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[Nibel]

Wii U - Check Your Expectations at the Door

Doesn't make a good marketing slogan, does it? It's not my job as a consumer to get excited by whatever Nintendo puts out. It's their job to excite me. And there's a big problem right now if even a Wii U owner who posts on NeoGAF with a username from a Nintendo game can't be excited about their big holiday title.

I don't care if you are a Nintendo fan or not

I'm well aware of your posts, you and SpielerEins are notorious for disliking this game and that's fine, but a) saying that it does lack certain qualities when it is factually wrong proven by dozens of available opinions of people with great reputation and b) expressing happiness when a game of such quality fails not only seems out of place to me, but more like an attempt to take shots at the game in a thread with the subject of its sales.

It did not sell good at all, but none of your points has to do with that - the main problem is that the Wii U is a super unattractive console in Japan, a market where console gaming is slowly decreasing with the current offering. The user base with Wii Us at home is already small enough, and the user base of Wii U owners who want to play a 3D Mario game is even smaller since 3D home console Mario titles didn't make it big in Japan.

Look up the sales of all previous 3D Mario games in Japan and you'll see that those points you are just mentioning to clarify your already known position have nothing to do with the game's perfomance

 

[Riki]

It brought in a fresh new aesthetic to the franchise. The gravity mechanics changed many of the rules of 3D platforming and how you approach each level and the soundtrack was absolutely fresh and bold.

And they pretty much did away with the gravity mechanics in Galaxy 2, which most claim was better than the first.
Meanwhile, 3D World introduces multiplayer aspects, all new powerups, new level designs like the shooter level and Mario Kart levels, new world structures and multiple ways to play the game.
How 3D World is "conservative and a rehash" while "Galaxy is the greatest thing since sliced bread" is beyond me.

 

[marc^o^]

..... So your saying you are basing all your judgment on videos and have not played any of it yourself?....

Speiler Eins wrote a 200 pages book about how Mario 3D World would be a total disgrace, and he got a great gif out of it. Freezie KO wrote the exact same thing for months, but it seems people didn't notice it. I blame the less distinctive avatar.

 

[Solid Samus]

Wii U - Check Your Expectations at the Door

I think you're missing his point. Not everyone is as disappointed at this game as you and I'd even go as far to say that this game would have more milage with more people than the Galaxy series did if it were released on a console that Nintendo hadn't drilled into the ground

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

And they pretty much did away with the gravity mechanics in Galaxy 2

No they didn't.

 

[Unknown One]

"the general audience is going to see"

Yeah that's probably it.

My brother who plays nothing but cod and 2k games could see the difference. He's still gushing over it. Casual players are not blind, they just have different standards. Going from a blurry mess to a clear picture is huge.

 

[Zinthar]

When a console has a tiny install base and a weak software lineup, normally you'd expect a critically-acclaimed, major AAA exclusive from one of the strongest IP's in the industry to sell with a strong attach rate. So it begs the question: who the hell owns the Wii U? Is the console just collecting dust in a closet?

It looks like the audience is quite a bit different than it was during the early GCN days.

 

[Riki]

No they didn't.

That majority of the levels in Galaxy 2 did not have any emphasis on gravity shifting.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

I think it is, but then again I thought the the leap last generation wasn't that big of difference either. If most game journalists and even some hardcore gamers here can't tell the difference, the general public certainly won't.

Regardless, I don't think the degree of the graphical leap matters all that much more than the issue that Sony and MS are once again depending on pure hardware strength to sell their consoles. The Wii proved that you can sell a console on more than just graphics, and the fact that neither Sony or MS took this into consideration this generation is pretty frightening. It shows just how forgetful and short-sighted the industry is.

The Wii was lightning in a bottle, an anomaly. It's not fair to expect Sony or MS to attempt something like that.

 

[Solid Samus]

I'm sure when I play it, the game will suddenly cease to be a direct sequel to 3D World. My playing the game will magically imbue the game with a sense of not being based on the mechanics of the 3DS game, though even the positive reviews state that to be the case.

Maybe you'll get over it and realize that being a 'direct sequel to 3D Land' like you continue to reiterate doesn't actually say anything whatsoever about the quality of the game. Maybe you'll read my long winded post on the subject 2 pages back which was originally directed toward you in another thread to begin with and speaks about this sort of opinion at length. IDK, man, I really can see what you and Anticitizen are saying, I just wish you'd get off this 'wah its not ambitious enough' shit like these guys are never gonna make a Mario game you'll like again or like they didn't do more to satisfy last generation than most developers do during their entire career.

 

[Poimandres]

Are people surprised by this? Of course it's going to be the lowest debut, it has the lowest install base and if it's going to shift systems it'll do it over time not in one big go.

Ummm wasn't SM64 DS a launch title? I'd be concerned if the Wii U has a lower install base than the DS did at launch.

 

[Solid Samus]

When a console has a tiny install base and a weak software lineup, normally you'd expect a critically-acclaimed, major AAA exclusive from one of the strongest IP's in the industry to sell with a strong attach rate. So it begs the question: who the hell owns the Wii U? Is the console just collecting dust in a closet?

It looks like the audience is quite a bit different than it was during the early GCN days.

Why are we judging the sales of Mario games by metrics foreign to Mario games?
Thing about those is that they'll sell modestly up front

and continue to sell at a decent clip for a long time given that the audience is actually there

which is the issue with the Wii U and not even fucking Galaxy 3 could save the Wii U on its own like some of these people think beyond all logic and reason

 

[x-Lundz-x]

I think it is, but then again I thought the the leap last generation wasn't that big of difference either. If most game journalists and even some hardcore gamers here can't tell the difference, the general public certainly won't.

Regardless, I don't think the degree of the graphical leap matters all that much more than the issue that Sony and MS are once again depending on pure hardware strength to sell their consoles. The Wii proved that you can sell a console on more than just graphics, and the fact that neither Sony or MS took this into consideration this generation is pretty frightening. It shows just how forgetful and short-sighted the industry is.

No, it shows how they knew the Wii was a fluke just like everyone else who knew better. Both of their console launch sales show they were right and just how thoughtful and long term their thinking was.

 

[Solid Samus]

Ummm wasn't SM64 DS a launch title? I'd be concerned if the Wii U has a lower install base than the DS did at launch.

Difference between DS and Wii U is that people actually wanted the DS hahaha

It'll take more than one great Mario game to dig the Wii U out of its hole.

 

[megabytecr]

I've been following videos and posts about the game quite a lot. I played 3D Land to full completion, and I've been playing Mario games my entire life. I feel very qualified to judge what I'm seeing and how it plays.

That said, I've been traveling for Thanksgiving. I considered passing on 3D World, but now that they delayed Donkey Kong, I'll end up getting it when I get home. I'm sure you're anxious for my impressions.

Oh, that explains everything.

I think I am having a bit more fun or the same with SM3DW than SMG1 or 2. I will actually take more out of it than SMG1 or 2 because of the Multiplayer and several characters. I will make several SP playthroughs with different characters, plus I will play a lot with my kids.

The game is full on diversity/creativity making it ideal for replayability, plus it has MP.

 

[Solid Samus]

Oh, that explains everything.

I think I am having a bit more fun or the same with SM3DW than SMG1 or 2. I will actually take more out of it than SMG1 or 2 because of the Multiplayer and several characters. I will make several SP playthroughs with different characters, plus I will play a lot with my kids.

The game is full on diversity making it ideal for replayability, plus it has MP.

Those things aren't relevant to him and therefore aren't relevant to anyone's experience with the game

like duh

 

[greg400]

I already did. You still didn't disprove his post. The Wii U library is small. For most people for such a small library that relies on first party support every year only a few of those games are going to appeal to most people regardless how diverse the lineup is.

By listing off 7-10 first party games for this year and next just reinforces his/her point.

Clearly you didn't if that's the post you're responding to.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=91540681&postcount=1053

 

[Ty4on]

3D World has more innovation, ambition, and creativity than pretty much anything else I've played in years.

It's still not very visible. To a regular consumer it looks like a HD sequel to 3D Land which looked like a 2D Mario that had been extruded.

 

[strangedopamine]

I'm sure when I play it, the game will suddenly cease to be a direct sequel to 3D World. My playing the game will magically imbue the game with a sense of not being based on the mechanics of the 3DS game, though even the positive reviews state that to be the case.

Being a derivative of a previous game doesn't mean that it lacks innovation or ambition though.

Makes it kind of hard to determine whether or not you'd like to purchase a game if you hold to not having an opinion before you play it don't you think

True, having an opinion on if you going to purchase it from what you've seen is fine. Acting like that opinion is fact is wrong.

I really should've worded that last post better and for that I apologise.

 

[Solid Samus]

It's still not very visible. To a regular consumer it looks like a HD sequel to 3D Land which looked like a 2D Mario that had been extruded.

Funny because to the same regular consumer that's probably more interesting and less imposing than another star collector would have been

Galaxy had the highest rating but I wonder if it had the lowest attach rate of any console Mario game. To us it was a system seller but to most people it was another Mario game that they didn't want to buy

Whereas this is a Mario game I feel like more people would buy than Galaxy if that didn't require owning a mostly undesirable console in order to play the game.

 

[Zinthar]

I simply believe that what Nintendo needs to get people to the party is a phenomenon like Wii Sports, something nobody knew they wanted until they knew they wanted it. These other games, the Marios, the Zeldas, the Smash Brothers and Mario Karts, and outside of the Nintendo faithful, they're the games that people at the party buy once they're already there. In large part.

I agree. And to add to that, I think Nintendo might have actually been hurt in a way with the success of the Wii -- lots of casual and even semi-hardcore gamers bought it for Wii Sports, but also had a go with Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, & Twilight Princess and got their fill of it.

It's a lot easier to get tired of franchises that rely on repeating the same core gameplay concepts when they lack a strong narrative/story element to get attached to. Nintendo needs a miracle -- in the form of a brilliant, addictive game that no one has seen coming.

 

[Zinthar]

Why are we judging the sales of Mario games by metrics foreign to Mario games?
Thing about those is that they'll sell modestly up front

and continue to sell at a decent clip for a long time given that the audience is actually there

which is the issue with the Wii U and not even fucking Galaxy 3 could save the Wii U on its own like some of these people think beyond all logic and reason

It's fair to compare the attach rates of 3D Mario games to those of other 3D Mario games, and 3D World's first week attach rate is roughly half that of Sunshine's. And it's not like the Wii U's install base is filled with a bunch of casuals -- they don't buy $350 consoles with no software. You'd expect that it's 1.1 million of the most hardcore Nintendo fans around.

 

[Mariolee]

The Wii was lightning in a bottle, an anomaly. It's not fair to expect Sony or MS to attempt something like that.

It's easy to say something is an anomoly and completely give up trying to understand why the Wii was the success it is. Easy and foolish.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

If this ends up being the worst selling one in NA as well what does that mean?

 

[Freezie KO]

I don't care if you are a Nintendo fan or not

I'm well aware of your posts, you and SpielerEins are notorious for disliking this game and that's fine, but a) saying that it does lack certain qualities when it is factually wrong proven by dozens of available opinions of people with great reputation and b) expressing happiness when a game of such quality fails not only seems out of place to me, but more like an attempt to take shots at the game in a thread with the subject of its sales.

It did not sell good at all, but none of your points has to do with that - the main problem is that the Wii U is a super unattractive console in Japan, a market where console gaming is slowly decreasing with the current offering. The user base with Wii Us at home is already small enough, and the user base of Wii U owners who want to play a 3D Mario game is even smaller since 3D home console Mario titles didn't make it big in Japan.

Look up the sales of all previous 3D Mario games in Japan and you'll see that those points you are just mentioning to clarify your already known position have nothing to do with the game's perfomance

A Mario game sold a few thousand more than Pikmin among the install base that's already there. Forget about the idea that this sequel could actually move hardware, why is Mario selling so low even to the established base?

This game should've been a game that at the very least Wii U owners should've bought in droves? But they can't even be bothered. So why is that? It's not exciting people. Maybe it's too close to the game that all the Monster Hunter and Pokemon players already played - 3D Land.

You're right when you say console gaming in Japan is declining. But that exacerbates the idea that maybe Japan is getting their Nintendo fill on 3DS. Why buy a Wii U when games like NSMBU, DKC:TF, 3D World, Mario Kart, and Smash Bros. will have perfectly acceptable and very similar offerings on the handheld?

Little innovation in these franchises means the software isn't differentiated the way it used to be when handheld and console were so far apart with power.

I am aware that I'm discussing two things. A good sales strategy. And what I want personally. I know those don't always intersect. But for this game, it looks like they do. The game hasn't excited the Wii U base nor potential new hardware buyers. It failed to do its job in a way that perhaps a more creative title could have.

 

[Subaru]

This is just sad =(

 

[Solid Samus]

It's fair to compare the attach rates of 3D Mario games to those of other 3D Mario games, and 3D World's first week attach rate is roughly half that of Sunshine's. And it's not like the Wii U's install base is filled with a bunch of casuals -- they don't buy $350 consoles with no software. You'd expect that it's 1.1 million of the most hardcore Nintendo fans around.

And selling the game to a tenth of them before Christmas isn't too bad all things considered. Let's see where this games sales sit at in a month and how the sales of the other 3D Marios compare up to that point.

 

[megabytecr]

And selling the game to a tenth of them before Christmas isn't too bad all things considered. Let's see where this games sales sit at in a month and how the sales of the other 3D Marios compare up to that point.

Yes, I think this is what should be done.

 

[marc^o^]

If this ends up being the worst selling one in NA as well what does that mean?

3D Land must be close to 10 million units by now, and it didn't achieve that during its first month. Knowing 3D World is way better, that everybody is raving about it, and that it's a fantastic party game, I'd say... give it time.

 

[Sergiepoo]

The Wii was lightning in a bottle, an anomaly. It's not fair to expect Sony or MS to attempt something like that.

No, it shows how they knew the Wii was a fluke just like everyone else who knew better. Both of their console launch sales show they were right and just how thoughtful and long term their thinking was.

I don't want to repeat myself, so I suggest y'all read my previous post on the whole "the Wii was a fluke!" thing.

TLDR Version: You have absolutely no proof that the Wii was a fad other than your own wishful thinking. Correlation!=Causation. Please stop acting that like it's a fact.

Is it really unreasonable to think that MS and Sony should at least attempt to appeal to casual audiences? That might be the case since both them and most third party publishers have proven time and again they know little they know about what casual gamers want. Might as well keep on doing what you're good at, right? I'm sure they'll keep on believing this as the traditional console industry shrinks even more this generation and mobile gaming increasingly makes them irrelevant.

Edit: I really love the condescending tone you have with the "who know better" thing. You really think Sony and MS have it all figured it out, don't you?

 

[Solid Samus]

A Mario game sold a few thousand more than Pikmin among the install base that's already there. Forget about the idea that this sequel could actually move hardware, why is Mario selling so low even to the established base?

This game should've been a game that at the very least Wii U owners should've bought in droves? But they can't even be bothered. So why is that? It's not exciting people. Maybe it's too close to the game that all the Monster Hunter and Pokemon players already played - 3D Land.

You're right when you say console gaming in Japan is declining. But that exacerbates the idea that maybe Japan is getting their Nintendo fill on 3DS. Why buy a Wii U when games like NSMBU, DKC:TF, 3D World, Mario Kart, and Smash Bros. will have perfectly acceptable and very similar offerings on the handheld?

Little innovation in these franchises means the software isn't differentiated the way it used to be when handheld and console were so far apart with power.

I am aware that I'm discussing two things. A good sales strategy. And what I want personally. I know those don't always intersect. But for this game, it looks like they do. The game hasn't excited the Wii U base nor potential new hardware buyers. It failed to do its job in a way that perhaps a more creative title could have.

Mario 64 sold 50000 more copies than Mario 3D World at debut in Japan. Mario 64, one of Nintendo's most anticipated titles ever, for their flagship 3D console.

3D Land sold about 3 times more than 3D World did at launch. On a system that roughly three times more people owned.

This performance isn't far from being 'par for the course' at all especially considering the Wii U's sales woes.

I don't understand how this '3d Mario is system seller and should serve that role exclusively' continues to persist. Especially since the Mario games that actually have been proven to serve that role are precisely the ones you don't like (NSMB)

It's more like something to bolster the lineup. Nintendo would have been better served to focus on getting Mario Kart 8 released rather than 3D World.

 

[Jonm1010]

I don't want to repeat myself, so I suggest y'all read my previous post on the whole "the Wii was a fluke!" thing.

TLDR Version: You have absolutely no proof that the Wii was a fad other than your own wishful thinking. Correlation!=Causation. Please stop acting that like it's a fact.

Is it really unreasonable to think that MS and Sony should at least attempt to appeal to casual audiences? That might be the case since both them and most third party publishers have proven time and again they know little they know about what casual gamers want. Might as well keep on doing what you're good at, right? I'm sure they'll keep on believing this as the traditional console industry shrinks even more this generation and mobile gaming increasingly makes them irrelevant.

Again there is no smoking gun to verify the correlation but there is plenty of smoke to support that there is likely some fire.

The reality is that the casual market that embraced the wii hasn't embraced the wiiU not does it looked poised too.

So what exactly is your answer to the real problems here. Arguing the finer points of people's arguments is fun and all but what is your answer then? If it wasn't a fluke or novelty or fad what is Nintendo or other companies missing that is failing to recapture that market?

 

[Data West]

Gaf told me Mario Kart will save everything because it sells well on consoles that already have an install base. That's how it works.

 

[Zornack]

The Wii proved that you can sell a console on more than just graphics, and the fact that neither Sony or MS took this into consideration this generation is pretty frightening.

And the Wii U proved how huge a gamble gimmicks like motion controls and tablets can be. Nintendo tried for magic twice and on their second attempt failed miserably.

Meanwhile the PS2 proved that a well priced gaming console/media center can sell wonderfully.

 

[Solid Samus]

Gaf told me Mario Kart will save everything because it sells well on consoles that already have an install base. That's how it works.

It's not like Mario Kart 7 did anything to help reverse the 3DS's prospects and of course the 3DS was never once seen by anyone as an overpriced and undesirable system for any reason

 

[Zinthar]

TLDR Version: You have absolutely no proof that the Wii was a fad other than your own wishful thinking. Correlation!=Causation. Please stop acting that like it's a fact.

Strictly speaking there's no way to *prove* anything is a fad. However there is an abundance of evidence that is hard to explain otherwise. Namely:

1) Strong early sales of the console in its first few years (when it was a hot item due to Wii Sports & Wii Fit), followed by weak sales in its later years, falling behind the more expensive Xbox 360 consistently. This is the strongest evidence, because the hot console of the previous generation, Playstation 2, didn't have a significant drop-off until the end of the generation.

2) Large drop-off in sales in core franchises during the Wii's generation. For instance, Mario Galaxy 2 and Skyward Sword saw sales fall by 40% from their predecessors, despite having more critical acclaim. Why'd they sell worse then? Probably because SMG & Twilight Princess came during the Wii's fad period, and their successors came after.

3) Extremely weak hardware sales of its successor, Wii U.

How else would you care to describe this evidence? If the Wii wasn't a fad, then surely there are tens of millions of eager Wii owners waiting to pounce on the Wii U... where'd they all go?

 

[Verendus]

I don't want to repeat myself, so I suggest y'all read my previous post on the whole "the Wii was a fluke!" thing.

TLDR Version: You have absolutely no proof that the Wii was a fad other than your own wishful thinking. Correlation!=Causation. Please stop acting that like it's a fact.

Is it really unreasonable to think that MS and Sony should at least attempt to appeal to casual audiences? That might be the case since both them and most third party publishers have proven time and again they know little they know about what casual gamers want. Might as well keep on doing what you're good at, right? I'm sure they'll keep on believing this as the traditional console industry shrinks even more this generation and mobile gaming increasingly makes them irrelevant.

Edit: I really love the condescending tone you have with the "who know better" thing. You really think Sony and MS have it all figured it out, don't you?

I think Sony and Microsoft will do fine. They're flowing with the industry which is the right thing to do.

Creating a console to target casuals is a moronic move in this day and age. The world is very different today after the explosions of smartphone, tablets, and a generation of children who are being brought up on these devices and know how to work their way around them from ages as early as 3 to 4. Brand is important, and there is a steady amount of traditional gamers who it's sensible to appeal to as the foundation of your platform. This is also where the entire industry is focused so it's important not to isolate yourselves. As time goes on, there is nothing wrong with appealing more to casuals or families with more mainstream advertising and lower prices but there is a time and place for that. The foundation and core of the platform should be focused on the traditional gaming audience because they're not a small audience by any means, and the larger industry is focused on them also. The fact that you think mobile gaming will increasingly make them irrelevant shows how little understanding you have.

And Sony has been doing a fine job. Before the Playstation, no home console managed to appeal to a mainstream audience. Before the Playstation 2, no one had decided to incorporate media features to such an extent and create an entertainment system with gaming as the core. And before the Playstation platform, no one had really tried to appeal to 'casual' gamers. Sony very much knows what they are doing.

Also, Wii was a fluke. Welcome to casual gaming. They have better alternatives elsewhere.

 

[Yagharek]

Freezie keeps harping on about a lack of new ideas in 3d World compared to 3d Land, yet from the footage I've seen there are more new ideas in 3DW than all of freezie's posts on the topic.

 

[Zinthar]

And selling the game to a tenth of them before Christmas isn't too bad all things considered. Let's see where this games sales sit at in a month and how the sales of the other 3D Marios compare up to that point.

We'll see, but the best explanation for the low initial sales is that even many Wii U owners are more interested in playing other games, or the new consoles, than they are in playing a new 3D Mario. That wouldn't bode well for the future of the system.

 

[Replicant]

More people are finally bored of Mario franchise.

 

[Ty4on]

Funny because to the same regular consumer that's probably more interesting and less imposing than another star collector would have been

Galaxy had the highest rating but I wonder if it had the lowest attach rate of any console Mario game. To us it was a system seller but to most people it was another Mario game that they didn't want to buy

Whereas this is a Mario game I feel like more people would buy than Galaxy if that didn't require owning a mostly undesirable console in order to play the game.

Way to put words into my mouth, but ok then. Pikmin 3 had sales that were just 5% lower in a shorter timeframe (two days versus four). The weeks leading up to Pikmin 3 the WiiU lacked any momentum with sales well under 10k every week while the WiiU has had some momentum before 3D World thanks to the bundles in week 44 where sales rose to 40k and stabilized around 15k before 3D World.

My point is the Wii and WiiU audience isn't the same and people want something new. While I'd love Mario 128 what I'd really want is a Mario game that like Mario 64, and Yoshi's Island, and Super Mario World, and Super Mario Bros. 3 does something completely new. 3D World looks great, but it doesn't look exciting.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Mario 64 sold 50000 more copies than Mario 3D World at debut in Japan. Mario 64, one of Nintendo's most anticipated titles ever, for their flagship 3D console.

3D Land sold about 3 times more than 3D World did at launch. On a system that roughly three times more people owned. who'da thunk it I mean srsly so shock

I don't understand how this '3d Mario is system seller and should serve that role exclusively' continues to persist. Especially since the Mario games that actually have been proven to serve that role are precisely the ones you don't like (NSMB)

It's more like something to bolster the lineup. Nintendo would have been better served to focus on getting Mario Kart 8 released rather than 3D World.

Herp derp Mario 64 was a launch title. It released when there was no install base. The fact the 3d world couldn't even outsell a launch title despite it having a install base of 1 million plus is even more damning.

 

[HK-47]

Hopefully this means an end to all of those "haha PS4/XBONE 1st adopters wasted their money; only Nintendo offers real value" articles from media outlets

Yeah all 3 of them.

 

[Ty4on]

Herp derp Mario 64 was a launch title. It released when there was no install base. The fact the 3d world couldn't even outsell a launch title despite it having a install base of 1 million plus is even more damning.

Mario 64 also sold 1.6 million LTD on a system that only sold 5.5 million. Less than one tenth of WiiU owners in Japan picked up 3D world.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

This may not be necessary, but I just want to again go on record as saying that I don't see the need to view this as a referendum against Mario. The numbers on the 3DS may not match the soaring highs of the Wii or DS, but they are still solid. I really don't see why anyone would view this as anything but a referendum against the Wii U.

 

[SaviorX]

This low sales performance provides a shocking reality.

It is going to be sad watching their console efforts continue to be ignored by consumer and crushed by competition.

The time for a turnaround was immediately after launch. At this point it is just embarrassing,

People used to rely on panic Nintendo doing something great and new in the face of adversity, but recently they have just pumped out Mario games that people have finally gotten tired of, no matter if they are good or not. At this point Nintendo failure shows no signs of resurgence, just continued misdirection. We cannot get that confused with incompetence (SM3D World is actually a well-made game).

Wii U will be worth a purchase in 3 or 4 years at $100 but it has no redeeming factor or appeal at this stage in the game. The company's resistance towards change and openness has finally caught up with them....and I am glad. How else will they learn to make more various games the market currently demands? The company hasn't "surprised" in a while.

I don't have to validate my opinion, but I have been a Nintendo fan since NES days. To see them.....selling like trash really makes me sad a little bit. I can't say they don't deserve it but it is unfortunate. They have made great things in the past and recently, but their console vision since 2009 has been terrible. Something has to change.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Ridley in Smash will be just big enough to save Nintendo.

 

[AniHawk]

people are going on like this is a reflection on super mario 3d world. no. this is reflection on the wii u. or specifically, the gamepad. 'new ideas' didn't propel games in the nsmb series to become some of the best selling video games ever. it's that nintendo was unable to come up with a good idea for the system, and unwilling to market what they had.

i'm going to go out on a limb and say that tearaway bombed at retail. that's not a reflection on tearaway not doing 'new things' or pushing the vita. it has everything to do with the vita being an undesirable product and dragging down software with it.

 

[Zinthar]

This may not be necessary, but I just want to again go on record as saying that I don't see the need to view this as a referendum against Mario. The numbers on the 3DS may not match the soaring highs of the Wii or DS, but they are still solid. I really don't see why anyone would view this as anything but a referendum against the Wii U.

Agreed. I think the viewpoint of many gaffers who are non Wii U owners is probably one of "wow, that looks great... but I'm not willing to spend $360 for one game (and the promise of 2-3 more that I might be interested in by 2015)."

 

[Entryhazard]

It'll take more than one great Mario game to dig the Wii U out of its hole.

The issue at this point is how much games are needed to "save" the Wii U. If a finite amount is sufficient to drive the sales at a decent level