But nobody leaked the DRM plans though (unless you're talking about a few random articles from Kotaku etc.. but we had those for Sony too). MS themselves discussed their plans in May, leakers had nothing to do with it. And what Kinect data collection practices are you talking about?
I don't know. By the time MS got around to telling us everything pitchforks were sharpened, guillotines were built and at least one family sedan was turned over and set on fire. The outrage was ready from the word go.
CBoaT reactions are pretty easy to guess really. Sony diehards praise him for sharing the TRUTHFACTS, hardcore MS apologists hate him with a passion, and the neutral types often recognize his recent agenda (which seems to have started around the XB1 reveal) but understand that his info is good most of the time. I don't mind the leaks, but his spin on things in the last year makes him come off as some sort of disgruntled MS employee. Hopefully the latest post is a sign of things to come as I'd like the have the old CBoaT back.
When did they get around to telling us everything though? E3?
Because at the reveal it never came up, and it only came up in interviews after, IIRC?
That's true. Also, we've always been at war with Eurasia.(It is truly stunning how short memory evidently is. At this rate, in another 6 months, no one will even remember there was a MS DRM scheme.)
GotG = Halo 5 Guardians, maybe you're part of a team of some sort like in Halo Reach.
Iron Man = Master Chief who makes a cameo in Halo 5 or joins the Spartan "Guardians"?
Either way, it looks like posting a pic of Guardians was his way of foreshadowing the reveal that Halo 5 is named Halo 5 Guardians. Perhaps there's more in there as well, perhaps not.
That may be so, but in response to your original post that I originally responded to:
I would argue that leakers didn't do anything to help MS. The huge outrage from gamers once MS confirmed the leaks/rumours, helped MS. The leakers were just creating speculation up until that point. If MS decided to pull the plug at the very last minute and pretended that the DRM never existed, then the leakers could be credited with helping MS.
You tried to be neutral but then fell off the wagon as you went along and just reacted like a MS apologist as you say.
Read the Watchmen.
I dont think is from CBOAT, doesnt look like his cryptic style. I tried though:
Fanboy [banning?] thread this morning, silly post about MS. This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face.
The threads are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally [flow] over, all the vermin will drown.
The accumulated filth of all their post and fanboy drivel will [??? about their waist?] and all the fanboys and gaffers will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down and whisper "LOL, No."
*edit* oh crap just notice this is basically Rorschach monologue from Watchmen, been a awhile since I saw the movie
Then that one employee is disrespecting the hard work and effort of his co-workers and colleagues. Games are a collaborative creative effort, and one disgruntled worker shouldn't be able to undermine the work of the rest of his team.
If someone feels Microsoft doesn't derve the respect then go ahead and leak.
It's called Karma.
You are wrong on so many accounts.
Also I believed CBOAT, even when he was wrong and still believe his rumors. Sorry to annoy you.
Read the Watchmen.
That may be so, but in response to your original post that I originally responded to:
I would argue that leakers didn't do anything to help MS. The huge outrage from gamers once MS confirmed the leaks/rumours, helped MS. The leakers were just creating speculation up until that point. If MS decided to pull the plug at the very last minute and pretended that the DRM never existed, then the leakers could be credited with helping MS.
Yes it is, because you're just creating an arbitrary distinction between forum leakers and those who leak information to games websites.Read through my other posts in this thread, and then get back to me. What I'm saying isn't as crazy and revisionist as you may think it is.
When did they get around to telling us everything though? E3?
Because at the reveal it never came up, and it only came up in interviews after, IIRC?
No. The leaks had given us all a context in which to view MS's announcements when they started coming. They are what allowed us to read between the lines. They had set the stage for what would come at the May event and at E3. People were ready to rebel against what they were doing and when the official announcements came, that's what they did.
The big question about E3 wasn't even about what MS was doing- it was about whether or not Sony would follow suit.
You either weren't here a lot last spring or you weren't paying much attention.
That only works if you believe that Microsoft would have announced the details of their DRM in advance without the leaks. If no-one had known about their plans for DRM, they could have delayed announcing them until close to the launch, when it would be too late to change anything and people would have already made their minds up about which console to get. Leaking the information may not have helped MS but it certainly helped us.
CBoaT reactions are pretty easy to guess really. Sony diehards praise him for sharing the TRUTHFACTS, hardcore MS apologists hate him with a passion, and the neutral types often recognize his recent agenda (which seems to have started around the XB1 reveal) but understand that his info is good most of the time. I don't mind the leaks, but his spin on things in the last year makes him come off as some sort of disgruntled MS employee. Hopefully the latest post is a sign of things to come as I'd like the have the old CBoaT back.
Yes. I believe it was Keighley of all people interviewing Donny.
People seem to really have short memories. Did we all forget Adam Orth? That was in April (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=534951), right around the time the rumors started picking up steam. 2 whole month prior.
I think so. People were already in "fuck this shit" mode by the time we got details.
He got his job back at MS, so it's all happy leaks from now on. That disgruntled MS employee is one of the silliest theories I've heard about Cboat.
He got his job back at MS, so it's all happy leaks from now on. That disgruntled MS employee is one of the silliest theories I've heard about Cboat.
Right. And you don't think they'd have done that anyway, even if there were no leaks before hand? If there were absolutely no leaks, and MS completely surprised everyone in May/June with the DRM announcement you think there wouldn't be any sort of backlash and MS would just go through with their plan?
As far as I'm concerned the exact same thing would have happened. Gamers would have reacted negatively and eventually forced MS to reverse their decision. So I'll say it again, in this particular scenario, leakers didn't do anything to help MS.
But nobody leaked the DRM plans though
He got his job back at MS, so it's all happy leaks from now on. That disgruntled MS employee is one of the silliest theories I've heard about Cboat.
I personally believe the "it's multiple people" theory controlling the account.
But the whole disgruntled MS employee talk was laughable.
Sillier than the MistermediaX theory that he is ekiM/GAF-mod who wants to "damage" MS reputation? That was crazy, even for him.
Oh, so you're willing to acknowledge that there were leaks now? When this discussion started, you were claiming that there were none.
Maybe the disgruntled employee is one of the multiple people. Hehe.
The Ekim drama actually feeds the multiple people theory. That was crazy how MisterX was trying to damage Ekim afterwards, though. Kevin Dent was being a real douche too.
Woah, woah, woah, don't be rude....the word douche is much too good for Kevin Dent.
Um no. I thought we'd already established that my "leaks" and your "leaks" are two different things. I used leaks in my post to refer to your leaks - i.e. rumours circulating in the press. I never once claimed that there were none of your leaks, I claimed that there were none of my leaks. This should be clear if you've read all of my previous posts
Leaks were everywhere last spring, and came in all forms, shapes and sizes. A lot of those "rumors circulating in the press" started right here with some of the usual insiders. GAF>internet>GAF.
I would argue that leakers didn't do anything to help MS. The huge outrage from gamers once MS confirmed the leaks/rumours, helped MS. The leakers were just creating speculation up until that point. If MS decided to pull the plug at the very last minute and pretended that the DRM never existed, then the leakers could be credited with helping MS.
Right. And you don't think they'd have done that anyway, even if there were no leaks before hand? If there were absolutely no leaks, and MS completely surprised everyone in May/June with the DRM announcement you think there wouldn't be any sort of backlash and MS would just go through with their plan?
As far as I'm concerned the exact same thing would have happened. Gamers would have reacted negatively and eventually forced MS to reverse their decision. So I'll say it again, in this particular scenario, leakers didn't do anything to help MS.
Browsing the last couple pages, it sounds like Historian-GAF needs to compile the sequence of events over the DRM from last year.
I was a lurker at the time, and I definitely remember the Sweet Billy tweets, Kotaku and CBOAT info coming out well ahead of any official MS source. The aftermath was game journos asking questions of MS reps, who acknowledged the DRM and Kinect info was true, but had no answers on how any of it really worked. There was the big double down by Mattrick (let them play Xbox 360), which led to the first big 180, likely prompted by early pre-order numbers.
The Ekim drama actually feeds the multiple people theory. That was crazy how MisterX was trying to damage Ekim afterwards, though. Kevin Dent was being a real douche too.
Right, ok. Let's just say that I agree with you for a moment. And that yes, there were loads of insiders. Of both types I still stand by my main point:
I don't really see why we're even continuing to argue about the definition of an insider when that wasn't even my point in the first place. If you have nothing else to say with regards to my main point, that's fine, let's just move on and agree to disagree, because I'd rather not keep going round and round in circles discussing the definition of an insider.
If there were absolutely no leaks, and MS completely surprised everyone in May/June with the DRM announcement you think there wouldn't be any sort of backlash and MS would just go through with their plan?
Can someone tell me what the image in the OP of this thread, and today's Halo 5 announcement have to do with one another?
Actually, you're the one that tried to put leaks and insiders into different buckets. I don't really care to define the distinctions and am quite happy to lump them all together. Inside information is inside information. Leaks are leaks. We had quite a lot of all of it last spring.
As for your main point, which I understand to be this:
I disagree for the following reasons:
- MS wouldn't have completely surprised everybody in May/June. Even with the leaks flying around for months prior, they were intentionally vague about DRM, always online and the Family Sharing plans initially.
- The leaks were what empowered consumers and journos alike to question what MS was doing at the May event and at E3.
- Without that subtext, the hard questions wouldn't have started hitting in full force until after E3. The abysmal preorder #'s that led to MS' reversals may not have been as abysmal, as the public would not have been nearly so well informed in June as the leaks allowed them to be.
- MS came into E3 already knowing that people were not happy with the direction they were headed in. The quick turnaround in the week after E3 proved that plans were already in place to pivot on the policies, if necessary.
- None of this would have been the case if the May event and E3 had been everybody's first, vague taste of what MS was planning. It may well have been July or August by the time the furor had reached critical mass, and by then, they'd have been in serious trouble.
We can agree to disagree at any point you want. Can't really outline my thoughts in any more detail anyway.
February 6, 2013
The next Xbox: Always online, no second-hand games, 50GB Blu-ray discs and new Kinect
http://www.edge-online.com/news/the...hand-games-50gb-blu-ray-discs-and-new-kinect/
I'm not going to go find all the gaf posts, but this was a debate for months before it was officially announced.
I wish Cboat had leaked that my Halo 4 game save would get corrupted while I was halfway through the campaign on Legendary solo.
...SPDIF?
My friend?
I suggest you go back a couple of pages, make a note of your original statements, then read your most recent posts.
Then let us know if the distance between the goal posts covers a small country.
You guys are going around in circles because you keep moving the goal.
That's true, I did. But you still continued arguing with me about it despite apparently not caring. Although that might have been more down to confusion (mainly because of my posts) than anything else.
this is painful
Why? The arguing continued, but it was down to my posts.