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Should we boycott Shadow Complex?

Adam Prime said:
Here's a good question, when's the last time a boycott actually worked?

... How about all those Christians who boycotted Disney a few years ago because they had a "Gay Day" at the theme parks. Gee, they really hit Disney World hard.
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You are correct, because one boycott against a major corporation in the early 1990s didn't cause the company to change its policies 180, that means no other consumer boycotts have ever since worked.
 
KuwabaraTheMan said:
Did you read Empire? While it gets criticized as being anti-democrat at first, and it may seem like that early on (uncomfortably so at points), the point of the book (at least in my interpretation) was that the radicals on both sides were just as dangerous.
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Eh, I think you're being too generous here. While there were some right-wing radicals, their
attempted coup
was easily defused
by a simple speech on TV by a no-name soldier
. Whereas the left-wing radicals, y'know, made some mechs and took over New York City (
mercilessly killing anyone in uniform, if memory serves, including police, etc.
).

It wasn't completely one-sided, no, but it was by no means even-keeled.

As for topic, if I had an XBox 360 I'd be all over this game 'cause it looks like a lot of fun. But, I would probably feel bad and go with the advice in the OP: donate an equal or greater amount to a pro-gay charity. Seems reasonable, and the game looks worth $30.

Oh, and despite his political views, OSC is one of my favorite authors. Ender's Game, Alan Maker, Homecoming, Pastwatch, all good stuff.
 
hyduK said:
There's probably more than one homophobic employee on any given development team, we should boycott gaming.
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This. In a large group of people you're going to get various "non desireable" personalities. Hell, you might have racists, homophobes, sexual predators, etc. etc.. The only difference here being you have an activist vs the silent type.

The activist is clearly doing things to draw attention to themselves and thus the eye for an eye response.

Persoanlly, I have the game already and nothing disclosed today would have done anything to consider otherwise.
 
Segata Sanshiro said:
Looking at this thread, clearly nobody. That's why no one is posting, including yourself. And me. And that guy underneath me. The dude above, too.
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Your post is at the top of the page. There's no dude above.

Unless you're one of those 100 posts per page wierdos.
 
bill0527 said:
Its kind of like this Whole Foods boycott. Lets boycott the store because we have a disagreement with the CEO on health care or other political issues all while acting like we're doing it because we care about people. Yeah, well where's your compassion for those Whole Foods employees you're going to put into the unemployment line and leave stranded without - by all accounts, a pretty good company sponsered health care plan? These people are like most Americans, and are just working stiffs trying to collect a paycheck and could care less what you or anyone else's personal beliefs may be.
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If I ever heard the CEO say all that, I'd think he was using his employees as meat shields.

(Just to be clear, I don't think he did say that.)
 
SPEA said:
Yes...everyone from Utah is somehow tied to a Anti Gay Marriage association.
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Put it this way-

Imagine if a game had a story by L Ron Hubbard. A lot of people would have nothing to do with it, given his views. Then imagine if the game's developer was based in Clearwater, Florida. Would it be a stretch to put two and two together and come to the conclusion that most likely the developer was filled with Scientologists, as Clearwater is the world HQ of Scientology?

It seems more than a coincidence that Card has been involved with not one but two games (Advent Rising) that were created by the same developers based in Provo, Utah.
 
Princess Skittles said:
I thought I couldn't hate the internet any more than I already did.

Congratulations dude, this is an accomplishment.
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So, let me get this straight... some people have a serious and honest belief that homosexuals should have equal rights when it comes to things like marriage, those people decide they don't want to support a game because the money may be going to one (or more) people who actively fight against homosexuals having those equal rights, and you think that's a stupid attitude to have?

I don't know your situation, but it's possible that you don't give a damn about this cause because you have no involvement in it. It's easy to brush things aside when they don't affect you. For the people on here, and elsewhere, to whom the rights of homosexuals is a big deal, it makes perfect sense that they might not want their money going to such people.

I really wanted Shadow Complex, but now I may have to re-consider. Yes, fine, I'm sure EVERYTHING can be linked to something bad. But buying a pair of shoes when I need shoes, and not supporting a piece of entertainment that I'll get along just fine without are two totally different things. The people in this thread who are laughing at those taking this seriously, and are pulling out the "well now I'm going to buy the game haha!" are pathetically immature.

If you don't agree with the opinion that maybe this game should be boycotted for this reason, great, I can totally respect that. But to mock others for thinking this is a serious issue is nothing but childish.
 
The connection is too indirect. Purchasing from select companies because you feel others violate human rights, polute the planet, or just generally represent everything that is wrong with corporate America - that I can understand.

But once you start boycotting products simply because someone involved with the said product has some ideas that you don't agree with...well there's simply no connection. Whether you buy the game or not isn't going to change his mind - I doubt he'd even get the message, so I dont' see the point. It'd be about as relevant as giving him a kick in the ass and running away before he can see who did it or why.
 
So many immature idiots in this thread. The fact that OSC is a homophobe is not the main cause for concern. The concerns lies in the fact that he is a homophobe who has a lot of power and actively pursues to take away rights from gay people. There is a huge difference. Buying this game helps fund OSC and in return, helps him fund his hate filled work against gay people. If you can't see how some people might have a problem with this then politely shut the fuck up and fucking mature a little before you start talking about shit you clearly don't understand.
 
:lol

I'm buying this game today. Thanks for the heads up! I'm all for gay rights and everything, but this is absurd.

Hell, I find abortion about 15 million, billion, quadrillion times more offensive than people who are against gay marriage and I think gays should be able to get married and do whatever the hell they please. If I boycotted every game that had pro abortion people working on it, I'd be stuck playing the bible game (and maybe not even that).

Hell, in one case you're killing a person, in the other you just don't want some dude to put a ring on and do whatever they do. I think the killing of a person is worse. I'm crazy like that though. As I like to say, I'm pro choice. If you didn't choose to have sex with someone, ie you were raped or molested, then you should be allowed an abortion. If you chose to have sex with someone, you made your choice. There's ALWAYS a risk of pregnancy. If you choose to shoot heroine, there's a risk you could get addicted. You can't undo that choice, why should you be able to undo sexual choices and kill your baby? If you don't want the baby, put it up for adoption. Your belly gets flabby? Boo hoo, you made your choice. So yeah, I'm not boycotting people who've spoken in favor of abortion, I wouldn't have any video games or movies to watch if I did.
 
TheExodu5 said:
Your post is at the top of the page. There's no dude above.

Unless you're one of those 100 posts per page wierdos.
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I am intolerant of your antiquated 50 posts per page worldview. Let us do battle on cable television!
 
A few weeks ago I was at a party and a friend of a friend asked me what TV shows I watch... my list included 30 Rock, and he said he wouldn't watch it because Tina Fey and Alec Baldwin are liberals. I told him that was retarded, I guess he would fit in well around here
aside from being conservative
.


Do any of the people boycotting Shadow Complex have friends or relatives that are opposed to gay marriage? I'm not sure what the current poll numbers are but I assume a slight majority opposes it... do you folks like not talk to those people or invite them over for Thanksgiving?

FlyinJ said:
It should be noted that Chair Entertainment is based in Provo, Utah.
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Chris Remo said:
I was under the impression the Chair Entertainment principle figures were also Mormon.
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The vast majority of Muslims and a large percentage of Christians are also mostly anti-gay marriage, right? Boycott all development studios whose principle figures are Muslim or Christian.

What about anti-abortion developers? Can someone compile a list of anti-abortion developers to boycott?

What about black people? Proposition 8 would have passed if the majority of black CA voters had not opposed it. Boycott all games made by black people. Or developers based in majority black cities. And Obama for being responsible for more black people showing up to vote in November 2008 than usual.
 
TheSeks said:
Another junior bites the dust?

In any case: I'm torn between buying Shadow Complex and not. On one hand, it is a good Metroidvania that I think anyone that is interested in that genre should try the demo of.

On the other: Orson Scott Card is involved and I don't like Orson Scott Card or his books/worldviews.

I think I'm going to pass until there is a sale of it (hah, like that'll happen given the brisk day-one sales it's gotten). Or if Epic/Chair give me a free copy (as if that'll happen).
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Are you just assuming you wouldn't like his books due to his views or have you actually read any of his books? Either way, I don't think many people would be attracted to this game because of the story. If you are into sidescrollers and don't play this game, your hurting yourself more than Card.
 
This is not the same as a lead programmer being a homophobe people. Card actively funds actions to deny gay marriage, not just a hateful person with an opinion. He is successful and money wise has more to put toward such things.
 
Grecco said:
Are we going to stop funding Utah based game companies? Eat Sleep Game is based in Utah, and judging from the large amount of twitters on the subject, David Jaffe seems very much in favor of gay rights. Should we not support him because his company is in Utah?
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SuperEnemyCrab said:
I live in Utah, I am not Mormon and fully support gay marriage. I think your stereotyping an entire state is way out of whack dude.
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I'm sorry, I might have expressed that in a way which might suggest something I did not mean. What I was implying is that a Utah company with founders who are good friends with OSC, suggests to me that the company's ideals are likely a lot more aligned with Card's than a casual professional friendship.
 
Acosta said:
It's called democracy, people vote whatever shit they want, no matter how idiotic it is.

That said, I fully approve anyone voting with their money, it's a personal right. However, make sure of how many workers in California voted for Prep 8, and make sure to boycott everything they are involved, because you are supporting their cause with your money. At the same time, try to research how many companies have contracted people who oppose to gay-marriage, so you can have a comprehensive list of everything you don't want to support with your money. Good luck.
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No need to do that. It's pretty easy to be aware of the (extremely few) people who are publicly and vehemently working against principles I support, not some dude who just disagrees in his private life and votes differently to me.
 
lawblob said:
Are you 12? Glenn Beck literally lost all of his sponsors last week because of mass consumer boycotts.

I don't understand the faux-maturity of pretending to be helpless consumers, or that it is somehow stupid to make political statements via purchase decisions. Organized consumer boycotts are one of the few effective political tools that consumers have.
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Yeah, because comparing Glenn Beck's personal show to a game made by dozens of developers, one of whom is Orson Scott Card, is a great analogy.:lol Stick to ad hominem next time, your insults aren't very original, but they are better than your non-arguments.

If your boycotts are so incredibly effective, then why, boycotting Shadow Complex should be mega successful! I guess that means it would make Orson Scott Card too poor to post his views on the internet? Is that what the OP was going for?

lawblob said:
You are correct, because one boycott against a major corporation in the early 1990s didn't cause the company to change its policies 180, that means no other consumer boycotts have ever since worked.
Click to expand...

You don't seem to understand that while a boycott with broad support might make a difference, a boycott with minimal support certainly never will. And the OP's outlining of a boycott is little more than a joke, that's for sure.
 
joelseph said:
What is wrong with showing the OP a little respect? So many assholes up in this thread.
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I'd just like to second this.

Stop behaving like animals. If you disagree with the OP, you can disagree without being an obnoxious idiot.
 
A notorious homophobe? I bet he's a raging closet queen. We should give him what he really wants...who's up for an all-male orgy?
 
xbhaskarx said:
The vast majority of Muslims and a large percentage of Christians are also mostly anti-gay marriage, right? Boycott all development studios whose principle figures are Muslim or Christian.
Click to expand...

Ban Christian and Muslim studios? No. Ban Christian (Mormon) studios who employ outspoken, hateful homophobic bigots? Yes.
 
...This thread is dumb. Why does Card get special attention? Why should I boycott him through this awesome game? Some people hate homosexuality, and he is one of them. One of quite a few. It's dumb that he is like this, but there are many people who poured their heart into this game that, I'm sure, despise Card's beliefs. They deserve my $15. I feel this is just another ol' hypersensitive thread on GAF. Back to Shadow Complex.
 
Hey you guys I heard Bioshock is heavily tide to Ayn Rand's philosophy and in fact SUPPORTS IT. Lets boycott this POS game for supporting other peoples views that differ from our own. (Ayn Rand believed in privately owned water sources so poor people who couldn't afford it wouldnt get water)
 
Maybe we should all boycott Microsoft and the 360 too because they allowed these homophobes on XBLA?

I mean Microsoft is practically funding an anti gay movement here by allowing these guys to make money.
 
seriously. most downloadable games don't sell well for him to even notice. i bet he barely gets enough to buy himself a new 360.

seriously, if we started boycotting all the places that are run by or owned by fiercely homophobic people, we'd probably be growing our own gardens on our balconies.

you can take comfort in this though:

Eric Allman said:
There is some sort of perverse pleasure in knowing that it's basically impossible to send a piece of hate mail through the Internet without its being touched by a gay program. That's kind of funny.
Click to expand...
 
xbhaskarx said:
The vast majority of Muslims and a large percentage of Christians are also mostly anti-gay marriage, right? Boycott all development studios whose principle figures are Muslim or Christian.
Click to expand...
My point with that was not to suggest that all games developed by Mormons should be boycotted. It was simply in response to suggestions that the Chair founders were not on board with Card's stance.

As I've said in this thread countless times, there's a difference between people who have their own opinions that are different to mine, which is fine, and people who actively and publicly and vehemently work to support things I find morally objectionable.
 
APF said:
I don't think the point is really, someone on the project may have views I find objectionable, therefore I refuse to have my money "fund" them. I feel that's an unsustainable principle to attempt to hold yourself to. The point should be, Card was brought into the project in order to enhance its profile, raise its legitimacy, and generate interest; your political goal therefore is to project the message that the exact opposite will be the case, that his being attached to a project will harm it.
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Very well said.
 
sn00zer said:
Hey you guys I heard Bioshock is heavily tide to Ayn Rand's philosophy and in fact SUPPORTS IT. Lets boycott this POS game for supporting other peoples views that differ from our own. (Ayn Rand believed in privately owned water sources so poor people who couldn't afford it wouldnt get water)
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You should ask your folks to buy you BioShock, play it, then comment on it.
 
MvmntInGrn said:
Because no one in here cares right?

How ignorant.
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Where did I say nobody cared? I was pretty direct about referring to the 'YOU MUST JOIN IN' sentiment, I thought.

Maybe that 'how ignorant' was a personal reflection on your part?
 
Chrange said:
If you want to, go ahead. I don't understand campaigning to get people who honestly just don't care about it to join in though.
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Maybe he made this thread to bring the issue to people who did care but just didn't know?
 
shidoshi said:
So, let me get this straight... some people have a serious and honest belief that homosexuals should have equal rights when it comes to things like marriage, those people decide they don't want to support a game because the money may be going to one (or more) people who actively fight against homosexuals having those equal rights, and you think that's a stupid attitude to have?

I don't know your situation, but it's possible that you don't give a damn about this cause because you have no involvement in it. It's easy to brush things aside when they don't affect you. For the people on here, and elsewhere, to whom the rights of homosexuals is a big deal, it makes perfect sense that they might not want their money going to such people.

I really wanted Shadow Complex, but now I may have to re-consider. Yes, fine, I'm sure EVERYTHING can be linked to something bad. But buying a pair of shoes when I need shoes, and not supporting a piece of entertainment that I'll get along just fine without are two totally different things. The people in this thread who are laughing at those taking this seriously, and are pulling out the "well now I'm going to buy the game haha!" are pathetically immature.

If you don't agree with the opinion that maybe this game should be boycotted for this reason, great, I can totally respect that. But to mock others for thinking this is a serious issue is nothing but childish.
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Well said.
 
FateBreaker said:
...This thread is dumb. Why does Card get special attention?
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Because he is actively fighting to stop homosexual couples from having the right to get married, and some people, I dunno, think that's a pretty fucked up thing to do?
 
Takao said:
One person out of a bunch of people who developed a game isn't a reason to boycott. Heck, doesn't the man who composes the score for Dragon Quest games still thinks in the way that some Japanese did durring WW2? I'm not boycotting Dragon Quest because of him.
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IMO that's only because Dragon Quest is mostly a Japanese franchise, and Koichi Sugiyama is unknown to most of the western population, let alone his views.

If, say, Nobuo Uematsu had been spending money advertising anti-American, revisionist ads on Washington Post instead of Sugiyama, I think the backlash would have been far greater and there would actually be a pretty big boycott for his games.
 
FateBreaker said:
...This thread is dumb. Why does Card get special attention? Why should I boycott him through this awesome game? Some people hate homosexuality, and he is one of them. One of quite a few. It's dumb that he is like this, but there are many people who poured their heart into this game that, I'm sure, despise Card's beliefs. They deserve my $15. I feel this is just another ol' hypersensitive thread on GAF. Back to Shadow Complex.
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He gets special attention because he seems to have a close relationship with the founders of Chair, the people who created the world the game is set in, and developed the game which is the point of discussion. It's not as simple as hating homosexuality, but the fact that he campaigns against homosexuals and their rights. Now, if he can campaign against them, they can campaign against him. It's all fair right? :P
 
FlyinJ said:
Ban Christian and Muslim studios? No. Ban Christian (Mormon) studios who employ outspoken, hateful homophobic bigots? Yes.
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Specifically, bigots who are at the head of groups involved directly in the restriction of human rights, and donate significant money towards that cause.
 
Aquavelvaman said:
I guess I won't buy this game now. Mostly because I do everything Chris Remo suggests or implies.
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Haha. Just to be clear though, I'm not trying to convince people not to buy this game. Maybe I'll buy it, I don't know. I'm trying to say it's completely justifiable to use this reasoning not to.
 
Kosma said:
Maybe we should all boycott Microsoft and the 360 too because they allowed these homophobes on XBLA?

I mean Microsoft is practically funding an anti gay movement here by allowing these guys to make money.
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Homophobic speech is actually against their terms of service. So the argument is moot. They do have disciplinary systems in place, but most people don't use it.
 
Chris Remo said:
No need to do that. It's pretty easy to be aware of the (extremely few) people who are publicly and vehemently working against principles I support, not some dude who just disagrees in his private life and votes differently to me.
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Actually it's silent majority that was responsible for Prop 8 in CA. Mainly the black and hispanic population. The vocal activists just like the attention. So if you really wanted to make a change, you'd be going after educating or turning those people who have a chance to change vs the hardened homphobe who is salivating at the thought of being able to debate the issue and get more attention, yet again.
 
Asmodai said:
Yeah, because comparing Glenn Beck's personal show to a game made by dozens of developers, one of whom is Orson Scott Card, is a great analogy.:lol Stick to ad hominem next time, your insults aren't very original, but they are better than your non-arguments.

If your boycotts are so incredibly effective, then why, boycotting Shadow Complex should be mega successful! I guess that means it would make Orson Scott Card too poor to post his views on the internet? Is that what the OP was going for?



You don't seem to understand that while a boycott with broad support might make a difference, a boycott with minimal support certainly never will. And the OP's outlining of a boycott is little more than a joke, that's for sure.
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So you are 12. You're saying that Glenn Beck's show is solely the product of one person in order to support your argument? Bravo. When did I say the boycott would be effective? Who gives a shit if it is? Thats missing the point.

I don't give a flying fuck what anybody does with this game, if I had a 360, i'd buy it. That doesn't change the fact that it is still moronic for a bunch of 20-something losers to chastise people for attempting to organize a boycott. You should probably be getting back to your philosophy 101 class, they might teach you about another logical fallacy today that you can put in italics on the internet while making incoherent counter-factuals that fail to actually respond to the point you are trying feebly to address.
 
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