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[IrishNinja]

Yes and I actually WORK for MS now. Keep up Irish

do you now
i'm so outta the loop! you're already better than balmer tho

 

[Apath]

Have you took a look at what current open world games looks like?

Yes. Watch Dogs doesn't look that much better to me.. honestly.

Maybe graphics are just doing less and less for me as I get older. Halo 4 was a horrible wake up call that pretty graphics do not make a game better.

 

[XtremeXpider]

damn...gonna be interesting seeing this try to come in sub $400, wonder how much truth there is to subscription rumors. this is literally the only system i'm looking to sleep on, gonna have to have some really interesting launch/year 1 window software to convince me otherwise now that im all on the steams



thank you for that, and well said, all around - ditto to ghst, as ever



wait, specialguy is vetted? news to me (no offense special, just first ive heard that)

I think subscription rumors will be for $99 not $399.

 

[Karak]

do you now
i'm so outta the loop! you're already better than balmer tho

I am the skinnier Balmer that ran across the stage in the other companies CES announcement. I just stand in for him when he is out eating babies and shit

I think subscription rumors will be for $99 not $399.

Either 99 or 199 and there is a ballgame!

 

[Reiko]

Yes. Watch Dogs doesn't look that much better to me.. honestly.

Maybe graphics are just doing less and less for me as I get older. Halo 4 was a horrible wake up call that pretty graphics do not make a game better.

The hook is high end, linear third person shooter graphics in a open world setting.

 

[Apath]

In what universe on consoles? Have you seen the fire effects in Uncharted 3 for comparison?

This looks like CGI to me. Is this confirmed to be an actual real-time demo?

The hook is high end, linear third person shooter graphics in a open world setting.

Really? Looks like it would be a good looking 3rd person shooter to me. *shrug*

 

[MWS Natural]

Star Wars 1313 had my jaw on the floor but Watch Dogs looks like a really polished current gen game to me. Just doesn't have the same wow effect.

 

[Karak]

Star Wars 1313 had my jaw on the floor but Watch Dogs looks like a really polished current gen game to me. Just doesn't have the same wow effect.

Each to their own of course. But I felt the opposite. Neither was current gen to me. But Watch Dogs overall use of physics and various effects...WOW. And it felt a bit more gamey. Like THIS WILL BE PLAYABLE(Cue dude destroying a car with his ankle .gif).

 

[Apath]

Watch Dogs looks like a really polished current gen game to me. Just doesn't have the same wow effect.

That's how I feel. Seeing Grand Theft Auto 4 back in early 2005 would have still looked awesome.

 

[Reiko]

This looks like CGI to me. Is this confirmed to be an actual real-time demo?

Really? Looks like it would be a good looking 3rd person shooter to me. *shrug*

They tried that with Far Cry 3 and Assassin's Creed 3 and the framerate on consoles went to the crapper.

Star Wars 1313 had my jaw on the floor but Watch Dogs looks like a really polished current gen game to me. Just doesn't have the same wow effect.

Check out the lighting effects on the reporter outside the club. It looks real.

 

[XtremeXpider]

This looks like CGI to me. Is this confirmed to be an actual real-time demo?

Really? Looks like it would be a good looking 3rd person shooter to me. *shrug*

Real time, was showed at E3.

More next gen pics:

 

[Can Crusher]

Really? Looks like it would be a good looking 3rd person shooter to me. *shrug*

It's open world and looks better than Uncharted 3. Star Wars is linear and looks like cg as you say.

See the point?

 

[OniShiro]

Real time, was showed at E3.

More next gen pics:

UE4 still has that plastic look in that pic, hope they improve their material rendering engine.

 

[Karak]

Check out the lighting effects on the reporter outside the club. It looks real.

I just had to go back to see what you were talking about.
Jezuz.

 

[Apath]

Real time, was showed at E3.

Do we know for sure? This wasn't a CGI video in the same vein as Killzone 2006?

I ask because it's the animations that look really good to me. It makes me skeptical unless it's confirmed someone was actually playing with an input device.

It's open world and looks better than Uncharted 3. Star Wars is linear and looks like cg as you say.

See the point?

Of course I see the point -- what part of my post implies that I do not see his point? I disagree that it looks better than Uncharted 3 -- I just think it looks like a good looking current-gen 3rd person shooter, and as such, despite it being open world, I do not find the visuals impressive for next generation consoles.

 

[Reiko]

UE4 still has that plastic look in that pic, hope they improve their material rendering engine.

The difference is UE4 is doing realtime lighting.

 

[Can Crusher]

Do we know for sure? This wasn't a CGI video in the same vein as Killzone 2006?

I ask because it's the animations that look really good to me. It makes me skeptical unless it's confirmed someone was actually playing with an input device.

ILM are involved in it. But it was real time.

CHECK IT

 

[Apath]

ILM are involved in it. But it was real time.

ILM? I keep hearing real time; does that mean it was played with a controller/KB&M?

EDIT: Just looks like a video they showed. Do they show more of it where someone is playing it?

 

[Horse Armour]

The difference is UE4 is doing realtime lighting.

Doesn't matter when the models they used for their demo are so poor, they barely look better than the best UE3 games. Considering the amount of effort the put into Samaritan, they comparatively poor UE4 assets were a surprise.

 

[Karak]

ILM are involved in it. But it was real time.

CHECK IT - Demo actually being played.

Starcharted

 

[Razgreez]

Riiiight

This looks like GTA IV running on a pc with everything turned down/off. If you had posted a gif of GTA IV running with something like the ICE mod and everything turned up it would give a better representation

 

[MWS Natural]

Check out the lighting effects on the reporter outside the club. It looks real.

Don't get me wrong I think it looks great. But outside of the slow motion gun firing during action scene nothing really wowed me. Someone asked me to send them vids of what to expect from next gen graphics and I choose 1313, Samaritan and the U4 tech Demo. All 3 look heads and above of current gen graphics.

I don't have a fraction of the understanding of game coding as many of you guys do so it's definitely from a layman's point of view. Perfect example, when I showed my girlfriend the 1313 trailer her first response was, "Wow! That looks amazing! When is the new Xbox coming out??" When I showed her Watch Dogs she said "Ok, that was cool." Pretty much my reaction.

 

[Reiko]

Do we know for sure? This wasn't a CGI video in the same vein as Killzone 2006?

I ask because it's the animations that look really good to me. It makes me skeptical unless it's confirmed someone was actually playing with an input device.

Of course I see the point -- what part of my post implies that I do not see his point? I disagree that it looks better than Uncharted 3 -- I just think it looks like a good looking current-gen 3rd person shooter, and as such, despite it being open world, I do not find the visuals impressive for next generation consoles.

It definitely looks better than Uncharted 3 with realtime lighting, Bokeh DOF, detailed reflections...etc

You seriously think Uncharted 3 gets this good?

http://youtu.be/xU7WGAJPRRw?t=6m4s

 

[Apath]

This looks like GTA IV running on a pc with everything turned down/off. If you had posted a gif of GTA IV running with something like the ICE mod and everything turned up it would give a better representation

Hahaha, how would modded GTA IV on the PC be an accurate depiction of a standard open world game on current generation consoles?

It definitely looks better than Uncharted 3 with realtime lighting, Bokeh DOF, detailed reflections...etc

You seriously think Uncharted 3 gets this good?

http://youtu.be/xU7WGAJPRRw?t=6m4s

Yes, though it could just be the animations from Uncharted that I think look better?

I mean, I don't know what to tell you. The graphics from Watch Dog are disappointing to me if they represent next-generation graphics. I'm not saying they're garbage or anything.

 

[Can Crusher]

ILM? I keep hearing real time; does that mean it was played with a controller/KB&M?

EDIT: Just looks like a video they showed. Do they show more of it where someone is playing it?

You are right. Nobody was holding a controller! Sorry for that.

ILM are helping with the tech apparently. Check it out:

Lucas Arts and ILM Interview

 

[Karak]

Don't get me wrong I think it looks great. But outside of the slow motion gun firing during action scene nothing really wowed me. Someone asked me to send them vids of what to expect from next gen graphics and I choose 1313, Samaritan and the U4 tech Demo.

I don't have a fraction of the understanding of game coding as many of you guys do so it's definitely from a layman's point of view. Perfect example, when I showed my girlfriend the 1313 trailer her first response was "Wow! That looks amazing! When is the new Xbox coming out?" When I showed her Watch Dogs she said "Ok, that was cool." Pretty much my reaction.

Depends on the person.
Our entire tech team at my job. Education none profit(so they are somewhat hippy nerds ) sat and watched Watch Dogs for maybe 2 hours when the youtube went up. I mean it. They would leave, then replay the video in the breakroom on the tv. Then leave then show someone else. "Oh my lord look at the COAT!" For 2 god damned hours!
No mention of 1313. It just hits with some people.

I see Star Wars with a cinematic look and a known world and a different lighting scheme. It hits different.

 

[nhlducks35]

So good

 

[Razgreez]

Hahaha, how would modded GTA IV on the PC be an accurate depiction of a standard open world game on current generation consoles?

Because it gives a better representation of what the engine is actually capable of. To my understanding the ICE mod can even be run on CFW PS3's meaning it's no more resource intensive than the standard GTA IV it just better utilizes assets and textures to create a more even presentation over-all. We're still talking about a current gen game even with the mod

Further to that it indicates how much of a difference in visual quality just a little tweaking here and there can make

I mean, I don't know what to tell you. The graphics from Watch Dog are disappointing to me if they represent next-generation graphics. I'm not saying they're garbage or anything.

Have to agree with you wholeheartedly on this point.

Graphics are still far and away from the point where i expect them to be eventually. We should literally get to the a sort of naked eye pixel density wall scenario where we just can't discern between real and computer generated because of our own physical limitations

But it's a mod. The game was made a certain way for a reason.

I'm sure if Rockstar wanted New York City to look like Project Gotham Racing 4 New York City they could have, but that was not the goal of the art direction.

I understand that entirely. My thinking is more along the lines of; i judge new games (technology) based on old games (technology) i.e. a new game is not necessarily impressive if it looks better than an old one only because certain techniques that could have "easilly" been used in the old one, weren't. What impresses are the capabilities of the new games that could never have been achieved in old ones. These show the real progress being made

 

[Reiko]

Because it gives a better representation of what the engine is actually capable of. To my understanding the ICE mod can even be run on CFW PS3's meaning it's no more resource intensive than the standard GTA IV it just better utilizes assets and textures to create a more even presentation over-all. We're still talking about a current gen game even with the mod

Further to that it indicates how much of a difference in visual quality just a little tweaking here and there can make

But it's a mod. The game was made a certain way for a reason.

I'm sure if Rockstar wanted New York City to look like Project Gotham Racing 4 New York City they could have, but that was not the goal of the art direction.

 

[Apath]

You are right. Nobody was holding a controller! Sorry for that.

ILM are helping with the tech apparently. Check it out:

Lucas Arts and ILM Interview

That video shows a much more believable demonstration to me. The animations look great, but the animations from the GIF posted above just look perfect. That's why I question the authenticity of it.

Game looks great though.

 

[StevieP]

It would 5X Xenos in raw terms, PLUS likely fantastically more efficient by being so much more modern. So I think 8X in real terms at minimum.

Here is another great recent post on B3D about Jaguar vs Xcpu:



bobcat=Jaguar predecessor for you noobs. Jag will be better.

Except when it comes to floating point code, Jaguar will fare far worse than the PPE (and believe me, I am no fan of PPE). It's IPC is much better than the PPE, though, because the PPE is shit at most general purpose computing. On the bright side, the GPUs will be put to use for that. But there is only so much silicon available to you in that TDP range, right?

So basically imo it means theoretically you could take a 3 teraflop PC GPU, and it might be equivalent to a 1.5 TF console GPU fully utilized.

Here's where your post otherwise falls apart. There is no "magical console optimizations" that will double your performance... You know what console optimization is? Locking down your game to a fixed spec by dropping resolution, framerate, IQ, AA, AF, texture quality, texture resolution and many other smoke-and-mirrors tactics that will continue to be employed. They will still net you good results, but there is no computing power that is created by simple virtue of a differently shaped box.

There is no magic bullet that makes a 7770-equivalent into a 7970-equivalent (as an example of your numbers) in other words.

 

[Can Crusher]

Anybody think Ground Zeroes is next gen?

I do. Those visuals aren't possible on PS3/360, I refuse to believe.

 

[GrizzNKev]

This thread's title is messing up my scrolling on GAF mobile (windows phone).
The specs list has no spaces so it's extending over the edge of the page graphics and causing a horizontal scroll to be possible. Is it too much to ask for mod action? Or should I PM one? I've never done that before

 

[Reiko]

Anybody think Ground Zeroes is next gen?

I do. Those visuals aren't possible on PS3/360, I refuse to believe.

Could be. Maybe Kojima will come clean and announce that footage as being Durango/Orbis at E3.

 

[specialguy]

Except when it comes to floating point code, Jaguar will fare far worse than the PPE (and believe me, I am no fan of PPE). It's IPC is much better than the PPE, though, because the PPE is shit at most general purpose computing. On the bright side, the GPUs will be put to use for that. But there is only so much silicon available to you in that TDP range, right?




Here's where your post otherwise falls apart. There is no "magical console optimizations" that will double your performance... You know what console optimization is? Locking down your game to a fixed spec by dropping resolution, framerate, IQ, AA, AF, texture quality, texture resolution and many other smoke-and-mirrors tactics that will continue to be employed. They will still net you good results, but there is no computing power that is created by simple virtue of a differently shaped box.

There is no magic bullet that makes a 7770-equivalent into a 7970-equivalent (as an example of your numbers) in other words.

Err, I'd disagree. Just look at Uncharted, Killzone 3, and Halo 4 which are made on 2005 GPU's. And yet dont look bad compared to Crysis 3 in 2013 on 20X the PC hardware. Lowly 720P or no.

A 2005 GPU isn't even a joke in the PC world. A 7770 is the low end in the PC world, and it destroys 2005 GPU's.

Even Carmack said that console optimization amounts to about 2X performance, and I personally think he shot way low. Guesstimating, my feeling is it's more like 4X easy.

You will see things on 1.5 TF Durango that will probably be pretty mind melting in years 4 and 5. Like stated in this thread, I believe Watch Dogs and Star Wars 1313 will be entry level next gen games.

It's simple, when you are programming for one (or maybe 2 in multiplats case) hardware spec vs 40,000 possible PC configurations plus an API wrapper, you can do a lot more.

That's not even getting into the fact precious little sets out to test high end PC's at all anyway, due to various economic factors. We haven't even seen next gen yet.

 

[Reiko]

Err, I'd disagree. Just look at Uncharted, Killzone 3, and Halo 4 which are made on 2005 GPU's. And yet dont look bad compared to Crysis 3 in 2013 on 20X the hardware. 720P or no.

A 2005 GPU isn't even a joke in the PC world. A 7770 is the low end in the PC world, and it destroys 2005 GPU's.

Even Carmack said that console optimization amounts to about 2X performance, and I personally think he shot way low. Eyeballing my feeling is it's more like 4X easy.

Those games don't look bad. But Crysis 3 DX11 smokes all three titles graphically.

 

[Karak]

Anybody think Ground Zeroes is next gen?

I do. Those visuals aren't possible on PS3/360, I refuse to believe.

It actually COULD be very polished and have a ton of dev time. That one is a cusp game. Really hard to tell.

 

[KillerTravis]

I'm way, waaay more excited for Watch Dogs than yet another 3rd person shooter with nice graphics. The amazing graphics are just a plus.

 

[danwarb]

Here's where your post otherwise falls apart. There is no "magical console optimizations" that will double your performance... You know what console optimization is? Locking down your game to a fixed spec by dropping resolution, framerate, IQ, AA, AF, texture quality, texture resolution and many other smoke-and-mirrors tactics that will continue to be employed. They will still net you good results, but there is no computing power that is created by simple virtue of a differently shaped box.

There is no magic bullet that makes a 7770-equivalent into a 7970-equivalent (as an example of your numbers) in other words.

It's not just about turning things off until a game runs well enough. The efficiency of those processes can be improved more easily through optimization for fixed consoles spec. You won't see nearly the same efficiency in PC ports.

 

[StevieP]

Err, I'd disagree. Just look at Uncharted, Killzone 3, and Halo 4 which are made on 2005 GPU's. And yet dont look bad compared to Crysis 3 in 2013 on 20X the PC hardware. Lowly 720P or no.

A 2005 GPU isn't even a joke in the PC world. A 7770 is the low end in the PC world, and it destroys 2005 GPU's.

Even Carmack said that console optimization amounts to about 2X performance, and I personally think he shot way low. Guesstimating, my feeling is it's more like 4X easy.

You will see things on 1.5 TF Durango that will probably be pretty mind melting in years 4 and 5. Like stated in this thread, I believe Watch Dogs and Star Wars 1313 will be entry level next gen games.

It's simple, when you are programming for one (or maybe 2 in multiplats case) hardware spec vs 40,000 possible PC configurations plus an API wrapper, you can do a lot more.

That's not even getting into the fact precious little sets out to test high end PC's at all anyway, due to various economic factors. We haven't even seen next gen yet.

4x? C'mon dude, what are you smoking lol. Carmack later clarified that statement, btw (and it wasn't what you think), but I am not in a place where I can sit around and google that.

BTW - Xbox 3 also has an API

It's not just about turning things off until a game runs well enough. The efficiency of those processes can be improved more easily through optimization for fixed consoles spec. You won't see nearly the same efficiency in PC ports.

Effeciency of those processes? Those same efficiencies can be applied anywhere, not just on consoles or fixed spec hardware. Although there is *some* truth to making your game as best as it can be on fixed hardware (as per specialguy's examples) because you are literally toning things up and down (as per my examples) until the game goes gold, there is no truth to the matter of running into any kind of magic that will make that processor run 2x or 4x better than any equivalent piece of technology.

Tag is making your life tough StevieP.

Nah, I enjoy it

 

[Can Crusher]

Tag is making your life tough StevieP.

 

[specialguy]

4x? C'mon dude, what are you smoking lol. Carmack later clarified that statement, btw (and it wasn't what you think), but I am not in a place where I can google that.

BTW - Xbox 3 also has an API

Do you look at Halo 4 and Killzone 3 on 2005 (!) hardware and go man, those look like shit?

Didn't think so. There you go.

I dont. I look at them and go besides maybe 720P lacking, those look great in the greater pantheon of graphics (meaning PC, iOS, whatever).

 

[G_Berry]

Yes. Watch Dogs doesn't look that much better to me.. honestly.

Maybe graphics are just doing less and less for me as I get older. Halo 4 was a horrible wake up call that pretty graphics do not make a game better.

I didn't think Halo looked that great at all to be honest. Dat FOV, Dat Jank.

Watch Dogs however looks insane!

 

[XtremeXpider]

BTW - Xbox 3 also has an API

But it don't have all the software layers as in PC APIs.

 

[StevieP]

Do you look at Halo 4 and Killzone 3 on 2005 (!) hardware and go man, those look like shit?

Didn't think so. There you go.

I dont. I look at them and go besides maybe 720P lacking, those look great in the greater pantheon of graphics (meaning PC, iOS, whatever exists).

C'mon man. Halo 4 looks great because of art direction, not hardware. The team put a lot of love into the game, and it shows. But...There are a LOT of my aforementioned "smoke and mirrors" in play when you're not looking at press photos and are looking at framebuffer grabs, and it doesn't take a long time to find where the smoke and mirrors are located:

My point is that there is no magic bullet that allows a console to perform 2 or even 4 times better than its set hardware. It is what it is, and it's the job of the developers to put that hardware to its best use and not simply attempt to brute force something. You know what makes fixed-spec consoles shine? Love being put into it - polish in other words. Not magic.

 

[XtremeXpider]

Not a "looks the horrible Halo 4 graphics" again... Halo 4 has some levels with some lows, but some levels are really amazing.

I can take bad screenshots from all games.

 

[Clay Davis]

xD

the look of a man who is slowly coming to the realisation that his console simply isn't capable of outputting those visuals and is positively last gen in comparison.

watch dogs on the u could be all kinds of amazing. using the gamepad as the map and menu screen as well as other features would have been incredible.

 

[Bgamer90]

His foot smashed up that taxi like it was nothing.

Man, I never noticed that before.

 

[derFeef]

Oh hey cherry-picking screenshots, so much fun.
E3 will be bonkers.

 

[LightOfTruth]

Yeah I personally dont agree with Halo 4 being the best example of technical achievement.....I mean the tech is good, but I think it looks so nice to many people because of the art.