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Since When Has American Culture Become So Mediocre and Pathetic? What happened to ABBA, Bowie, The Beatles, PSY, BTS, and other great American bands?

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strange headache

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If something is popular to a large group of people, it's good to them is it not?

By that measure, McDonald's would be the best food in the world. Popular entertainment usually appeals to the lowest common denominator, that doesn't necessarily make it good it just makes it easy to consume.
Lots of people listen to Justin Bieber, that doesn't make it good music. Meth is popular too...

It's not hip to automatically hate on popular things either, but both are certainly not synonym. As your movie and music exports have been commodified, they lose a lot of their cultural significance. Most of it is just consumed only to be discarded shortly after. What really sticks with people has gotten few and far between.
 
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DeafTourette

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By that measure, McDonald's would be the best food in the world. Popular entertainment usually appeals to the lowest common denominator, that doesn't necessarily make it good it just makes it easy to consume.
Lots of people listen to Justin Bieber, that doesn't make it good music. Meth is popular too...

It's not hip to automatically hate on popular things either, but both are certainly not synonym. As your movie and music exports have been commodified, they lose a lot of their cultural significance. Most of it is just consumed only to be discarded shortly after. What really sticks with people has gotten few and far between.

I get what you're saying here. Like EviLore EviLore said... We don't often see what becomes a classic until some years or decades go by.

As far as Kanye West goes, his College Dropout and Late Registration albums are considered classics and FAR superior to his current (within the last 10 years)... Some movies in the last 10 years have been called classics like Moon or the first The Conjuring movie ...

A lot of what comes out these days... Not the best. But can be enjoyable. Most of it we won't know if they're classics until decades later. We don't know it while we're living through it when it comes out.
 

sol_bad

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Are you going to make 20 posts arguing about McDonald's now.

We get it. You disagree

So you're saying if a large group of people like something they like it because it's shit?

And McDonald's does taste nice, not the greatest food ever but if it tasted like shit they would have gone out of business.
 

oagboghi2

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So you're saying if a large group of people like something they like it because it's shit?

And McDonald's does taste nice, not the greatest food ever but if it tasted like shit they would have gone out of business.
I’m saying that just because a large group of people choose something doesn’t make it “good”.
 

sol_bad

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I’m saying that just because a large group of people choose something doesn’t make it “good”.

It's good to the group of people that like it, not you. Your opinion doesn't invalidate someone else's opinion of something.

No, because it's easy to consume.

Yes, people love to spend money on food they hate. Of course it's easy to consume, but it's gotta do something for your taste buds to spend the money on it.
 
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strange headache

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Yes, people love to spend money on food they hate. Of course it's easy to consume, but it's gotta do something for your taste buds to spend the money on it.

It's easy to appeal to your monkey brain and to your senses. Taste is not given, it is acquired and takes practice. The best things in life are never easy to consume, they challenge you. It's the sense of accomplishment that makes these pleasures worthwhile. Most poeple don't want to be challenged, they just want to turn off their brains and feel pleasure.

Pop music is easy to consume, that's why it is much more ubiquitous than classical music for example. Still, you could never argue that classical music is artistically inferior to easy to produce pop. 4 chords is all it takes:



The same goes for fast food. Put enough sugar, salt and fat into a food item and your body will like it because it's designed to love calorie dense food. That doesn't make it good food though. Marvel movies have become the equivalent to McDonald's. They provide pleasure, but they are easy to consume thus easy to forget and don't challenge you in the slightest.
 
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strange headache

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Looks like Grandpa got out the wrong side of bed again.

Ah yes that must be some of that sweet positivity that this forum so desperately needs contrary to my "bitterness". You've contributed nothing so far, good job.
Now go change your Sonic avatar another 7 times, it's not quite there yet.
 
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MrFancypants

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Ah yes that must be some of that sweet positivity that this forum so desperately needs contrary to my "bitterness". You've contributed nothing so far, good job. Now go change your Sonic avatar another 7 times, maybe that will make you look cooler.
I am the epitome of positivity, sir, and I challenge you to prove me wrong. I think you’ll find the task impossible.

And it’s sweet that you noticed my avatar change, but you’re mistaken on the count. I changed it to Sonic last night, then I remember how vastly superior I am so changed it to Super Sonic. One does wonder why you care so much about it, but…well, I’m pretty fucking awesome, so it’s understandable.
 

Kimahri

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I am the epitome of positivity, sir, and I challenge you to prove me wrong. I think you’ll find the task impossible.

And it’s sweet that you noticed my avatar change, but you’re mistaken on the count. I changed it to Sonic last night, then I remember how vastly superior I am so changed it to Super Sonic. One does wonder why you care so much about it, but…well, I’m pretty fucking awesome, so it’s understandable.
I'd just like to let you know that every time you say something, you make whoever you're talking to sound like a genius.
 
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strange headache

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I am the epitome of positivity, sir, and I challenge you to prove me wrong. I think you’ll find the task impossible.

And it’s sweet that you noticed my avatar change, but you’re mistaken on the count. I changed it to Sonic last night, then I remember how vastly superior I am so changed it to Super Sonic. One does wonder why you care so much about it, but…well, I’m pretty fucking awesome, so it’s understandable.

You've got issues...
 

darrylgorn

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We're human and we have a finite number of ideas. When it comes to media and culture, we exhausted most of those ideas by the mid 90s.
 
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strange headache

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Another article mentioned songs moved from orchestral complexity and benefited not only from recording but ease of imitation helping solidify commodification from community roots.

Not so simple and more varied in a wider field of view.

Reminds me of Roger Scruton's tyranny of pop music:


Music has become banale, mere background noise to fill the void because people have become afraid of silence:

Background music is the default position. It is no longer silence to which we return when we cease to speak, but the empty chatter of the music-box. Silence must be excluded at all cost, since it awakens you to the emptiness that looms on the edge of modern life, threatening to confront you with the dreadful truth, that you have nothing whatever to say. On the other hand, if we knew silence for what once it was, as the plastic material that is shaped by real music, then it would not frighten us at all.

I don't think we should underestimate the tyranny exerted over the human brain by pop. The constant repetition of musical platitudes, at every moment of the day and night, leads to addiction. It also has a dampening effect on conversation. I suspect that the increasing inarticulateness of the young, their inability to complete their sentences, to find telling phrases or images, or to say anything at all without calling upon the word "like" to help them out, has something to do with the fact that their ears are constantly stuffed with cotton wool. Round and round in their heads go the chord progressions, the empty lyrics and the impoverished fragments of tune, and boom goes the brain box at the start of every bar.

But hey what does Scruton know, just another "bitter" grandpa who got out the wrong side of bed, amirite?
 
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Kimahri

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We're human and we have a finite number of ideas. When it comes to media and culture, we exhausted most of those ideas by the mid 90s.
This is very true, and I think it's a shame everyone including the commander in chief just pile on the juvenile ridicule of OP. He has a point. Things have cganged, and there is a big reason why so much of what is coming out todays is just regurgitated crap, reboots, bands ripping off earlier bands.

I can't remember the last time I experienced something that I felt was unlike anything I'd experienced before.

The US was never alone in being a creative and original force, but so much comes from the US, and it used to be inspirational and fresh, now it's all been done before.

I think it's a combo of what you said, and money talks. Nobody puts big money into risky new stuff like they did ik the past.
 

strange headache

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This is very true, and I think it's a shame everyone including the commander in chief just pile on the juvenile ridicule of OP. He has a point. Things have cganged, and there is a big reason why so much of what is coming out todays is just regurgitated crap, reboots, bands ripping off earlier bands.

This! We can't be the only ones noticing the rising numbers of sequels and remakes that Hollywood is putting out. The evolution is staggering:



Den of Geek counted over 140 sequels in 2018 as Hollywood execs churn out sequel after sequel much to the dislike of many movie goers. In 2017 they released 43 sequels and remakes:

2017 has been a record year for the seemingly endless number of Hollywood sequels, reboots and remakes coming out. By the end of the year, Hollywood will have released 43 movies in one of these categories. These kinds of movies, while not very original, are thought to be safe bet cash cows for Hollywood studios. But, they are also lamented by Hollywood’s insiders who prophesize that these big budget movies will implode the industry once a majority of them start fail. With movie theatres being flooded with sequels, reboots and remakes, it seems that the US movie industry is either heading towards implosion or disruption.

One of the ubiquitous trends in Hollywood is the focus on pure exploitation films (sequels, remakes and reboots). Movies such as Star Wars 8, Transformers: The Last Knight, and The Avengers: Age of Ultron – and now there’s even talk of Top Gun 2! – can be considered examples of films that are based on a pure exploitation strategy. These are films that have established market bases and story lines. Therefore, production firms prosper by doing incremental development of story lines and characters in order to bring new films to the market.

The numbers behind pure exploitation films are mind-boggling; for example, Iron Man 3 grossed $1.2 billion, Star Wars 7 grossed $2 billion and the Avengers grossed $1.4 billion. To date, 41 of the 50 highest grossing movies of all time is either a sequel, reboot or remake. Of the 29 films that have grossed over $1 billion, 23 of them are sequels, remakes or reboots. This year, analysts report that 7 movies could potentially break the billion dollar mark: Beauty and the Beast (remake) Fast and Furious 8, Guardians of the Galaxy 2, Pirates of the Caribbean (5th film), Transformers (5th film), Despicable Me 3, and Star Wars 8.

Hollywood’s love for following a pure exploitation strategy can be seen it its sky-high and rising budgets. The industry is spending more and more money on sequels and now they even have higher budgets (product and marketing) than the original films from which they’re spawned. As an example of the way sequels used to get made, in the 1970s and 80s, the first Superman movie had a total budget of $55 million and Superman IV had a budget of $17 million. Fast forward to the new way of operating, and the first Fast and Furious had a budget of $38 million. The 7th and 8th instalments have had a budget of over $190 million. And Number 9 is in the works.

Sure, classics crystallize over time, but you don't even have a chance at becoming a classic if you just keep rehashing the same old thing!
 
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Reminds me of Roger Scruton's tyranny of pop music:


Music has become banale, mere background noise to fill the void because people have become afraid of silence:



But hey what does Scruton know, just another "bitter" grandpa who got out the wrong side of bed, amirite?
Banal is an opinion and a poor generalization regarding all pop music with an incorrect assumption on why people enjoy music in general. Although, what you assume of others does open up maybe why you don't like pop music. "Keep that banal racket down all you kids!"
A not uncommon opinion voiced in all decades against popular trends in music. From the roaring 20s to now and into the future undoubtedly,.

People listen to music for a variety of reasons. Most often to bring out joy on a blank canvas, tedium or celebration from a neutral state, not to obfuscate a fear of silence in the general population(a strange assumption to make, but can see it working for anxiety in those cases.). It's easy to recognize, as I'm sure you understand, music(popular or otherwise) wouldn't always benefit and some would prefer silence for their anxiety, and that is understandable.

It's difficult to recognize the implied meanings in the language of subculture music that goes mainstream.
 
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strange headache

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Banal is an opinion and a poor generalization regarding all pop music with an incorrect assumption on why people enjoy music in general. Although, what you assume of others does open up maybe why you don't like pop music. "Keep that banal racket down all you kids!"
A not uncommon opinion voiced in all decades against popular trends in music. From the roaring 20s to now and into the future undoubtedly,.

I love music and I enjoy a vast range of it, so I don't think my criticism is of a particular style. I'm not like the ones railing against rock in the past because they found it offensive. There used to be an artistic talent behind music, that is severely lacking nowadays. You cannot tell me that auto-tune had a positive impact on the quality of music. Now people can make music without having the talent since their robotic voices are generated by computers. That's a whole different approach to making music than before.

Even lyrics have gone to waste as vocabulary and allegoric speech are dwindling fast. Like, compare this:


To this:


Notice the difference? Both are essentially about the same thing, but one does so with lyrical finesse, the other one just wants to be shrill. I'd rather be shown around your fruit-cage than having your WAP rubbed in my face.

People listen to music for a variety of reasons. Most often to bring out joy on a blank canvas, tedium or celebration from a neutral state, not to obfuscate a fear of silence in the general population(a strange assumption to make, but can see it working for anxiety in those cases.). It's easy to recognize, as I'm sure you understand, music(popular or otherwise) wouldn't always benefit and some would prefer silence for their anxiety, and that is understandable.

Of course music is used to get you in a mood, but that's not what Scruton's observation is about.

Ever been to a pub before? Loud music is blaring so that people don't have to talk to each other anymore. People have become afraid of silence. Ever had that awkward feeling when you met somebody and just didn't have anything to say? Well it shouldn't feel awkward, but in our hyper-stimulating society lack of sensory stimulus is seen as a negative.

Gone are the time when you could hear the ticking of a clock in people's homes. TV and radio are constantly blaring in the background, because silence has become too insufferable.
 

strange headache

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Was hoping you had and would reply to it as well. :)

Well here is your initial reply:

The overuse of any particular device or gimmick can be annoying. Autotune is one of them for me too.

Light use like Cher was ok. What it's come to is way much imo too, but like other trends it'll fade.

Although...I have to admit I don't mind some bands

Which makes me wonder how much is personal taste. BUT I can only take MIAB in small doses.


When it comes to the current highwater mark of American songwriting it seems to be on the folk side of pop.

Not exactly pub music though.

It was always noisy shit and yelling in each others ears.

Think from the advent of tv radio there has been a tendency of wanting those on not to miss something. It was discouraged in a lot of homes, but not a majority in the past I'd guess. It's hard to say though. Today some families really push for unplugging at night now due to how plugged in things have gotten. Maybe if it gets more common it will have downstream effects on consumption, but that doesn't make money for people. sooo....

Unfortunately I can't find the harp song, but it was beautiful.

Like anything really, auto-tune can become an artistic component. Kraftwerk used robotic voices in the past to match their industrial synth sound to great effect:


The MIAB track kinda reminded me of that, but in this case auto-tune is not used to compensate for lack of talent or as a convenience.

I very much appreciated the folklorish song. Folklore has progressed too as there are some really interesting groups that seem like a continuation of the same roots. Dead Can Dance would be such an example:


The singer doesn't really sing in a particular language, she uses her voice more like an instrument. Also the lots of oriental influences and sounding very folklorish still.

I think yelling in each others ears only lead to an escalation of shrillness. You really need to be f*cking far out there to still be heard, or pushed like crazy by corporate media. It's all just a matter of repetition and airing a song often enough. Don't get me wrong, there are still brilliant musicians around. Aphex Twin for example, who does the "far out there" stuff with artistic merit, dude can go from this:



To f*cking this:



Absolutely genius!

It's just that popular music is in an arms race to become louder, more sexualized and more obnoxious only to be hammered into people's lizard brains. It's not a healthy approach, for sure.
 
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It's just that popular music is in an arms race to become louder, more sexualized and more obnoxious only to be hammered into people's lizard brains. It's not a healthy approach, for sure.

The increasing sexualization brings questions. There's more access to sexual content then ever before. Long gone are the days of scrounging for anything and imagination. The genie is out of the bottle.

There's definitely a parallel with technology music and sex.

From Elvis the Pelvis through Samantha Fox to whatever is going on now. WAP, while listened to by all ages, is Millennial music. Gen Z is just starting to get traction, indications of their pop music is starting to coalesce with the likes of Billie Eilish and Olivia Rodrigo. More emotional tones and deeper themes. Can see the guidance the second gets from Taylor Swift, but that is part of handing off the torch.

Could be some of the sexualization in current pop is a result of international influence. There's places way more sexual than US.
And artists/business taking from those cultures what can be commercialized and packaged as new or used to push new boundaries, stake a claim and open a new franchise. Sex sells. In the bigger picture it might be more what is healthy for the economy as long as it's legal.
 
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TheInfamousKira

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"IT'S NOT ABOUT MUSIC,"

*proceeds to talk entirely about music*

It's the evolution of what's popular, my dude. Times change. What people enjoy, what's popular, what makes money, it all changes. Relatability. Young people want to feel like part of the in crowd. When young people start making music, and other young people like it, then it creates a trend. You like it or you're different. This goes on until the market is over saturated and someone takes a risk and does something new. The new thing sounds different and cool and becomes popular. Like I said before, this isn't a sign that MAH AMERICAN VALUESSS are going downhill, it's a sign that we're getting older and are no longer the one's being marketed to.

Your posts make you sound like you're not an American, which makes me question why you're so hung up on our culture in the first place, but I can guarantee you that even thirty years ago, people held the same opinion that you do now, just with different nouns. "In my day, we weren't listening to the Britney Spears and the Tupac and the Third Eye Blind. Music has gone way downhill! The Blair Witch Project isn't even shot professionally, our movies suck, too!"

But even back then, it just required some nuance and work on *your* part to find the things that correlate to your preferred niche. For my personal tastes, HEALTH, Nine Inch Nails, Reggie Snow, a lot of stuff Mike Shinoda is doing, the Deftones, etc. are ALL great, but if you pretend the top forty is all that exists, than, like always, you're going to get the most basic, watered down "McDonalds," products, to borrow your metaphor, that exist.

I'm not even ribbing you here, there's a LOT of cool media out put, you just need to know where to look for it.
 

TheInfamousKira

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I invite you all to compare Raistandantulus Raistandantulus posts to TheInfamousKira TheInfamousKira and MrFancypants MrFancypants That's the difference between having a good conversation and triggered sh*tposting because you don't agree with something.
It's really not hard to understand why I appreciate the one, but not the other, no matter what side you stand on this.

If you thought my last post was shit posting, I don't know what to say other than you just don't like that I have an alternate take to your conclusion. That was me trying to engage with you on your terms.
 

strange headache

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If you thought my last post was shit posting, I don't know what to say other than you just don't like that I have an alternate take to your conclusion. That was me trying to engage with you on your terms.

No that was you not even bothering reading the previous comments where most of your snarky remarks have been addressed already. You didn't even notice how the conversation switched from movie remakes to music. Instead you opened up with an idiotic "it's all about music" jab.
So don't give me that crap about trying to engage with me.
 
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TheInfamousKira

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No that was you not even bothering reading the previous comments where most of your snarky remarks have been addressed already. You didn't even notice how the conversation switched from movie remakes to music. Instead you opened up with an idiotic "it's all about music" jab.
So don't give me that crap about trying to engage with me.

Oh, I noticed, dude. I have a better working knowledge of music than cinema so I chose to engage you on something I knew more about. I'm snarky by nature, it's my shtick, no offense intended.
 
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strange headache

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Oh, I noticed, dude. I have a better working knowledge of music than cinema so I chose to engage you on something I knew more about.

Then why are you complaining that the discussion has turned to music? The previous poster posted a good article about music so I obliged (and yes contrary to you I've actually read that stuff).
I've posted quite a few sources now on the US cannibalizing its own cultural icons for financial gain. So quite obviously this is more than just "old man yelling at clouds" stuff. We've gone through this already.

Sure there's still some cool stuff out there, but it's mostly niche. My issue is with mainstream entertainment dropping down in quality and innovation compared to what came before. Does it still entertain, sure. Does it lack any deeper merit? For sure also!
Maybe it is a sign of me getting older and reaching a point where I've all seen it before. So what? Do we not get the right to talk about what we enjoy and what we don't enjoy?

The only ones who are spreading bitterness in this thread are you guys acting all outraged because somebody is not satisfied with America's current cultural output. Don't take it so frikkin' personally. As if those billion dollar companies would need your unconditional support, or have you been this much conditioned to defend them at all costs?

You accuse me of ignoring the good stuff, well then take this thread as an opportunity to share it with us. I've already given a few examples, go ahead and share some of that musical knowledge with us.

I'd be gone yesterday if I could. Miserable place. (Texas not the US in general)

Now now my friend, who is being "bitter" here?
 
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TheInfamousKira

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Then why are you complaining that the discussion has turned to music? The previous poster posted a good article about music so I obliged.
I've posted quite a few sources now on the US cannibalizing its own cultural icons for financial gain. So quite obviously this is more than just "old man yelling at clouds" stuff. We've gone through this already.

Sure there's still some cool stuff out there, but it's mostly niche. My issue is with mainstream entertainment dropping down in quality and innovation compared to what came before. Does it still entertain, sure. Does it lack any deeper merit? For sure also!
Maybe it is a sign of me getting older and reaching a point where I've all seen it before. So what? Do we not get the right to talk about what we enjoy and what we don't enjoy?

The only ones who are spreading bitterness in this thread are you guys acting all outraged because somebody is not satisfied with America's current cultural output. Don't take it so frikkin' personally. As if those billion dollar companies would need your unconditional support, or have you been this much conditioned to defend them at all costs?

You accuse me of ignoring the good stuff, well then take this thread as an opportunity to share it with us. I've already given a few examples, go ahead and share some of that musical knowledge with us.

I'm not saying you don't recognize that there's good things in the niche areas, but I'm pointing out, similar to what Evilore said earlier, that it's basically always been this way. The best, most thought provoking or fulfilling pieces of media have always been on the periphery. There are exceptions to the rule, but they are rare and always require an understanding of what makes things accessible in the first place to make them work. This is why and how things get curated over the decades. Friends is still a household name, but it wasn't the only sitcom in the 90's. It's just that the competition petered out and didn't have the chops to stand up with it. The same will happen to today's pop culture thirty years from now. I'm saying you're fretting, but in 2060, no one is going to remember American music for "you're such a fucking hoe, I love it,"

I am curious, what types of music/movies/literature are you into? What passes your bar for worthwhile content. We can both agree on the things we *don't* like. That is to say, don't think that me having a different opinion than you means that I starkly defend what's considered popular today. By and large, I think most of it is terrible, it just doesn't phase me.
 
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strange headache

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I'm not saying you don't recognize that there's good things in the niche areas, but I'm pointing out, similar to what Evilore said earlier, that it's basically always been this way. The best, most thought provoking or fulfilling pieces of media have always been on the periphery. There are exceptions to the rule, but they are rare and always require an understanding of what makes things accessible in the first place to make them work. This is why and how things get curated over the decades. Friends is still a household name, but it wasn't the only sitcom in the 90's. It's just that the competition petered out and didn't have the chops to stand up with it. The same will happen to today's pop culture thirty years from now. I'm saying you're fretting, but in 2060, no one is going to remember American music for "you're such a fucking hoe, I love it,"

Sure, that's certainly one part of the equation but it's not all of it. I've already asked this before but got no answer:

How can America create new classics if it's industry is mostly rehashing the same old content?

I find it weird that so many classics were actually part of the charts back in the days. So I don't think the argument that the truly good stuff is mostly peripherical holds any water. What I'm saying it that not everything gat be reduced to "you're only getting old" or "classics get curated over decades". Entertainment becoming more prolific, easier to produce and a bigger market certainly plays a role in this too.

Maybe movies like Indiana Jones stuck with people because there were fewer movies to compete with so they had more mind space? Maybe churning out more and more products is a sign of a downwards spiral? Like there is so much more to this and just easy dismissal and ridicule, which is why I find that needless hostility so frikkin' bothersome.
 

ManaByte

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How can America create new classics if it's industry is mostly rehashing the same old content?

Things take years, sometimes decades, to be considered "classics", as EviLore EviLore explained earlier in the thread.

The Empire Strikes Back was trashed almost as badly in 1980 as The Last Jedi is today, but now everyone says it's the best Star Wars movie.

40 years later everyone remembers The Empire Strikes back, but no one remembers other 80s sci-fi movies like Alien Dead, Galaxina, or Death Watch. If you look more modern to something like 1998 a movie like Armageddon or The Big Lebowski can be consider a "classic" now while stuff like Phantoms or Soldier (a BLADE RUNNER spin off) are more forgotten.

Like EviLore EviLore says, it takes time for the shit movies to be forgotten and the better movies to be considered classics.
 
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TheInfamousKira

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Sure, that's certainly one part of the equation but it's not all of it. I've already asked this before but got no answer:

How can America create new classics if it's industry is mostly rehashing the same old content?

I find it weird that so many classics were actually part of the charts back in the days. So I don't think the argument that the truly good stuff is mostly peripherical holds any water. What I'm saying it that not everything gat be reduced to "you're only getting old" or "classics get curated over decades". Entertainment becoming more prolific, easier to produce and a bigger market certainly plays a role in this too.

Maybe movies like Indiana Jones stuck with people because there were fewer movies to compete with so they had more mind space? Maybe churning out more and more products is a sign of a downwards spiral? Like there is so much more to this and just easy dismissal and ridicule, which is why I find that needless hostility so frikkin' bothersome.

For sure, I get that. It's a nuanced topic, too. Yes, the over saturation of products and the means to promote them does have a negative effect on creativity. I'd also say in areas like gaming, the cost of producing a product leads to a decline in visionary freedom, because diminishing returns is a very real threat. Companies don't want products that go against the grain, because the potential that it won't be a hit could negatively impact the bottom line. That's just the way media seems to work, though. Something becomes popular, and gets copied until it's no longer profitable, and people move on to the next thing that has a small amount of ambition behind it, repeating, ad nauseum.

That's why I say in a lot of cases you do have to look to the periphery to find things that worthy of your time. Good things pass under the radar into mainstream, but it takes a level of cunning and understanding of trends and market so great that it may as well be magic. It's rare. The Dark Knight was a stark, cerebral, dark, downer ending character study with great thematic work throughout, for instance, but would any of that had been recognized were it not for it's placement in the Batman universe? Another example is my absolute favorite artist, Trent Reznor. He's released two EPs, three albums and several collaborations under the name Nine Inch Nails since 2017, but the wealth of his recognized work of late comes from scoring films with Atticus Ross. He was a producer on Halsey's new album, and youtube comments from normies are all "this is so dark, the instrumentation is so good, she's really matured as an artist," It's become increasingly difficult for material of substance to keep it's head above the water without using tricks, but subconsciously, people want innovation. The Lil Nas X song that blew up, Old Town Road. People lost their shit over that, but most don't realize that the instrumental is a cut and looped sample of 34 Ghosts IV, a Nine Inch Nails song.

And that's to say nothing of the actual skill it requires to make simple, catchy music. It doesn't require an in depth knowledge of music theory, granted, but it takes a lot of where with it all to analyze and predict trends and what have you.

I *do* think part of the problem is we're getting old, but I also respect and subscribe to some of the things you've brought up, too. On a last note, I really wasn't aiming to be hostile, perse, sarcasm just adds a flavor to my writing. You're welcome to your opinions as is anyone else, and it's an interesting discussion.
 
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