What constitutes as a compromise? Is a 1080p game that has worse textures, physics, lighting, etc not equally a compromise?
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Ryse Confirmed 900p, was always 900p...
- Thread starter Miles Quaritch
- Start date
What constitutes as a compromise? Is a 1080p game that has worse textures, physics, lighting, etc not equally a compromise?
Scaling an image to match the native resolution of a display is a horrible compromise.
My image is not anti-aliased. This was a bilinear upscale, no post-processing at all. The whole point of my post was to explain why that style of pixel counting doesn't provide confirmation one way or the other.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
The methodology in the post which claimed to confirm 1080p native in earlier materials is flawed.
This is a 1080p B/W divide.
This is a 900p B/W divide.
This is a 900p B/W divide upscaled to 1080p. This is a zoom-in on a 50 pixel wide section of that upscaled image.
With one corresponding step per line. Unless I misunderstood something about his process, the methodology from the post being discussed doesn't prove or disprove anything.
So it's come to this.
When I'm sitting 8 feet away from my TV with a game in motion I'm sure 900p vs 1080p is going to matter.
Console wars in full effect, y'all.
I guess you don't know that Full HD does actually mean 1080p. Very misleading if they said that.
Not a compromise more than a tradeoff, but the 150k -> 85k polygons in order to up the shaders.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Well, it's just that people are using that pixel count as proof that the original videos were running on PC and not the Xbox One when really it doesn't seem to prove anything.
shinobi602
Member
Laughing_Man__
Neo Member
So who is gonna sit and count pixels when they pick up this game?
Sorry, my english sucks.
I mean your original image is a perfectly antialiased line, try to draw a non antialiased one and you will notice the difference. If you take a native line rendered at 900p without AA and upscale at 1080p you can easily see the the scaling and you can count the pixel, you can do it even if has some little AA on it (i mean in the original 900p image).
Cameron122
Member
I...I don't get it ;~;
Both things are both tradeoffs and compromises.
Do the math.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
That's fine.
I just think these comparison screenshots are hilarious. Hell, for most console gaming situations 720p is fine. Personally, I think resolution is one of the smarter downgrades developers can make for console games. 1080p vs 900p is laughable.
I'm fully expecting to get flamed here.
Why would you play at those setting? *pukes*
900p with no AA has that "blob-like" look to it. I am way to used to it from Vita games
Here's Skyrim in 1080p and 900p with identical settings otherwise (2X AA) so you can upscale them yourself. Textures don't suffer nearly as much here, but it is still noticeable sharper in 1080p.
Tiny comparison of the carpets. Much more noticable in the full picture.
bigboss370
Member
very unfortunate indeed. Game still looks good though!
I think we're already seeing the power difference now between PS4 and X1. KZ: SF looks half a generation ahead and is holding that at 1080p. Knack, DC, and Resogun are all 1080p as well.
This isn't a bad thing at all though for Ryse, especially IF they can really use the compromise in resolution to optimize effects.
I think we're already seeing the power difference now between PS4 and X1. KZ: SF looks half a generation ahead and is holding that at 1080p. Knack, DC, and Resogun are all 1080p as well.
This isn't a bad thing at all though for Ryse, especially IF they can really use the compromise in resolution to optimize effects.
LukasTaves
Member
The visual quality is increased, though. Also, from the comparison all the geometric detail that was present before is still there... I wouldn't call that exacly a compromise.
Claude Kenni
Member
The way some people are interpreting "no compromise" does not make any sense. That Ryse is 900p has widely been referred to as a downgrade, saying no compromise means that they did not have to compromise the resolution to maintain the visual quality as the game was never going to be 1080p. The phrasing "no change, no compromise" makes this being the meaning very obvious.
When so many Xbox One games are 720p and Ryse has some pretty good graphics I don't understand how some are acting like not having a game be 1080p is some huge sin.
The wording "full HD experience" is mealy-mouthed sure but I'm seeing people in this thread that do not believe that the game was 900p the whole time and I see no reason to think that. I don't see a single thing said that was a lie but people are acting like there was.
When so many Xbox One games are 720p and Ryse has some pretty good graphics I don't understand how some are acting like not having a game be 1080p is some huge sin.
The wording "full HD experience" is mealy-mouthed sure but I'm seeing people in this thread that do not believe that the game was 900p the whole time and I see no reason to think that. I don't see a single thing said that was a lie but people are acting like there was.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
nm
EatinOlives
Member
You don't need to "count pixels" to immediately notice when a game is upscaled.
Chobel
Member
Let's try this... he said "Use near-horizontal lines"
So create some image with line with an angle that's less than 20°. If we can't deduce anything, well we can ignore step/pixel counting as a method to get the resolution.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
I agree with you, go back in post history, I said months before either system was revealed that I'd be fine with 720p and better image quality. I expect resolutions to drop for certain games on both consoles as developers try to push better graphics.
shinobi602
Member
I guess if you have to put your full attention to looking a damn carpet on the ground you might see something. Who does that though? Christ, I barely see a lick of difference between the two images. And staring at a static image on a PC monitor from 2 feet away is not even in the same ballpark as playing a game in motion on a big HDTV probably 6+ feet away. Come on.Why would you play at those setting? *pukes*
900p with no AA has that "blob-like" look to it. I am way to used to it from Vita games
Here's Skyrim in 1080p and 900p with identical settings otherwise (2X AA) so you can upscale them yourself. Textures don't suffer nearly as much here, but it is still noticeable sharper in 1080p.
Tiny comparison of the carpets. Much more noticable in the full picture.
Laughing_Man__
Neo Member
No one else noticed it untill someone said something.
IAmRandom31
Banned
Most people are looking at these images on a 20 inch monitor from 2 feet. Not a 40+ inch television from 8 feet.
Heck I put my PC games up on my 1080p TV when I had been playing on a 1600x900 PC monitor. The difference was astounding with just a subtle resolution change on the game settings.
Game went from nice and clear and no aliasing to MASSIVE aliasing and all sorts of issues.
Heck I put my PC games up on my 1080p TV when I had been playing on a 1600x900 PC monitor. The difference was astounding with just a subtle resolution change on the game settings.
Game went from nice and clear and no aliasing to MASSIVE aliasing and all sorts of issues.
metareferential
Member
That's the point.
Greenberg should have just kept his mouth closed. No one was able to tell.
No one is now, either.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
I guess you don't know that Full HD is a vague basis for assuming native 1080p. I said this as soon as that interpretation popped up. Yea it's HD... upscaled. They have no requirement to specify otherwise. If people let it go earlier, we wouldn't have hurt feelings in this thread right now.
In motion it can look worse with shimmering. The real world condition is that on a 1080p screen 1080p content looks sharper than upscaled 900p and the difference is much more noticeable when you blow it up to full screen. For a game that is supposed to be a graphical showcase which seems to suffer in terms of framerate and layout because of it 900p is dissapointing.
EatinOlives
Member
No one else can notice before it releases. We don't have uncompressed direct-feed videos at this resolution, and "journalists" playing this at the expos aren't going to care. "Official word" from the developers used intentionally misleading buzzwords like "Full HD" to make people think it was 1080p.
Laughing_Man__
Neo Member
DF never noticed.
EatinOlives
Member
How does that invalidate anything I said?
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
Strange... I seem to remember that the earlier video was 1080p confirmed? Why not just admit that resolution was lowered to fill the game with awesome-looking effects?
I, for one, care less about native resolution than I do about packing a game with great lighting, textures, and particles. And that's coming from someone who sits seven feet from a 65" tv!
1600x900 is noticeably better resolution than the majority of games this gen, so as long as there's no case where the IQ gets as bad as GTAV (for me, I get headaches from how it looks on my massive TV) I'll be good. I dealt with the jaggies on TLoU and Halo 4 just fine.
In the end, "Full HD" implies 1080p native. His use of the term was wholly inappropriate at best, outright lying at worst.
I, for one, care less about native resolution than I do about packing a game with great lighting, textures, and particles. And that's coming from someone who sits seven feet from a 65" tv!
1600x900 is noticeably better resolution than the majority of games this gen, so as long as there's no case where the IQ gets as bad as GTAV (for me, I get headaches from how it looks on my massive TV) I'll be good. I dealt with the jaggies on TLoU and Halo 4 just fine.
In the end, "Full HD" implies 1080p native. His use of the term was wholly inappropriate at best, outright lying at worst.
Laughing_Man__
Neo Member
The point is no one would have noticed it was up scaled.
Unless I missed something we do have HD direct feed of the game. Both single and multiplayer.
No one realized it's an upscaled 900p.
Game looks incredible.
It will be 1080p on your TV too. The game is upscaled to 1080p.
Oh you got that ISO standard for Full HD? Is it alongside the Retina standard? S'all marketing nonsense. Not misleading to use a term that doesn't mean anything, though a little vacuous I suppose.
Can't wait for the stuff to come out so we can discuss how they actually are instead of all this uninformed speculation pieced together from a bunch of different sources about a moving target product in development.
Opus Angelorum
Member
There are plenty of current generation games that just about hit 720p and look great, this idea that anything below 1080p isn't good enough is nonsense.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
I would love for you to take a double blind test using 900 vs 1080 while playing a game you've never played before in full motion on a 47 inch TV sitting 8 feet away. Just normal game playplay conditions. You know, not staring at a wall or carpets. I'd be willing to lay major odds you wouldn't do so well.
EatinOlives
Member
They didn't have direct-feed videos at the game's native resolution. You bet your ass they would've noticed at that point.
If you honestly think the entire gaming community will not notice a game is upscaled at 900p instead of 1080p after the game is released and the only reason why people know it is because they said it themselves then you really don't know what you're talking about.
Not at the game's native resolution.
Sword Of Doom
Member
It's not about Ryse looking good or bad. Or about people being able to notice 900p vs 1080p. The reason people are paying close attention to every little detail is simply because it confirms the rumors about the power gap between the consoles. The fact that only Forza is running at 1080p says a lot.
It's all relative. When PCs have already conquered running games at 1080p, asking a new generation of consoles to do that bare minimum isn't too much.
I'm on the "wait and see" camp though. I'm sure the second round next gen games will easily hit 1080p, with a few outliers that will run at 720-900p.
I actually agree with you, console standard should be 720p/60fps with all the effects high as possible, a lot of the resolution is lost to viewing distance..we shall be flamed together!
So obviously Im basically fine with Ryse @ 900p, but I doubt any game starts life with a 900p TARGET. So there was probably a step down from 1080p to 900p at some point. Your visual showpiece should probably be 1080p though.
Now 'The Order' is also using a funky resolution possibly letterboxed for a cinema feel...which I also think is a step down, so dont tell me about that, I agree.
Chobel
Member
Actually that proves it was 1080p.
Laughing_Man__
Neo Member
Add me to that list. 720/900 at 60 fps would be great.
NoMoreTrolls
Banned
I tend to agree, though some people are more sensitive to changes in resolution than others. Similarly, some have bigger screens than others that make these differences even more clear.
For some, this will be a huge deal. For others, they will be content with the way the game looks. I think it's a stunner, but I acknowledge that the opinion that the lowered resolution hinders image quality has merit.
Jigolo
Member
Yup neither do I. The game still looks fantastic. But I do love seeing delusional posts...
Pristine_Condition
Member
Not gonna flame you, but I wouldn't call the difference between 1080p and 900p "laughable." It's a difference of 30% in the amount of pixels rendered. 30% is a pretty significant reduction.
Either way, it doesn't matter for Ryse since you can only play one version of it, on Xbox One. Even if they could make it better on another platform, they can't so nobody has a choice but to play this version.Whether it looks great at 900p, or could have looked incredible at 1080p, it will never matter since it's 900p.
Unless we can get some direct feed video from the earlier builds, then we can never know. But it's hard not to notice 900p compared to 1080p, especially when your profession pretty much only deals with that.
Unless we can get some direct feed video from the earlier builds, then we can never know. But it's hard not to notice 900p compared to 1080p, especially when your profession pretty much only deals with that.