, I don't see it benefitting them. In fact, if not addressed properly, it could fall into a stereotype where most of the public feels the only system worth buying is the $500 unit and they don't jump in at all.

I wonder what a Ferrari dealer would say if you told him/her that you wanted to buy one but at the price of a Fiat Lada/VW Beetle.
You should try it and get back to us, not trying to be rude even if it comes of as such but your post is really crazy (then again it's also human nature I guess...to want).

 

[Negotiator]

Fair enough but the issue is the same. Bandwidth and connection quality are going to become considerations when purchasing that console and that hasn't been the case before. Adding more potential barriers to purchasers is bad business. One of the key tenets of sales in any industry is to take away the prospect's reasons to say no, not add to them.

Exactly!

That's why it will cost $299. History has proven more than once that 100 dollars can make a difference (XBOX 360 > PS3, PS4 > XB1).

A streaming-only console will be even cheaper ($49-99), which reduces barriers to entry even further, but it's too early for that.

I seriously hope the high-end Xbox isn't any cheaper than $750. I want them to just go nuts with the price and build the last word in gaming hardware.

Do you want a noisy, 300-watt monster that brings back RROD horrors?

$750 is not an attractive price point for a console, no matter how powerful it is. It's dangerously close to mid-range PC territory.

I want them to go nuts too, can't understand this idea that consoles need to stay at 400 dollars but people are willing to spend thousands on a phone.

Because iPhones are trendy, while consoles are not?

Because a smartphone is a swiss knife type of gadget, while consoles are not?

Just sayin'.

If you don't believe me, you should try to convince the average Instagram girl that constantly posts her buttocks/tits to buy Anaconda (wait, is that a new song from Nicki Minaj?!)

 

[Mass Nerder]

Yeah, you should try it one day!

Okay, maybe I will!

 

[HeresJohnny]

I wonder what a Ferrari dealer would say if you told him/her that you wanted to buy one but at the price of a Fiat Lada/VW Beetle.
You should try it and get back to us, not trying to be rude even if it comes of as such but your post is really crazy (then again it's also human nature I guess...to want).

Ferrari's market is not reliant on selling hundreds of thousands of cars, they're a premium brand and they actually thrive on selling fewer cars because it adds to the prestige of the brand. Then again, Ferrari sells cars for hundreds of thousands of dollars, so they only need to sell a few whereas a company like Toyota (a mass market vehicle and far more comparable to the console market) needs to sell tens or hundreds of thousands of vehicles to stay profitable. Your analogy is telling to me, because it indicates to me that you're okay with consoles becoming more luxury devices rather than the toys that they are. With all due respect to being crazy, I'm not the one trying to upend 30 years of established console sales patterns and trends... you are battling history to believe that the market will support expensive hardware.

 

[HeresJohnny]

Exactly!

That's why it will cost $299. History has proven more than once that 100 dollars can make a difference (XBOX 360 > PS3, PS4 > XB1).

A streaming-only console will be even cheaper ($49-99), which reduces barriers to entry even further, but it's too early for that.

Taking down one barrier (price) and replacing it with another (reliance on ISP, relinquishing ownership of a physical game) is going to remain an interesting sales attempt by Microsoft. We will see how it goes.

 

[Shin]

With all due respect

I have to disagree as what both companies are trying or did this generation hasn't been done before and it seems to work.
That itself is not surprising as it's seldom the case where one size fits all, different people different wishes yet still part of the same eco-system, still the same game, still the same experience, still the same level of support.
If a consumer is willing to pay for a more premium model then A company would be crazy (in a business sense) to not cater to that, the amount they sell isn't important as R*D accounts for nothing compared to what's made in return through software.

 

[HeresJohnny]

I have to disagree as what both companies are trying or did this generation hasn't been done before and it seems to work.
That itself is not surprising as it's seldom the case where one size fits all, different people different wishes yet still part of the same eco-system, still the same game, still the same experience, still the same level of support.
If a consumer is willing to pay for a more premium model then A company would be crazy (in a business sense) to not cater to that, the amount they sell isn't important as R*D accounts for nothing compared to what's made in return through software.

Mid-gen refreshes were just introduced this generation, and it sends a horrible statement to people. It actually incentivizes the buyer to wait instead of buying in, because there's the allure that you may get better hardware for either the same price or slightly more after a couple years. Following your train of thought regarding premium buyers, there are people who would buy a $2,000 Xbox, should Microsoft cater to them?

 

[michaelius]

No idea what's the point of 4 TF version when they already have X on the market - they might want to unify cpu power but it's pretty bad look when your new model is weaker than previous gen and with 1 TB SSD drive it's not going to be super cheap.

Also this would make whole ecosystem mess as you would end up with something like

One S - Jaguar + 1,3 TF gpu = sub 1080p games struggling to hit 30 fps
new cheap sku - Zen+4 TF GPU = 1080p? games but capable of reaching 60 fps
One X - Jaguar + 6TF so again targeting 4k@30 fps
Anaconda - 4K@60

Another thing if they go with new gen only games as they have history of abandoning badly selling hardware for new shiny successor then 12 TF is not enough to get native 4k on games which use full power of lower end model so they end with PS4 Pro situation.

The logic is pretty simple: if you still have a 1080p TV (the majority still does), then Lockhart will do the job just fine. As long as you don't care about the lack of physical media of course...

Remember XBOX 360 having 2 SKUs? Most people didn't even have HDTVs back then. Sony had HDMI, but few would use it.

I'm sure that people still keeping 1080p tvs are at the forefront of swapping to digital only ...

 

[Shin]

Mid-gen refreshes were just introduced this generation, and it sends a horrible statement to people. It actually incentivizes the buyer to wait instead of buying in, because there's the allure that you may get better hardware for either the same price or slightly more after a couple years. Following your train of thought regarding premium buyers, there are people who would buy a $2,000 Xbox, should Microsoft cater to them?

That's to say companies shouldn't capitalize on their consumers wishes, that's just not smart business.
As someone that's been on the store floor for most of my life I can tell you that your view is incorrect, a consumer prefers and/or is happier by having A choice rather than none.
I believe you can answer your own question with the $2000, that is not mass market at least not in the sense where it's viable where else +100 is, it's a staggering difference.
This won't go anywhere nor did I even wanted to have this discussion as someone's mind that is made up won't change no matter how much you try to open their eyes.
I'd agree with you if it was/is reality, unfortunately it isn't and that I know from experience, tons and tons of experience so perhaps it's best we leave it at agree to disagree.

 

[HeresJohnny]

That's to say companies shouldn't capitalize on their consumers wishes, that's just not smart business.
As someone that's been on the store floor for most of my life I can tell you that your view is incorrect, a consumer prefers and/or is happier by having A choice rather than none.
I believe you can answer your own question with the $2000, that is not mass market at least not in the sense where it's viable where else +100 is, it's a staggering difference.
This won't go anywhere nor did I even wanted to have this discussion as someone's mind that is made up won't change no matter how much you try to open their eyes.
I'd agree with you if it was/is reality, unfortunately it isn't and that I know from experience, tons and tons of experience so perhaps it's best we leave it at agree to disagree.

A company simply can't cater to all of the wishes of its customers. It has to make a product that meets MOST of their needs and will, most importantly -- sell units. I'm sure many people would like to have a V8 in the Toyota Highlander for example, but Toyota has instead opted to make a product that meets the needs and wants of the much larger population that is fine with a V6 in a couple configurations. You could level the "you're ignoring the customer" charge against any company that has a vision for its product that aligns with historical trends, but it's a hysterical ridiculous one. Prior to last generation (and that includes this one) consoles came in one SKU, and they sold fine, which you should know if you've been in retail for 20 years. Having my mind made up has nothing to do with it, you're not arguing with me, but history.

 

[Negotiator]

I'm sure that people still keeping 1080p tvs are at the forefront of swapping to digital only ...

Removing features from the cheaper SKU is not something unheard of.

MS wants to push their digital-only narrative as much as they can.

$299 Lockhart + $9.99 monthly Game Pass will sound very attractive to price-conscious consumers.

 

[Shin]

Having my mind made up has nothing to do with it, you're not arguing with me, but history.

You're entitled to your view and/or opinion, but this is where I get off.

 

[HeresJohnny]

Removing features from the cheaper SKU is not something unheard of.

MS wants to push their digital-only narrative as much as they can.

$299 Lockhart + $9.99 monthly Game Pass will sound very attractive to price-conscious consumers.

Why would that work when a $249 Xbone S and $9.99 Gamepass has netted poor results? Perhaps content and price are both important.

 

[Negotiator]

Why would that work when a $249 Xbone S and $9.99 Gamepass has netted poor results? Perhaps content and price are both important.

Lockhart will run next-gen games at 1080p60... neither XB1S, nor XB1X can do that. That's the difference.

MS has pledged to make more AAA exclusives, with "unlimited budget".

 

[HeresJohnny]

Lockhart will run next-gen games at 1080p60... neither XB1S, nor XB1X can do that. That's the difference.

MS has pledged to make more AAA exclusives, with "unlimited budget".

They've promised a lot of things, though. Is their word still good to you?

 

[base]

1 tb ssd seems crazy. I haven't Looked lately but aren't they still really expensive.

I can't see any prices but expect something around 499$.

 

[scalman]

good. anounce more because we need more so that other side would think how to make better product. i still want new handheld systems from both sides.

 

[Shin]

so that other side would think how to make better product.

If the 2 year lock-in is factual for console development in general then no one can change or could change anything since last year.
Meaning whatever was on the drawing board is going to be the end result at this point, no more luck with last minute GDDR5 module availability.

 

[Nikodemos]

Why would that work when a $249 Xbone S and $9.99 Gamepass has netted poor results? Perhaps content and price are both important.

Well, the Xbone S is pretty meh. A lot of games run sub-FHB, or DynRes. And it can't reach 60 fps even when running subnative.

 

[DanielsM]

They've promised a lot of things, though. Is their word still good to you?

The "unlimited budget" is funny. Kind of the new unlimited power of the cloud.

Its like people don't have a clue as to what "unlimited" means. (Rinse and repeating the same marketing)

 

[Uhtred]

After 7 pages, I'm still highly skeptical.

 

[Supmate]

Well, the Xbone S is pretty meh. A lot of games run sub-FHB, or DynRes. And it can't reach 60 fps even when running subnative.

Asked myself this exact question. Current xbox one s isn't saleable until 2020 is which is why my hunch is that Lockhart is 2019 and is a replacement for the original xbox sku at 7nm with 4+ tflops from the X gpu i. e. without expensive cooling that would not be needed and a ryzen cpu. Also forward and backward compatible.

I'll be even more convinced if we start hearing about a PS4 Pro slim for 2019 at 7nm too as the gpu's are essentially the same.

 

[Redneckerz]

Because these deluded people think it's secret sauce, it's nuanced background tech not worth the engineering in a game engine that has no tangible benefit to forward rendering.

Seeing how Metro Exodus only used it for a compute shader its so far really exaggerated what the benefits are.

Do note that i also meant you in my original comment. This thread is about Xbox not FP16 or Sony. It ain't that hard.

The "unlimited budget" is funny. Kind of the new unlimited power of the cloud.

Its like people don't have a clue as to what "unlimited" means. (Rinse and repeating the same marketing)

Lets not forget about Unlimited Detail.

I wonder how Microsoft does the budgeting for this. Working on two new devices.. re-using the APU for the high end is cost-effective, but why do that for a high end model where (mostly) anything goes?

 

[JustP_Gaming]

do not release too early microsoft or you may find yourself falling into a similar trap like sega

Or like in a winning position like the 360.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I want them to go nuts too, can't understand this idea that consoles need to stay at 400 dollars but people are willing to spend thousands on a phone.

The idea is sweet spot price for the most market penetration. Most people do not buy those phones outright, they are done via payment plans in their contract. Not to mention, Apple did see a dip when they decided to see how much further they can sucker, I mean push higher prices onto the consumer.

 

[Negotiator]

The "unlimited budget" is funny. Kind of the new unlimited power of the cloud.

Its like people don't have a clue as to what "unlimited" means. (Rinse and repeating the same marketing)

Dude, I know how fiat money works... nobody has unlimited money. Hence the quotes ("unlimited").

Why don't you wait for the next-gen reveal?

Personally, I'm not interested in weaker discless consoles, so you're asking the wrong person. It's targeted for another audience, not for me.

 

[DanielsM]

Seeing how Metro Exodus only used it for a compute shader its so far really exaggerated what the benefits are.

Do note that i also meant you in my original comment. This thread is about Xbox not FP16 or Sony. It ain't that hard.


Lets not forget about Unlimited Detail.

I wonder how Microsoft does the budgeting for this. Working on two new devices.. re-using the APU for the high end is cost-effective, but why do that for a high end model where (mostly) anything goes?

Yeah, I'm a little confused by all this, if true, but to be honest I'm having a hard time figuring a better path as well. Sony has a much easier road, imo, IF these consoles are backward compatible out of the box, and newer titles target this-gen as well.