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Since When Has American Culture Become So Mediocre and Pathetic? What happened to ABBA, Bowie, The Beatles, PSY, BTS, and other great American bands?

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raduque

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Its called globalization and is transforming most of west countries. Corporations with the help of media companies are leading this cruzade. Nothing is forever...

I despise globalism and globalists.
 

AmuroChan

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Allow me to preface this post with an insult: I hate hyperbole.

That said, the American dream and inspiration to the world is not "on the way out" ... If anything, the reputation of America is just as solid as it's been for the last 120 years. People still want to emigrate here. Our movies are seen all over the world where many get impressive box office. Our music is played and copied all over the world.

HOW is our culture on a down swing when everything about it is copied and lauded ?

Downswing doesn't necessary mean it's become the worst thing ever. It could still be desired and copied because in general it's still better than the alternative. I would say however that certain aspects of American culture these days do get criticized or made fun of moreso when compared to the past. From the Asian community perspective, we definitely think American culture has had a negative impact on the education system. The standards have not gotten better and there's also a lot of nonsense being taught at schools these days. I'm seeing that firsthand now with my own kids, and it's definitely a topic of much conversation among the parents.
 
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Tschumi

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US Culture is a bit of a misnomer :p

They're the same as they've ever been, but their political system has been broken by social media and it's fractured them beyond all coherence.

Consistent partisan* political pressure against investment in improved education standards, schools or teaching has resulted in poorly educated voters who are easy to sway one way or the other, meaning politics is no longer about making sense so much as corralling the bigger share of the masses.

The upshot is all the positive factors of US culture - entertainment, basically, but also historical i guess - are now tertiary to negativity and infighting, so their exported culture is pretty uninspiring. Then again, compared to them certain other 'western democracies' are simply blank voids on the global cultural landscape.
 
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sol_bad

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It is beyond infuriating how social media, particularly twitter, has become the ultimate "barometer" of culture and opinion for the West. It's the thing that even all the big corporations seem to turn to and gauge what they think the overall public wants from that.

When I'm pretty sure enough studies have been done on twitter to show it's mostly bots and paid/bought metrics, and is wholly divorced from normal everyday life.

It's not though, Twitter loved the shit out of Snyder's Justice League but it's never getting a sequel and Snyder is never returning. At least for the foreseeable future. Profit is always going to dictate what corporations are going to spend money on.
 

haxan7

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Consistent conservative political pressure against investment in improved education standards, schools or teaching has resulted in poorly educated voters who are easy to sway one way or the other, meaning politics is no longer about making sense so much as corralling the bigger share of the masses.
I'm pretty sure you got your political aisles reversed there.
 

VAVA Mk2

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Everyone has to feel special and accepted now because the generation that grew up in the 80s who now run everything in middle to upper management had parents that coddled them.

Lost a baseball game? It's OK! Everyone gets ice cream and a participation trophy! Wasn't valedictorian? It's all good! Everyone gets a superlative to feel better about themselves announced at graduation!

Shielding this generation from hardship and not always coming in first created the mind set that has led to a pussified culture.
 
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DeafTourette

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Downswing doesn't necessary mean it's become the worst thing ever. It could still be desired and copied because in general it's still better than the alternative. I would say however that certain aspects of American culture these days do get criticized or made fun of moreso when compared to the past. From the Asian community perspective, we definitely think American culture has had a negative impact on the education system. The standards have not gotten better and there's also a lot of nonsense being taught at schools these days. I'm seeing that firsthand now with my own kids, and it's definitely a topic of much conversation among the parents.

Agreed! While many aspects of our culture are lauded and copied the world over, there's a lot about the country that can improve. Our education system, per your example. Unlike those whom encourage romanticism of the country as if it's perfect, the founding fathers wrote into the constitution that we are to always strive to be more perfect ... To chase that ideal just as Christians are supposed to chase the ideal of Jesus Christ. Unfortunately, increasingly we, as a nation, choose not to.

I love it here, but that doesn't mean I'm supposed to just accept everything as is. None of us are.
 

GymWolf

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Who is elevating mental illness?
Oh i dont know...


Maybe the deer guy who is part of the twitch council?


The influencers who want to become korean


Etc. Etc.

This people would be forcibly closed in a loony bin if we were like 50 years ago, instead, they are followed by millions of people.

We are literally enabling and celebrating mental illness.

Let's not even talk about celebrating healty obesity with stuff like fucking lizzo...
 
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NeoIkaruGAF

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Exactly!
You're merely proving my point.
This doesn’t exactly prove your point. There’s so much choice, so many timekillers, so much consumption stuff made today, people are not supposed to look at a ”cultural” product twice and think “wow, this is one for the ages”. Stuff like the original SW trilogy is a mainstay of pop culture because the previous generation(s) established it as such, and its producers saw there’s enough money to be made from it that they deemed it profitable to keep it in the spotlight. Star Wars wouldn’t be the thing it still manages to be today, were it not for hardcore fans whose nerdiness is way past expiration date.

And the world moves so fast now, everyone’s always chasing the new thing, more than ever. “Culture” today is fragmented, parcelized; not a thing for masses or nations, but for smaller groups interspersed among so many others. There’s so much stuff, you‘ll be hard-pressed to find someone who sees, reads, listens to, or does the same stuff as you IRL. So you have to go to the internet to find people who share your interests, and that’s how small communities form around cultural products. Only the biggest stuff (say, the MCU) manages to get heads and shoulders above the rest due to the sheer force of money and PR, so what we could still call popular “culture” is basically manifactured today. It’s being chosen for all, no matter what you like. If you want to share some piece of culture with most people you meet in your daily life, it’s the MCU or Breaking Bad or bust. Otherwise, off to some more or less obscure corner of the internet you go to share your interests. But this won’t create a real bond between you and those other faceless people beyond the screen. This is not mass culture, this is not mass identity. This is just the delusion of not being alone that your brain needs.

When people are divided, it’s impossible to create a strong, shared culture that others will want to imitate and take inspiration from. That’s why in my country, Italy, every effort to create a common culture failed until it was first imposed by force (with fascism) and then with a tool people simply couldn’t ignore, stronger than any Divine Comedy, national pride or popular myth - TV.


TLDR: there’s too much offer. You can’t see, read, listen to, do everything. Today’s and tomorrow’s big thing is probably completely manufactured and focus group tested, and it’s made not to create culture, but to make he most money it can in the couple months before it gets replaced. Nothing is important, nothing is meant to last. Like someone said, this is what it means to create context.
 

Lupingosei

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They started listening to the biggest imbeciles they found. This is not about minorities; it is about the minorities in the minorities.

They found even within those small groups the most stupid people and because they were the loudest and the most obnoxious, they thought everybody thinks like them.

Or basically this happend:






edit: typos
 
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i think the USA has peaked or damn about close to. they are still a superpower of course and a force to be reckoned with but i think this is about as good as it's gonna get for them. in 10-20 years i think they won't be top dog anymore. China/India are likely the ones that will topple the USA by 2040/2050. The USA will still be a powerful country but the inevitable is about to happen. Just like the British Empire and many others they will gradually decline over the next 50-100 years. That's if human civilization hasn't entirely collapsed by 2070-2120.
 

Toots

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True, but it had to rhyme with Zappa :messenger_grinning_sweat:
Should have mentioned Bowie, Freddie, BB King, Joplin, Hooker, Waters, Hendrix, Lynyrd Skynyrd and all that other good stuff.

Although I'd say your disco culture made them great and known to the world.

Dude aren't you parisian? How can you say stuff like that?!

🤓 Lesson time 🤓

Bowie was british, and a kiddie didler as famous brits tend to be.
Disco was invented by the french with the help of some scrawny looking italians we let in.
Modern democracy was invented by the french too. French drafted the US declaration of independence. French generals made war against the brits winnable.
Americans had so much more fun with french just look at the culture in New Orleans.
The brits might consider themselves the father of the americans, but do a dna test and you'll see who's the real father. We just didn't stay, we got up and left like the cool indiana jones adventuring type we are. That was a huge mistake, we let the ugly bitter british step dad to raise you. We let you down America and for this i m sorry.

The USA were good as long as they had a connexion with their latin roots. The more the british mindset predominate, the uglier it gets.

French Latin USA :


British soulless corporate USA :


I base this demonstration on nothing, and cannot prove any assertion i made nor will i ever be able to.

(i know Mohini Dey is indian, i don't care)
 

strange headache

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That said, the American dream and inspiration to the world is not "on the way out" ... If anything, the reputation of America is just as solid as it's been for the last 120 years. People still want to emigrate here. Our movies are seen all over the world where many get impressive box office. Our music is played and copied all over the world.

Talking about delusion. Exporting entertainment products is not the same as producing cultural icons.

  • Intellectually, the US has not much on offer as everything has been replaced by identity, gender and race.
  • Your movies have become remakes of the classics, desperately trying to recapture the same old spirit. Your most prominent exports are superhero movies, cannibalizing on the same old stories that have been told on colored paper before. Already people are growing tired of it.
  • Your lifestyle used to inspire whole nations, now people are turning their nose at your spoiled narcissistic snowflakes.
  • Made in the US used to mean something, as you produced almost everything. Nowadays your factories are silent and your cities are crumbling. Now it's all made in China.
  • Your media has become f*cking bitter as one half of the population absolutely despises the other half.
  • Your music has degraded into computer generated noise that merely serves as a pretext to sell naked bodies.
  • America's XXL mentality has switched from portion size to body cult as tits and asses need to grow bigger and more disgusting.
  • Your inspiring architecture has all but vanished as everything is replaced with functional construction.
  • Your own youth hates your country, has no respect for the elder anymore and is only interested in its personal gain.
  • Award shows that should promote excellency are putting ideology over merit.
  • Hollywood stars are failing to inspire as their are turning on their own audiences from their ivory towers and golden palaces.
  • Your literature is more concerned with ticking the right boxes instead of decent storytelling.
  • Your culture is turning into a culture of fear as the court of public opinion rules supreme.
  • You've hollowed out your definition of freedom to the point of being a farce. You used to firmly stand behind this ideal, warts and all, but not anymore.
  • Your entertainment products used to be a f*cking labor of love as countless artists poured their souls into their craft. Now it's reduced to profit and greed.
  • Your once great presidents have turned into apes as your country celebrates anti-intellectualism and getting fat.
  • You country, a wonderful melting pot of different cultures and a marketplace of ideas is killing itself with notions of cultural appropriation where everybody needs to stay in his lane.

So where are your mighty icons? You seriously going to compare a Cardi B to a Bob Dylan, a Kanye West to a Neil Young, a 6ix9ine to a Coltrane or a Billie Eilish to an Aretha Franklin? Where are your Spielbergs, your Kubricks, your Hoppers, Pollocks and Warhols? Where your Martin Luther Kings, your John F Kennedys, your Lincolns, your John Rawls, your Thoreaus? It's all a desert of mediocrity now, resting on the laurels of a once great past.

As American culture is going down the shitter, so the world takes a turn for the worse.
 
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Clear

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Can we even discuss this without making it political?

Not really, no.

Although pegging the decline of the Anglosphere to a particular strain of politics would be incorrect. The problem is our entire political class is corrupt, incompetent, ineffectual and has been for the last 20 years.
 
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Sounds like non-Americans are very concerned about Americans having more influence in their countries and are providing clearly objective perspective on what they want Americans to make.
 

GymWolf

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Not really, no.

Although pegging the decline of the Anglosphere to a particular strain of politics would be incorrect. The problem is our entire political class is corrupt, incompetent, ineffectual and has been for the last 20 years.
We need a t-shirt with that, you can basically sell it all around the world.
 

Relativ9

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It's less an American issue and more a western issue in general. As the world wars finally receded and the west settled into relative peace at home (though proxy and foreign wars still kept the war economy going), the middle class exploded into super-dominance all across the western world, and with so many people now comfortably living in the middle class, disposable income became a huge force for social and cultural change and produced something the world really hadn't seen before; mass market entertainment. This all coalesced into shared cultural touchstones (zeitgeists) like pop/rock music, almost-universally palatable movies and performances (Disney), and an access to higher education that was unmatched by any other point in history. We coasted along like that for a good 40-50 years, with the hardships of the past becoming distant memories, and new emerging economies to exploit to ensure that prices remained low enough that the average middle-class family could still have it all if they worked hard enough.

But as the economies of the west just kept growing and growing, centralization started to become a bigger and bigger force, where before factories were placed outside of the inner cities to avoid things like air pollution, congestion, and pricey land, they were no moved out of the country entirely either due to increased automation or foreign (centralized to the east) labor. This meant that people had to re-align their career prospects and the "white-collar" worker become by far the most populous type of middle-class workforce outside of agriculture. And white-collar workers largely have offices located in large metropolitan cities, this of course caused the cost of living to skyrocket as more and more of the disposable income was dedicated to house and home (going from 1/4th to 2/4th or sometimes even 3/4ths), and this caused a rather interesting dilemma for the west; stop the goods and services economic machine that had made so many so rich, or find a way to make those same goods and service even more affordable; so centralization and globalization was kicked into overdrive in order to lower cost of production, and perhaps even more importantly; individuals accruing massive amounts of debt (credit cards) was normalized. Now with the growing need for more and more financial actors to milk this western market, diversification and free market capitalize was bound to run amok, that's why we don't just have McDonalds, we also have Burger King, KCF, Wendy's, White Castle, Pizza Hut, Subway, Dominos, Taco Bell, ect ect. That's why we don't just have 1 TV show about vampires and monsters, we have like 6. The market is so huge, and so many people have so many different tastes and money to spend on those tastes (wether responsibly or not) that you can make enough money on just one small niche to be a runaway success, especially if you have clever/predatory advertising on your side. On the other hand, this is why brands that try to appeal to everyone is also being watered down and sterilized as much as they are; everyone is picky. Marvel doesn't just have the cultural mood of the west to deal with and focus test against, they also have to match that up against what people want in China, or Pakistan, or Brazil. The wast doesn't just produce content for the west anymore, and yes this is mainly due to the success and global economic power the west has attained.

In comes the east; they are now where we were 50-60 years ago. They are having their own middle-class explosion in their respective societies (even in eastern Europe, not just Asia), so they are on the begging of that upwards curve and this has produced things like Russian action/alien movies with effects and budgets that would rival Hollywood if it weren't for the massive difference in actor compensation, the same is true for India and Bollywood, or China where the top 5 grossing films ever are Chinese and you've never heard of them (with nr 6 being Endgame). As another user said earlier in the thread "hopefully they produce some good art while standing on our shoulders", the only shame is that we probably won't see much of it, because unlike the west which has always had a relatively unified cultural development, these other nations are big enough and insular enough that they don't ever need to export their culture to us, they don't care if we'll ever see their next big blockbuster or hear their best pop-stars (though Korea is the odd one out there), they have a population of over a billion people to feed, they don't need our 600 million (roughly speaking the population of the western developed world) consumers anymore.
 

GymWolf

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They started listening to the biggest imbeciles they found. This is not about minorities; it is about the minorities in the minorities.

They found even within those small groups the most stupid people and because they were the loudest and the most obnoxious, they thought everybody thinks like them.

Or basicly this happend:




Where i can find like another thousand of this stuff?!
 

DeafTourette

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They started listening to the biggest imbeciles they found. This is not about minorities; it is about the minorities in the minorities.

They found even within those small groups the most stupid people and because they were the loudest and the most obnoxious, they thought everybody thinks like them.

Or basicly this happend:





This is how I've seen some Anti-Karens behave online. It's pathetic.
 

manfestival

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American Culture has become this state of self loathing and non identity. There is more of an identity of being non American and separating oneself from America than there is to be within these days.
 

manfestival

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America has been in the grip of religious conservatism vs progressive idealism for quite a while now.

When somebody finally fucking works out that neither is the right way forward, things will improve.
Yep I agree, it is a sad state. I have traveled a few times this year and plan on doing more in the near future. The culture of different countries is so fascinating and part of what draws me to them. Before Covid I was planning on staying in Bolivia or Colombia for a year or two. Both places are VERY VERY different but I loved my times in those places.
 
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Dude aren't you parisian? How can you say stuff like that?!

🤓 Lesson time 🤓

Bowie was british, and a kiddie didler as famous brits tend to be.
Disco was invented by the french with the help of some scrawny looking italians we let in.
Modern democracy was invented by the french too. French drafted the US declaration of independence. French generals made war against the brits winnable.
Americans had so much more fun with french just look at the culture in New Orleans.
The brits might consider themselves the father of the americans, but do a dna test and you'll see who's the real father. We just didn't stay, we got up and left like the cool indiana jones adventuring type we are. That was a huge mistake, we let the ugly bitter british step dad to raise you. We let you down America and for this i m sorry.

The USA were good as long as they had a connexion with their latin roots. The more the british mindset predominate, the uglier it gets.

French Latin USA :


British soulless corporate USA :


I base this demonstration on nothing, and cannot prove any assertion i made nor will i ever be able to.

(i know Mohini Dey is indian, i don't care)

I say old chap, steady on!

 
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jufonuk

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True, but it had to rhyme with Zappa :messenger_grinning_sweat:
Should have mentioned Bowie, Freddie, BB King, Joplin, Hooker, Waters, Hendrix, Lynyrd Skynyrd and all that other good stuff.

Although I'd say your disco culture made them great and known to the world.
Ffs man Bowie is English. Yeah I know someone that flipping awesome can be from the U.K. but ohh well.
Also U.K. claims Hendrix as he made it in the U.K. before America also most of his original band were British.
 

strange headache

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Ffs man Bowie is English. Yeah I know someone that flipping awesome can be from the U.K. but ohh well.
Also U.K. claims Hendrix as he made it in the U.K. before America also most of his original band were British.


Also, read the thread.
 

Soltype

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9/11 happened , America has been reeling ever since in almost every facet.
 

lethial

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I'm Canadian and deal with the USA almost every day for work and have travelled extensively throughout. I've noticed a change since 9/11. It's a wonderful country with lots of great people. It's "sad" to see the state it's in now.
 
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StormCell

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Appreciated. For clarity, Twitter and social media act as megaphones for subcultures, rage and freakish behaviour that would otherwise never be proliferant enough to be heard let alone normalized. I.E. Incels, extremists, hyper-sexualization, pedos. On that last point, there’s a shockingly large blue-check mark push toward normalizing child sexualizaton in general.


I just read another, much darker series of suggestions from an NBC contributor the other day who is actually part of a pedo-normalizing not for profit now. I’ll see if I can find that. None of this is normal behaviour or something that should even be discussed outside of a session with your therapist.

When you have a society and technological tools that encourage/enable the worst of human behaviour, this is what you get.

I'm going out on a limb here. GAF, don't ban me for this.

Okay, that tweet that was screen capped in the link you pasted was not advocating for children in porn or anything of the sort. Flora Gill was stating that there should be porn that is considered okay for adolescents to view. I don't have any idea what that would really look like in terms of content delivery, but to her point many young adolescents and adults go looking for porn and find what I can only describe as some of the most unrealistic sex imaginable. They go to the tube porn site and find slapping, choking, BDSM, and just all kinds of terrible plotlines.

Don't know what the answer is on a question I wouldn't have tried to answer, but her concern seems to be that young adolescents->adults are being given the wrong impression about sex. I would say she isn't wrong about the highly impressionable being given a very bad impression. I do think that she started her tweet incredibly poorly. Teens are not quite children, and the term covers a very broad swath where one would not want 13-15 year olds viewing adult content, but one would not dare to criticize those 17 and up.
 
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M1chl

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I recently saw "Nobody" and it's a very American old school action movie. So, all is not lost yet.
You may want to look, at who has direct it and spoiler, it's not American.

So yeah, we from Eastern block likes those old American movies.

Is it any good?! I love bob but i don't know how he fare with an action movie...
I liked it, was fun movie.
 
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CAB_Life

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I'm going out on a limb here. GAF, don't ban me for this.

Okay, that tweet that was screen capped in the link you pasted was not advocating for children in porn or anything of the sort. Flora Gill was stating that there should be porn that is considered okay for adolescents to view. I don't have any idea what that would really look like in terms of content delivery, but to her point many young adolescents and adults go looking for porn and find what I can only describe as some of the most unrealistic sex imaginable. They go to the tube porn site and find slapping, choking, BDSM, and just all kinds of terrible plotlines.

Don't know what the answer is on a question I wouldn't have tried to answer, but her concern seems to be that young adolescents->adults are being given the wrong impression about sex. I would say she isn't wrong about the highly impressionable being given a very bad impression. I do think that she started her tweet incredibly poorly. Teens are not quite children, and the term covers a very broad swath where one would not want 13-15 year olds viewing adult content, but one would not dare to criticize those 17 and up.
Actually, no: she doubled down on her insane bullshit and then deleted all her posts and cried victim and “context” (as if context ever mattered for Twitter).
 
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StormCell

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Actually, no: she doubled down on her insane bullshit and then deleted all her posts and cried victim and “context” (as if context ever mattered for Twitter).
That's not in the screen cap you linked to. Screen cap contained a complete thought. My comments pertain only to that complete thought.
 

Go_Ly_Dow

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Good read.

Spectator: Who'd want to move to America now

 

Raven117

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Good read.

Spectator: Who'd want to move to America now

This is not a good read. Talking about a culture clash between Europe and middle America is simply silly.

I'm sure I could write the same derivative dribble, if I went to some middle of the road European city and described their world of quite desperation.
 
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sol_bad

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I don't listen to music so don't really care about it. Different generations will care about different artists. Our generation might understand the importance of artists like Aretha Franklin, Bob Dylan, Neil Young and ABBA etc. Most of us were probably introduced to them by our parents. But the majority of the generation before our parents and their parents probably wouldn't care about these artists and might even consider it to be just noise. I know this is just my own personal life experience but I never heard my nana or pop listen to or care for those artists.
Like wise, kids and teenagers these days don't care about these artists either. They may recognise the songs when they are played but they don't actively seek it out and listen to it. My nieces (15 and 19) for example love Billie Eilish and Post Malone. So to my nieces, these artists are more important than ABBA or Bob Dylan or Nirvana or Guns N Roses etc.

Our generation alone doesn't dictate and decide what culture is and isn't important from America.
 
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Corgi1985

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Europe inflicted James Corden on the world, so America is at least better than that.

Waterloo is the only decent ABBA song.
 
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