Bitter tears over Falco gone, and Sheik gone, is what I'm gonna hear.Branduil said:There's going to be so many tears when it's revealed Sheik isn't in the game...
Thoren said:I hope they focus on making the metagame more balanced than just adding cool new characters.
I get real tired of Falcos, Foxes, and Sheiks!
Chris Michael said:Speaking of Fox/Falco...
Does anyone else think that Wolf or Krystal appearing in the game is basically a given?
Thoren said:I hope they focus on making the metagame more balanced than just adding cool new characters.
I get real tired of Falcos, Foxes, and Sheiks!
Last time that happened, Kirby got ****ed in the ***LegendofJoe said:Balance is the primary design goal of the team doing Brawl. Sakurai said it straight up that he and the team were going to heavily focus on making sure all the characters and levels are as balanced as they can possibly make them, so you're in good hands.
Krystal with her Adventures moveset would make sense and be a logical fresh addition for the StarFox franchise. As for Wolf, I'd rather see him in as an alternate costume for Fox.Chris Michael said:Speaking of Fox/Falco...
Does anyone else think that Wolf or Krystal appearing in the game is basically a given?
I don't recall Sakurai ever promising to balance Melee. Nor, for that matter, do I recall him promising to focus on balance for Brawl. Could we get a reference for that?Wii said:Last time that happened, Kirby got ****ed in the ***
Maxrpg said:Bitter tears over Falco gone, and Sheik gone, is what I'm gonna hear.
All of this is just going to make people want to play Melee over Brawl anyway :lol :lol
Some characters are not returning, this much is known. As far as which characters are likely candidates to be removed...well, Falco pretty much tops the list. He's a "clone", and furthermore a "clone" that could easily be replaced by more diverse members of the franchise. Also, it'd be pretty hard to diversify Falco's moveset.Shinobix said:FALCO gone? that's bullshit
Zeed said:Krystal with her Adventures moveset would make sense and be a logical fresh addition for the StarFox franchise. As for Wolf, I'd rather see him in as an alternate costume for Fox.
I don't recall Sakurai ever promising to balance Melee. Nor, for that matter, do I recall him promising to focus on balance for Brawl. Could we get a reference for that?
However, I do believe that this time things will, on the whole, be more balanced due to the fact that Sakurai is getting all the development time he needs as opposed to how rushed he was for Melee.
Speaking of which, give him a Mr. L costume.Shinobix said:I hope they make fun of him ala Super Paper Mario
TSA said:Fixed.
Zeed said:I don't recall Sakurai ever promising to balance Melee. Nor, for that matter, do I recall him promising to focus on balance for Brawl. Could we get a reference for that?
However, I do believe that this time things will, on the whole, be more balanced due to the fact that Sakurai is getting all the development time he needs as opposed to how rushed he was for Melee.
Zeed said:Some characters are not returning, this much is known. As far as which characters are likely candidates to be removed...well, Falco pretty much tops the list. He's a "clone", and furthermore a "clone" that could easily be replaced by more diverse members of the franchise. Also, it'd be pretty hard to diversify Falco's moveset.
That said, there is no real evidence that he's gone, it just seems logical.
But Falco is like the most cloniest clone in melee. He can be easily replaced as a costume change for Fox.superbank said:Clones are definitely at the top of the list to get cut. Falco is one of the clones that is least likely to get cut (reason: popularity), only being topped by Ganondorf.
Anyway, we have no idea how many characters will be cut, if any. Going from SSB to SSBM no one was removed.
RagnarokX said:But Falco is like the most cloniest clone in melee. He can be easily replaced as a costume change for Fox.
This is utterly false, you have no idea what you're talking about.RagnarokX said:But Falco is like the most cloniest clone in melee. He can be easily replaced as a costume change for Fox.
papercut said:It's not that hard to guess the cuts. Falco will either be gone or substantially changed. Roy/Marth will both be cut, to be replaced by Ike. Pichu's replaced by some other pokemon. Dr. Mario will be cut, to be replaced by Paper Mario if anything. Sheikh's out. Young Link replaced by WW Link.
Basically, they'll update the roster to reflect the Nintendo franchises as they stand today. And even if someone's favorite character gets cut/nerfed, I'm sure they'll find someone else to play. Not the end of the world.
Brobzoid said:I think the hardcore tournies need to realize that this game isn't made for arcade play... Or rather, Nintendo isn't focusing on the tourny style play, rather the millions who bought Melee just to play for fun...
Dr.Hadji said:Everyone would benefit from a more balanced game. A balanced game = better game. Its simple game design.
usea said:This is utterly false, you have no idea what you're talking about.
I'm really sick of the misuse of the word "clones." The only characters who were even close to being clones are mario and doctor mario. Their differences are very small, though still enough to make playing them different experiences. Falco and fox are nowhere near being clones in the sense that they're redundant or that you could replace one with a costume change. They're completely different.
I've met people who thought mario, doc, and luigi were all identical. You're appearing equally ignorant right now.
usea said:This is utterly false, you have no idea what you're talking about.
I'm really sick of the misuse of the word "clones." The only characters who were even close to being clones are mario and doctor mario. Their differences are very small, though still enough to make playing them different experiences. Falco and fox are nowhere near being clones in the sense that they're redundant or that you could replace one with a costume change. They're completely different.
I've met people who thought mario, doc, and luigi were all identical. You're appearing equally ignorant right now.
Kabuki Waq said:but then how will ppl react when Fox gets nerfed?
Agreed. Though I think melee was balanced pretty well, better than the average fighting game.Dr.Hadji said:Everyone would benefit from a more balanced game. A balanced game = better game. Its simple game design.
They have mostly the same animations. Guess what? The game isn't watched, it's played. Their moves look the same, but the characters are not the same. They are not redundant, you cannot replace one with a costume change. It's comments like that which I am calling ignorant, and I think I was pretty clear about it.papercut said:Dude Fox and Falco have the exact same moveset. The first time we all unlocked Falco, that's the first thing we noticed.Yes the moves have different effects so playing them isn't the same, but they're clones. Get over it.
usea said:They have mostly the same animations. Guess what? The game isn't watched, it's played. Their moves look the same, but the characters are not the same. They are not redundant, you cannot replace one with a costume change. It's comments like that which I am calling ignorant, and I think I was pretty clear about it.
Yes, I object to the word clone because it's a poor choice of a word to mean "characters with similar animations." The word clone means or implies identical, which is not the case. Pointing out the extreme ignorance of other people isn't something I should "get over."
usea said:They have mostly the same animations. Guess what? The game isn't watched, it's played. Their moves look the same, but the characters are not the same. They are not redundant, you cannot replace one with a costume change. It's comments like that which I am calling ignorant, and I think I was pretty clear about it.
Yes, I object to the word clone because it's a poor choice of a word to mean "characters with similar animations." The word clone means or implies identical, which is not the case. Pointing out the extreme ignorance of other people isn't something I should "get over."
*down air spikes you into oblivion*Kabuki Waq said:they are similar to the point of being redundant.
GaimeGuy said:*down air spikes you into oblivion*
No, they're not, not even close. This is factual stuff, not an opinion.Kabuki Waq said:they are similar to the point of being redundant.
Yes, people do use it to mean identical. If you read what I typed and quoted in my last 3 posts you would see several examples.papercut said:Nobody uses clone to mean identical in Smash Bros (nobody who's really played the game, anyway). We know they're different as far as how they're played. But don't you think that them having the same moveset, which is totally different from that of every other character in the game, might warrant the description?
Yep. In fact, ryu and ken are even more similar than every "clone" in ssbm except doc and mario who share about the same differences as ryu and ken depending on the game.Holy Order Sol said:Seriously.
This is like saying Ryu and Ken are still the same.
usea said:No, they're not, not even close. This is factual stuff, not an opinion.
Yes, people do use it to mean identical. If you read what I typed and quoted in my last 3 posts you would see several examples.
No, I don't think the fact that their animations are far more similar to eachother as a whole than other characters warrants a description of identical. I think it's a poor word choice, and it's confusing those who think they really are identical, as you can see just a few posts up.
Yep. In fact, ryu and ken are even more similar than every "clone" in ssbm except doc and mario who share about the same differences as ryu and ken depending on the game.
Firestorm said:Mewtwo is a Samus clone. His B attack is a charge beam like Samus' and his tilts are all like black fire instead of red fire! omg!
justchris said:The differences come in the speed and power of the fighters, and that is the reason they play differently.
papercut said:You can't be serious?
Well anyway, it doesn't matter to me if Falco is cut, changed, or if he remains the same. I don't think clones are evil or pointless or whatever, although it would be nice if instead of repeating movesets, the designers at least spend time on new animations.
Some of you are going to have a serious meltdown if Falco does get cut/changed...which would be really amusing to watch
Firestorm said:The fact that you think I'm serious should be sufficient proof that people's Fox/Falco arguments suck. If you want to call them clones because the animations are similar, that's fine. But like usea said, they play so damn differently it doesn't matter. Clones, in my opinion, are good for the game. They give us new characters to play with the least amount of time. Do I want every character to be a clone? No. But I sure hope there are a good amount.
After all, if you're playing Fox and Falco the same way, or Link and Young Link, or any of the others, you're doing something wrong.
WastingPenguins said:Once again you prove you don't know what you're talking about.
Firestorm said:The fact that you think I'm serious should be sufficient proof that people's Fox/Falco arguments suck. If you want to call them clones because the animations are similar, that's fine. But like usea said, they play so damn differently it doesn't matter. Clones, in my opinion, are good for the game. They give us new characters to play with the least amount of time. Do I want every character to be a clone? No. But I sure hope there are a good amount.
After all, if you're playing Fox and Falco the same way, or Link and Young Link, or any of the others, you're doing something wrong.
WastingPenguins said:Once again you prove you don't know what you're talking about.
papercut said:He's talking about the basics here, for which his comment holds true. If I were to get into a discussion about the technical side of smash, I'd want to shoot myself. Keep that stuff away, please.
justchris said:Pretty much. That was a simplification, sure, but every single difference in Fox & Falco can be traced back to the differences in speed, strength & reach. When you adjust one of those, things like air time, animation frames, hit boxes & hit reactions all have to be adjusted to compensate.
Kabuki Waq said:I dont really play with Falco or fox but damn i hate playing against them.