I agree, I bought the game, but I wasn't hyped like I was with the three Mario titles mentioned. I'm not sure why it was over-hyped.
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SM3DW sells 107k in Japan, lowest 3D Mario debut ever
- Thread starter zomgbbqftw
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I agree, I bought the game, but I wasn't hyped like I was with the three Mario titles mentioned. I'm not sure why it was over-hyped.
meanspartan
Member
Not sure what everyone was expecting.
I have noticed more and more articles in recent weeks talking about how great the Wii U is and how it is totally a better buy than PS4 or Xbox One. I don't know if this is just games journalists feeling bad for Nintendo, the company they grew up with, or something else. But people aren't buying into it.
The WiI U does indeed have a handful of awesome titles, titles better than most other games on the market. But that is it. A handful. And the occasional and rare third party game like Bayonetta 2. But my Wii gathered dust other than maybe the two times a year Nintendo released something I liked. Third party games I liked I could count on one hand for all 6 years the Wii was around.
I will buy Wii U once it is $150-200 and packaged with some awesome games, and no sooner. Maybe PS4 and Xbox One don't have the best launch ever and things will be dry for a few months. But people know that there WILL BE games coming. From Sony and MS and from third parties more importantly.
Nintendo needed to get the third parties onboard, and not just for the launch window. And they more or less failed. If you were going to buy one console in the coming months, why would it be Wii U for $300? When the PS4 is only $100 more, way more powerful with more online and entertainment capability, and promises to have real third party support?
Super Mario 3D World? Awesome game. I can't wait to play it a couple years down the line. But it is not enough to get me to drop $300 on a machine that will collect dust 11 months out of the year. This, coming from a guy who grew up on Nintendo and who still plays his beloved SNES from time to time.
I have noticed more and more articles in recent weeks talking about how great the Wii U is and how it is totally a better buy than PS4 or Xbox One. I don't know if this is just games journalists feeling bad for Nintendo, the company they grew up with, or something else. But people aren't buying into it.
The WiI U does indeed have a handful of awesome titles, titles better than most other games on the market. But that is it. A handful. And the occasional and rare third party game like Bayonetta 2. But my Wii gathered dust other than maybe the two times a year Nintendo released something I liked. Third party games I liked I could count on one hand for all 6 years the Wii was around.
I will buy Wii U once it is $150-200 and packaged with some awesome games, and no sooner. Maybe PS4 and Xbox One don't have the best launch ever and things will be dry for a few months. But people know that there WILL BE games coming. From Sony and MS and from third parties more importantly.
Nintendo needed to get the third parties onboard, and not just for the launch window. And they more or less failed. If you were going to buy one console in the coming months, why would it be Wii U for $300? When the PS4 is only $100 more, way more powerful with more online and entertainment capability, and promises to have real third party support?
Super Mario 3D World? Awesome game. I can't wait to play it a couple years down the line. But it is not enough to get me to drop $300 on a machine that will collect dust 11 months out of the year. This, coming from a guy who grew up on Nintendo and who still plays his beloved SNES from time to time.
What?
Nintendo Land
NSMBU/NSLU
ZombiU
Lego City
Monster Hunter 3 U
Pikmin 3
Wonderful 101
Wind Waker HD
Rayman Legends (Definitive version)
Super Mario 3D World
Wii ____ U
2014 and later announced:
DKC Tropical Freeze
Mario Kart 8
Super Smash Bros.
X
Bayonetta 2
Yarn Yoshi
FE x SMT
Zelda U
+ Wii U VC
+ Wii VC and BC
+ CoD, Batman, AssCreed, Watch Dogs, Project Cars, NFS:MWU (definitive console version), Deus Ex, etc.
Maybe, maybe not. There is competition to be had within the software field to keep quality up. And maybe some of Nintendo's more niche franchises might be able to find a larger fanbase on more then one platform. Look I understand why Nintendo fans don't want this to be and thats fine. All I am speaking about is my interest in Nintendo which is enough to invest in a few franchises here and there but not enough to invest in a complete system for those franchises.
And Sega and Nintendo are very different companies with different goals and people in charge. Maybe Nintendo could do better then Sega.
At least retail musings and anecdotal 'stuff' has Mario selling a lot better in NA.. it should be interesting come NPD time. I'm optimistic for Wii U, but Nintendo is still a very Japan-centric company. The failure of Wii U on home shores could cause them to make a rash decision regarding the future of handhelds over home consoles.
Warm Machine
Member
As far as the hybrid goes, a Nvidia Tegra 5 is coming soon. 2 more generations of those processors and they will have mobile graphics sitting comfortably between a Xbox 360 and a Xbox One.
Really, Nintendo needs to fuse their development if they want to do another console. A next gen DS or handheld is going to increase their game production costs anyway. Better to fuse the two lines and make the same game for both platforms so they may cover both avenues and be able to supply them with titles even if they don't go hybrid.
Right now Nintendo probably wishes they could put the new Mario on 3DS and put the new Zelda on WiiU.
Really, Nintendo needs to fuse their development if they want to do another console. A next gen DS or handheld is going to increase their game production costs anyway. Better to fuse the two lines and make the same game for both platforms so they may cover both avenues and be able to supply them with titles even if they don't go hybrid.
Right now Nintendo probably wishes they could put the new Mario on 3DS and put the new Zelda on WiiU.
That's a fucking disaster. I don't know if I saw anyone guess this low for it in the MC thread.
Guys, I know it hurts, but stop trying to convince yourself this is "fine" or somehow acceptable for the size of the install base.
How are they going to turn this around? I wonder how a Wii U animal crossing would do...or if most of the fanbase is one portable now.
Guys, I know it hurts, but stop trying to convince yourself this is "fine" or somehow acceptable for the size of the install base.
How are they going to turn this around? I wonder how a Wii U animal crossing would do...or if most of the fanbase is one portable now.
Touche.
That is a great reason I will give you that. however, I just don't think putting all your eggs into one basket is all that smart. Nintendo can survive the Wii U bombing to an extent because of the 3DS's success (INB4 Bu-but it's tracking under the DS so therefore its a failure toooooo). If this mythical Hybrid Console fails, then what? They wouldn't have a fail back plan. That plus the fact that even if it does succeed, they probably won't make as much money as the ywould from a handheld and a mediocre console (the Wii U isn't this of course but I think they can put out a better console still). So yeah while that is a definite plus to have whole focus on the console from all of their studios, I just don't think that it is a enough to negate the negatives of one income stream, no fall back option, the cost, and the fact that the technology isnt there.
That being said, the Wii U is a failure. The name is dumb and honestly, the tablet hasn't added much as all of the best games on the system....don't really use it. So yes this was a bad idea. They hitched their wagon to an idea that was better served off as a side thing ala the Balance Board, not the entire idea behind the system. If they wanted to stay "unique" IMO, they should have furthered the motion control idea. One of my favorite ideas is the breakaway controller, that way both "hardcore" and "casual" audiences would get, that plus a slightly mroe powerful console and all the other stuff and then later in the gen add the tablet (it should also be cheaper to make then..I think). So yeah Nintendo fucked up with the Wii U. But they have atleast 2 more Wii U level fucks ups before it gets to the shitty 3rd party and Hybrid ideas because by then they wouldn't have a choice.
I will admit that I am bitter because I saw Sega, my favorite company when I had such a thing, die. Nintendo isn't Sega but it is tough to watch Sega not put out the games I loved from them because they can't due to sales. We won't see any more Shenmue's, Skies of Arcadia, Jet Grind Radios, and other unique properties from them anymore because they can't afford failures anymore. I mean it's why Bayonetta had to be "saved" and why Valkyria Chronicles is dead. (Althought with the Atlus acquisition...maybe they are healtier than I think...I hope.) #rd Party Nintendo wouldnt be the same. EAD would be broken up, Talent would leave, and if people are sick of Mario and Zelda only...they would really be mad then. So these Doooooomed threads really bum me out. Gaming is important to me and considering 3 of my top 5 games of this year are from Nintendo, seeing them die would suck. I had more fun with 3Dworld than 5 of the games on my new Ps4. Nintendo's brand of games are what I want and seeing them bomb (not just Nintendo, other Japanese games) is awful as it will only mean that soon every game with have to feature gunz, or cinematic experiences and shit.
So excuse me if I come off as bitter.
/rant
Wickerbasket
Member
This may shock you, but everyone's taste is different.
Out of that list I can pick maybe two, maybe three, games I'd buy and some of them aren't even released yet.
As for multiplats, I can only imagine someone buying them on Wii U if that's the only console they own.
Katana_Strikes
Member
I think it's too late for that. They should have had a long, hard look in the mirror many months ago after sales and software dried up. Hoping Mario3D and some Wii _____ games would turn things around was a swing and a miss.
megabytecr
Member
They have been hinting at a tool base for both, not a hybrid. This is where the gamepad idea can come in handy, as you can have portable games on your home console being played on the gamepad so that the portable game does not look like ass on the TV. Now I don´t think all games will transfer from one system to another so that you still make people buy both, but for game droughts this can be a game changer.
Why are you telling this to me? The point was showing the diversity of viable purchase options as opposed to making the statement that there's only one or two games worth picking up on Wii U.
Teletraan1
Banned
Cats land on their feet. This game will be fine.
Neff
Member
Nintendo's high profitability model can definitely accomplish it, it's just a matter of intelligent budgeting, franchise-milking, and the slow, tedious process of selling games over a long period.
Wii U's bottleneck is install base versus project viability, and these business components are currently not cooperating too well, but it will widen. Nintendo just has to be patient, which it very much is.
Indeed.
The unfortunate fact is that with a company as ingrained and stubborn as Nintendo the only way to shake them out of their current thinking and possibly toward a more long term successful path with home consoles is for some severe short term shocks to the company by way of poor sales and some failures. That way they will begin te hard process of thinking outside of their comfort zone and maybe making some managerial and company changes to inject fresh ideas into Nintendo's philosophy and company.
Nintendo and home consoles have been the boiling frog metaphor for a while now. The water is heating up around Nintendo slow enough that Nintendo has been unwilling to drastically change their business models and thinking(even so much as being blessed with a novelty trend in the wii). Many think that Nintendo's survival in home consoles would better come about if they were thrown into the boiling water now instead of slowly letting it boil them gradually over time. That way they recognize the danger quickly and get out of the water instead of letting it slowly boil them until it's impossible to jump out. Because if that happens no jobs will be saved in the long term.
dream
Member
A question that's been bandied about over the past year is just how relevant is Mario and other iconic Nintendo characters like it. It feels like we're at a strange point in time where the kids who grew up on Mario are now older and in a position where obligations outweigh nostalgia. Similarly, today's kids are growing up in a world where Mario just doesn't matter--they're playing other stuff.
I know this is just one game in one region, so it's tough to determine if Mario is still relevant or not. But I think it's safe to say that this game will bomb in the UK as well, which will make the US numbers pretty interesting.
I know this is just one game in one region, so it's tough to determine if Mario is still relevant or not. But I think it's safe to say that this game will bomb in the UK as well, which will make the US numbers pretty interesting.
timetokill
Banned
I would hope people aren't happy about it, but you must not be reading the thread if you somehow missed the glee that many have over the latest Nintendo failing.
The fact that you bring up Sega is ironic, because they brought out a bunch of amazing, varied games in the DC days... and then went bankrupt.
If the lesson is ultimately "amazing games aren't the key factor in determining success," I don't know why ANYBODY on this board would be happy, other than the console warriors and plants and so on.
You seem to be ignoring the biggest group: the ones that want Nintendo to succeed but would like it if their incredible games like Mario 3D World, Pikmin 3, and Wonderful 101 dictated that success, and not "doing what everyone else does."
Sometimes the most obvious reason is the answer, and that is: The Wii U has the best games to play, right now, and at the lowest price. What happened is the PS4/Xbone finally released and so they could stop stoking the fires of that hype machine and look back and say, hey, there's actually a lot of fun software on this Wii U thing.
The fact that you're trying to ascribe some hidden motives, like "pity" or "nostalgia" or whatever speaks more to your line of thinking than the reality of the situation.
I said this in the Lightning Returns thread, but looking at the Media Create sales that week and comparing both games to predecessors, it seems to me like the problem isn't just those two games, but that the whole market is in noticeable decline compared to even two years ago. 3D World still debuted number two on the charts right behind LR. Those were still the two most popular releases that week. It just seems that less people in Japan are willing to buy conventional video games period.
Good post.
Ah, I remember I was interested in seeing 3D World's sales as an indicator of how active the userbase was in Japan. Others in this thread have also wondered "Just what does the userbase want to play?" I'd think this indicates that many of the people who own WiiU's have already put them away, I was hoping for a ramping up in activity from Summer onwards but that hasn't happened.
^^^^Dream, I wonder too, but it's not surefire, see sales of Puppeteer for instance, and Nintendo has tried too, with Lego City being one example, so maybe Nintendo would have better luck creating new characters like they did with Banjo-Kazooie (as a kid I loved that game...). But I'm thinking more about the West, I don't know about what Japanese children find appealing
(Capcom is hoping they like Gaist Crusher...)
^^^^Dream, I wonder too, but it's not surefire, see sales of Puppeteer for instance, and Nintendo has tried too, with Lego City being one example, so maybe Nintendo would have better luck creating new characters like they did with Banjo-Kazooie (as a kid I loved that game...). But I'm thinking more about the West, I don't know about what Japanese children find appealing
(Capcom is hoping they like Gaist Crusher...)The perfect Dark
Banned
I don't think it's surprising at all.
1. WiiU install base is still pretty low
2. 100.000. is ok for a 3D Mario with low install base + Mario games usually have legs
3. No 3D mario game had a big impact on hardware sales
I'm still confident that the WiiU (and Mario 3D World) sales will be okay over the next few weeks.
1. WiiU install base is still pretty low
2. 100.000. is ok for a 3D Mario with low install base + Mario games usually have legs
3. No 3D mario game had a big impact on hardware sales
I'm still confident that the WiiU (and Mario 3D World) sales will be okay over the next few weeks.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
But the 12th recycled Monster Hunter or God Eater game sells over a million the first week!
SMH
SMH
Bill Rizer
Member
Nintendo must drop Mario asap.
This wouldn't have happened if the game had Waluigi as the main character.
This wouldn't have happened if the game had Waluigi as the main character.
Aquamarine
Member
We didn't. The ABSOLUTE LOWEST prediction that GAF made for Super Mario 3D World's first week is 108,000, and it only sold-through 106,967 units.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Expected, low intsallbase, I don't see how anyone is suprised about this.
Also, Everyone expecting japan to care about the PS4 is going to be disappointed, it will sell well whenever FFXV/KH3 drops but before that I don't expect it to sell much.
Also, Everyone expecting japan to care about the PS4 is going to be disappointed, it will sell well whenever FFXV/KH3 drops but before that I don't expect it to sell much.
Then his point and mine flew over your head.
An average person, even an enthusiast, is not going to pick up all of those games. They're going to pick the games they like.
And for the average person that shortens the list dramatically, thus returning us to the "I'm not going to pick up a Wii U for a handful of games" comment.
greg400 said:
Of that list, I bolded the ones I'd pick up. I might consider Zelda depending on how it turns out.
As for Multiplats, there's no way in hell I'd touch the ones listed there since they're better on other platforms or, even worse, I'd have owned them already by the time they came out for Wii U.
To make matters worse, look at the time gaps between the games I bolded! Some aren't even out yet.
That's what we mean. If I have 360/PS3....it hurts missing out on the ones I bolded, but money is money and there's a ton I'm not missing out on PS3 / 360. And even better, on much more powerful / capable machines in PS4 / XB1.
Exactly. Outside of those games and maybe a Dragon Quest (if it ever returns to PlayStation), Japan stopped giving a fuck about consoles years ago.
Well, to be fair the disparity is so minimal in that comparison that the digital sales probably closed the gap with that prediction.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
I would love this!
Unfortunately, it would take way more work than WW, and thus won't happen
I wonder how well a 64 remake with 4 players (from DS?) would have been?
Solid Samus
Banned
The Real Napsta
Member
Metroid Prime 4 with online MP, no morph ball and Halo shield system and Wii U is saved,
You are welcome nintendo.
You are welcome nintendo.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
No, you clearly don't know how it works.
You can't just say "average worker is paid $75k, 100 people worked on game, dev costs alone were $22.5mil because it's been 3 years since Galaxy 2." That is not how it works. It assumes that those 100 people were only working on 3D World for those entire 3 years, when that is not the case. I'm not even talking about the team starting smaller and ramping up. These people worked on other projects in those 3 years, most likely Super Mario 3D Land among other games.
Are you the guy who said Pikmin 3 cost like $50 million to make because it was announced like 4 years ago? If so, it seems like you haven't figured it out since then.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
Consoles are pretty much dead in Japan. If this was on 3DS I'm sure it'll sell more.
Aaronrules380
Member
Sounds generic, awful, and would do horribly in Japan anyways which is all we can discuss with this set of sales until we hear about how 3d world did in the West, and even that'll have to wait until after Black Friday
Katana_Strikes
Member
- Gamecubes was about the same (a little higher but in less time) when Sunshine launched. Though Sunshines first week sales were far greater.
- 100k isn't good for a mainline 3D Mario. It's the weakest and that includes Mario 64 which was a launch game and therefore sales would have been constraint by hardware Also lower than the port on the DS which was also at launch. Mario does have legs but considering people were saying that Mario should have gained lots more fans now thanks to the DS and WIi popularity, it'll remain to be seen how good these legs can be on Wii U. Nothing promising going off those launch numbers though.
- Gamecube saw a nice little bump from Mario Sunshine which is a better comparison than the Wii which saw about the same bumps for the Galaxies. Do most Nintendo fans now already own a Wii U? Where does Nintendo go next to expand the userbase?
Aquamarine
Member
Considering how well 3D Land performed, I'm heavily inclined to agree with you.
Hell, I even said if it was less than NSMBU then I would be perplexed as to what the userbase even wanted to play; if the majority was not playing ALL the Nintendo first party titles, then at least the majority would want to play the new Mario game... :-( So that is why I wanted to see this title's performance as an indicator of how active the userbase was, but I suppose I should have seen the "trends" of the first party titles starting in Summer as indicative of what to expect.
Well, Super Mario 3D Land is the best selling 3D Mario ever, so yes, it would have sold more.
gamergirly
Member
Great post
Wickerbasket
Member
My point was that there may not be a lot of options for the majority of people looking at that games list and what options people might consider, aren't even released yet.
Maybe once the Wii U actually has those games you've listed then people might consider it a purchase worth making.
I know that I'm waiting on those games releasing, as well as a price drop.
Oh I know. That would be too good to happen.I would love this!
Unfortunately, it would take way more work than WW, and thus won't happen
SM64 would suffer with coop I think. It doesn't need it, even this day in age tbh.
Aaronrules380
Member
Lets ignore that Japan's market as a whole cares less about consoles than ever, shall we?
The perfect Dark
Banned
Is there any information on digital download numbers? That could make a difference, too (compared to the Wii/Gamecube games)
BoboBrazil
Member
Exactly. It's best to get a Nintendo system at eol because then you can play the 2-3 good Nintendo games it gets a year at a fraction of the cost. Paying $300 up front for it to collect dust most of the year doesn't make sense.
Amazing games have always and will always be a factor but they have never been the ONLY factor to success.
But marketing, buzz, price, performance, features and stigma are also key factors in success and always have been.
But even more importantly on your amazing games point, the demand factor has to be accounted for. You may find online FPS games like halo, CoD, team fortress and ARMA to not meet your definition of awesome but a large portion of gaming society may. So not only is awesome games a factor but more importantly those awesome games need to reflect societies wants if they wish to be successful. Just because Mario isn't selling doesn't mean people are rejecting awesome games, it means they are rejecting this particular type of awesome game or the system it's being made for. And the even deeper reasons of why are even more unknown but probably fracture in their reasoning even further.
One of Nintendo's big problems right now is that they are actively ignoring social trends right now. They are making games more for an 80's and 90's market then a 2010's era.
Lots of companies make amazing games but as a hardware manufacturer Nintendo needs to recognize that trends change and to be successful they need to cater to them in some way, be it a platform third parties that provide those experiences want to work on, or in-house. Or they need to be out in front of the trends and set their own like they once did with Pokemon and the wii. Absent of achieving that they are going to continue to have difficulty resonating with a large audience if they actively ignore them.
It's actually not tough at all. SMG 2 sold amazingly well. 3D Land and NSMB 2 have had amazing sales so far, and both have much life left in them. Even NSMB U has sold over 2 million copies. This 107k number is a huge disappointment, but anyone asking themselves, "Is Mario still relevant?" is asking the wrong question. "So what can Nintendo do to save the Wii U, then, considering this early sign of poor sales for a 3D Mario?" is the right one.
Again this depends entirely on the individual which is why making blanket statements such as only one or two viable games is ridiculous.
Besides the fact that the list is already lengthy there are tons of people that buy a console for a single game regardless. See Persona, see MH, see Pokemon, see Halo, see Mario, see Wii Sports, see Animal Crossing, see Zelda, Etc.
So your statement holds no ground in either regard. People are willing to pick up a console when there's so much as one game they want to play on it, let alone the amount I listed of viable options.
Wii U multiplats feature Off-TV play over PS4/One and some graphical or feature enhancements (again including off-tv) over PS3/360. See Rayman Legends, see NFS:MWU. Also this year multiplats launched the same time on Wii U as other platforms, last year they didn't because it was launch.
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