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[sendit]

Jesus, really?

Lets not be daft now. There is a solar system sized difference when comparing these services. Sony isnt moving towards Cloud compute - that's straight up bullshit. They barely have a competent Cloud service as it stands. Sony may be moving towards GaaS but it's nothing compared to MS - you know that though.

Fuck VR - legit. Until it's cut from the "umbilical cord", it's never going to take off the way some hope it will.

Because these two companies basically [offer]the same services doesnt mean they are of equal quality. They arent. Not even close. Sony reigns with SP - everything esle is sub-standard at best. The only real feather in Sony's cap is the SP games. They're substandard with online, Cloud, BC, hardware (for now and probably next gen )even their Gamepass-esque service is of low quality. To this day they dont have one MP game in the same ranks as Gears, Halo or Froza. No way in hell they offer their 1st party games to Playstation Now day and date of release -- they cant afford to.

Their Cloud service is a joke compared to Azure - they cant afford to invest in CLoud the same way, and they lack the finances and resources of Microsoft to even begin to compete in that arena only offer a similar service (no promises) And you will NEVER see Sony invest in garnering 1st party studios on the level of Microsoft. Again, they cant afford to. The Playstation Dept may be doing well but the rest of Sony is bleeding money - they arent who they used to be in other arenas and its not getting any better. And let's be realistic -- Sony aren't an innovative company. They push, NADA! Their incredible at making the most out of being a traditional company. But when it comes to coming up with industry leading ideals and technology, - nope! That's just not Sony's bag.

No fanboy shit, just the facts.

I have no problem giving props when its due, and Sony has definitely earned them. But it resides in SP games ONLY. GaaS games have even been moving on without Sony for a while now. "B" for effort though.

How can Sony’s cloud service be a joke when Sony doesn’t have their own cloud service? However they’re free to leverage cloud compute from other platforms and turn a profit (even Azure if they wanted to), in which they do. Microsoft having Azure does not equal free compute. Who do you think foots the bill for maintaining those data centers?

Additionally, what major multiplayer games are you playing that you can’t on the PS4? Other than the obvious Halo/Gears/Forza. Call of Duty? Fortnite? Battlefield? Overwatch?

This is a very weak argument you’re presenting.

Also, “Sony isn’t moving towards cloud compute”. PSNow says hi.

 

[EDMIX]

This. As long as they're putting out great games that appeal to me, that's all I need to stick with them as my main. And that's probably true of most of the market as exemplified by them dominating in the PS1, PS2 and current generations and scrapping back to catch up to 360 by the end of last gen/early into this gen.

They'd have likely dominated (at least over 360, likely not over the Wii craze) if they'd simply been "lazy" and gone with the status quo with the PS3. Instead they got all cocky and arrogant and forced in Bluray to win the format war (largely moot now that streaming dominates and BR sales never even surpassed DVD) and drove up the price and alienated people at launch with shitty comments about working a second job to afford it and so on.

So yeah, I'm fine with them being lazy and just keeping the status quo. It's the best place to play high production value, cinematic, narrative driven games and that's most of my gaming interests these days. I don't need them to stop "being lazy" as I just want more of the same. I do want them to stop with bullshit like blocking cross play and requiring censoring of games though. But just on principle as those don't affect me personally as I don't play online games really and don't at all play the types of games affected by the censoring. But both are things that should stop.

"Instead they got all cocky and arrogant and forced in Bluray to win the format war" They still released new series and established with PS3 and Bluray was needed for them to even do many, many games. Bluray in PS3 was needed to get us cheaper PS4's and even XONE with bluray drives.

PS3 needed to move that price down to get us where we are today.

IF PS5 cost more money but Sony is using a new media format, that isn't cocky, that is forward thinking. Someone needs to PAY to have us keep advancing and Bluray included helped them more then hurt. If we want next gen concepts, we must also have no issue in paying for the tech.

 

[Gavon West]

Your argument becomes invalid here



I didn't own a PS3. I came to PS4 by way of Donny macs insults and to be honest, my PS purchase was as an alternative but 5 years later I'm completely locked in. Why?

I need the next uncharted.
My game of the generation is Horizon Zero Dawn
I fell in love With Gravity Rush
God Of War pushes this hobby of ours forward.
Journey got me in my feels
My Wife loved playing through Until Dawn with me
Spider-Man had me and my friends reminiscing on what we used to read in the comics
I've been play SFV and still get a match within less than a minute
Ratchet & Clank was unexpectedly good fun
The Last Of Us is the greatest game I've ever played

And every third party game I've played has additional content exclusive to PS.

I could go on. No seriously, I could go on and on but in short, I need sequels too all those ip. And should the studios decide to move on from the ip that got me hooked, they've already proved that as a gamer, I need to stick with them. I bought an XB1S that came with Forza and gears. Two ip I've played through repeatedly on my 360. And since then, the only purchased I made there was an indie game called Cuphead. In short, IP matters! IP is what keeps people invested.

This notion that gamers look at both new/next gen consoles as a simple 50 / 50 choice is a fallacy. All of the stuff you talk about has ZERO resonance beyond the timdog types on twitter.

Back Compat
Gamepass
Studios that were just bought

Are not selling points. More TFLOPS is not a selling point. If they were XB would at least be in contention in it's strongest market. But even with the launch of the 1X XBOX still came in third place. Are you even aware of the fact that outside of the US a lot of gaming stores don't bother carrying the XBOX console? You litterally have to go to specialist shops, in some regions, to find an XBOX. But somehow "What Phil Spencer said" has you thinking that ip doesn't matter. And next Generation things will start on an even keel. Not realizing that PS success equates to momentum and more importantly mind share. And Sony is starting next generation with all the mind share.

What Phil Spencer says has no impact beyond these gaming forums and I think XB guys refuse to accept that because then the reality of how dire the situation is, with the broader market, will look too stark for comfort.

Oh, boy! You enjoy Sony games like TLoU, Spiderman, GoW, stuff like that?? That's great! Great for you! See, the only problem is that I look at the same line up your balls in for, and it doesnt appeal to me in the least. As for the rest of your post - let me educate you a bit:

BC, Gamepass, Studios, Tflops arent selling pointS to YOU. You cant speak for the whole of the gaming community. If none of those selling points arent your bag, it just aint your bag. No one gives a shit. No offense. But I know of many in the world and online who're seriously considering turning over a "green" leaf. Just read some of the comments on this very forum - how many just purchased brand new X's. Native 4K (Tflops you said no one cared about, 'member?) on the biggest game of this generation w/ RDR2 and a shit load of others that look loads better than the competition. If you pay close attention, most new X owners pretty much commit to using the Pro Ps4 for exclusives and keeping with X for multi's. But.....you know....."Tflops" dont matter. Yeah, right.....

Why would I care where people in other countries buy their console? I give fuck-all. I know where I can buy one.

BC: isnt a sales point for YOU, because you have a sub standard version. It isnt impressive. Whereas with the X you get enhanced BC titles and titles that simply look better due to the hardware. Some look like legit remasters, and you get them for free. But.....nah. That's not a selling point. Nevermind that BC titles are free if you've owned them already, with some of them being enhanced to fucking 4K (which is fucking nuts in itself) and better frame rates. And, I mean, Sony is rumored to add BC to the PS5, right? I wonder why though? According to you, that's not a selling point. If it's not going to help them sell consoles, why include it in the first place???

Gamepass: Isn't a sales point for YOU becasue you have a sub-standard version. Again, just isnt impressive. No enhancements, the hardware plays it - that's about it. Sony could literally send you the same copy of your BC game in the mail, and you STILL couldnt tell the difference in which version looked better; the Digital or the Postal Service copy. That's bad, breh...

Again, if it isnt a selling point, why does Sony have their own version of it now - regardless of how sub-standard it may be??? Hell, they couldnt even be bothered to at least stand equal with GP, they knew it, and still tossed that half-assed, half-baked service out into the wild for rabid Sony fans to gorge on, charging more money than the competition. And Sony fans ate it up. Yikes!!

Not only that, your BC will remain unimpressive because it'll never offer day one release of Sony's first party bangers. Won't happen, cant happen. And you'll still be overcharged for a sub-standard service that cant hold a candle to the competition. That's why it's not a selling point to you. It's covered in vaseline and smells like ass. Just saying, breh...

And youre absolutely correct in saying that what "Phil says" isn't much. I stand with you there. But when I see action to back up what he says, that's when I start paying attention.

I'm not here to bag on Sony. Hell, they have a great system and in my opinion, have definitely earned 1st place this gen. (although I wouldnt say that makes them the best system out there.) For whatever reason Microsoft couldnt match them in the SP department - regardless of financial constraints or whatever. And if you're an Xbox fan, it's a "better late than never" scenario where we are finally seeing what we've been wanting to see this entire generation.

..But it is happening now, isn't it?

 

[Deleted member 752119]

"Instead they got all cocky and arrogant and forced in Bluray to win the format war" They still released new series and established with PS3 and Bluray was needed for them to even do many, many games. Bluray in PS3 was needed to get us cheaper PS4's and even XONE with bluray drives.

PS3 needed to move that price down to get us where we are today.

IF PS5 cost more money but Sony is using a new media format, that isn't cocky, that is forward thinking. Someone needs to PAY to have us keep advancing and Bluray included helped them more then hurt. If we want next gen concepts, we must also have no issue in paying for the tech.

Meh, I was all in on PS2 and now on PS4. Still enjoyed the 360 just fine and mained it last gen and was pretty meh on PS3 a few great exclusives aside.

Storage medium are all moot now as gaming is all digital and discs are just delivery mechanisms for people who don't want to just buy digitally. So it was hardly any revolutionary thing for gaming. It was a move to win the HD movie disc format war, not thing more.

In any case, I don't give a single shit about next gen anytime soon or even have any plans to upgrade to a 4KTV. I'm old and done being on the cutting edge of technology. I'll ride out this gen and retro games for a while into next gen most likely. Even more so if the entry price is more than $400 as gaming just isn't worth that to me given I don't care that much about graphics and have a fuck ton of current and prior gen games I'd still like to get to and can do so for dirt cheap. I'll let the young whipper snappers and graphic's whores be the ones "paying for the tech" to move things forward.

 

[Gavon West]

How can Sony’s cloud service be a joke when Sony doesn’t have their own cloud service? However they’re free to leverage cloud compute from other platforms and turn a profit (even Azure if they wanted to), in which they do. Microsoft having Azure does not equal free compute. Who do you think foots the bill for maintaining those data centers?

Additionally, what major multiplayer games are you playing that you can’t on the PS4? Other than the obvious Halo/Gears/Forza. Call of Duty? Fortnite? Battlefield? Overwatch?

This is a very weak argument you’re presenting.

Also, “Sony isn’t moving towards cloud compute”. PSNow says hi.

They're free to leverage cloud, but will they? Wait... So its okay that Sony is okay to leverage cloud of they choose to, but its not okay if Microsoft actually buys studios to make games? You can't even say with certainty that Sony will attempt to leverage cloud, can you? They havent even mentioned it which makes what you're wanting a one-sided story. So far as we know, Sony isnt interested in leveraging Cloud. Keep talking, breh...

And you can play every multiple platform game on Ps4 that you can on X. Thats true. But, there is a MAJOR difference. Can you guess what it is? I bet you can't. That's not meant as a joke.

 

[Klayzer]

Their free to leverage cloud, but will they? Wait... So its okay that Sony is okay to leverage cloud of they choose to, but its not okay if Microsoft actually buys studios to make games? You can't even say with certainty that Sony will attempt to leverage cloud, can you? Keep talking, breh...

And you can play every multiple platform game on Ps4 that you can on X. Thats true. But, there is a MAJOR difference. Can you guess what it is? I bet you can't. That's not meant as a joke.

Most gamers buy the PS4 version is my guess.

 

[EDMIX]

Meh, I was all in on PS2 and now on PS4. Still enjoyed the 360 just fine and mained it last gen and was pretty meh on PS3 a few great exclusives aside.

Storage medium are all moot now as gaming is all digital and discs are just delivery mechanisms for people who don't want to just buy digitally. So it was hardly any revolutionary thing for gaming. It was a move to win the HD movie disc format war, not thing more.

In any case, I don't give a single shit about next gen anytime soon or even have any plans to upgrade to a 4KTV. I'm old and done being on the cutting edge of technology. I'll ride out this gen and retro games for a while into next gen most likely. Even more so if the entry price is more than $400 as gaming just isn't worth that to me given I don't care that much about graphics and have a fuck ton of current and prior gen games I'd still like to get to and can do so for dirt cheap. I'll let the young whipper snappers and graphic's whores be the ones "paying for the tech" to move things forward.

"It was a move to win the HD movie disc format war, not thing more" Oh it was something more bud. That allowed for it to be used for gaming and the majority still buy games on disk. In order to have those sales and support, they need the format to push stuff like MGS4, Uncharted, The Last Of Us etc.

That isn't solely on "graphic's" buddy, all tech comes at a cost. Can't as for next gen and then expect to pay LAST GEN money for better tech. Makes little sense. Something has to give and I'm open to spending more if it means pushing us forward vs used dated tech to save a few pennies.

What you or I personally like is irrelevant to the point (i have no clue why you keep bring up what you like or your personal set up etc, thats nice.....but irrelevant to the point, I'm not stating my personal taste to keep this level)

Their set up didn't change last gen. new series, Uncharted, The Last Of Us, Infamous, Resistance etc, ESTABLISHED God Of War, GT5-6, Ratchet etc. So their status quo is why you see this gen with new IP and established as that is how they've done their generations for years.

 

[sendit]

Their free to leverage cloud, but will they? Wait... So its okay that Sony is okay to leverage cloud of they choose to, but its not okay if Microsoft actually buys studios to make games? You can't even say with certainty that Sony will attempt to leverage cloud, can you? Keep talking, breh...

And you can play every multiple platform game on Ps4 that you can on X. Thats true. But, there is a MAJOR difference. Can you guess what it is? I bet you can't. That's not meant as a joke.

What you are going on about? Who do you think host Sony's PSNow service?.....Sony is already leveraging cloud compute, like Microsoft is doing with Crackdown 3 . Additionally, no one ever said it's not okay for Microsoft to buy studios. However, instead of following blind hype. Why not wait and see what these studios can produce for Microsoft?

Please enlighten me. What is the MAJOR difference between PS4 vs Xbox multiplayer?

 

[Deleted member 752119]

"It was a move to win the HD movie disc format war, not thing more" Oh it was something more bud. That allowed for it to be used for gaming and the majority still buy games on disk. In order to have those sales and support, they need the format to push stuff like MGS4, Uncharted, The Last Of Us etc.

That isn't solely on "graphic's" buddy, all tech comes at a cost. Can't as for next gen and then expect to pay LAST GEN money for better tech. Makes little sense. Something has to give and I'm open to spending more if it means pushing us forward vs used dated tech to save a few pennies.

What you or I personally like is irrelevant to the point (i have no clue why you keep bring up what you like or your personal set up etc, thats nice.....but irrelevant to the point, I'm not stating my personal taste to keep this level)

Their set up didn't change last gen. new series, Uncharted, The Last Of Us, Infamous, Resistance etc, ESTABLISHED God Of War, GT5-6, Ratchet etc. So their status quo is why you see this gen with new IP and established as that is how they've done their generations for years.

Whatever dude. You seem like a giant Sony fanboy and I won't be reading yours posts anymore. I hate all these corporations equally and only begrudingly give them my money and have zero loyalty to them or patience for the defense force types.

 

[Gavon West]

What are going on about? Who do you think host Sony's PSNow service?.....Sony is already leveraging cloud compute, like Microsoft is doing with Crackdown 3 . Additionally, no one ever said it's not okay for Microsoft to buy studios. However, instead of following blind hype. Why not wait and see what these studios can produce for Microsoft?

Please elignten me. What is the MAJOR difference between PS4 vs Xbox multiplayer?

Hook, line and sinker.

Nah bro. If I gotta tell you, you aint been paying attention.

 

[sendit]

This is just sad....

 

[EDMIX]

Whatever dude. You seem like a giant Sony fanboy and I won't be reading yours posts anymore. I hate all these corporations equally and only begrudingly give them my money and have zero loyalty to them or patience for the defense force types.

Again, why on earth do you keep trying to make this personal? Nothing to do with what I like or what you like...

Reality is, people still buy games on disk as the majority, Bluray wasn't just used for ONLY movies, bluray in PS4 and XONE is cheaper because those 85 million plus units sold drove the price down and Sony has had the same set up of new IP and established series since they entered gaming.


Above has NOTHING to with if you or I like PS, simply the fact of the matter. Stop getting so emotional over it man, stay on topic. Facts have nothing do with what you or I personally like, its why I stayed away from stating personal likes.....

Yet I'm a fanboy for telling you factual information? lol

ok then.

 

[EDMIX]

What are going on about? Who do you think host Sony's PSNow service?.....Sony is already leveraging cloud compute, like Microsoft is doing with Crackdown 3 . Additionally, no one ever said it's not okay for Microsoft to buy studios. However, instead of following blind hype. Why not wait and see what these studios can produce for Microsoft?

Please enlighten me. What is the MAJOR difference between PS4 vs Xbox multiplayer?

Agreed. They may not be using it the same exact way, but they very much are using a cloud set up. Agreed with the MS statement too, I'm excited they are taking the step, but I we'd need to see what is made first.

 

[GMan72]

Oh, boy! You enjoy Sony games like TLoU, Spiderman, GoW, stuff like that?? That's great! Great for you! See, the only problem is that I look at the same line up your balls in for, and it doesnt appeal to me in the least. As for the rest of your post - let me educate you a bit:

BC, Gamepass, Studios, Tflops arent selling pointS to YOU.

. But.....you know....."Tflops" dont matter. Yeah, right.....

Why would I care where people in other countries buy their console? I give fuck-all. I know where I can buy one.

BC: isnt a sales point for YOU, because you have a sub standard version. It isnt impressive.

Gamepass: Isn't a sales point for YOU becasue you have a sub-standard version.

..But it is happening now, isn't it?

Imma shorten my response because you didn't address what I said. Instead I'm going to use a few of your points to reiterate my same point. Show me where, when, and how

Gamepass
Backwards Compatability
TFLOPS

Have helped improve how the XB is perceived outside of the gaming forums and a digital foundry comparison vid? Remember that in XBOX's strongest market it's been third place, monthly, for over two years. And that's including the 1X launch month? It hasn't. You're too wrapped up in the social media aspect of gaming to realize that outside of that XB as a platform hasn't had momentum since launch.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Imma shorten my response because you didn't address what I said. Instead I'm going to use a few of your points to reiterate my same point. Show me where, when, and how

Gamepass
Backwards Compatability
TFLOPS

Have helped improve how the XB is perceived outside of the gaming forums and a digital foundry comparison vid? Remember that in XBOX's strongest market it's been third place, monthly, for over two years. And that's including the 1X launch month? It hasn't. You're too wrapped up in the social media aspect of gaming to realize that outside of that XB as a platform hasn't had momentum since launch.

I agree with you that it's had little momentum outside of the hardcore. Especially with the X as it's priced to that market at $500.

I do think Gamepass could build a lot of momentum for the Xbox brand (if not the console itself) long term. Once they get the full service on PC and other platforms (set top boxes like Roku etc.) that hugely expand the potential audience for their games. An expensive console to play a few exclusives for people who already have another console. Paying $10 for a month here and there to play some new exclusive on hardware they already own (well, may need to get a controller I guess) is a pretty easy sale. It's not huge money compared to the people willing to go buy the console and a copy of that game. But in those cases it's money from someone they would have gotten none from before.

BC I think is something that just helps with the hardcore. Most average gamers aren't going back and playing old games and are just playing the newest CoD, Fifa, Madden, GTA, AssCreed etc. on the newest platform they own.

Power I think can matter when all else is equal (price, third party game selection etc.) between two consoles. Again, the average gamers are mostly playing the big multiplats as those dominate the sales charts (along with the biggest Nintendo first party games). Being able to say you have the best versions of those can help a lot. It definitely did with the 360 and the bad press PS3 got for worse versions of things like Skyrim. Similarly, the Xbox One launching at $100 more (due to Kinect) and being less powerful was bad PR for the Xbox One and Sony hit on that in their conferences. Being cheaper AND more powerful was a strong selling point. Now getting down to stats like TFLOPs, yeah that doesn't matter as most people don't know what those even mean. Just being able to say it's more powerful and not get hit with false advertising charges is they key.

 

[Gavon West]

Imma shorten my response because you didn't address what I said. Instead I'm going to use a few of your points to reiterate my same point. Show me where, when, and how

Gamepass
Backwards Compatability
TFLOPS

Have helped improve how the XB is perceived outside of the gaming forums and a digital foundry comparison vid? Remember that in XBOX's strongest market it's been third place, monthly, for over two years. And that's including the 1X launch month? It hasn't. You're too wrapped up in the social media aspect of gaming to realize that outside of that XB as a platform hasn't had momentum since launch.

I'm going to make mine even shorter for you: The very fact that Microsoft has been making such huge investments in studio acquisitions proves your statement inaccurate. It may not have won NPD (im not an investor. I dont give as shit who wins NPD), but it's definitely had/has momentum - especially now. Look for that to increase during E3 2019.

 

[EDMIX]

Imma shorten my response because you didn't address what I said. Instead I'm going to use a few of your points to reiterate my same point. Show me where, when, and how

Gamepass
Backwards Compatability
TFLOPS

Have helped improve how the XB is perceived outside of the gaming forums and a digital foundry comparison vid? Remember that in XBOX's strongest market it's been third place, monthly, for over two years. And that's including the 1X launch month? It hasn't. You're too wrapped up in the social media aspect of gaming to realize that outside of that XB as a platform hasn't had momentum since launch.

Agreed. Right now lots of what MS is doing is really pushing momentum to next gen, this will only hurt XONE, so I think the platform is done for and they are looking for a fresh start with NextBox. Those moves they made are not bad, but not enough to really win a generation. I know not of anyone buy a new system, to rent or play last gen games. I'm sure they are fun games, but might as well tell that person to keep playing 360 or something. They are great features, but not something that will change this situation they are in. They need that fresh start with next gen and I see little reason for any to hold out this weird hope that things will turn around for XONE.

That should have stopped when MS started putting everything on PC. Thats when I knew they were just not going to win this gen and had no hope.

 

[Klayzer]

Imma shorten my response because you didn't address what I said. Instead I'm going to use a few of your points to reiterate my same point. Show me where, when, and how

Gamepass
Backwards Compatability
TFLOPS

Have helped improve how the XB is perceived outside of the gaming forums and a digital foundry comparison vid? Remember that in XBOX's strongest market it's been third place, monthly, for over two years. And that's including the 1X launch month? It hasn't. You're too wrapped up in the social media aspect of gaming to realize that outside of that XB as a platform hasn't had momentum since launch.

Sales don't count. It's all about the cloud and new studios acquired. Sales wont matter until MS starts leading in the console space again.

 

[Gavon West]

I agree with you that it's had little momentum outside of the hardcore. Especially with the X as it's priced to that market at $500.

I do think Gamepass could build a lot of momentum for the Xbox brand (if not the console itself) long term. Once they get the full service on PC and other platforms (set top boxes like Roku etc.) that hugely expand the potential audience for their games. An expensive console to play a few exclusives for people who already have another console. Paying $10 for a month here and there to play some new exclusive on hardware they already own (well, may need to get a controller I guess) is a pretty easy sale. It's not huge money compared to the people willing to go buy the console and a copy of that game. But in those cases it's money from someone they would have gotten none from before.

BC I think is something that just helps with the hardcore. Most average gamers aren't going back and playing old games and are just playing the newest CoD, Fifa, Madden, GTA, AssCreed etc. on the newest platform they own.

Power I think can matter when all else is equal (price, third party game selection etc.) between two consoles. Again, the average gamers are mostly playing the big multiplats as those dominate the sales charts (along with the biggest Nintendo first party games). Being able to say you have the best versions of those can help a lot. It definitely did with the 360 and the bad press PS3 got for worse versions of things like Skyrim. Similarly, the Xbox One launching at $100 more (due to Kinect) and being less powerful was bad PR for the Xbox One and Sony hit on that in their conferences. Being cheaper AND more powerful was a strong selling point. Now getting down to stats like TFLOPs, yeah that doesn't matter as most people don't know what those even mean. Just being able to say it's more powerful and not get hit with false advertising charges is they key.

Most gamers dont know what a friggin Tflop is. But they know terms like Native 4K. BC has clearly gone beyond the hardcore as it's now a staple in the Xbox platform these days - not just the hardcore. That's becasue its not just BC. It's improvements to your old games, being able to carry them with you from gen to gen. It's enhancements, making old games like new. We've even seen old BC games Like BLOPS hit the top sales charts in this current generation.

BC is more than just for the hardcore. Maybe in the beginning. Now, It's a matter of fact - like controllers.

 

[Gavon West]

Sales don't count. It's all about the cloud and new studios acquired. Sales wont matter until MS starts leading in the console space again.

Dont be salty.

How do sales benefit you as a gamer? Refresh my memory...Lol.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I'm going to make mine even shorter for you: The very fact that Microsoft has been making such huge investments in studio acquisitions proves your statement inaccurate. It may not have won NPD (im not an investor. I dont give as shit who wins NPD), but it's definitely had/has momentum - especially now. Look for that to increase during E3 2019.

NPD wars is pointless for Xbox and PS because since last gen it's got to a point both platforms have enough sales so that just about every third party games comes to both systems. Unique content is first party based and whatever moneyhat deals they pull off.

PS4 is double the user base of Xbox One, yet X still gets the best version when how many X's are out there????? Maybe 3 million tops?

Now if this was two gens ago and PS2 has 100+ million consoles and growing and GC and Xbox OG are struggling to even hit 20 million then sure, it might not be worth every third party game going to all platforms. But even then, you still had the typical EA or Activision game going to everything even to N-Gage.

At this time, X has the best games. But when PS5 or X2 come out, X will take a backseat.

It's like someone claiming their VW is better than an Audi because it sells more units.

The VW owner will say VW is better because it sells more and it has exclusive plant holders and more trunk space. Audi owner says it has no unique features like that but doesn't care because the core feature of driving is on the same roads except the Audi looks better and has a more powerful engine.

 

[EDMIX]

I agree with you that it's had little momentum outside of the hardcore. Especially with the X as it's priced to that market at $500.

I do think Gamepass could build a lot of momentum for the Xbox brand (if not the console itself) long term. Once they get the full service on PC and other platforms (set top boxes like Roku etc.) that hugely expand the potential audience for their games. An expensive console to play a few exclusives for people who already have another console. Paying $10 for a month here and there to play some new exclusive on hardware they already own (well, may need to get a controller I guess) is a pretty easy sale. It's not huge money compared to the people willing to go buy the console and a copy of that game. But in those cases it's money from someone they would have gotten none from before.

BC I think is something that just helps with the hardcore. Most average gamers aren't going back and playing old games and are just playing the newest CoD, Fifa, Madden, GTA, AssCreed etc. on the newest platform they own.

Power I think can matter when all else is equal (price, third party game selection etc.) between two consoles. Again, the average gamers are mostly playing the big multiplats as those dominate the sales charts (along with the biggest Nintendo first party games). Being able to say you have the best versions of those can help a lot. It definitely did with the 360 and the bad press PS3 got for worse versions of things like Skyrim. Similarly, the Xbox One launching at $100 more (due to Kinect) and being less powerful was bad PR for the Xbox One and Sony hit on that in their conferences. Being cheaper AND more powerful was a strong selling point. Now getting down to stats like TFLOPs, yeah that doesn't matter as most people don't know what those even mean. Just being able to say it's more powerful and not get hit with false advertising charges is they key.

Agree with most of your post.

"Once they get the full service on PC and other platforms (set top boxes like Roku etc.) that hugely expand the potential audience for their games" Agreed, that is what I think MS is seeking for the most part, that will ultimately make XB a bigger option then a must going forward, but its about MS making more money as suppose to selling more XB consoles.

 

[Gavon West]

NPD wars is pointless for Xbox and PS because since last gen it's got to a point both platforms have enough sales so that just about every third party games comes to both systems. Unique content is first party based and whatever moneyhat deals they pull off.

PS4 is double the user base of Xbox One, yet X still gets the best version when how many X's are out there????? Maybe 3 million tops?

Now if this was two gens ago and PS2 has 100+ million consoles and growing and GC and Xbox OG are struggling to even hit 20 million then sure, it might not be worth every third party game going to all platforms. But even then, you still had the typical EA or Activision game going to everything even to N-Gage.

At this time, X has the best games. But when PS5 or X2 come out, X will take a backseat.

It's like someone claiming their VW is better than an Audi because it sells more units.

The VW owner will say VW is better because it sells more and it has exclusive plant holders and more trunk space. Audi owner says it has no unique features like that but doesn't care because the core feature of driving is on the same roads except the Audi looks better and has a more powerful engine.

NPD is strictly used by gamers (specifically forum console warriors) for shit slinging competitions.

People like to act as if because my preferred gaming console sells more, I enjoy the games on it more - which is preposterous. That kind of mentality is all kinds of in the realm of professional psychiatric help.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Most gamers dont know what a friggin Tflop is. But they know terms like Native 4K. BC has clearly gone beyond the hardcore as it's now a staple in the Xbox platform these days - not just the hardcore. That's becasue its not just BC. It's improvements to your old games, being able to carry them with you from gen to gen. It's enhancements, making old games like new. We've even seen old BC games Like BLOPS hit the top sales charts in this current generation.

BC is more than just for the hardcore. Maybe in the beginning. Now, It's a matter of fact - like controllers.

Maybe. I also think it will be a moot point in terms of next gen hardware sales as I think BC will be the norm going forward on PS, Xbox and of course PC. Who the fuck knows with Nintendo. They do their own thing and seem to largely have their own market space with their diehard fans, parents/kids and as a complementary console for a lot of core/hardcore gamers.

It's probably more used that I think though. Like everyone we all bring our own biases in to things and I've never been one to replay old games or even keep them as I've always been one to trade (as a dumb kid with limited option) or sale off my games when I'm done. Never big on rewatching movies or TV shows. I'm more a variety is the spice of life person and prefer new experiences to revisiting old things. Many people of course love revisting things though, so BC is probably a bigger deal than I think. But again, probably a non-factor in the sales race next gen as I'd be flabbergasted if both the MS and Sony offering didn't have full BC. MS's will probably better as its more likely to include 360 and original Xbox games and Sony's only to include PS4 games though.

 

[Klayzer]

Dont be salty.

How do sales benefit you as a gamer? Refresh my memory...Lol.

The same benefits you get from your MS pr rampage...Nothing

 

[Gavon West]

Maybe. I also think it will be a moot point in terms of next gen hardware sales as I think BC will be the norm going forward on PS, Xbox and of course PC. Who the fuck knows with Nintendo. They do their own thing and seem to largely have their own market space with their diehard fans, parents/kids and as a complementary console for a lot of core/hardcore gamers.

It's probably more used that I think though. Like everyone we all bring our own biases in to things and I've never been one to replay old games or even keep them as I've always been one to trade (as a dumb kid with limited option) or sale off my games when I'm done. Never big on rewatching movies or TV shows. I'm more a variety is the spice of life person and prefer new experiences to revisiting old things. Many people of course love revisting things though, so BC is probably a bigger deal than I think. But again, probably a non-factor in the sales race next gen as I'd be flabbergasted if both the MS and Sony offering didn't have full BC. MS's will probably better as its more likely to include 360 and original Xbox games and Sony's only to include PS4 games though.

Agree with most, but I dare say that if the PS5 doesnt offer BC, they'll take a solid one on the chin for it. Forumites like to ramp and rave about how BC isnt a big deal because, "no one wants to play old games". But I'll unequivocally beg to differ. Let either MS or Sony not have BC next gen - see what happens. Watch gamers show where their loyalty truly lies.

 

[EDMIX]

NPD wars is pointless for Xbox and PS because since last gen it's got to a point both platforms have enough sales so that just about every third party games comes to both systems. Unique content is first party based and whatever moneyhat deals they pull off.

PS4 is double the user base of Xbox One, yet X still gets the best version when how many X's are out there????? Maybe 3 million tops?

Now if this was two gens ago and PS2 has 100+ million consoles and growing and GC and Xbox OG are struggling to even hit 20 million then sure, it might not be worth every third party game going to all platforms. But even then, you still had the typical EA or Activision game going to everything even to N-Gage.

At this time, X has the best games. But when PS5 or X2 come out, X will take a backseat.

It's like someone claiming their VW is better than an Audi because it sells more units.

The VW owner will say VW is better because it sells more and it has exclusive plant holders and more trunk space. Audi owner says it has no unique features like that but doesn't care because the core feature of driving is on the same roads except the Audi looks better and has a more powerful engine.

Agreed with most. PS getting lost of Japanese games vs XB even is based on the install base buying those games more vs units sold. I don't really know if PS has gained that much games with the extra install base. So most 3rd parties are putting games on as many systems as makes sense and they can afford to.

 

[GMan72]

Sales don't count. It's all about the cloud and new studios acquired. Sales wont matter until MS starts leading in the console space again.

They've shifted from sales being used to measure the growth of an instal base to sales only matter to investors?

EDMIX @dmaul1114 I agree with your points.

What this dude doesn't get is that I'm not saying that BC or GP aren't good for gaming. Or that the 1X's tflops aren't good for that console. Dude doesn't seem able to get past the PR XB is pushing and thinks that how we view gaming, on these gaming forums, is in tune with the broader consensus.

XB being confined to one region and losing month in month out in it's strongest market isn't an issue for some because they gravitate towards a CEO's PR. I'm a gamer. I couldn't care less about what Phil Spencer said on twitter. I'm a gamer. I judge my experiences with these consoles through the experiences they deliver.

It has been 3 years since XBOX introduced a new IP. 3 fucking years. 2 years since they won a NPD in their STRONGEST territory. THese people don't understand that the thing that matters most in gaming is mind share. XBOX has none. To the wider market it's a dormant device in terms of ip that can really push the console to the fore.

So they fall back on what Digital Foundry said about RDR2 etc And then the game releases and breaks records on PS. Best selling, Most preordered, most digital downloads etc etc etc etc. Why? Because 99.9% don't know who DF is. They've never seen a DF comparison vid. But the RDR2 marketing... The version that comes with that special revolver with the Ninja grip and samurai scope, that's only on Playstation.

All this netflix of games talk while omitting the fact that nextflix has a bevy of exclusive content makes me chuckle sometimes.

 

[Gavon West]

The same benefits you get from your MS pr rampage...Nothing

Why would I rampage exactly? Xbox is in a very good place right now, with a very bright future. I couldnt be happier. Hell, all the Big 3 are doing well. The gaming community is flush with growth and great games on the horizon. I think you're just....

 

[EDMIX]

Maybe. I also think it will be a moot point in terms of next gen hardware sales as I think BC will be the norm going forward on PS, Xbox and of course PC. Who the fuck knows with Nintendo. They do their own thing and seem to largely have their own market space with their diehard fans, parents/kids and as a complementary console for a lot of core/hardcore gamers.

It's probably more used that I think though. Like everyone we all bring our own biases in to things and I've never been one to replay old games or even keep them as I've always been one to trade (as a dumb kid with limited option) or sale off my games when I'm done. Never big on rewatching movies or TV shows. I'm more a variety is the spice of life person and prefer new experiences to revisiting old things. Many people of course love revisting things though, so BC is probably a bigger deal than I think. But again, probably a non-factor in the sales race next gen as I'd be flabbergasted if both the MS and Sony offering didn't have full BC. MS's will probably better as its more likely to include 360 and original Xbox games and Sony's only to include PS4 games though.

Agreed. I think that is likely based on both using X86. I think Sony's only reason not to have BC this gen is simply based on that PS3's cell design. I see PS5 having PS4 BC if they are using similar PC set ups like they used this gen, same with MS as they have a set up works well with BC. Even 360's set up was closer to PC then PS3 that allowed for such smooth BC transition, I expect next gen to be smoother and for it to be native.

 

[EDMIX]

They've shifted from sales being used to measure the growth of an instal base to sales only matter to investors?

EDMIX @dmaul1114 I agree with your points.

What this dude doesn't get is that I'm not saying that BC or GP aren't good for gaming. Or that the 1X's tflops aren't good for that console. Dude doesn't seem able to get past the PR XB is pushing and thinks that how we view gaming, on these gaming forums, is in tune with the broader consensus.

XB being confined to one region and losing month in month out in it's strongest market isn't an issue for some because they gravitate towards a CEO's PR. I'm a gamer. I couldn't care less about what Phil Spencer said on twitter. I'm a gamer. I judge my experiences with these consoles through the experiences they deliver.

It has been 3 years since XBOX introduced a new IP. 3 fucking years. 2 years since they won a NPD in their STRONGEST territory. THese people don't understand that the thing that matters most in gaming is mind share. XBOX has none. To the wider market it's a dormant device in terms of ip that can really push the console to the fore.

So they fall back on what Digital Foundry said about RDR2 etc And then the game releases and breaks records on PS. Best selling, Most preordered, most digital downloads etc etc etc etc. Why? Because 99.9% don't know who DF is. They've never seen a DF comparison vid. But the RDR2 marketing with that special revolver with Ninja grip that's only on Playstation.

All this netflix of games talk while ommiting the fact that nextflix has a bevy of exclusive content makes me chuckle sometimes

Agreed.

I get what you mean. Its not that BC or Gamepass are bad, simply that they really can't only be the 95% focus on MS as its saying last gen games and a rental serice is all they had to offer. Its not bad, but how many are really buying a system for rentals and last gen games?

So MS focus for next gen sounds much better then this gen, as BC and Gamepass are fine, but that money foremost should have been used on those studios years ago.

Content should have been their only focus.

I barely care about MOST PS4 features outside for a few, but I'm spending thousands of hours playing great exclusive games and 3rd party games, not last gen or renting or anything like that.

PS Now I'm sure is great for anyone using it, but there is a reason why that isn't in the top 5 best things Sony did for PS4 this gen.

1.Games
2.Games
3.Games
4.Games
5.Games

If MS spent this whole gen just buying teams to help XONE, we wouldn't even need to be listing Gamepass or BC as top things they did, should even be on the bullet point if you ask me. They aren't bad features, but how little does a publisher need to do to have a rental service and last gen games be the highlight of what they did this gen?

I'm not listing PS Now above Horizon Zero Dawn or The Last Of Us 2 folks lol

 

[Klayzer]

Why would I rampage exactly? Xbox is in a very good place right now, with a very bright future. I couldnt be happier. Hell, all the Big 3 are doing well. The gaming community is flush with growth and great games on the horizon. I think you're just....

Still not as salty as you get when anyone questions MS on their P.R. statements or games.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Agreed with most. PS getting lost of Japanese games vs XB even is based on the install base buying those games more vs units sold. I don't really know if PS has gained that much games with the extra install base. So most 3rd parties are putting games on as many systems as makes sense and they can afford to.

That's one thing I forgot. PS will always get way more Japanese games. But for the usual third party decent budget game, basically every one of them will come to PS and Xbox. And even Switch gets more love now as the user base is propping up and Nintendo is trying to skew to an older audience.

 

[sendit]

More people want to play new games. If BC was as important as some say, everyone would be flocking to PC && mobile gaming. You guys all have phones right?

With that said, next gen from both Sony & Microsoft are being engineered by AMD from the same x86 architect as current gen. BC will most likely be there without any additional effort. Will it be used as a selling point, probably. Additionally, it'll ease the transition to next gen for some.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Agree with most, but I dare say that if the PS5 doesnt offer BC, they'll take a solid one on the chin for it. Forumites like to ramp and rave about how BC isnt a big deal because, "no one wants to play old games". But I'll unequivocally beg to differ. Let either MS or Sony not have BC next gen - see what happens. Watch gamers show where their loyalty truly lies.

Oh I definitely agree. Not having BC in the PS5 would be terrible PR regardless of what percentage of gamers actually use it. You don't want to miss features the other has at launch.

In terms of loyalty, I don't think gamers outside of fanboy losers have any. People jumping from PS2 to 360 and back to PS4 shows that.

Hell, over my gaming career my mains have been: NES, SNES, N64/PS1 (switched mid gen), PS2, 360, PS4.

I just end up gaming where ever has more games that I like and the right price/feature set. I usually end up owning them all (at least from PS2 gen on when I was making real money), but always end up with one with the vast majority of my playtime based on game line up and where my friends are.

That said, Sony would have to really fuck something up for PS5 not to be my main. Their first party games appeal to me more than the others as I love narrative driven games with top production values. Plus with MS I can just play their exclusives on PC or (maybe even elsewhere by then with Gamepass). Nintendo I'll probably keep around, but it's a rare year they get more than 10-15% of my playtime as I really only like their biggest franchises (mainline Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Smash and Animal Crossing mainly).

But they could still fuck it up and have me skip them if the price is crazy or there's some terrible consumer unfriendly practices (fully digital or something) that off puts me. As much as I love their games, it's not like I wouldn't have anything to play if I missed them as so many great third party games are coming out all the time and I miss a lot of them due to mostly playing Sony and Nintendo (and a little MS) exclusives. I'd just play more of those if Sony pissed me off some how.

Additionally, it'll ease the transition to next gen for some.

Now that is the one benefit I can get from BC. I never keep my consoles so being able to finish up any PS4 games I haven't gotten to would let me sell that off (or take advantage of the occasionally really good console trade in promos) and move on sooner. Hell, I might would do it near launch of the PS5 is quieter than my jet engine PS4 Pro.

 

[GMan72]

I hope XB does well. Great games are good for the industry and more selfishly my enjoyment of the hobby. But this notion that next gen is a clean slate is a false narrative. I have no doubt that XB can make a comeback but I'm just not a blind faith in PR guy. You have to show me these great games. Make my jaw drop like the first time I saw Horizon Zero Dawn, SFV, Ghost Of Tsushima. No CGI either like Ubisodt is accustomed to using. Show me that game running on the console and we're good.

1.Games
2.Games
3.Games
4.Games
5.Games

Preach!

More people want to play new games. If BC was as important as some say, everyone would be flocking to PC && mobile gaming. You guys all have phones right?

With that said, next gen from both Sony & Microsoft are being engineered by AMD from the same x86 architect as current gen. BC will most likely be there without any additional effort. Will it be used as a selling point, probably. Additionally, it'll ease the transition to next gen for some.

BC is a great feature and I hope PS launches with it. My point is that beyond us, hardcore gamers who converse on the topic, does it have as much pull as some core gamers think? Sony doesn't have BC now and are still breaking records while the console that does has made up PR to explain away their console sales.

 

[Foxbat]

They've shifted from sales being used to measure the growth of an instal base to sales only matter to investors?

EDMIX @dmaul1114 I agree with your points.

What this dude doesn't get is that I'm not saying that BC or GP aren't good for gaming. Or that the 1X's tflops aren't good for that console. Dude doesn't seem able to get past the PR XB is pushing and thinks that how we view gaming, on these gaming forums, is in tune with the broader consensus.

XB being confined to one region and losing month in month out in it's strongest market isn't an issue for some because they gravitate towards a CEO's PR. I'm a gamer. I couldn't care less about what Phil Spencer said on twitter. I'm a gamer. I judge my experiences with these consoles through the experiences they deliver.

It has been 3 years since XBOX introduced a new IP. 3 fucking years. 2 years since they won a NPD in their STRONGEST territory. THese people don't understand that the thing that matters most in gaming is mind share. XBOX has none. To the wider market it's a dormant device in terms of ip that can really push the console to the fore.

So they fall back on what Digital Foundry said about RDR2 etc And then the game releases and breaks records on PS. Best selling, Most preordered, most digital downloads etc etc etc etc. Why? Because 99.9% don't know who DF is. They've never seen a DF comparison vid. But the RDR2 marketing... The version that comes with that special revolver with the Ninja grip and samurai scope, that's only on Playstation.

All this netflix of games talk while omitting the fact that nextflix has a bevy of exclusive content makes me chuckle sometimes.

The debate you guys are having is interesting.

That being said... It's hard to take you serious when you post stuff like this.

"Xbox hasn't introduced a new IP in 3 years. 3 years."

Do you mean released? Unveiled at a show or something?

 

[DForce]

So Gavon gets upset with me that I was questioning MS lack of exclusives this gen on another thread and accused me of derailing MS thread and now he's here. Funny.

 

[Sparda]

So what company have the worst store on pc and fucked up october update?

 

[Snake29]

They're free to leverage cloud, but will they? Wait... So its okay that Sony is okay to leverage cloud of they choose to, but its not okay if Microsoft actually buys studios to make games? You can't even say with certainty that Sony will attempt to leverage cloud, can you? They havent even mentioned it which makes what you're wanting a one-sided story. So far as we know, Sony isnt interested in leveraging Cloud. Keep talking, breh...

And you can play every multiple platform game on Ps4 that you can on X. Thats true. But, there is a MAJOR difference. Can you guess what it is? I bet you can't. That's not meant as a joke.

Sony Media Cloud Services says hi! PSN says hi, PS Vue Says hi, PS Now says hi!

Stop talking if you don't know shit...

Hook, line and sinker.

Nah bro. If I gotta tell you, you aint been paying attention.

Well yeah, just throw in a gif, because you have no arguments. There are hardly any differences left between PSN en Live these days. I mean, i don't see any threads around here or anywhere else that PSN is slow for online games. I only see a thread when someone is crying when PSN is down and that doesn't happen often. Live had even more problems keeping it stable for the last 2 years.

 

[Klayzer]

Sony Media Cloud Services says hi! PSN says hi, PS Vue Says hi, PS Now says hi!

Stop talking if you don't know shit...



Well yeah, just throw in a gif, because you have no arguments. There are hardly any differences left between PSN en Live these days. I mean, i don't see any threads around here or anywhere else that PSN is slow for online games. I only see a thread when someone is crying when PSN is down and that doesn't happen often. Live had even more problems keeping it stable for the last 2 years.

Those services don't count. It only counts when MS promotes customer services.

 

[Snake29]

Those services don't count. It only counts when MS promotes customer services.

Same story with exclusives. Now that Microsoft throws money at a wall, exclusives is everything right now and it will also do way better then what Sony can deliver.

PlayStation is doomed next-gen because they are lazy, can't deliver any game for 2019. Crackdown 3 will be GOTY.

 

[GMan72]

The debate you guys are having is interesting.

That being said... It's hard to take you serious when you post stuff like this.

"Xbox hasn't introduced a new IP in 3 years. 3 years."

Do you mean released? Unveiled at a show or something?

When was the last time XBOX introduced a new AAA exclusive ip? Spoiler: It has been over 3 years. And that's with me being really lose with the term AAA.

SOT was the last new exclusive game that XBOX introduced. That was 15th of June 2015.

We are close to 3 years and 6 months. And if XBOX doesn't deliver a new AAA ip between now and E3 2019, it'll be 4 years.

Imma let the stark reality sit and digest.

 

[sendit]

I think they were mostly meaning how focused Sony is on single player games with their first party stuff, during an era when the big profits are in MP service games.

The market is saturated with multiplayer games. For Sony to come out with highly tailored story driven games and be profitable is pretty amazing.

Same story with exclusives. Now that Microsoft throws money at a wall, exclusives is everything right now and it will also do way better then what Sony can deliver.

PlayStation is doomed next-gen because they are lazy, can't deliver any game for 2019. Crackdown 3 will be GOTY.

Easy win for Microsoft. Crackdown 3 > Cyberpunk 2077