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Game Dev Hardware Platform Scorn dev talks about Xbox Series X console exclusivity, says CPU is more important than SSD for next gen

ANIMAL1975

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At peak, what is the difference between the two CPUs? 300mhz, right? Is that enough to make a huge difference? When I OC my CPU from 3.5 ghz to 4.5 ghz I got a boost but it wasn't life changing in games
If we consider SMT as 'at peak' XSX CPU runs at 3.6ghz so that's even smaller difference
it's only at single thread that it will be 3.8 and then the difference is around 8/9% (not sure) on paper.

There is also the issue of potentially the PS5 reducing the CPU further to keep the GPU at full frequency.
How much it drops, and how often we dont really know yet.
But the main purpose of the variable clocks it's to relocate power when it's not being used _ so if it's the CPU that is under heavy use, for example in a physics intensive scenario, it's for the CPU that the system shifts power.
It's got to do a lot of throttling because that darn SSD is just too fast.
That's the exact opposite (yes i know you're trolling) both companies invested in the SSD I/O architecture to lessen the use of the CPU in the storage related tasks.
In PS5 that investment was even bigger with the Kraken engine, two i/o co processors, the DMA co processor,... so, not really, not going to do a lot of throttling...

I do actually. Zealots on both sides of the console war love their plastic boxes too much.
Hey don't call my console a plastic box you you...
 
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geordiemp

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Look forward to the demos and gameplay, think I am past the CPU this, GPU that, SSD other theory, Velocity architecture super loading dynamic VRS VRR culling voxel mesh shader super soldier hyper system bollocks.

Show us. GAMEPLAY or I dont give a shit.

I have no idea what this game is, other than I was looking for sigorny weaver and something poppingout of her stomach on the Alien trailer

 
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FranXico

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This is simply not true, but it is affirmative to your rhetoric and that includes "muh bottlenecks".
There is no such thing as a zero cost abstraction layer (and the PS5 SDK will also have those), although the cost is usually very small. What the other poster said is true.
 

Monkeygourmet

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Given the specs are now in the open, it's clear that the Series X isn't that much of a jump over PS5 to offer any substainial uplift to titles.

A game that runs at 4k 30fps on PS5 won't "maigically" be able to run at 4K AND 60fps on Series X.

The real battle will be done with RT features and asset streaming which is where the SSD comes into play. I expect Series X to offer slightly better RT features but the PS5 to offer significantly better asset streaming which will actually make titles look and play better on that system. Obviously the Series X has SSD so there will be improvement over the previous gen but I beleive the PS5 is the better thought out machine for developers to get the most out of.

Even if the resolution on the PS5 is slightly beaten by Series X, I feel games will still look better due to higher quality assests, texture quality and less 'pop-in'.

4K is somewhat of a fools errand, even with the power of Series X...
 
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Aion002

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To think Scorn was supposed to come out in 2017.
Ebb Software is a small Serbian game development studio founded in 2013 with ten full time team members.



I think that is commendable their commitment.... However, at the same time I also can't stop feeling that they are bitting more than they can chew....

Now with MS promoting them, people will go with bigger expectations, I hope that they can respond to it.
 
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SplunkyMunkey

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Cpu is a massive jump im ssd is a masive jump to. Didnt they state also that the io on ps5 is pcie4 and series x is using last gen? Is true the fseries x has raw gpu performace but ps5 would draw more higher quality assets then series x due to higher speed of its SSD?

So my guess is that the resolution might just be abit higher on the series x. While ps5 would able to achieve a better framerate. LODS and since it has a much higher ssd it would able to swing higher quality assets like say running at a slight less on resolution but the assets could be 4k maybe higher
 
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Dodkrake

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Plus he’s right, I’ll take a faster CPU for better performance over one SSD’s slightly faster loading times over another SSD.
CPU is faster by 100 to 300Mhz, which is not even up to 10%. Real world will be negligible

SSD is more than twice as fast.

LOL
 
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Dodkrake

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Ryzen 3700X

Base clock: 3.6GHz
8 core / 16 thread

Comparison between stock and overclock to 4.25GHz, or a 0.625GHz bump over stock


Not scientific because we're talking about different processors, but claiming that an 8.2% difference (max) in CPU processing will achieve miraculous gains when a 16.6% difference doesn't is asinine.

Btw, similar results here on the 3600.

 

TBiddy

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The CPU is important, so it's a good thing both next gen machines have a good CPU. Yet a CPU is only as good as the devs you have at your disposal to use it......I think now that the CPU's are great on both sides, the SSD is indeed the gamechanger as can be seen in that UE5 demo and perhaps we will see even more impressive use of the SSD's from Sony first party.
Why are you making this thread about Sony first party?
 

Xplainin

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But the main purpose of the variable clocks it's to relocate power when it's not being used _ so if it's the CPU that is under heavy use, for example in a physics intensive scenario, it's for the CPU that the system shifts power.
Sure, but if the PS5 GPU is at it max of 2.23ghz, and there is unused CPU power, it wont be diverted to the GPU at all, as its already at its peak and cant go past that point.
Both the CPU and GPU cannot be at full power at the same time, obviously.
So for the GPU to be cranking at full 2.23ghz, the CPU wont be cranking at full 3.5ghz at the same time.
How much power the CPU has to drop by to make sure the GPU is at full tilt we dont know.
Might only be 100mhz for all we know.
 

Bogroll

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[QUOTE="ANIMAL1975, post: 258183873, member: 745429"

But the main purpose of the variable clocks it's to relocate power when it's not being used _ so if it's the CPU that is under heavy use, for example in a physics intensive scenario, it's for the CPU that the system shifts power.


[/QUOTE]
So we have to have less pretty, effects, graphics whatever they choose when the CPU is under heavy use. Sounds very compromised to me. Yeah most of us probably won't notice unless its a 400% DF zoomed in shot but it doesn't fill me with confidence.
 

Riven326

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Given the specs are now in the open, it's clear that the Series X isn't that much of a jump over PS5 to offer any substainial uplift to titles.

A game that runs at 4k 30fps on PS5 won't "maigically" be able to run at 4K AND 60fps on Series X.

The real battle will be done with RT features and asset streaming which is where the SSD comes into play. I expect Series X to offer slightly better RT features but the PS5 to offer significantly better asset streaming which will actually make titles look and play better on that system. Obviously the Series X has SSD so there will be improvement over the previous gen but I beleive the PS5 is the better thought out machine for developers to get the most out of.

Even if the resolution on the PS5 is slightly beaten by Series X, I feel games will still look better due to higher quality assests, texture quality and less 'pop-in'.

4K is somewhat of a fools errand, even with the power of Series X...
Yes. I think resolution may be scaled back slightly on PS5. But really, it's not something anyone will notice outside of a digital foundry analysis.
 

ToadMan

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I doubt we ever will know. It is obvious Sony is trying to sweep it under the rug by mentioning it once with some marketing speak and never again but happy to discuss tempest and SSD. Looks like the media let them off the hook unlike 2013 were they rightfully grilled Microsoft and the bullshit DRM. Every interview should lead with asking for hard numbers on the variable clocks to hold Sony to.
This isn’t equivalent at all. MS were hitting consumers directly in the wallet with a marketing decision they made.

This time we’re talking about the vagueries of a design choice that consumers won’t notice because the software will be built around that design choice.

MS were quite rightly pulled up and they quite rightly backed down.
 
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ToadMan

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Fair point, though taking it as a whole package I would still argue that the faster cpu, gpu, higher ram count and larger ssd is still the better alternative to just a faster ssd.

though sony could prove me wrong on that front, and I’d be fine with that.
I don’t think Sony’s SSD solution is “just a faster SSD”. If Sony can achieve the direct access speeds they’re claiming (which is minimum 5.5Gb/s) then this will change the way the games and game engines are designed and play.

Sony believe their solution will liberate game designs from the storage medium bottlenecks. Xsex is treating their SSD as a faster hard drive but ultimately just a storage medium. MS are constrained here because their games are cross platform - they have to design for the PC market which doesn’t necessarily have access speeds even as fast as Xsex, nevermind PS5.

Big difference in concept and implementation.
 

Andodalf

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CPU is faster by 100 to 300Mhz, which is not even up to 10%. Real world will be negligible

SSD is more than twice as fast.

LOL
The problem is that CPU can basically scale forever to give better FPS. I/O can’t. How much I/O is needed to eliminate any streaming issues for a game? The answer for any 3rd party game will probably be far less than either next gen console has. Even when SSD becomes the recommended spec on PC, it will refer to a Sata SSD, which is at least 4x slower than was XSX has. There will be no functional difference between the Sata SSD and the XSX, as both hit the needed I/O speed. The same will be true for PS5 and XSX. 2x doesn’t matter when .25x can do the exact same job. Even in the case of UE5, Tim said, “It's [PS5] got a God-tier storage system which is pretty far ahead of PCs, but on a high-end PC with an SSD and especially with NVMe, you get awesome performance too." It would appear his main contrast to PCs is with traditional HDD, not SSD. With XSX offering improved performance compared to any NVME available right now, it should be “awesome”. Sata might become the new baseline that has to worry about stutter, but NVME should be fine, and by extension the consoles.

TL/DR a 2x difference might not matter at all when it’s in a binary application where it’s either sufficient or not. I/O tends to work that way, CPU never really does.
 
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Silver Wattle

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You will.

Once the games come.
I hope you're trolling, but in case you are not; In what possible metric is an additional ~4% CPU performance going to show anything even remotely noticeable in a game?
Wasn't the PS4 clocked at 1.6Ghz and the XB1 at 1.75Ghz? An almost 10% difference, yet there's no perceivable difference.

If you bring up variable clocks I'm not even going to reply.
 

Xplainin

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Just as much as everything else about the PS5, I really want to see the cooling solution.
The heat coming off that GPU going flat stack must be huge.
 
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DESTROYA

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I can understand this, but cpu on sex is what? 10% faster than ps5 cpu?!

Does it really make a huge difference between the 2 console?
Not to the extent some people here think. If we were talking just a 300mhz advantage the 25%boost in GPU speed on the PS5 makes up for having a slightly slower CPU. If it’s anything like it is on PC try overclocking your CPU by 300mhz you won’t see a big difference in performance maybe a 2-3 more FPS.
I keep telling people performance between the 2 consoles on cross platform games one be as big as some people think it’s going to be.
 
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Gavon West

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The CPU is important, so it's a good thing both next gen machines have a good CPU. Yet a CPU is only as good as the devs you have at your disposal to use it......I think now that the CPU's are great on both sides, the SSD is indeed the gamechanger as can be seen in that UE5 demo and perhaps we will see even more impressive use of the SSD's from Sony first party.
So... Let me get this right: even though Series X has a more powerful CPU than PS5 (and everything else aside from SSD) , thats not a big deal because they both are generational leap from this gen.

But because PS5 has the faster SSD, even though the both have super fast SSD's, the PS5's is still noteworthy???? I mean, like, you literal have to ignore everything else in the Series X to put the SSD in the PS5 on this massive pedestal like people are doing..

Hmmm...
 
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Panajev2001a

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You will notice I said "cranking at full". That means full workload.
I'm talking about intensive work, at full speed.
You will see other CPU’s throttle too in some of those scenarios too hehe 😉. I think we are trying again to forcefully widen the gap and look at PS5 with undue concern.

With the same attitude, who is to say that 12.x TFLOPS is not just a figure they hit in synthetic benchmarks because it is bottlenecked by something they are hiding eh eh? Curiously, nobody does that in the green field but they are asking the PS supporters to do it instead...
 

Panajev2001a

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So... Let me get this right: even though Series X has a more powerful CPU than PS5 (and everything else aside from SSD) , thats not a big deal because they both are generational leap from this gen.

But because PS5 has the faster SSD, even though the both have super fast SSD's, the PS5's is still noteworthy????

Hmmm...
I lost the memo where XSX’s CPU is 2x as fast... mmh...
 

DESTROYA

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So... Let me get this right: even though Series X has a more powerful CPU than PS5 (and everything else aside from SSD) , thats not a big deal because they both are generational leap from this gen.

But because PS5 has the faster SSD, even though the both have super fast SSD's, the PS5's is still noteworthy???? I mean, like, you literal literally to ignore everything else in the Series X to put the SSD in the PS5 on this massive pedestal like people are doing..

Hmmm...
The CPU speed difference will barely be noticeable.
 

Gavon West

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The CPU speed difference will barely be noticeable.
If you say so champ.

Aside, none of this stuff is simply an increase on its own. You have to account that every part in both systems works in tandem with the others. Its when you add it all up is where having better performance, visuals, assets streaming etc is when things come into perspective. And that's not even mentioning the software assists that'll come into play. This is why having more powerful hardware in nearly every way will make a big difference. Just my take...
 
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Panajev2001a

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Seems that's not the only memo you lost. Literally everything else in Series X is more powerful than what you get in the PS5 aside from the SSD. And they both have exceptional SSD's. PS5 is just faster. I'll give em that...
Lol, you lose no chance to try to wave your e-peen like that. Nobody is arguing that the CPU in XSX is faster overall, nobody is arguing that XSX has faster shader throughput, but you still go at it as if you were a poster child for the Xbox fan who only cares about winning something and the opponent being a POS loser.
It seems like it is all about making your victory sound total and minimise the PR impact of your losses.
If XSX has an advantage you take it as factual and as a great victory, if PS5 has an advantage you need receipts and still you minimise it as if did not matter that much...

You exaggerate and also land on the wrong side of things IMHO, as we discussed many times before (but audio processing does. It matter, geometry pre processing does not matter, better async compute efficiency doesn’t not matter, SSD does not matter... 1s faster loading performance)and there are pros and cons to the approach to SMT support and performance impact of virtualisation, but you do you.
 

DESTROYA

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If you say so champ.

Aside, none of this stuff is simply an increase on its own. You have to account that every part in both systems works in tandem with the others. Its when you add it all up is where having better performance, visuals, assets streaming etc is when things come into perspective. And that's not even mentioning the software assists that'll come into play. This is why having more powerful hardware in nearly every way will make a big difference. Just my take...
Yeah I say so chump.

No shit! Isn’t that how every console made works all hardware working in tandem to run games.
 

Gavon West

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Yeah I say so chump.

No shit! Isn’t that how every console made works all hardware working in tandem to run games.
Aww! You in yo feelings boo boo? LMAO!

So why champion the SSD in the PS5 as if that's all these systems will offer? As I said, you literally have to ignore every other spec in the Series X to put the PS5 SSD on a pedestal like you dudes are doing. Its beyond ridiculous, especially when you consider Series X has its own super fast SSD as well.

That says all need be said right there.
 

ToadMan

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So... Let me get this right: even though Series X has a more powerful CPU than PS5 (and everything else aside from SSD) , thats not a big deal because they both are generational leap from this gen.

But because PS5 has the faster SSD, even though the both have super fast SSD's, the PS5's is still noteworthy???? I mean, like, you literal have to ignore everything else in the Series X to put the SSD in the PS5 on this massive pedestal like people are doing..

Hmmm...
The GPU CU clock is faster on PS5 .... just for info. Just over 20% faster in fact.
 
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DESTROYA

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Aww! You in yo feelings boo boo? LMAO!

So why champion the SSD in the PS5 as if that's all these systems will offer? As I said, you literally have to ignore every other spec in the Series X to put the PS5 SSD on a pedestal like you dudes are doing. Its beyond ridiculous, especially when you consider Series X has its own super fast SSD as well.

That says all need be said right there.
Lol...I can‘t take anything you say seriously after a post like that. Try again you and the OP are the biggest Xbox cheerleaders on GAF.
Pretty pathetic
 

Gavon West

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Lol, you lose no chance to try to wave your e-peen like that. Nobody is arguing that the CPU in XSX is faster overall, nobody is arguing that XSX has faster shader throughput, but you still go at it as if you were a poster child for the Xbox fan who only cares about winning something and the opponent being a POS loser.
It seems like it is all about making your victory sound total and minimise the PR impact of your losses.
If XSX has an advantage you take it as factual and as a great victory, if PS5 has an advantage you need receipts and still you minimise it as if did not matter that much...

You exaggerate and also land on the wrong side of things IMHO, as we discussed many times before (but audio processing does. It matter, geometry pre processing does not matter, better async compute efficiency doesn’t not matter, SSD does not matter... 1s faster loading performance)and there are pros and cons to the approach to SMT support and performance impact of virtualisation, but you do you.
Again. Overall, it is what it is. Nothing will change that. You've got balls to even talk about "lose". Its not about winning or losing. Its the fact that since the SSD is the one thing Sony fans can champion over the Series X, its apparently what next gen is all about. And I mean, its literally the only thing you guys rant and race about because that the one thing, the ONE THING the PS5 has over the Series X. Anyone with even a modicum of a brain understands why you guys literally mention NOTHING ELSE. There's a reason for that. You know why, just like everyone else does.

If the PS5 came in at the rumored 13Tf (like many were touting would be the case) this entire conversation would be solar system levels of different. Don't get bent broski. Its not that serious. Its just vidja games.
 
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Look...you still have a chance. Theres only like 20 comments. DELETE THIS THREAD.

Don't you know what happens to positive XBox news?
The same thing that happens to positive Sony News.

Xbox fans will praise it and Sony fans with downplay it. Whats your point? It happens with both systems.
 

Gavon West

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Lol...I can‘t take anything you say seriously after a post like that. Try again you and the OP are the biggest Xbox cheerleaders on GAF.
Pretty pathetic
Cheerleaders? For telling the truth??? Oh, you mean cause I'm not spouting off the narrative you wanna hear?

Oops! Lol.

I'm done. You guys believe what you will. We'll just have to see when the consoles release.
 

ToadMan

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Given the specs are now in the open, it's clear that the Series X isn't that much of a jump over PS5 to offer any substainial uplift to titles.

A game that runs at 4k 30fps on PS5 won't "maigically" be able to run at 4K AND 60fps on Series X.

The real battle will be done with RT features and asset streaming which is where the SSD comes into play. I expect Series X to offer slightly better RT features but the PS5 to offer significantly better asset streaming which will actually make titles look and play better on that system. Obviously the Series X has SSD so there will be improvement over the previous gen but I beleive the PS5 is the better thought out machine for developers to get the most out of.

Even if the resolution on the PS5 is slightly beaten by Series X, I feel games will still look better due to higher quality assests, texture quality and less 'pop-in'.

4K is somewhat of a fools errand, even with the power of Series X...
There’s not enough of difference between the systems to make a resolution bump possible on Xsex.

Might get an extra few FPS but even that isn’t clear because the PS5 GPU is higher clock than Xsex so maybe Xsex will drop an FPS or two.

Either way it’ll be so close that multiplats will be indistinguishable.
 

DESTROYA

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Cheerleaders? For telling the truth??? Oh, you mean cause I'm not spouting off the narrative you wanna hear?

Oops! Lol.

I'm done. You guys believe what you will. We'll just have to see when the consoles release.
Yeah run away like the like a little child like you always do, oh no someone said the CPU is only slightly better on the XsX so I‘m going to make believe he said something entirely different.
Read my post again #130 I never brought up anything else besides the slight bump in CPU speed and you get all spazzy thinking I was talking about your precious XsX as a whole. Get over yourself and grow up to have a normal conversation between adults instead of acting like someone personally insulted you.
 
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The only reason the SSD is the main focus of conversation is because it's the main (if not only) advantage of the PS5. If the console designs were flipped between Sony and Microsoft, no one would shut up about the TFLOPS and the velocity architecture instead.

I get it. Sony loves to do exotic things with their console. The cell on the PS3, the super fast SSD on the PS5. Just remember how Sony hyped the cell and how that turned out. I'm not saying the exact same thing will happen again. What I am saying is, that skepticism on PR talk is healthy.
We really dont know what advantages one have over the other quite yet. The SSD is highly touted because its the fastest one ever created put into a console that took further step to eliminate the i/o bottle necks in a time when devs have been clamoring for an SSD standard. Give credit where its due my man.
 

Gavon West

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Lol...I can‘t take anything you say seriously after a post like that. Try again you and the OP are the biggest Xbox cheerleaders on GAF.
Pretty pathetic
Your retort was legendary! Lmao. Thanks for your contribution.. Let's do lunch...
 

Gavon West

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Yeah run away like the like a little child like you always do, oh no someone said the CPU is only slightly better on the XsX so I‘m going to make believe he said something entirely different.
Read my post again #130 I never brought up anything else besides the slight bump in CPU speed and you get all spazzy thinking I was talking about your precious XsX as a whole. Get over yourself and grow up to have a normal conversation between adults instead of acting like someone personally insulted you.
Z fuck???
You realize your post is saying, "I was was talking about the slight bump in the CPU. Why'd you have to go off and bring up the whole system. I can't win there. Grow up why don't ya!"

lol. Whateves... Like I said, we'll see in a few months.
 

Bladed Thesis

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I don't think current gen CPUs were holding back A.I

F.E.A.R came out in 2005 and still has better A.I than most games nowadays
It's game development focus. AI is pretty far down on the totem poll when it comes to resources, time, personnel because consumers are more excited for flashy graphics or celebrity faces or whatever the latest trend is.
 
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Given the specs are now in the open, it's clear that the Series X isn't that much of a jump over PS5 to offer any substainial uplift to titles.

A game that runs at 4k 30fps on PS5 won't "maigically" be able to run at 4K AND 60fps on Series X.

The real battle will be done with RT features and asset streaming which is where the SSD comes into play. I expect Series X to offer slightly better RT features but the PS5 to offer significantly better asset streaming which will actually make titles look and play better on that system. Obviously the Series X has SSD so there will be improvement over the previous gen but I beleive the PS5 is the better thought out machine for developers to get the most out of.

Even if the resolution on the PS5 is slightly beaten by Series X, I feel games will still look better due to higher quality assests, texture quality and less 'pop-in'.

4K is somewhat of a fools errand, even with the power of Series X...
Do people not understand that the XSX has a built in SSD too? They each thier pros and cons but at the end of the day there going to be pretty close.