Yeah i'm of the same opinion.
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Silent Hill HD Collection |OT| Programmed in Smoke Signals
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Yeah i'm of the same opinion.
DidntKnowJack
Member
Ok, now I'm back in.
jetsetfluken
Member
edit: Nevermind
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Even Eddie gets nauseated by the new ports :|
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
i like the part where blood is now coming from the teats of the silent hill money cow, and instead of unplugging the suckers, konami is trying to figure out how to sell the blood.
i'm experiencing a strange sense of shock from how poorly this IP has been handled. just wow.
i'm experiencing a strange sense of shock from how poorly this IP has been handled. just wow.
Yeah Shadow of the Colossus controls just fine for me in the HD collection. Looks/runs fine too.
Also success:
Just cut my losses and returned the PS3 version. Now I just need to either find the real SH2 and SH3 cases, or just print them...and i'm never good at printing accurate DVD cases. Really wish this wasnt the case with the HD collection...
You need the Greatest Hits version of Silent Hill 2 PS2 to get the Born From a Wish scenario.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
If I had to guess Hijinx got in way over their heads with this. They've only worked on mobile games and a single DS game (TouchMaster) according to their website. They have no experience with consoles, and I'm really wondering how Konami hired them.
Mr. Enigma
Member
Yeah, the ones in the beginning are completely changed and clean. But after you leave the apartments, they're grungy and unpaved again. When you leave the hospital on the way to the historical society, they're paved and clean again.
Fucking idiots.
kunonabi
Member
I find it to be a complete train wreck. Other people seem less upset about. The new voicework legitimately alters characters and character relationships through new dialogue(minimal but there) and VA making up their own interpretations that fly in the face of how the game was originally written. I'm very defensive of SH3 as it had the most powerful effect on me. Seeing all the excellent work that went in to making that game operate on the levels that it did getting thrown in the garbage is inexcusable to me.
Opinions differ on Douglas. I think he sounds comical in a really bad way. Heather is awful. The game hinges so much on her in her facial expressions, motion capture, and her performance that this new voice has a devastating effect on her character. She just doesn't understand the character at all.
Heather's dad is apparently really lackluster. A new voice ruins the effect anyway.
Not sure if they found a new voice for the nurse or if they just left it out entirely.
Haven't been able to really hear enough of Vincent and Claudia to make a judgment.
Still considering that every other voice is worse aside from Angela I don't have high hopes for them.
Play the original on PS2.
Would that be really worth tracking down the GH for?
cj_iwakura
Member
You could just get the Xbox version. (Of course, you still need the original Xbox, which I kept.)
It's funny how companies get away with full-scale botches like this, but something as comparatively petty as an ending causes a massive uproar.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Nah. Not really. Born from a Wish is good, and the extra ending in SH2 is pretty neat, but it's not really anything you need to have.
Mr. Enigma
Member
Broder Salsa
Banned
Wait their site is working again? Good on them for being able to fix that html. I must however stress that they also worked on Frogger Returns, that is both on ps3 and wii!
Typographenia
Member
Someone get Patrick Klepek on the phone!
I have it on xbox. It's BC on 360. Some tearing and flashlight bug. Definitely enjoyable.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
This reminds me. In SH3,
when you're going to the otherworld hospital and you see a vision of Lisa from SH1,
Typographenia
Member
They got a new voice actress, I believe. They were on less-than-stellar terms around the time, for reasons I can't recall.
I'm wanting to say it was similar to Guy Cihi's demand of royalties, so they opted for a new recording. If memory serves.
edit: I bet it was text only, after all, now that I think about it. I'm almost certain I remember voiceover, but it was probably just me mixing up the games.
Roland Stiles
Member
For anybody curious as to how badly I ruined the script of SH3, here are the lines:
Claudia now says
Because Claudia didn't need to sound like Dr. Nick.
After she
when Heather finds Claudia she says
You're free to disagree.
Claudia now says
"They've come to witness the Beginning. The rebirth of Paradise, unspoiled by mankind." She previously said "Despoiled". However, considering her sentiment is that this new paradise won't have been spoiled (rather than "Paradise must be reborn, as the previous one was spoiled by mankind") I corrected the mistake.
Because Claudia didn't need to sound like Dr. Nick.
After she
finds her father murdered,
"I'll kill you, you bitch!" rather than "I'll get you for this!" because the original line is kind of limp, considering the circumstances. Considering later in the game Heather says she wants to "kill her myself" and calls Claudia a bitch... I didn't think this was out of character - neither did Blaustein.
cj_iwakura
Member
It's nice that you're willing to defend your writing, but I really don't think you need to.
That doesn't seem to be the larger problem at all here, just nitpicks. I'm sure the new script's fine, but I have the original, and I'm sticking with it.
That doesn't seem to be the larger problem at all here, just nitpicks. I'm sure the new script's fine, but I have the original, and I'm sticking with it.
I totally approve of the changes. I have been enjoying it mostly but what's the deal with the severe stuttering issues (mostly the run stutter) in SH2 (I haven't tried SH3 yet)?
Nemesis_
Member
The script is the least of your worries with regards to this HD Collection. =/
Roland Stiles
Member
I'm not defending my writing I'm trying to refute the claim SH3 was "rewritten". 4 words does not a rewrite make, nor does it sacrifice the intent of the characters. I used to work for Atlus - I changed a lot more than 4 words in the localization from Japanese.
Mr Hulett, I respect you, and I somewhat admire you because keeping SH alive must be the best-worst job in the world, but there are many, many, MANY problems with this Collection worse than a few changed lines of dialogue.
And I suspect you know it, and you're sad for it, and that Konami just rushed this thing to death (Downpour too?) My suggestion? Just tell them in the face how harmful this is to their plans, their series and their BUSINESS, who could have faith in SH anymore?? in KONAMI anymore?
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Yeah, those changes are really rather insignificant compared to the other problems the ports suffer from.
Roland Stiles
Member
Tell that to Kuno.
I would if I could, how could I?
Mr. Enigma
Member
I can understand the despoiled/unspoiled argument. I still think it should have been left alone because it's not your game, but I can understand it.
But in regards to the "I'll get you, you bitch," line? Listen: It's NOT your place to make those decisions. You were obligated to port a game you didn't make. Your job is to faithfully recreate the experience and upscale the graphics to 720p (or whatever upscaled 720p resolution because of how weak consoles really are). You were not given a badge to make creative changes to the game. It's. Not. Your. Game. The people that made this game made the decisions to use the words they used and they should be respected. This is not respect.
No one is arguing that it's out of her character. It's the simple fact a creative decision was made to change something that did not need to be changed. It smells of changing it just so you can leave your mark and scream to your buddies, "Hey, look at this part! I changed it and made it better! I improved a Silent Hill game!"
If you can't be trusted to do the job you were assigned to do and leave the game itself alone, then find someone else to do it. Changing something in a classic game that is revered by a lot of people just because you think something would be better is 100% respectful and reckless. And you should know that with these games and the thousands of times they've been played, any one thing that is off about them is going to be magnified.
disappeared
Banned
All fair changes.
But yeah, a few lines of dialogue being altered is the least of this collection's worries.
Roland Stiles
Member
Jeremy Blaustein used the words. Jeremy Blaustein said the change was good.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Sort of related: do you know what Heather said in the original Japanese version of SH3? Was the American dialogue a literal translation, or was it altered?
Mr. Enigma
Member
Help me to understand so we're on the same page. Did Blaustein actually write the words? Because I see he's a translator but he's also listed as the original English VO director.
If Blaustein actually did write the words in the original 2003 game and gave you the okay to change it, then I'll rescind what I'm saying.
But I still don't think anything should have been changed. Nor do I see a reason why anything needed to be changed.
DidntKnowJack
Member
I think you've gone off the deep end. And this is why I take the "THIS IS SHIT!" proclamations on GAF with a grain of salt. You, sir, are nitpicking.
Hey don't be so hard on the man, It's not that we're heartbroke because she didn't say "bitch", I could live with that change (IN an ideal world you should get a new facial animation too...)
The problems with this, and with Downpour, are purely technical, they feel amateur, half assed and rushed, while DP was brilliant past its flaws, it's unfair that it's buried by technical incompetence (It's freaking UE3 FFS!) and related to this Collection, these are 2 games from Early-Mid past generation, and they are missig even shadows, WTF?? Konami, this is not the way to treat your 4th (and last?) most important series, this is MADNESS.
Broder Salsa
Banned
This collection quite clearly is shit though, even without the nitpicking.
cj_iwakura
Member
Blaustein wrote the dialogue for the original games, yes. He no longer works for Konami, which speaks volumes about his intellect. I think he mostly worked in a freelance role before.
Mr. Enigma
Member
I am nitpicking. SH2 and SH3 are two of my favorite games of all time. Of course I'm going to be defensive of them when something isn't right.
If you're not a major fan of SH2 and/or SH3 like I am, don't listen to my opinions. Simple as that.
Typographenia
Member
I fail to comprehend how the two lines he stated he changed would be impressing anyone. It sounds to me like the intent was much more inline with having a more consistent tone or more comprehensible phrasing than changing it for the sake of attaching his name to the project. If you were going to try to "leave your mark" by changing dialogue, I think there are better ways of doing it than what was stated.
edit: I understand your concerns about preserving the integrity of the initial work, but this is far from a Greedo shot first level of change.
Contra and Gradius are still important >
Anyway I have no problem with improving a script at all. I'm just ticked off that the only real visual improvements with the game are the fact that its super sharp now. It just seems crazy that the game is missing so many effects you know? And even though the fog was probably to hide loading in assets in the original games, it really fit the environment...so it just seems strange to make the fog thinner than it should be.
cj_iwakura
Member
If we're going to go that route, in my personal opinion, I think that new line sounds very out of character for Heather. Again, though, it's a mild nitpick.
Roland Stiles
Member
Which is why I'm here responding to you. Contrary to your rant, I DO care about what you think. If I was backpedaling, why would I even be here? Why wouldn't I dismiss this as "crazy Neogaf overreaction!"? It would certainly be easier.
Blaustein was heavily involved w/ the script and plot in SH2 and SH3. The team asked him what themes they could explore and what would be too taboo for an international audience. If there ever was a mythical "team silent" he'd most definitely be in it. I did my due diligence and got his opinion of the changes. Cause the last thing I'd want is for a crazed SH fan to tweet him details of HD Collection (as fans are wont to do) and have him be offended because I screwed something up.
If you hate SH:SM? Hey you got me.
If you think SH
violates series canon and doesn't belong under the SH banner? Blame me all you want.If don't like BoM, go nuts.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Mr. Enigma
Member
Which is why I'm here responding to you. Contrary to your rant, I DO care about what you think. If I was backpedaling, why would I even be here? Why wouldn't I dismiss this as "crazy Neogaf overreaction!"? It would certainly be easier.
Blaustein was heavily involved w/ the script and plot in SH2 and SH3. The team asked him what themes they could explore and what would be too taboo for an international audience. If there ever was a mythical "team silent" he'd most definitely be in it. I did my due diligence and got his opinion of the changes. Cause the last thing I'd want is for a crazed SH fan to tweet him details of HD Collection (as fans are wont to do) and have him be offended because I screwed something up.
If you hate SH:SM? Hey you got me.
If you think SH
If don't like BoM, go nuts.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
That message you quoted was meant for the guy who accused me of nitpicking, not you.
kunonabi
Member
There is change of intent in Heather's conversation with her father on the phone and plenty of it. I can't possibly understand how you can argue with that.
The dialogue at the apartment should be limp. Her anger and rage fall under the weight of her other feelings and this is seen several times as the game goes on. you can see it in the hotel room in SH and you can see it when she confronts Claudia at the end SH3 is not a revenge story and goes much deeper than that. Heather and her Harry have a particular relationship and these changes undercut it. Harry is dead and her rage is going to bring him back and she knows it. She faces Claudia for reasons bigger than herself. Heather is barely holding it together from the point that Harry passes. She doesn't have the energy to be filled with that sort of rage. The whole game is Heather putting on a brave face whether it be for Douglas or to stop the god once again. Heather is broken and empty woman. This is evident in the ending with her last glance before the ending fades out and in Yamaoka's music.
New Heather doesn't really seem to get that. The Claudia fix doesn't bother me but Heather's performance and that one line of dialogue don't really fit to me.
I appreciate your responding but we are going to have to agree to disagree. Your job is damage control and you want to defend your choices which you are perfectly entitled to do. However, as someone who was deeply affected by SH3 growing up I will continue to voice my opinion to those who trying to make a decision. I honestly believe the new voice work harms the original intent of the game.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
I just finished replaying SH:SM (and I still dislike it as much as ever, sorry!), but there are some things I'd like to ask that the game didn't really explain.
- The girl at the brothel who was beaten by a customer, how was she related to the Cheryl/Harry story? And about the boy who had to shoot an animal, how did he relate to it all?
- Was Cheryl the girl at the party in the woods who got her drink spiked?
- I seem to remember there being some vague implications that Cheryl had, at one point, been raped. Was that so, or is it just my mind messing up?
This HD Collection is not going to sit well with right-wing conservatives. From what I've heard, it's an abortion.
But there are guns and you get to shoot things, so I guess they might end up liking it anyway
Probably a bug, I'd say
Mr. Enigma
Member
Roland/Tomm, can you explain to me why the music is removed during James and Mary's final conversation? There is a piece of Akira's music that is supposed to be playing after Mary whispers James' name.
I want to know why that music is gone and instead there is no music behind their conversation. That was seriously what pushed me over the mark in terms of my negative opinions of this collection. I'm on the 360 so I am unaffected by the performance issues PS3 users are experiencing.
But this really bothered me. I'm also curious as to the removal of the airhorns when James is walking down the long hallway between the Historical Society and the prison.
Were these more creative decisions or just oversights?
I want to know why that music is gone and instead there is no music behind their conversation. That was seriously what pushed me over the mark in terms of my negative opinions of this collection. I'm on the 360 so I am unaffected by the performance issues PS3 users are experiencing.
But this really bothered me. I'm also curious as to the removal of the airhorns when James is walking down the long hallway between the Historical Society and the prison.
Were these more creative decisions or just oversights?
Roland Stiles
Member
They were meant to be little mini "sidestories"--echoes of the town that you were picking up on. Maybe they were Cheryl's friends or things she heard about. Similar to mainstream SH games you find a note (in SH2) about Walter Sullivan or whatnot. They relate to the overall themes and mood of the story - but James himself has nothing to do with Walter (other than they both perform a ritual? but that's kind of a retcon).
Like the sidequests in Downpour. Creepy, thematic, not necessarily critical events.
I can see why it would be confusing, since so many of them (pictures in School OTW, shoplifter in mall) can be direcctly pinned to Cheryl. The ones that don't kind of stick out.