That's damning with faint praise.
The relative futility of Sony's 1st party franchises is another topic altogether, though.
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So why isn't little big planet 1/2 a more popular game?
- Thread starter neutralgamer02
- Start date
That's damning with faint praise.
The relative futility of Sony's 1st party franchises is another topic altogether, though.
From my own experience; while I liked the game(s) (and owned both the PS3 and PSP games); the main problem was that it was one of those games that tries to do multiple things and either doesn't do them good or one aspect is better than the other one.
The main "selling point" of the LittleBigPlanet games was always the "create, share, play" aspect of it. Problem with that was that like in similar games the tools are not easy/fast enough for the general public to get used to and require too much experimenting. The actual sharing part usually ended in like looking for a needle in haystack. There were some really great stuff created, but only if you actually knew about it or were told about it. Outside that you'll end looking and playing the 1,000th "here's a level with a bunch of bubbles and crappy stickers to get that trophy".
The single playing side was also mixed too. Because while the levels were varied enough, the floaty controls and the whole concept of the game (use stickers, grab and move stuff) didn't made a good/quick/easy to get into 2D game so those looking for something "like Mario"; just weren't going to find it.
The main "selling point" of the LittleBigPlanet games was always the "create, share, play" aspect of it. Problem with that was that like in similar games the tools are not easy/fast enough for the general public to get used to and require too much experimenting. The actual sharing part usually ended in like looking for a needle in haystack. There were some really great stuff created, but only if you actually knew about it or were told about it. Outside that you'll end looking and playing the 1,000th "here's a level with a bunch of bubbles and crappy stickers to get that trophy".
The single playing side was also mixed too. Because while the levels were varied enough, the floaty controls and the whole concept of the game (use stickers, grab and move stuff) didn't made a good/quick/easy to get into 2D game so those looking for something "like Mario"; just weren't going to find it.
LBP was a big focus of a couple E3s and meant to be a system seller. I can't help but think Sony should be disappointed.
Why do you assume people are looking for something "like mario"?
because that's the benchmark by which all platformers are ultimately compared?
gutter_trash
Banned
it's the selling point of the game through its trailers.
But even I , a lifelong gamer, went uh man creation mode is too too long and requires too much planning to get anything done for a medium gamer
It's hard to have evidence at all. We'd first need the sales LBP1 after a year to compare with LBP2 after a year. There might not even have a backslash.
The only explanations I can make are the ones I can understand. Like bad marketing, problems in-game (like the whole community aspect) and in third, the possible break into the promise of an ongoing game by releasing a sequel. But I believe more in the game being badly marketing, therefore breaking people expectations and resulting is bad word of mouth. And this is important because while good marketing is detrimental to "start the sales", word of mouth is the most important things for "continuining sales" and it even influences your sequels' success. Still, we'd need at least comparable numbers to even truly talk about a backslash. I also wonder how much a new IP on PS3 was supposed to sell anyways. People giving LBP a reputation of "bad sales" because they compare it with Super Mario Galaxy really have no clue about videogame business.
Really? Do you compare Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts to Mario? Mega Man to Mario?
PS3 has a fine attach rate. Better than Wii's, nearly equivalent to 360 given a year lag in launch.
But yes, less people own PS3s.
That's why I said "like Mario". I don't assume, but the game was "sold" to many as the "playing a 2D game like Mario". Same way many think 2D platformer = Mario = every 2D game is like Mario.
Plus I could've said any other name; chose Mario since is the easiest one that people recognize. Like how every time people ask for recommendations of 2D platformers "like Mario" on 360 or PS3, LittleBigPlanet is one of the first recommendations; even when the games play nothing alike. Or the usual "my girlfriend likes Mario, what should I get her that is similar on PS3" Get her LBP!!.
Thread should have ended after this answer. Impressive post.
neutralgamer02
Member
SMG and LBP are totally different games. I have no clue why you would compare them to each other except for the fact that they are both platformers. It would be similar to comparing NSMB to SMG.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Does the average game consumer know/give a shit about Ghosts n Goblins? Come on.
NullPointer
Member
I never saw enough user made levels that impressed, at least when I was putting solid time into the game. The most popular and highest rated levels tended to be art-house prettiness or experimental stuff with little gameplay, or attempts at gameplay with only one or two elements actually working well in the end. Its the difference between sitting down and reading through some comics and paging through an artist's sketchpad.
That and jumping and swinging still felt off.
On paper its one of the greatest things ever, but its too complicated and time consuming a task to create even marginally interesting levels that you couldn't burn through in 30 seconds. A less ambitious but easier and meatier create tool would've had more potential imo.
That and jumping and swinging still felt off.
On paper its one of the greatest things ever, but its too complicated and time consuming a task to create even marginally interesting levels that you couldn't burn through in 30 seconds. A less ambitious but easier and meatier create tool would've had more potential imo.
Metalmurphy
Member
THE selling point? Hardly.
It's one of the selling points. The game has been advertised as PLAY CREATE SHARE and if any of those points was advertised more then the others it was the SHARE, more specifically playing shared creations, not actually creating them.
I'm not the one they're trying to convince here, it's everyone else.
I guess that's true, but it still seems like a ridiculous limitation on developers. I never saw anyone criticize Limbo for not having the same jump as Mario. Halo and Call of Duty don't move/aim/jump the same. You can still recommend Call of Duty to a Halo player.
Maybe if LBP's levels were designed like Mario3, and you're constantly falling between a small chasm, it would be annoying. But the jumps work fine in the context of the game, which includes a lot of hanging and swinging.
My thoughts as well. I bought the first LBP and tried to love it as some others have stated in this thread. I just couldn't. The controls, the physics... were terrible. I tend to loathe the games based on a physics engine like Havok or similar: they always feel unresponsive and unpredictable. Even in cases where the physics engine affects the gameplay only slightly (Dark Souls, as an example) I find that the worst problems I have with the controls are ALWAYS related to such physics. They fucking ruin the games more than help. The instant I see the Havok logo while the game is loading, the instant I start to feel buyers' remorse.
Now, in a platform game where any jump you make might lead your character to its death, that Havok physics, singlehandedly, destroy any precision you can have. Every jump feels so unpredictable, so floaty... I just get frustrated and ultimately bored. LBP is one of the worst offenders I have met of terrible floaty and unpredictable controls. In a platform game, that's its death. The game is just frustrating and boring to play, the system with the 3 planes of gameplay is bothersome and serves no real purpose, the stages are too long, and tend to be devoid of any real challenge due to the bad controls: most of the time you pass the few difficult jumps just out of luck, not because you get any better. The moment I realized this, I just stopped playing.
Finally, I don't care for creating content. I'm not good at it, and I have little time to play, not to say to struggle with a level editor. Ultimately, I didn't buy the second and won't buy anyone new they release.
Perhaps none of those factors really matters when it comes to sell the product, I'm talking about my frustrations with the game. What is sure is that those factors didn't helped.
Acrylic7
Member
to me LBP2 came out to quickly.
I would have had MM work on something else in the meantime, then develop LBP2 for the ps4's launch. With no anti gravity Sackboy.
I personally didn't need another LPB at the moment. The first game had me completely satisfied for a long ass time. VERY long ass time.
I would have had MM work on something else in the meantime, then develop LBP2 for the ps4's launch. With no anti gravity Sackboy.
I personally didn't need another LPB at the moment. The first game had me completely satisfied for a long ass time. VERY long ass time.
Are you criticizing the marketability of LBP here, or the game mechanics? Which part of the comparison doesn't hold?
XANDER CAGE
Member
The marketability. Sorry, I got you mixed up with the person who was suggesting that all Sony products are aimed at the same demographic.
neutralgamer02
Member
I didn't say every game was targeted to the same demographic. You simply assumed that. I said:
Sony games target different demographics, but in a specific range. There is no game sony has come out with that targets little kids like nintendo. It is usually 13+.
Is that why LBP2 sold so much and this thread exists?
Eyepet, but aside from that, do you have any idea how many games Sony has published?
Do you mean just PS3 games?
XANDER CAGE
Member
Eyepet? Sly Cooper? Ratchet & Clank? Hell, I'd even argue in the opposite direction - no way that Killzone is aimed at kids. Killzone is aimed at older teens and adults.
eXistor
Member
I love the general idea of LBP, I just don't like the controls one bit. I've tried both games but not once did I feel any connection with it like I do with better platformers. I do love the whole "make your own game" philosophy behind it but it's not something I'd ever put any time and effort into.
First post wins again. Play 2D Mario or Super Meat Boy and those physics are tight. LBP is floaty and the 2.5 shit going into the background is garbage.
1. Came out for PS3 at a time when it was not a platform for casuals at all due to price.
2. My mom thought sackboy was creepy looking. I don't think the completely black eyes of the standard sackboy are helping Sony's efforts to make him into a kid's mascot.
3. Of those who did end up playing it (say, because a friend is a gamer and had them play it), the super floaty nature probably turned off a bunch. My girlfriend had a huge problem playing levels with me. She just couldn't nail any non-trivial jumps, a problem she never had with 2D Mario games. The multiple layers may not have helped either. In general, the difficulty of the game for those unable to deal with physics-based platforming was ridiculous.
2. My mom thought sackboy was creepy looking. I don't think the completely black eyes of the standard sackboy are helping Sony's efforts to make him into a kid's mascot.
3. Of those who did end up playing it (say, because a friend is a gamer and had them play it), the super floaty nature probably turned off a bunch. My girlfriend had a huge problem playing levels with me. She just couldn't nail any non-trivial jumps, a problem she never had with 2D Mario games. The multiple layers may not have helped either. In general, the difficulty of the game for those unable to deal with physics-based platforming was ridiculous.
neutralgamer02
Member
Well, I thought LBP hadn't sold well before I started this thread, but it actually has. I have pointed that out through the thread, but people, including you, seem to miss it. LBP2 has only been out for less than a year. It will sell a lot more when it hits greatest hits like LBP.
I was focusing on PS3 titles, but I have yet to see a sony title specifically for children 7 - 13. Sony titles usually targets some group 13+.
Those titles are broad range games. I am in my early 20s and I just played a R&C game. That is why I said 13+. Also, I said SOME group 13+. That doesn't mean a game like killzone will target everyone 13+, but a demographic above age 13.
What Nintendo games target mainly target ages 7-13?
Yeah.
I guess that's part of the disappointment of some. The controls work in the context of the game and end working (I guess) the way they intended. I still recommended the game to many and got a few into liking it, but never did it in the "well if you like Mario", but because of the create-aspects of it.
If anything, a separate topic should be why Sony's concept of "play, create, share" didn't took off as much as was expected. ModNation was "like Mario Kart" and had tons of content, customization and great online aspects. But like LBP, there were some ..extra-added learning curve, with the controls.
EDIT:
Darn, this thread reminded me that K-mart has this LBP2 bundle that is the recently released special edition with all the content and a sackboy-plush; for $30.
neutralgamer02
Member
Did, I say a nintendo game targets 7-13? I said other companies. I meant ubisoft's petz games and barbie games other companies put out. Sony doesn't target that demographic, which is why I said LBP isn't targeted to kids, but really everyone 13+.
XANDER CAGE
Member
I'm also in my early 20s and I like Transformers and the original Dragon Ball. That doesn't mean that those weren't aimed at kids. Eyepet and things like Sly Cooper are pretty clearly aimed at younger folks.
To Far Away Times
Member
Little Big Planet is probably Sony's best game; but the most important part of a platformer, the one thing you absolutely have to nail, is the jump mechanic. And in LBP, the jump mechanic is all wrong.
neutralgamer02
Member
Dragonball/Z was mainly popular with 13-18, but a lot of 18-20s watched it too. Your not that much older than that. Transformers is targeted to 7-18 I would guess, but with the movies that have recently come out, I would say anyone could really watch it if they are interested in transformer. These shows aren't like power rangers that really target only kids.
Sly Cooper is targeted to everyone, but leans towards kids. Eyepet, I guess is targeted to mostly kids. Another game I would say is targeted to mostly kids is invizimals. LBP with it's complex level editor isn't targeted towards little kids.
The controls are floaty, and the physics mean that the level designs have to be made in such a way that if one performs the most general imitation of the action that they're supposed to do in a level, they'll pass it no problem. Little precision and little risk make for a game where jumping over a danger zone can be yawning. I like and have beaten the Little Big Planets, but those problems are there, and like somebody else said, 'floaty controls' are literally the first two words that many people will think of when talking about these games' problems.
sixteen-bit
Member
Games where you create levels have limited appeal. Perhaps they should have focused on the fact that there are pre-made levels and single-player content.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Where are all of these arbitrary years coming from?
Why I think LBP2 didn't do as well
- too similar to the first game
- even more complicated editor putting people off ( e.g me)
- why spend hours and hours making a semi decent level when some trophy hoarder makes a "10 trophys in 2 minutes" type level and gets more hits.
- bad controls and gameplay not fixed from the first game
- bad release date, think it was January, right after Christmas when no one has any money left to buy games. IIRC it was delayed a few months too which may have killed some hype.
- too similar to the first game
- even more complicated editor putting people off ( e.g me)
- why spend hours and hours making a semi decent level when some trophy hoarder makes a "10 trophys in 2 minutes" type level and gets more hits.
- bad controls and gameplay not fixed from the first game
- bad release date, think it was January, right after Christmas when no one has any money left to buy games. IIRC it was delayed a few months too which may have killed some hype.