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Russia begins Invasion of Ukraine

FunkMiller

Member
Just ignore this guy. He is obsessed with the idea that Germany is the reason for the war and now should cripple their economy because this would somehow help Ukraine.

Don’t be a dummy. Of course they’re not the reason for the war. But Germany have made colossal mistakes in the last few years regarding their relationship with Putin, and a little more sacrifice on their part now would help the Ukrainian cause.

You may not like that because it might make your bills go up, and means you can’t spend so much on video games, but it’s still true.
 
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Dr.D00p

Member
Don’t be a dummy. Of course they’re not the reason for the war. But Germany have made colossal mistakes in the last few years regarding their relationship with Putin, and a little more sacrifice on their part now would help the Ukrainian cause.

You may not like that because it might make your bills go up, and mean you can’t spend so much on video games, but it’s still true.

Wasting your breath. The 2 or 3 big Continental European powers only really care about whats in front of them. Ultimately, this war is still too far away from them, for them to really give two flying fucks about it...Everything so far has been superficial support, doing the absolute minimum to maintain the facade of caring.

Now that they think Ukraine is in no imminent danger of being completely conquered by Russia, they really don't like what lies ahead, a long, grinding war of attrition lasting (probably) years, for which the economic cost is too high for them to contemplate.

..If only those pesky, annoying Ukrainians had stuck to the script and capitulated, things would have been so much simpler for everyone :messenger_smirking:
 

Tams

Member
The problem is that Western countries (especially the US) are not really providing enough heavy weaponry. US sent a couple of HIMARS... a couple! Big whoop! I think Russia/Putin have shown that they are not really going to start a military confrontation with the West over their supply of weapons to Ukraine, so I'm a bit confused as to why they are still being slow.

I'm guessing their fear/calculation is that Russia being defeated is what might start a confrontation with the West as opposed to the act itself of providing Ukraine with weapons. As such, it looks as though the West is supplying Ukraine with enough to keep fighting and force something close to a stalemate but not enough to genuinely push back Russian forces.
Honestly, most of it has been about trust. Ukraine up until very recently had been hard to trust, and to some degree are a bit. But the invasion has made it very clear that Russia winning is in no way in the 'West's' interests, so more is being done.

There's also the issue that using such weapons without risking mass loss of them takes training. The Ukrainians have shown themselves to be very quick and willing learners, but they can't afford to have too many of their soldiers away training. Even if it means losing some of those soldiers while they use Soviet era weapons.

As to why Russia hasn't advanced further/as far as expected? On paper, they should even with the hardest Ukrainian resistance be making much bigger gains. Corruption. Plain and simple. Decades of it.
 
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Tams

Member
In Europe, the more things change, the more they stay the same, The sad reality of this war, dying with your buddy in a muddy field.

Supposedly showing Ukrainian soldiers, but who knows, could be from either side, given all the disinformation going about...


That video well may be showing a war crime.
 

Tams

Member


Correct me if I'm wrong, but this was mere hours after the grain export deal was announced. Russia are such an absolute joke.

It's clear this is them going, 'Yeah, there's a deal. But it might as well not apply to you, as we'll make it so no one will risk trading with you.'
 
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Wade Wilson Marvel GIF


Fuck Putler and his army!!!
 

TwinB242

Member


+ sanctions on their aviation industry were loosened to allow the continued sale of spare parts and other components for their commercial aircraft.

So much for making Russia a pariah state. The west talks big but then makes decisions like these which do nothing but empower Putin and give him more leverage.
 
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IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins


+ sanctions on their aviation industry were loosened to allow the continued sale of spare parts and other components for their commercial aircraft.

So much for making Russia a pariah state. The west talks big but then makes decisions like these which do nothing but empower Putin and give him more leverage.


What's the reasoning for this? They worried Russia are going to turn off the gas in the winter?
 

Relique

Member
What's the reasoning for this? They worried Russia are going to turn off the gas in the winter?
I don't know about the other shit but I think the Lithuania part is that what they did does not fall under sanctions. Sanctions are a trade ban between nations. Every country is free to choose who they buy/sell to. What Lithuania did was technically a blockade because they stopped transfer of things from Russia to Russia. I think blockades are considered an act of war under international law. Being a member of EU and NATO I am sure those weren't happy with Lithuania making a decision like that on their own.
 

Facism

Member


Correct me if I'm wrong, but this was mere hours after the grain export deal was announced. Russia are such an absolute joke.

It's clear this is them going, 'Yeah, there's a deal. But it might as well not apply to you, as we'll make it so no one will risk trading with you.'


I rolled my eyes hard when it came out that they signed an agreement. I'm looking at Turkiye, who have made a bunch of agreements with Russia in Syria and Libya, then Azerbaijan/Armenia agreements with Russia regarding Karabagh, and seeing Russia break every single one. Like how many times are you going to broker agreements that this shithouse state routinely breaks?

Georgebushfoolmeonce.gif
 

akimbo009

Gold Member
Watch russia cut the gas anyway. Germans think they can trust Russia? 😂

They may be that naive.. yes. But I think Russia is pretty desperate for economic inflows that they wouldn't do that. Gotta pay the rent in their mansions and yachts somehow.
 

Forsete

Member
They may be that naive.. yes. But I think Russia is pretty desperate for economic inflows that they wouldn't do that. Gotta pay the rent in their mansions and yachts somehow.
True, but I wonder if they would pass up the biggest chance yet to fuck up the thing they hate the most, the west. We will see.
 

akimbo009

Gold Member
True, but I wonder if they would pass up the biggest chance yet to fuck up the thing they hate the most, the west. We will see.
The west you meqn as defined by Germany? West is a concept, not a nation or people. I think that's what the EU constantly fails at. The west will exist without France and Germany - a loss, but it would move on - cause there's a other 40 or so "western" nations as unique and interesting - and countries like Mexico, Canada, Brazil, US would just take on the economic drop off. Time is a long thing, and while decades may suck, their loss wouldn't subsume an idea or concept of freedom.

So yeah, I'm ok with Germany getting uncomfortable cause they fucked this world up after 2 world wars and millions upon millions dead. So they get a little cold or warm or are 10th in the economy list versus 4 or whatever. Boo hoo. Maybe America will get all away from them and they'll truly be a Russian or China vassal - all their choices have been to spite the US - so dunno, maybe they learn what the lack of patience feels like.
 

winjer

Gold Member
The west you meqn as defined by Germany? West is a concept, not a nation or people. I think that's what the EU constantly fails at. The west will exist without France and Germany - a loss, but it would move on - cause there's a other 40 or so "western" nations as unique and interesting - and countries like Mexico, Canada, Brazil, US would just take on the economic drop off. Time is a long thing, and while decades may suck, their loss wouldn't subsume an idea or concept of freedom.

Exactly. Not only "the west" is a concept. But for a long time, Russia was considered a western country. A Europeans country.
Despite it having land that goes well into Asia, most of the Russian people, especially Russian ethnicity is in Europe.
Not only that, but it has a long history of being focused on European history. Just in the last few centuries, it was always involved in the biggest events.
Fighting Napoleon along side Prussia, Great Britain, Portugal, Spain and Austria. Creating the alliance of the 3 Emperors between Germany, Russia and Austria.
Being a part of the Triple Entente during WW1. Being a part of the axis powers, invading Poland in 1939. Then switching to the Allies when Hitler invaded.
Russian royalty and nobility were marrying into other European houses. Until WW1, the monarchs of Russia, Germany and the United Kingdom were cousins.
These are just some examples. And not to say that Russia doesn't have politics and war in the east. But it's focus was in Europe.

Only during the Cold war did they get this mentality that there was a huge divide. The capitalistic west VS the communist east.
But with the fall of communism, Russia had an opportunity to normalize relations with Europe and become an contributing member, as it was before.
Too bad they got a dictator that still thinks in with the Cold era mentality.

So yeah, I'm ok with Germany getting uncomfortable cause they fucked this world up after 2 world wars and millions upon millions dead. So they get a little cold or warm or are 10th in the economy list versus 4 or whatever. Boo hoo. Maybe America will get all away from them and they'll truly be a Russian or China vassal - all their choices have been to spite the US - so dunno, maybe they learn what the lack of patience feels like.

Germany didn't cause WW1. They did contribute for it in some measure with the blank check. But other countries had bigger influence in this, such Austria-Hungary, Serbia and Russia.
France also had a decent contribution.

The truth of the matter is that it wasn't so much a country that started the war. It was the party that wanted war, in all these countries, that eventually won out the political maneuvering.
 

Ionian

Member
Exactly. Not only "the west" is a concept. But for a long time, Russia was considered a western country. A Europeans country.
Despite it having land that goes well into Asia, most of the Russian people, especially Russian ethnicity is in Europe.
Not only that, but it has a long history of being focused on European history. Just in the last few centuries, it was always involved in the biggest events.
Fighting Napoleon along side Prussia, Great Britain, Portugal, Spain and Austria. Creating the alliance of the 3 Emperors between Germany, Russia and Austria.
Being a part of the Triple Entente during WW1. Being a part of the axis powers, invading Poland in 1939. Then switching to the Allies when Hitler invaded.
Russian royalty and nobility were marrying into other European houses. Until WW1, the monarchs of Russia, Germany and the United Kingdom were cousins.
These are just some examples. And not to say that Russia doesn't have politics and war in the east. But it's focus was in Europe.

Only during the Cold war did they get this mentality that there was a huge divide. The capitalistic west VS the communist east.
But with the fall of communism, Russia had an opportunity to normalize relations with Europe and become an contributing member, as it was before.
Too bad they got a dictator that still thinks in with the Cold era mentality.



Germany didn't cause WW1. They did contribute for it in some measure with the blank check. But other countries had bigger influence in this, such Austria-Hungary, Serbia and Russia.
France also had a decent contribution.

The truth of the matter is that it wasn't so much a country that started the war. It was the party that wanted war, in all these countries, that eventually won out the political maneuvering.

The assignation of the Kaiser sure did start WW1.

WW2 was the rise of the Nazi party.

Wow facts. Read a book.
 

Alx

Member
Yeah there wasn't a single country to blame for WWI. If anything, all (European) countries were to blame, because they were all intertwined with feuds and alliances, multiple claims of territories, and still a natural propension to go to war against each other.
 

winjer

Gold Member
learned this as a teen.

Yes, you are wrong. So very wrong.
The Kaiser was never killed. He died of old age, in 1941, in the Netherlands. He abdicated soon after the end of WW1, becoming the last Kaiser.

If you want to learn about WW1, might I recommend your read books by reputable historians like Margaret MacMillan, Michael Neiberg, Sean McMeekin, David Stone, among others.
 
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Tams

Member
Good for them, the only thing I see a bit dangerous is that Winnie The Poo Party is helping.


Yeah, and NATO aren't going to be too thrilled by that. For now though, anything that helps isolate Russia more is worth it. And just leaving Kazakhstan to China is not appealing in the long term either.
 

Tams

Member
Then it went mental.

Sorry you don't know this.

Had a Polish GF.
Oh come on, admit that you were wrong.

WWII was largely due to the Nazi Party becoming so strong, not their rise; they'd already risen.

Your Polish ex has nothing to do with this. And I could bring my own family ties into this, but that would disrespectful and all for no reason. You can just read a history book.
 
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FunkMiller

Member
Then it went mental.

Sorry you don't know this.

Had a Polish GF.

I used to fuck a half Chinese chick, dude. Doesn't mean I know shit about the Ming Dynasty.

The Nazi party began in 1920... which is just a little bit before the start of the second world war. Hitler became the democratically elected chancellor of Germany in 1933.

WW2 wasn't the rise of the Nazis. It was their fall.

In more troubling and relevant news, the EU starting to really tie itself in knots over this gas shortage:

 
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Ionian

Member
As I said we learned the history in school.

Then my ex told me stories from her mother. Polish one.

Also was a Sicilian whose grandfather fought in WW1, he apparently refused to speak about it.

If i'm wrong so be it. I meant the rise as in attacking the world. They even had plans for Ireland, called operation green to cut off American flights as they refueled here.

I'm not attacking any poster by any means.

So lets stay neutral, ok?
 

TwinB242

Member

The next few weeks will be crucial and might very well decide the outcome of this phase of the war. Once the weather becomes worse offensive operations will slow to a crawl for both sides, and that'll benefit Russia far more as Ukraine won't be able to efficiently counterattack and reclaim their lost lands. All the while Russia will be finalizing its plans to annex territory and then be in a good enough position to call for a (bullshit) ceasefire. They likely won't meet their goal of taking over all of the donbas, but they will have taken over most of Ukraine's coast which is more vital to Ukraine's economy. And Russia obviously won't stop there, they'll use the downtime as an opportunity to re-build their forces and attack again to continue chipping away at Ukraine.

Time to stop with the half measures and get them everything they need, including the 300km ATACMS missiles.
 
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