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[FunnyBunny]

I'm impressed with the tech, but the price is a major concern.

I cannot justify spending more on a handheld than a dedicated console.

 

[PoliceCop]

The N64 was also more powerful then the PS1 (and would have destroyed it if Nintendo had used CDs).

Kinda debatable. The best looking PS1 games look better than the cream of the 64 crop.

 

[Jeels]

I doubt that Sony has actually settled on a final price at this point but I feel like if it were anything approaching reasonabilty they would have dropped more of a hint than "it will be affordable" in order to disrupt the 3DS launch. I'm thinking $399 for the baseline model and price determined by carrier for the 3G model.

And they'll probably be taking a major loss on each unit even at that price.

Spoiler

I love them for it though

Why would this thing cost more than $399 to manufacture? That's simply not possible, ridiculous even.

 

[yurinka]

$399 wifi,, $499 wifi+3g

If we're lucky and no 3g SKU exists.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

Hmmm...first, I wanted to say it was high time for new portables to come out.

PSP and DS have been collecting dust...

Still, if the NGP nears 400 it's done for. I simply cannot see spending that much money on a portable system.

The other thing I'm worried about is the relative quiet from the developers. Sure, some execs have seen the specs already and 'may' be planning something. This may take some steam out of the 3DS's sales, but I would've preferred a proper reveal with more game videos than a bunch of names on a list.

My guess? I HOPE to hell it's 299-349. 399+? = :'(

 

[Raistlin]

Interesting how a generation can change things. Before this generation, Nintendo delivered more cutting-edge tech than Sony, and yet... here we are.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Why would this thing cost more than $399 to manufacture? That's simply not possible, ridiculous even.

Um, I'm not sure how you can possibly say that. This device is more advanced than any handheld (I'm talking phones and tablets too) currently on the market and has a custom GPU. I haven't seen a cost breakdown but I'd place all my bets on NGP running well over $400 to manufacture.

 

[Yoboman]

Um, I'm not sure how you can possibly say that. This device is more advanced than any handheld (I'm talking phones and tablets too) currently on the market and has a custom GPU. I haven't seen a cost breakdown but I'd place all my bets on NGP running well over $400 to manufacture.

I doubt there are any systems out there costing more than $400 to manufacture. Not even Ipad costs that much

 

[charlequin]

Wasn't the DS only 150 dollars? Maybe 179.99 (but that might be the DS Lite.)
Gamecube was 200.

It launched higher than the current GameCube, which was down at that point to $99.

 

[Saint Gregory]

I doubt there are any systems out there costing more than $400 to manufacture. Not even Ipad costs that much

I'm not sure what kind of comparison that is given Apple's incredible design efficiency. I'm not saying that Sony sucks at efficiency but it's still pretty apples to oranges. But like I said I don't know what NGP's cost breakdown is but compared to the original PSP at launch it seems even more bleeding edge in terms of tech and at the time the PSP cost well over $300 to produce (sorry that was the only source I found via google). So it's not hard to imagine NGP going over that amount and Sony has already said that they will sell it at a loss.

 

[Elixist]

I'm calling $400. $300 is not enough for the specs this has, and $400 is the same price as the most expensive iPod touch, so it would fit the "affordable price that's appropriate for the handheld gaming space" target.

My guess as well or 350. 300 would be a day one and 350 or 400 prob day one as well dependingl

 

[linkboy]

Kinda debatable. The best looking PS1 games look better than the cream of the 64 crop.

Which ones, if you don't mind me asking.

 

[charlequin]

But like I said I don't know what NGP's cost breakdown is but compared to the original PSP at launch it seems even more bleeding edge in terms of tech

It's really not, at least in the most important areas. The CPU and GPU are somewhat customized but they're both based on extremely widespread, common chip designs. Nothing in this is really a crazy or unusual feature individually.

 

[AshMcCool]

Kinda debatable. The best looking PS1 games look better than the cream of the 64 crop.

Nooooooooooo way. Thats just a lie. Just look at Rares N64-Games. And there is more.

 

[DevilWillcry]

It's Sony, I love them but they usually fuck up on the pricing. So I'll believe it when I see it. $299 would be a great launch price point, but I'm thinking it's going to be $399.

 

[Saint Gregory]

It's really not, at least in the most important areas. The CPU and GPU are somewhat customized but they're both based on extremely widespread, common chip designs. Nothing in this is really a crazy or unusual feature individually.

I really can't agree with that. The PSP was groundbreaking in that it made a current gen console play portable at the time but aside from the beautiful screen and UMD what else was really special about it? This new system has two multitouch surfaces (one of them being a 5" OLED), motion sensors, GPS, cameras, mics, 3G and I'm sure other features that haven't even been revealed yet (internal storage?). I don't see how it can be argued that NGP not more advanced compared to current portables than the PSP was when it was released.

 

[Yoboman]

I really can't agree with that. The PSP was groundbreaking in that it made a current gen console play portable at the time but aside from the beautiful screen and UMD what else was really special about it? This new system has two multitouch surfaces (one of them being a 5" OLED), motion sensors, GPS, cameras, mics, 3G and I'm sure other features that haven't even been revealed yet (internal storage?). I don't see how it can be argued that NGP not more advanced compared to current portables than the PSP was when it was released.

You think those elements are that expensive? You just listed a bunch of things that basically every device on the market has. Touch screen functionality, cameras, GPS? Really? And a good few have gyro. Every Apple product has the features you listed. Whereas with PSP, it was WELL beyond the technology of anything released, it was a custom CPU and GPU combo that put everything else to shame plus the UMD, so initial manufacturing would've costed wayyy more. And everyone expected a $400 pricetag for PSP as well.

PSP2 is basically a cell phone from a year or two in the future, it'll probably be equivelant to Apple's Iphone 5 next year. You think Apple will be launching a product that costs $400 + to manufacture?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

You think those elements are that expensive? You just listed a bunch of things that basically every device on the market has. Touch screen functionality, cameras, GPS? Really? And a good few have gyro. Every Apple product has the features you listed. Whereas with PSP, it was WELL beyond the technology of anything released, it was a custom CPU and GPU combo that put everything else to shame plus the UMD, so initial manufacturing would've costed wayyy more. And everyone expected a $400 pricetag for PSP as well.

PSP2 is basically a cell phone from a year or two in the future, it'll probably be equivelant to Apple's Iphone 5 next year. You think Apple will be launching a product that costs $400 + to manufacture?

I'm pretty sure iPhones are fairly expensive, though. they sell at $199/$299/whatever because the price is heavily subsidized by your carrier. Same with Android phones and all smart phones, really. No carriers around to subsidize the PSP2.

 

[Yoboman]

I'm pretty sure iPhones are fairly expensive, though. they sell at $199/$299/whatever because the price is heavily subsidized by your carrier. Same with Android phones and all smart phones, really. No carriers around to subsidize the PSP2.

Iphone 4 costs about $180 to manufacture

 

[NomarTyme]

Iphone 4 costs about $180 to manufacture

$600 to buy.

 

[H_Prestige]

$600 to buy.

Irrelevant. Sony doesn't sell playstations with that kind of mark up. They've always been sold at a loss actually.

 

[Yoboman]

$600 to buy.

So?

 

[DevilWillcry]

Irrelevant. Sony doesn't sell playstations with that kind of mark up. They've always been sold at a loss actually.

Maybe under Kutaragi, Kaz is trying to make Sony's gaming divison profitable.

 

[H_Prestige]

Maybe under Kutaragi, Kaz is trying to make Sony's gaming divison profitable.

Selling a $600 psp2 will not result in any profit whatsoever. Selling it at $300 can.

 

[NomarTyme]

Irrelevant. Sony doesn't sell playstations with that kind of mark up. They've always been sold at a loss actually.

Got to still factor in the R & D along with the IOS.

 

[DevilWillcry]

Selling a $600 psp2 will not result in any profit whatsoever. Selling it at $300 can.

Let's say the PSP2 costs around $250 to produce (just an estimate based on what we know about it). Couldn't Sony sell it at $300 and make a decent profit margin?

 

[Yoboman]

Maybe under Kutaragi, Kaz is trying to make Sony's gaming divison profitable.

So why are we assuming that PSP2 costs out the ass then?

I doubt it's significantly more than Iphone 4, probably somewhere between Iphone 4's $180 and Ipad's $260 which would put it in the right range for a $249 launch price.

 

[Baki]

So why are we assuming that PSP2 costs out the ass then?

I doubt it's significantly more than Iphone 4, probably somewhere between Iphone 4's $180 and Ipad's $260 which would put it in the right range for a $249 launch price.

They'd probably take a loss @ $249.99 simply because you're not factoring manufacturing, shipping and the small retailer margin. Manufacturing for the NGP will be more pricier than the iPhone 4 because its a new device.

 

[DevilWillcry]

They'd probably take a loss @ $249.99 simply because you're not factoring manufacturing, shipping and the small retailer margin. Manufacturing for the NGP will be more pricier than the iPhone 4 because its a new device.

How about if they sold it at $300?

 

[Saint Gregory]

You think those elements are that expensive? You just listed a bunch of things that basically every device on the market has. Touch screen functionality, cameras, GPS? Really? And a good few have gyro. Every Apple product has the features you listed. Whereas with PSP, it was WELL beyond the technology of anything released, it was a custom CPU and GPU combo that put everything else to shame plus the UMD, so initial manufacturing would've costed wayyy more. And everyone expected a $400 pricetag for PSP as well.

PSP2 is basically a cell phone from a year or two in the future, it'll probably be equivelant to Apple's Iphone 5 next year. You think Apple will be launching a product that costs $400 + to manufacture?

Where did I say any of those elements are expensive? I was simply listing the extra components the NGP has over the OG PSP which do add to the overall cost of the device in comparative time periods. We can argue about this all night but comparing the NGP to a smart phone or even a tablet is silly. There is not smart phone today with those capabilities and by the time one comes out the cost to produce the NGP will have dropped considerably.

 

[Yoboman]

They'd probably take a loss @ $249.99 simply because you're not factoring manufacturing, shipping and the small retailer margin. Manufacturing for the NGP will be more pricier than the iPhone 4 because its a new device.

Well they said they are "hoping" to make a profit so it makes it sound like whatever the price is, it will border closely to the manufacturing costs.

 

[Baki]

How about if they sold it at $300?

$300 IMO is completely doable. (Especially with more expensive SKU's)

Well they said they are "hoping" to make a profit so it makes it sound like whatever the price is, it will border closely to the manufacturing costs.

They could do a $249 SKU and then subsidise any losses on that with more expensive SKU's.

PS: I'm attacking this from a purely profitability standpoint. If they're willing to take a small loss, $249 is doable. But I guess any money saved on selling a unit can be put towards marketing.

 

[Yoboman]

Where did I say any of those elements are expensive? I was simply listing the extra components the NGP has over the OG PSP which do add to the overall cost of the device in comparative time periods. We can argue about this all night but comparing the NGP to a smart phone or even a tablet is silly. There is not smart phone today with those capabilities and by the time one comes out the cost to produce the NGP will have dropped considerably.

Well you've been suggesting it costs $400 to manufacture, and you justified that by listing a bunch of things you could find in a standard Iphone 4, Ipad or heck... even a Nintendo DS. The expensive parts will be the CPU/GPU and screen (though mass produced OLEDs should come out cheaper than LCDs). My argument is that these parts are not more advanced than what was in PSP, speaking relatively, and will probably cost less due to the fact that they are a standard mobile technology.

 

[Lonely1]

Iphone 4 costs about $180 to manufacture

- People underestimate the other parts of a handled consoles.

For example, the OpenPandora guys states that, by far, their biggest cost of them for manufacturing the console are the user inputs and the added board complexity added by them. They had to delay the project for nearly a year because their analog had weren't performing like how they expected and had to use much higher quality materials and manufacturing progress in order to have them of reasonable quality (Original shipment had 10%+ of failure rate). Stuff like that, Apple doesn't how to deal with.

Also, look at the tear-down of the 3DS and compare it to the iPhone 4. Clearly that the 3DS is a more complex machine and way more complex to manufacture, with a lot more components.

- I know how everyone say that Apple is ripping its costumers with 80% profit margin or whatever. But every other major company price it's products in a similar price tier. Why none tries to undercuts them? If a product is significantly cheaper, is of significant lower quality also (hardware wise).

 

[Baki]

- People underestimate the other parts of a handled consoles.

For example, the OpenPandora guys states that, by far, their biggest cost of them for manufacturing the console are the user inputs and the added board complexity added by them. They had to delay the project for nearly a year because their analog had weren't performing like how they expected and had to use much higher quality materials and manufacturing progress in order to have them of reasonable quality (Original shipment had 10%+ of failure rate). Stuff like that, Apple doesn't how to deal with.

Also, look at the tear-down of the 3DS and compare it to the iPhone 4. Clearly that the 3DS is a more complex machine and way more complex to manufacture, with a lot more components.

- I know how everyone say that Apple is ripping its costumers with 80% profit margin or whatever. But every other major company price it's products in a similar price tier. Why none tries to undercuts them? If a product is significantly cheaper, is of significant lower quality also.

I agree regarding the assembly cost. I still think $299 is feasible though.

 

[Yoboman]

- People underestimate the other parts of a handled consoles.

For example, the OpenPandora guys states that, by far, their biggest cost of them for manufacturing the console are the user inputs and the added board complexity added by them. They had to delay the project for nearly a year because their analog had weren't performing like how they expected and had to use much higher quality materials and manufacturing progress in order to have them of reasonable quality (Original shipment had 10%+ of failure rate). Stuff like that, Apple doesn't how to deal with.

Also, look at the tear-down of the 3DS and compare it to the iPhone 4. Clearly that the 3DS is a more complex machine and way more complex to manufacture, with a lot more components.

- I know how everyone say that Apple is ripping its costumers with 80% profit margin or whatever. But every other major company price it's products in a similar price tier. Why none tries to undercuts them? If a product is significantly cheaper, is of significant lower quality also (hardware wise).

Perhaps but this is Sony/Nintendo, and their inputs have been the same for so long, and using a very familiar layout/design. I don't think they'll run into that much trouble with them.

 

[perfectchaos007]

I believe it will be $349.

The PSP launched at $249, the DS launched at $149

The 3DS launches at $249 so the NGS will launch at $349!

 

[angelfly]

I'm pretty sure iPhones are fairly expensive, though. they sell at $199/$299/whatever because the price is heavily subsidized by your carrier. Same with Android phones and all smart phones, really. No carriers around to subsidize the PSP2.

If they work out a deal or something to make for example t-mobile the exclusive 3g provider it could happen.

 

[Zophar]

- I know how everyone say that Apple is ripping its costumers with 80% profit margin or whatever. But every other major company price it's products in a similar price tier. Why none tries to undercuts them? If a product is significantly cheaper, is of significant lower quality also (hardware wise).

Everyone charges that much because they can. Smartphones are hot right now and people are conditioned to paying those prices for them. The incentive to reduce the prices is also significantly lessened by how common subsidized plans are and how lucrative they are for providers.

 

[Lonely1]

Everyone charges that much because they can. Smartphones are hot right now and people are conditioned to paying those prices for them. The incentive to reduce the prices is also significantly lessened by how common subsidized plans are and how lucrative they are for providers.

Is not only for phones, though. Tablets. If a Quadcore MP4+ tablet with 5'' Oled screen can be done so cheap, why none (else) is trying that? Tablets already are on a sort of arms race even though most of them have not shipped yet. But their proposed price are not much cheaper, if at all. HP is going alone with his own OS, yet it's WebOS tablet is rumored to be $799. Or Nokia, is losing a lot of market share very year. If this continue, from the most dominant they could become irrelevant, yet their (comparable, like the N8) Phones aren't much cheaper. Why keep competing with Apple and android on their game?

 

[Dreams-Visions]

If they work out a deal or something to make for example t-mobile the exclusive 3g provider it could happen.

possible. but are you interested in paying a monthly fee? say $20/month for the PSP2 unlimited data plan? for a device you'll be using almost exclusively for gaming? on top of what you're paying for your cell phone and its data plan?

 

[angelfly]

possible. but are you interested in paying a monthly fee? say $20/month for the PSP2 unlimited data plan? for a device you'll be using almost exclusively for gaming? on top of what you're paying for your cell phone and its data plan?

Nope, but I was speaking more a long the lines of not necessarily having to subscribe to a data plan but it if someone was then that would be their only option. Since it's going to work that way in Japan I assume they're getting something from the deal.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Well you've been suggesting it costs $400 to manufacture, and you justified that by listing a bunch of things you could find in a standard Iphone 4, Ipad or heck... even a Nintendo DS. The expensive parts will be the CPU/GPU and screen (though mass produced OLEDs should come out cheaper than LCDs). My argument is that these parts are not more advanced than what was in PSP, speaking relatively, and will probably cost less due to the fact that they are a standard mobile technology.

We'll have to just agree to disagree. Eventually the cost breakdown will leak and if you're right that the NGP's production costs are anywhere in the neighborhood of an iPhone or an iPad I'll offer you a public appology.

 

[Jeels]

I really can't agree with that. The PSP was groundbreaking in that it made a current gen console play portable at the time but aside from the beautiful screen and UMD what else was really special about it? This new system has two multitouch surfaces (one of them being a 5" OLED), motion sensors, GPS, cameras, mics, 3G and I'm sure other features that haven't even been revealed yet (internal storage?). I don't see how it can be argued that NGP not more advanced compared to current portables than the PSP was when it was released.

All this stuff is relatively standard in portable devices today and is not at all expensive. Just because Nintendo likes to add a 20 dollar price hike to their handheld when they add two cameras doesn't mean that's the actual manufacturing value of those things. (Talking about the DSi here). The 3G will be subsidized with a higher price, there will be a cheaper wifi only model.

$600 to buy.

And this is why there are substantial amounts of people that never buy into Apple, for the reason they rip their consumers off. I'm not saying Sony isn't in the business of that (heck, a company's job is to make profit after all), but they usually sell their hardware very close to, or in the case of the PS3 out of necessity, below their manufacturing costs.

Where did I say any of those elements are expensive? I was simply listing the extra components the NGP has over the OG PSP which do add to the overall cost of the device in comparative time periods.

The PSP was $250 dollars in 2005, it is not worth that anymore, so just because the PSP2 is lightyears ahead of the PSP, it doesn't mean you start your base price at 250 and go up from there.

Smart phone argument has already been taken care of.

 

[thaOwner]

I believe it will be $349.

The PSP launched at $249, the DS launched at $149

The 3DS launches at $249 so the NGS will launch at $349!

I'll day one this bitch no matter what the price but man, it would be sweet to have the system sell for $299. The 3g-less model at $249 would certainly make things more interesting though.

 

[NameIess]

I'm pretty sure iPhones are fairly expensive, though. they sell at $199/$299/whatever because the price is heavily subsidized by your carrier. Same with Android phones and all smart phones, really. No carriers around to subsidize the PSP2.

This could be the reason why 3G will be integrated into the device, because this could open the door to a carrier subsidy. If they do not plan to leverage a carrier to drive down cost adding 3G was a mistake, because 4G networks will be prevalent from a coverage perspective by 2012/2013 and provide superior bandwidth and latency for gaming/movie downloads.

I believe they will release the product for $399 or less, because anything greater would be suicide. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for cell phones to catch up because we will see a cell phone with an dual core Nvidia Arm processor with a 4" AMOLED display on 4G networks in 2011... We could see cell phones catch up in as soon as 2 years in my opinion.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I'll day one this bitch no matter what the price but man, it would be sweet to have the system sell for $299. The 3g-less model at $249 would certainly make things more interesting though.

That would be HUGE. I think the price is what messed up Sony more than anything they could have messed up with marketing or stupidity. They can make up for it by making this competitive at least. I'm in the 300-349 USD camp. 249 would be like that original PS1 price announcement. Huge.

I was talking about PS3 pricing up here.

 

[camineet]

$299 ~ $349 no doubts

 

[Fafalada]

Why keep competing with Apple and android on their game?

Greed I suppose - Samsung of all companies should be able to easily undercut Apple(and just about everyone else) even if Apple was selling at a loss, and they do the opposite, if anything. And so far it's been working for them too...

Maybe it's something about phones that makes people WANT to pay more.

 

[lachesis]

I think it's going to be $349, not $299... like I have anything against lower price, but due to Yen/dollar situation and currency inflation factor, $349 seems more equivalant of yesteryear's (early 2000's) $299.