My apologizes if that came off rude to you personally, not my intention actually.
(peace)Yeah, I think if true this is all a hard sell. (time will tell)
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RUMOR: Two next-gen Xbox models to be announced at E3 2019
- Thread starter Shin
- Start date
My apologizes if that came off rude to you personally, not my intention actually.
(peace)Yeah, I think if true this is all a hard sell. (time will tell)
12tf base model for next gen? Please don't be delusional.
ethomaz
Banned
? PS5 will be around that.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Big difference between a a system with 1tf vs 2tf.
But a system with 10tf vs 12tf, is there really going to be material difference?
But a system with 10tf vs 12tf, is there really going to be material difference?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
One is 100% more GPU grunt, the other is 20% more.
You got groups like DF predicting a jump over that even. Most of the rumors are coming with a $500 price tag as well. Don't be surprised if this next gen lasts an extremely long time. (lots of road blocks coming up, maybe a topic for a different day) Sounds like you'll find out more about Xbox in 4 months and probably PS late Summer or Fall - sounds like a Spring - Summer 2020 release to me.
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Von Hugh
Member
Not to degrade your post, but it's amazing how people in this thread are still battling and amazed by simple math.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Lemme google that equation.
I_D
Member
That would put it somewhere between the RTX 2080ti and the RTX 2080.
I would like for it to happen, but I have strong doubts.
Sony would have to take a massive loss in order to squeeze that kind of hardware into a console-priced system.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Nvidia and AMD TF are not the same.
I_D
Member
It would still mean something very similar to the Radeon VII would be in the system. I don't see it happening.
I'd love to be wrong. I want MS and Sony to come out with absolute monsters in the next consoles. I just don't see how they could possibly trim down a $600+ GPU into an affordable console, without drastically reducing performance.
EDIT: To clarify, I DO think the newest Radeon will be in the consoles. I just don't think it'll be 12tf, or really anywhere close to that.
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No way I could place a bet.
Shin
Banned
That reply tends to bring confusion in the way it's written, they are the same as it's absolute power we're talking about.
nVidia just know how to make the most of CUDA cores and are applications, games, benches are optimized for it.
An AMD card of the same power/teraflop(s) currently can't match that of an nVidia card of the same - fixed that for you
I'm sure you know what you're talking about but thread after thread discussions go wrong because the explanation is incomplete.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I think the 7nm fab is taking a lot of that into account. Efficiencies, cost reduction, and all that jazz.
Jigsaah
Gold Member
Well said and I agree 100%
TLZ
Banned
Even the broke can always get the cheaper version. That's why it's there. Imo though, they should try going even lower than $299, as low as they realistically can, to absorb as many as they can of the crowd after the cheaper console that plays the same games. And keep that $499 to show the big gap in price between the two and help push the "Premium" tag.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
ethomaz
Banned
Nope.
AMD FLOPS is different from nVidia FLOPS.
It is more like between Vega 56 and Vega 64... below 2080.
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ethomaz
Banned
Do the bet.
I_D
Member
Right, but that's still fairly unrealistic.
If you consider CPU performance as well, especially since the core-counts will likely be pretty good, I could maaaaaaybe see a 12tf system total, but that would still require a massive hit on the cost unless Sony sells the thing for eight-hundred bucks. The Vega cards, alone, still cost more than an entire PS4. I don't see how they can realistically drop the price in time for consoles next year.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Anywhere between 10 and 14TF is a safe bet IMO.
Elenchus
Banned
Not in a tough spot at all. The sales are not industry leading but that's a far cry from the desperate straits you describe. MS has the financial wherewithal to ride out a sales slump far longer than a few more years and Xbox revenue is actually increasing year over year.
All of this Sega talk is from people who don't understand the financial position Sega was in versus the position that MS is now in. You don't invest in that number of studios and multiple new consoles and services if you're desperate and looking for an exit. You do that after you have self assessed and determine that there is a business worth growing. I don't see how Sony can force MS to do anything.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
The only thing sony has forced Microsoft to do is be better.
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Why did they just dump the Windows Phone? Its a little more complicated than to say they have deep pockets. (For the record, I do not believe Microsoft will dump Xbox, on the contrary, they're in the process of moving it to the cloud, just like the vast majority of their products... obviously all their services are not completed on the Windows/Xbox front in the cloud YET... come back in about 2-3 years)
If sales don't matter, the Windows Phone would still be on the market today eventually it makes very little sense to continue a fight that is unwinnable, again, I do not believe MS will abandon Xbox, but it will and is being moved.
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CrustyBritches
Gold Member
I would be nice to AMD and give them the benefit of the doubt with Navi. I'm expecting slightly below the perf/watt compared the GTX 1660 ti at the $400 console mark, and same for the RTX 2060 at the $500 console mark. Average gaming power consumption being ~120W on the GTX 1660 ti and ~160W on the RTX 2060. AMD will probably still run a little more hungry and the cooling would be more limited at $400.
In summation, a theoretical $500 Xbox "Anaconda" would be slightly less powerful than a RTX 2060, and a $400 system would be slightly less powerful than a 1660 ti.
In summation, a theoretical $500 Xbox "Anaconda" would be slightly less powerful than a RTX 2060, and a $400 system would be slightly less powerful than a 1660 ti.
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How much you wanna bet?
ethomaz
Banned
Proposes what you want... it is a safe bet for me.
$100? its a bet not one sided !!
Norse
Member
Believe!
ethomaz
Banned
lol
Elenchus
Banned
You fundamentally misunderstand my argument. I never said sales don't matter. I said these sales are not low enough to warrant abandoning a business with so much growth potential.
You raise windows phone because well everyone making your argument does right? But that's just a sound bite. Doesn't actually prove anything. It's possible for MS to assess the growth potential of its phone business and decide to discontinue it and to have a completely separate analysis for its Xbox business.
One has nothing to do with the other. You can't cut and run every time you have a down cycle. MS didn't do that with Surface and are now reaping the rewards. Nintendo didn't do that after the Wii U (which came nowhere near 40 mil and was being pushed by a company with far less financial strength). Hell Sony didn't do this after PS3 (even after they said their PS3 losses erased their PS2 profits).
Point is not that sales don't matter but that sales are not the only thing that matters. If there is potential for growth you fix what's wrong and move forward. The basic idea on GAF that if you fail you quit is sadly some here confusing how they process failure with how a sensible business person would.
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Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Windows phone sales was one of the lowest reasons they abandoned the platform. There's a plethora of reasons why they did way before sales.
Shangounchained
Banned
It's math you can't cheat math, it's the same with ps4 and Xbox one Microsoft kept saying it'll perform the same as the ps4 despite having lower flops and it never did kept talking about super sauce n all the crap while the xbone always failed n remained sub 1080p
Shangounchained
Banned
Xbox one X is 6teraflops a next gen Xbox can't ever be 4teraflops that'd be a handheld
MilkyJoe
Member
If the 12tf console is really expensive, say 500+ and the 4tf is 349+ then someone needs their head examined. The only possible way this can be a thing is if the 12tf is the standard model and the 4tf is like a fisher price version or something.
Not even the biggest idiot at MS would consider releasing a console with a TF count at less than the pro as the standard model, for the start of next gen, 1080p locked or not.
Not even the biggest idiot at MS would consider releasing a console with a TF count at less than the pro as the standard model, for the start of next gen, 1080p locked or not.
Redneckerz
Banned
I think the whole idea of Discless should be scrapped but considering there is Xcloud coming up it definitely looks like they are looking in that direction.
Which is a shame since if i want to go physical next gen as much as possible (Not that this means much), i am essentially forced to go high end with Microsoft and either buy an X (which won't support next-gen, just cross-gen ports) or Anaconda. If Sony releases a PS5 that admittely likely wont have BC but will have a discdrive then that's an enticing option, despite being used to the Xbox controller.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
The 4tf one if it even exists will be an 'always online' streaming box. Throws out the same graphics and resolution (just about) as the 12tf console, only it requires the internet to do so. But it only costs 200 dollar or something and not 500.
MS aren't going to make a 1080p Xbox it doesn't make any sense.
MS aren't going to make a 1080p Xbox it doesn't make any sense.
REDRZA MWS
Member
Exactly. It was stated months ago that MS was developing multiple hardware, one being a cheaper "streaming box", with *some* base hardware to enhance the streaming experience. The other was a traditional next gen console.
DemonCleaner
Member
ZywyPL
Banned
You don't need Pro-1X power level to stream online content, that would have been a gigantic overkill, and gigantic price boost for no logical reason. A simple,. low-power ARM CPU will do the job just as good, paired with a decent sub-1TF GPU and 4GB of RAM, that's all you truly need for streaming 4K content, since all the processing will be done on the server side. So yeah, releasing a 1080p-targeting console makes a lot of sense, considering that in 4K era 70-80% of the consoles sold are still the base models. The larger the userbase the more the revenue, MS is fully aware of that hence, they want to expand XBL/GP on other platforms, as well as they will want to sell as many consoles as possible, and the low priced, less powerful model is what will help them to achieve that, whether anyone likes the idea or not.
Negotiator
Banned
DX12 + power of the cloud was the equivalent of FP16/RPM magic back in 2013/2014. Good times...
What the hell?!
Show me a handheld/mobile SoC that can yield 4 TF in FP32? It doesn't exist and it won't exist for a long time...
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Why doesn't it make sense? It makes more sense than it doesn't
ethomaz
Banned
You don't need 4TFs plus 12GB RAM for a "always online" streaming box lol
That is wasted hardware.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
No, they have already described the idea behind it in a video many months ago. The idea is to run the core logic of the game locally, then use servers to generate the graphics. Doing this can then remove almost all lag and make it practically indistinguishable from running the entire game locally.
The APU in this machine might be around 150mm2, compared to 350mm2+ in the full fat console. That's a big cost saving there for a start. Then there is less RAM and possibly no disc drive. So what you get is the full next gen experience more or less, just it uses streaming (plus local tech) to achieve it. And most importantly the cost of entry is much cheaper.
Microsoft aren't releasing a weak sauce next gen Xbox, especially after this gens failures. If this machine exists then there is a reason for it and the one I propose is much more likely, given there is also evidence of this technique already. A Nintendo style weak Xbox won't achieve anything for MS, people will just get the PS5 instead for an extra 100 dollars. But a cheap streaming Xbox which is more powerful than the PS5 (effectively) is a different thing altogether.
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Shin
Banned
It would make sense for these new consoles to have Zen 2 (2nd Gen, not the refresh called Zen+) as the design is complete.
Revisiting this because I'm currently re-reading a older article and people are of opinion it will be the original Zen/Zen+, given that the design is done it can be used for anything, incl. semi-custom.
We know that the custom business is a big deal to AMD and a means of survival, which is why I think Ryzen 2 Mobile will debut in consoles first before laptops because of the time frame / release window.
Revisiting this because I'm currently re-reading a older article and people are of opinion it will be the original Zen/Zen+, given that the design is done it can be used for anything, incl. semi-custom.
We know that the custom business is a big deal to AMD and a means of survival, which is why I think Ryzen 2 Mobile will debut in consoles first before laptops because of the time frame / release window.
ZywyPL
Banned
Even if, such a console would still be waaay more powerful for the task, we're talking about +-X1X performance level here for 1/4th of the resolution, such a console would be able to generate everything by it's own, It would be a massive upgrade from the base consoles, compared to the rumored premium model vs X1X, so letting the servers do the job with potential, or should I say obvious lags would be one of the stupidest decisions ever. Bare in mind many other leaks/rumors say about 3rd, sub-250$ model, that's suppose to indeed serve as a streaming-only console.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
You can use a $50 Raspberry Pi to stream, MS is not making a 4TF system for non-local games.
rivv3r
Banned
He's not exactly wrong. The Vega 56 has 40% more compute performance than the RTX 2060 (10.5 to 6.5,) but when it comes to gaming;
