Byakuya769
Member
I love SMG.. but how can you use it as an example in a motion controller debate?
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*Shock and AWE* Sony Says Move is NOT Wii on PS3
- Thread starter Baki
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timetokill
Banned
mr_nothin said:
Out of curiosity, is Sony (er.. SONY) trying to officially call it MOVE instead of Move? Just wondering about your capitalization there.
Byakuya769 said:
Did you play the game?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
um, because its a game heavily steeped in traditional gameplay and control that uses motion control almost perfectly as a supplement to complement the regular, very hardcore action?Byakuya769 said:
Saint Gregory
Member
What I was thinking. Part of what makes it a good example is that you forget how much of it there is. I remeber when someone in another thread brought up SMG1 as an example of motion done right I scratched my head because all I remembered was the waggle spin and totally forgot about the other motion controls.timetokill said:
EmCeeGramr
Member
you guys will argue over anything
Because I think it's superiortimetokill said:
But seriously though, I think it was being typed out in all caps, by a bunch of people on here, before it was officially announced. I guess it just kinda stuck with me. Havent seen the official way they typed it out until I just looked it up now.
Byakuya769
Member
I own the game, why else would I ask the question. The motion controls added absolutely nothing to the game, other than potentially embarrassing picture opportunities.
The_Technomancer said:
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Amir0x said:
Wait.
Am I talking to the same Amir0x who constantly rails against the gimmicky broken nature of motion control in almost every Wii thread? I must not be, because that Amir0x turning around 180 degrees and saying that all else equal (which is what you, surely an imposter, quoted) the sheer act of better graphics absolves the console of its motion control woes would be pretty damn hypocritical.
Again I say, I find i dubious that a few tenths of a degree of difference across the same styles of games will do much to change the status quo that the real Ami is so vehemently against.
I was actually excited for the Wii. I just didnt like the direction they took it after a while. Buncha mini-games and no 1:1 for fps games.avatar299 said:
I won't care about the Move either, if they take it the same route. So far we've been sweet talked into believing that they'll be more hardcore focused. What they've shown so far has been a contradiction of that but I'm being cautiously optimistic. (in the same way I was for the Wii)
But you know....maybe I just hated motion controls until SONY did it? lol
Why must everything be so black and white?DeaconKnowledge said:
Does a grey/gray area not exist on GAF?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Okay, the ball rolling and manta races maybe (tho I think ball rolling is awesome), but if we include IR on the list of "Wii/Move features", you can't say that the pointer controls didn't add quite a bit to the gameplay, from pull-stars to bubble blowers. This isn't even a Galaxy gush post or anything, the point I was trying to make is that Galaxy is a proof-of-concept of sorts that original uses for these kind of controllers exist and can be integrated with solid gameplay outside of shooters/swordfighters/minigames.Byakuya769 said:
I'm a Nintendo fan, straight up, but you know what? I've seriously been considering buying a PS3 recently, and if Sony can show me some compelling reasons to grab Move as well, I'll be all over it. But they'll need to show me that they can do something different then Nintendo, or hell, maybe even better then Nintendo (....we'll see)
DeaconKnowledge said:
I'm almost speechless that's what you interpreted from my comments.
I am fully, 100% against motion controls in their current state. That includes MOVE, with or without HD. I believe they've got too many issues to be fully acclimated to the types of games -I- like.
My comment is speaking from the hypothetical position of someone who DOES like motion controls.
Let's say I'm a wii fan, I love motion controls! Hey GAF, I'm a Wii fan who loves motion controls! All day long I fellate Nintendo about their strategy and their motion controller technology. One day, a competitor comes along and improves upon the technology, only it's going to be used on a platform with even more power. So here you have a system with better technology, better online and now, the controller technology I claim to love.
Do I...
a.) Bitch about the market for grandma
b.) Say Sony is a big copycat loser and should go home with that shit!
c.) Say Sony misses the point for actually decided to aim games more at me, the hardcore gamer, as opposed to my Great Aunt Gertrude
d.) All of the above
Or do I...
e.) Say "Hey, you know, I like motion controller technology and I am glad another company is deciding to improve upon it while simultaneously focusing on the type of gamer I am in the first place!"
The problem is that individuals in this thread and elsewhere and doing A-C, instead of what they should be doing, which is E.
Do you understand now DeaconKnowledge or are you going to somehow extrapolate than I'm advocating for MOVE again?
I hope Sony is able bring about the potential that remains unfulfilled with the Wii, the reason I and a lot of others were initially excited about it. But as it is, it doesn't look like Sony understands the reason why Wii is so successful and is trying to imitate it's success without that understanding.mr_nothin said:
Sony should've thought about the obvious Wii comparisons while they were designing the Move, particularly in finalising the hardware. The wrist strap, sub controller, etc all scream Wii, and they were all only unveiled when the hardware was finalised. Sure the underlying technology is different, but that's all masked by the obvious Wii rip-off look and feel the Move has.
Now they're all "No this isn't the Wii, this is about precision! Learning curve!" What does that even mean? They brought the comparison on themselves with the design of the Move.
What I want:blu said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VBMEN5Bvpg
This is what I dont want:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jeLjaSa0bA&feature=related
(also seems to show how the Move can do "pointing")
AceBandage
Banned
mr_nothin said:
So... it can do exactly what the Wiimote can do?
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Amir0x said:
Fair enough, but fanboys will be fanboys.
I could just as easily take up the argument that it's funny how somehow, what Sony is doing has legitimized Motion control, despite Nintendo doing wha Sony has shown often in the exact same fashion. All i'm going to get is arguments of "yeah but they're gonna do it in core games which has totally never happened before" and other twisted fuckery. Why act surprised? Just build a castle out of the idiot clay, then smash it with a hammer.
AceBandage
Banned
mr_nothin said:
...
Ooook.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
mr_nothin said:
Hmm...
1. You don't know what 1:1 means.
2: What games are these? Pretty much every game since MOH allows you to lock the camera.
3. What you posted has little to do with technology and everything to do with coding.
timetokill
Banned
Byakuya769 said:
So the manta ray and ball rolling added nothing to the game? Did you think the pointer-functionality (a key component of the Wii Remote) also added nothing?
And the shake move for the spin worked well. It was a great way to simplify combat in a 3D perspective.
Picture opportunities?
1. I do know what 1:1 means. 1:1 was a catch phrase that was used to describe the crosshair staying in the middle of the screen, devs used it to tell people why stuck with the other method. You're trying to get overly technical.DeaconKnowledge said:
2. I'd like to know these games please.
3. Duh, I know that. I didnt say the Wii couldnt do it. Most fps games dont allow it. I wasnt complaining about the technical abilities of the wiimote when I complained about that. I was simply stating that I didnt like the direction devs went with the wiimote. How's that hard to understand?
EmCeeGramr
Member
No it wasn't. 1:1 is a catchphrase for on-screen animation that exactly matches the motion of the controller.mr_nothin said:
Which the Wii really hasn't done, mind you, but that's beside the definition.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
mr_nothin said:
...
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
i could have never guessed what you meant by what you said ; )mr_nothin said:
fixed reticule is just an alternative way to play fps to the wii's focus-area pointer scheme. there's nothing '1:1', or at least 'more 1:1' in ether of them. and move would have the same issues as the wiimote there if the cam tacking is used, versus gyros. also, i'm not yet convinced move would be the better pointing device precision-wise. but i hope sony did their best there.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
well, it made a certain amount of sense, in that with no dead zone the camera responds instantly to your movement.mr_nothin said:
Eteric Rice
Member
EmCeeGramr said:
Technically, isn't 1:1 impossible? There's always going to be lag, the question for developers is "Will they notice?"
Kind of like image lag on old LCD monitors. If you looked hard enough, you'd notice the latency issues.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
mr_nothin said:Earlier in the Wii's life, people used 1:1 out of context to de a fixed crosshair...
I cant be the only one who remember's this.
Edit:
I still thought people used it like that but I guess I'm out of the loop
Fixed crosshair/reticule it is
"Earlier in this morning I saw some idiots jump off of a cliff, so I did it too."
As everyone could tell just by looking at the hilarious dildo controller: Sony learnt entirely the wrong lessons off of the wii controller it both looks like a ripoff to the casual consumer but also inapproachable. Microsoft appears to have learnt the right ones whilst not seeming like a copycat.
Freezie KO
Banned
Amir0x said:
I don't know if people, particularly on GAF, are fans of "motion control technology." It's like saying you're a fan of analog sticks. Nobody's actually a fan of hardware like that. People are fans of the software that the hardware enables.
I'm a fan of Wii Sports Resort and Red Steel 2, not because I can go wave my arms around like an epileptic. I'm a fan of them because they are refined experiences that provide something NEW to the hobby I love. I didn't suddenly buy games I wasn't interested in just because they offer motion controls.
I think that's why a lot of Wii fans, and people in general, aren't excited by MOVE. It doesn't really offer a new proposition. It offers what the Wii offers, but in HD. This was the exact paradigm that was rejected at the beginning of the generation.
Further, this is why we see much less bitching, at least from the so-called "Wii fans," about Natal. Natal is at least trying to accomplish something new. Perhaps controller-less gaming can offer something truly NEW, and that's why its implications for gaming are more interesting than MOVE. Ultimately with Natal, like every other hardware input mechanism, the efficacy will be determined by the software.
Unfortunately, "innovation" became a derided catchphrase, rather than the hope for something unique to play. Certainly, the proposition of Wii wasn't completely fulfilled, so that is where both the excitement and cynicism for MOVE come from.
Honestly, if PS3 has MOVE with Call of Duty 7, then it will probably have the best version of the top-selling FPS on any console. MOVE certainly has its advantages. Nonetheless, its appearance as a "copycat," as you say, rightfully causes cynicism about its direction and its ultimate potential for what Wii buyers, especially here at GAF, were actually wanting. Not motion control. But something new.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
Patch knows the Ps3 isn't the Wii Hd but hell... an analyst that is wrong?! DISTANCE YOUR SELF!!!!
me personally? screw all the waggle options hard. Lets get back to the old way of just massive power upgrades - all this shitty alt controls and 3d are a massive distraction :/
(now to play Batman 3d!!11)
me personally? screw all the waggle options hard. Lets get back to the old way of just massive power upgrades - all this shitty alt controls and 3d are a massive distraction :/
(now to play Batman 3d!!11)
Got back from the bar to see that Amir0x just slain people in this thread.
People are getting really desperate now. "I want to game to escape reality, not live in it. When I get home from the office, I don't want that AR-15 to feel like one, I want it to shoot with limitations strategically set so I can have fun". :lol
Really, it's "too precise for fun" now? Wow. And it's not like devs won't tune this as seen fit.
People are getting really desperate now. "I want to game to escape reality, not live in it. When I get home from the office, I don't want that AR-15 to feel like one, I want it to shoot with limitations strategically set so I can have fun". :lol
Really, it's "too precise for fun" now? Wow. And it's not like devs won't tune this as seen fit.
The confusion is due to Sony's own blunder. They named the gadget "Move" totally disregarded PSEye's camera, 4-array mic capability, and Cell's computation power for intensive recognition algorithms.
SingStar supports speech recognition, EyePet supports sketch recognition, Eye of Judgment supports card reading, the Puppetry demo allows half body tracking, EyeToy Kinetics supports full body tracking, etc. etc. etc., and yet, they could only think of "Move" (>_<)
"Arc" (if it stands for alternate reality controller) may indeed be more accurate to describe Move's functions.
EDIT: If I were Sony, I would downplay "Move". Basically, scope it to mean the waggle controller only. Come up with a different name for the total experience that includes online multiplayer, augmented reality, motion tracking, computer vision, hearing, and other AI functions. Then they don't even need to talk about the differences because it'd be so obvious to everyone that "X" and "Wii" are different things altogether.
SingStar supports speech recognition, EyePet supports sketch recognition, Eye of Judgment supports card reading, the Puppetry demo allows half body tracking, EyeToy Kinetics supports full body tracking, etc. etc. etc., and yet, they could only think of "Move" (>_<)
"Arc" (if it stands for alternate reality controller) may indeed be more accurate to describe Move's functions.
EDIT: If I were Sony, I would downplay "Move". Basically, scope it to mean the waggle controller only. Come up with a different name for the total experience that includes online multiplayer, augmented reality, motion tracking, computer vision, hearing, and other AI functions. Then they don't even need to talk about the differences because it'd be so obvious to everyone that "X" and "Wii" are different things altogether.
Wii turns out to be a great name for Nintendo's motion tracking console. It conveyed the fun, get-up-and-play experience really well. There was none like it. Wii is easy to remember and unique too.
Move... not so much. Too generic although the product is indeed much more than just precise motion tracking. The name automatically limits a consumer's perception to "motion" only.
Move... not so much. Too generic although the product is indeed much more than just precise motion tracking. The name automatically limits a consumer's perception to "motion" only.
j^aws
Member
mr_nothin said:Earlier in the Wii's life, people used 1:1 out of context to describe a fixed crosshair...
I cant be the only one who remembers this.
Edit:
I still thought people used it like that but I guess I'm out of the loop
Fixed crosshair/reticule it is
No, you're not the only one to use 1:1 in that context as a ratio. One-to-one mouse movement to pointer movement is a perfectly valid interpretation. During the launch window, there was discussion on whether the Wiimote could improve on the Mouse for FPS control...
OldJadedGamer
Banned
mr_nothin said:
#1 rule about posting and saying you are leaving the thread means that you will always be back.
Version 3.0
Member
Amir0x said:
You missed
f.) say that E is indeed what I'd like to see, but it doesn't look like Sony's actions match their words. We shall see. Also,
g.) it's too bad that even if Sony does do E, the Move is likely to be poorly supported and not very successful.
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
I'm really hoping the reason we haven't seen anything from Last Guardian in awhile is because they are adding some kind of awesome Move support.
This?selig said:
No, it's actually just tracking orientation. Little known smoke and mirrors effect by Nintendo.selig said:
Sure, I've seen the LiveMove tech demos, but the actions in those demos are only achievable when you can recalibrate the controller very, very often. In real gaming environments, recalibrating is not practical.