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[Felix Lighter]

wouldn't expect anything less from a cold-hearted killer.

But where is the redemption if he is still a psychopath to the end? The good he did was pretty minor compared to murder and the attempted framing of a man for his crimes, which came after all the good work.

 

[peaceiscloser]

Yes and then Andy becomes neglectful and Red hooks up with a golf pro and...

Lol! ok this makes the whole line of thinking worth it.

 

[SocksAndShoes]

andy is a fictional character.

So he's intelligent enough to try to frame someone else for the murder, but not to clean up bullets with his fingerprints on them?

........Right.......

 

[John Dunbar]

But where is the redemption if he is still a psychopath to the end? The good he did was pretty minor compared to murder and attempting to frame a man for his crimes, which came after all the good work.

he literally escaped from a prison, i'm sure you will recall.

So he's intelligent enough to try to frame someone else for the murder, but not to clean up bullets with his fingerprints on them?

........Right.......

smart people make mistakes. his was one that he could not wriggle out of. "threw the gun away without using it," yeah right.

 

[Yaboosh]

Sorry but this is a real pathetic theory. The movie offers no evidence to believe Andy did it. No small mentions or tidbits, easter eggs, nothing. Even those stupid Pokémon theories are more grounded than this.

They make kind of a big deal out of the fact that everybody says they are innocent.

 

[atr0cious]

then can you explain what exactly was the redemption for andy? "i was a bad husband"? not even an abusive one, if memory serves. i guess him admitting to beating his wife wouldn't really jive with the whole innocence bit.

re·demp·tion
rəˈdem(p)SH(&#601n/
noun
1.
the action of saving or being saved from sin, error, or evil.
"God's plans for the redemption of his world"
synonyms: saving, freeing from sin, absolution
"God's redemption of his people"
2.
the action of regaining or gaining possession of something in exchange for payment, or clearing a debt.

Andy did like he was told, buffed those shoes to a high mirror shine. The guards simply didn't notice. Neither did I... I mean, seriously, how often do you really look at a mans shoes? Andy crawled to freedom through five hundred yards of shit smelling foulness I can't even imagine, or maybe I just don't want to. Five hundred yards... that's the length of five football fields, just shy of half a mile. Andy Dufresne - who crawled through a river of shit and came out clean on the other side.

It makes for a good title about a prison break. The original title is a clue to the escape, Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption.

andy is a fictional character.

You had no problem saying Elmo was a liar.

 

[TwoDurans]

The book makes the kid's story even less believable. When he tells the story it's a Lawyer's wife, which Andy surmises to mean Banker.

Basically in the book there's not concrete proof that Andy is actually innocent.

 

[peaceiscloser]

re·demp·tion
rəˈdem(p)SH(&#601n/
noun
1.
the action of saving or being saved from sin, error, or evil.
"God's plans for the redemption of his world"
synonyms: saving, freeing from sin, absolution
"God's redemption of his people"
2.
the action of regaining or gaining possession of something in exchange for payment, or clearing a debt.



It makes for a good title about a prison break. The original title is a clue to the escape, Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption.

I see Shawshank Redemption as Also meaning the cleansing and redemption of the prison itself. Justice served to the corrupt officials in charge frees the prisoners of abuse, and in the case of Red, literally freed him. Andy was a catalyst for that redemption.

 

[atr0cious]

Another thing, Andy learns nothing but being able to live "safely" in prison and then escapes when he feels like it, if he was actually guilty, where the fuck is the redemption? Or is the title lying too?

 

[Felix Lighter]

he literally escaped from a prison, i'm sure you will recall.

I guess I wouldn't consider escaping from prison for a punishment you deserve for a crime you haven't atoned for, redemption.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

1. American Psycho: did he or did he not kill 1,2 many or 0 people? Or was it a case of temporary psychosis? Is the movie about a wealthy psychopath or about a diseased society so unable to pull itself from self-centeredness that it is willing to cover up grisly murders to maintain status quo or profitability?

This movie doesn't get enough credit for the theories even if the director said what her vision was. It holds up so well.

They make kind of a big deal out of the fact that everybody says they are innocent.

True but that's the point of the movie no? That Andy is in fact innocent.

 

[John Dunbar]

re·demp·tion
rəˈdem(p)SH(&#601n/
noun
1.
the action of saving or being saved from sin, error, or evil.
"God's plans for the redemption of his world"
synonyms: saving, freeing from sin, absolution
"God's redemption of his people"
2.
the action of regaining or gaining possession of something in exchange for payment, or clearing a debt.



It makes for a good title about a prison break. The original title is a clue to the escape, Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption.

he washed away his crime by crawling through shit (or at least attempted to). no one also seems to find it at all suspicious that he took a fortune with him as he went.

You had no problem saying Elmo was a liar.

because it fits the stereotypical role of a jailbird singing his songs.

I guess I wouldn't consider escaping from prison for a punishment you deserve for a crime you haven't atoned for, redemption.

it's not a very good movie.

 

[Beren the Empty-Handed]

Ya'll gettin' trolled.

 

[Talon]

Counterfactual fiction.

 

[Yaboosh]

This movie doesn't get enough credit for the theories even if the director said what her vision was. It holds up so well.



True but that's the point of the movie no? That Andy is in fact innocent.

I don't think any of the themes of the movie rely on Andy being innocent. Lot of people seem to though.

 

[exmachina64]

It's been a while since I've read it, but I thought the novella made it clear Andy killed his wife. The movie, of course, wanted Andy to be innocent because people can't deal with rooting for a murderer.

I don't think any of the themes of the movie rely on Andy being innocent. Lot of people seem to though.

There's a very fixed notion in America that if you commit a crime, you're guilty the rest of your life.

 

[atr0cious]

Ya'll gettin' trolled.

Agreed.

 

[John Dunbar]

There's a very fixed notion in America that if you commit a crime, you're guilty the rest of your life.

this might explain why i have no problem with him being a murderer. there's no one in my country who isn't getting out way before 20+ years or however long andy was in prison for such a crime.

 

[Cheerilee]

It's been a while since I've read it, but I thought the novella made it clear Andy killed his wife. The movie, of course, wanted Andy to be innocent because people can't deal with rooting for a murderer.


There's a very fixed notion in America that if you commit a crime, you're guilty the rest of your life.

Red was an admitted murderer, and audiences loved him.

 

[void666]

Lol at people being so defensive about this.
Personally i don't care. But i always wanted Andy to be guilty. A movie about a guy who goes to jail and is actually guilty? Woosh... Mindblowing.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

I have watched the movie many times, and this was always my interpretation. The way it begins is pretty clear that he did in fact kill her, and that he had no excuse for doing so, but didn't want to admit it. Red even comments on the fact that no one in the prison did anything, they are all innocent, when actually none of them are. Andy has no qualms at all, at any point about the fact his wife died or was even killed, because he fucking shot her himself.

I'm pretty stunned the general opinion seems to be that he didn't do it, and that it was just an amazing coincidence that even though he was there ready to kill her, someone else actually did it randomly. Come on Gaf.

 

[AlteredBeast]

I have watched the movie many times, and this was always my interpretation. The way it begins is pretty clear that he did in fact kill her, and that he had no excuse for doing so, but didn't want to admit it. Red even comments on the fact that no one in the prison did anything, they are all innocent, when actually none of them are. Andy has no qualms at all, at any point about the fact his wife died or was even killed, because he fucking shot her himself.

I'm pretty stunned the general opinion seems to be that he didn't do it, and that it was just an amazing coincidence that even though he was there ready to kill her, someone else actually did it randomly. Come on Gaf.

No, sorry. You fucked up.

 

[darscot]

I know the trolls are out and I should just stay out of this but...

What did you guys think the "invisible jacket" meant? How he could stroll through the prison yard like a man in the park. The beers, the music that fact that no matter what they couldn't break him.

 

[exmachina64]

this might explain why i have no problem with him being a murderer. there's no one in my country who isn't getting out way before 20+ years or however long andy was in prison for such a crime.

Red was an admitted murderer, and audiences loved him.

*shrug*

No one can hate Morgan Freeman.

 

[Gigglepoo]

My Shawshank Redemption theory has always been that Andy and Red's reunion at the beach was all just in Red's head, in keeping with the film's original ending in addition to the original source material.

"It's all in his head" is a theory that pops up for almost every movie, television series, and cartoon. That and the slightly different "his friend is imaginary" are so pervasive that they've become parodies of real theories. To even have a story with that twist now would be incredibly cliche, not because so many stories have that revelation, but because so many theories have been erroneous attributed to fiction that doesn't support them.

 

[Rudimental]

Lol at people being so defensive about this.
Personally i don't care. But i always wanted Andy to be guilty. A movie about a guy who goes to jail and is actually guilty? Woosh... Mindblowing.

Watch Chopper, then.

 

[MGHA]

Smith is the one.

 

[Wigdogger]

"It's all in his head" is a theory that pops up for almost every movie, television series, and cartoon. That and the slightly different "his friend is imaginary" are so pervasive that they've become parodies of real theories. To even have a story with that twist now would be incredibly cliche, not because so many stories have that revelation, but because so many theories have been erroneous attributed to fiction that doesn't support them.

I agree with you that these theories get pretty eye-rolling as they come up so often, but this work actually allows for that explanation (Darabont admitting the scene was added on, the original text being ambiguous, Red's "I hope..." and the filmic language of fading from the bus to the ocean right after him describing a "long journey.")

Whether they met or not is irrelevant; his spirit was free. The movie ending just puts a nice cherry on top.

 

[Pandaman]

Indeed. One character says "I didn't do it", another said "I did it", another told the first one "Someone told me he did it" and was willing to testify, and a warden killed the latter because of his knowledge. Even if the first two guys were lying (not like the second one had any real reason to, other than maybe wanting to brag), the third one clearly wasn't, and the warden took him seriously; so much, in fact, that he killed him in order to silence him. Andy's innocence couldn't be more obvious if the movie showed it across the screen in a huge red Comic Sans font.

That is a very generous reinterpretation of the wardens actions. The warden killed Tommy because he didn't want any outside attention being directed towards the guy running his scams. It had nothing to do with believing Tommy, and everything to do with not disrupting the money.

 

[Spectral Glider]

Actually, there was no Andy. Red just went nuts from all those years in prison.

 

[Soriku]

Jesus faked his death.

 

[Christine]

I never really thought of it before, but now that I see this thread, its got me thinking about it.

Everyone in the prison is "innocent". "Lawyers fucked me." So who is to say some of those other inmates don't have some innocence story like Andy. If everyone is innocent, surely they have concocted a story as to why they couldn't have done it. Andy is no different. Andy telling Red he didn't do it is just him sticking to the inmate theme of everyone being innocent. If you didn't do it you need to at least have some story as to why.

The novella makes a big deal about how Red's heard this story from everyone he's done time with, but Andy is the only person who he's ever believed. The story is really without any point or purpose if Andy isn't innocent. Or, at least, if Red doesn't completely believe it. Because that's how Red comes to understand guilt and repentance well enough to make the parole board believe that he's rehabilitated.

 

[Pandaman]

The novella makes a big deal about how Red's heard this story from everyone he's done time with, but Andy is the only person who he's ever believed. The story is really without any point or purpose if Andy isn't innocent.

The point of the story is Reds redemption and moving past his life of going through the motions in prison and believing there was something worth living for outside the walls. Compare the two parole scenes and you find the point.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

No. That defeats the point of the story. Another important line of dialogue from Andy that people are forgetting, which would make zero sense if Andy is guilty:

Yeah. The funny thing is - on the outside, I was an honest man, straight as an arrow. I had to come to prison to be a crook.

I just don't get what the point of the theory is anyways.

If Andy is guilty, what was King trying to tell the reader?

Absolutely stupid as fuck. Defeats the whole purpose of the story.

This