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South Florida has affordable housing crisis, shipping containers suggested as housing
- Thread starter bman94
- Start date
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Please stop trying to make reusing shipping containers a thing. The amount of work to make them safe...you could just build something new that looks like it was made of containers
travisbickle
Member
Problem is, these days young people would rather eat an avacado than live in a metal box!
This was concept art show how Brazil's Olympic Stadiums could eventually be useful. In that situation (massive buildings that were no longer in use) it made some sense. Here it doesn't appear nearly as well-intentioned.
Oh, it's worth noting that when I was doing on site support for one of our (4-6 year) construction jobs, they used these things as offices and they seemed alright.
Seth Enosh
Member
That's probably illegal in most states in the USA including Florida due to fire codes and building codes.Mr.Shrugglesツ;238917024 said:
Doubt this speaker was talking about illegal housing.
The way to solve rising rent prices is to build as much housing as possible in places people want to live - apartments, condos, town homes, duplex/triplex units. Supply and demand. If there are more houses than people who want to live there, rents will level or drop due to market forces. I've seen this where I live, many apartments are going up and I was able to renew my lease with a 0% rent increase as a result of the competition.
Hickbilly Deluxe
Banned
It's not a bad idea though? They aren't terribly expensive, readily available, and it's not like there is some shipping container shortage in florida that would cause problems.
.
This just screams Dystopian Future. Like the powers that be are trying to get us used to living in retrofitted prison cells.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Shipping containers are an exciting idea but not the solution to the problems.
Major problems with shipping containers home:
1) Shipping containers are not material efficient. If you took the same amount of steel by melting down a container, you could get a lot more housing. Probably 2x or 3x as much. So the containers are not material efficient and not anywhere near as cheap as they could be.
2) Containers in pictures look really cool when they are stacked in all sorts of strange ways like legos, but think about how dangerous it is. Having your house hang half-way outside or offset can ruin the structural integrity of it.
3) Micro homes is really cool, but once you put in all the sanitation, and systems for electricity, heat, AC, pipes, airflow, fire safety, the container becomes smaller and less liveable. It also becomes a lot more expensive.
Some people have this idea that you can just take a container, drill some holes in it, and then that is it.
How are you gonna drill for a toilet and a shower? how is the piping going to work once you stack that container on top of others? How are you going to get electricity?
Never the less I am exciting about the idea of moveable modular home. I think container home has the right idea. Think about that container is the most easily transportable thing with the amount of cranes, trucks and ships who transport these containers all over the world. It's the perfect standard for transporting all over the world.
Containers can easily be sent in after humanitarian crisis or disasters. Containers can be taken up and shipped away. Containers have few of the problems that many other materials have.
What we need is a new modular system with a prefix for electricity/heat/sanitation/water/exits/airflow. If we build a new system of modularity, we can make a system where you can actually easily stack the containers on top of each other in a much more cost effective way, and a much more safe way.
It needs to be designed cleverly with the idea that you can just slide it in and hook it up, and you're good to go.
At the same time you'd also need a form of modularity, so two units can be fit together. Imagine if you lived alone, met someone, and you could combine your units into one larger. that you could transport your unit with you when you moved across the country. If the unit fits on a truck, a freight train, or a boat and can be lifted with cranes, you're able to create a enviornment where you can more easily transform neighborhoods.
Clever design as far as furniture would be something like easily accesable hidden walls, beds hidden folding out from the wall. built in closets.
materials that these should be build from should flexible and removeable, so each of the 6 frames could added or removed. I imagine you'd have a container dimension sized base living quarter unit, and then a square unit with the same depth most people would add on the end of the unit as a bathroom.
So prefixed additions, build in standard measurements for windows, airflow doors, would make it truly modular and not waste materials.
Finally, the materials themselves should reflect the place its being build. In Qatar you'd need something that pulls heat away from the main compartment (like Aluminium, but obviously that would not be a cost effective material), and in Russia, you'd need something that keeps the heat inside.
But I think one of the solutions to all of this might be solar panels. I imagine something like you would have a base frame with solar panels, and then fit containers inside. So imagine a sort of container holder. that is hooked up to the local electricity grid and water and sewage facility. You then just slide in containers, and on the backside you have pre built steelstairs, that allows people on higher floors to get down.
Containers are really cool, but they are like a alpha prototype. Now we need to get into beta and try some different ways of taking a modular design, but reducing cost, material while increasing safety.
It will require really smart engineering a new standard. How do you pay for your electricity? how do you determine how many units you can have in a space before it becomes unsafe? do you risk fire hazards with a open modular system? How do you make sure there is enough electricity for everyone? is there any unforseen problems with just hooking / unhooking mobile units on and off with regards to sewage, water, electricity and heat?
how would you combine several units? would every unit facility need a crane? could you have a mega park with 1000 units? how does someone on the bottom get electricity from solar if the higher units are blocking it? would you need special infrastructure and tech to slide a container in and out? what are the limits of combining several units? how do you make sprinkler and piping with the walls? would you have pipes in the studs or in the floors or ceilings? is there a steel beam that holds it together? what are the problems if someone wants to have a tall narrow two story building, or make a L shaped home? could you make a fat stack and place 3 buildings next to one another?
what materials could you build out of in the most cost effective way? how do you make a modular system that will be future or foolproof 30-50 years from now? do you make different standards based on different countries? how much customization inside does a owner have to make or build inside? does the owner have any choice of how and where the kitchen or the bathroom is? how much cheaper is it all going to be compared to be building a wooden house?
But the idea of the modular home is truly amazing. what could make it even more so, is imagining if you could have other modular parts you could add, like a square garden or front porch.
The problem as I see it, is that the more you think about it, the more you get away from the naive (but really cute) idea that you can just dumb a container in the middle of jungle and then everything is perfect. It just isn't that simple.
Major problems with shipping containers home:
1) Shipping containers are not material efficient. If you took the same amount of steel by melting down a container, you could get a lot more housing. Probably 2x or 3x as much. So the containers are not material efficient and not anywhere near as cheap as they could be.
2) Containers in pictures look really cool when they are stacked in all sorts of strange ways like legos, but think about how dangerous it is. Having your house hang half-way outside or offset can ruin the structural integrity of it.
3) Micro homes is really cool, but once you put in all the sanitation, and systems for electricity, heat, AC, pipes, airflow, fire safety, the container becomes smaller and less liveable. It also becomes a lot more expensive.
Some people have this idea that you can just take a container, drill some holes in it, and then that is it.
How are you gonna drill for a toilet and a shower? how is the piping going to work once you stack that container on top of others? How are you going to get electricity?
Never the less I am exciting about the idea of moveable modular home. I think container home has the right idea. Think about that container is the most easily transportable thing with the amount of cranes, trucks and ships who transport these containers all over the world. It's the perfect standard for transporting all over the world.
Containers can easily be sent in after humanitarian crisis or disasters. Containers can be taken up and shipped away. Containers have few of the problems that many other materials have.
What we need is a new modular system with a prefix for electricity/heat/sanitation/water/exits/airflow. If we build a new system of modularity, we can make a system where you can actually easily stack the containers on top of each other in a much more cost effective way, and a much more safe way.
It needs to be designed cleverly with the idea that you can just slide it in and hook it up, and you're good to go.
At the same time you'd also need a form of modularity, so two units can be fit together. Imagine if you lived alone, met someone, and you could combine your units into one larger. that you could transport your unit with you when you moved across the country. If the unit fits on a truck, a freight train, or a boat and can be lifted with cranes, you're able to create a enviornment where you can more easily transform neighborhoods.
Clever design as far as furniture would be something like easily accesable hidden walls, beds hidden folding out from the wall. built in closets.
materials that these should be build from should flexible and removeable, so each of the 6 frames could added or removed. I imagine you'd have a container dimension sized base living quarter unit, and then a square unit with the same depth most people would add on the end of the unit as a bathroom.
So prefixed additions, build in standard measurements for windows, airflow doors, would make it truly modular and not waste materials.
Finally, the materials themselves should reflect the place its being build. In Qatar you'd need something that pulls heat away from the main compartment (like Aluminium, but obviously that would not be a cost effective material), and in Russia, you'd need something that keeps the heat inside.
But I think one of the solutions to all of this might be solar panels. I imagine something like you would have a base frame with solar panels, and then fit containers inside. So imagine a sort of container holder. that is hooked up to the local electricity grid and water and sewage facility. You then just slide in containers, and on the backside you have pre built steelstairs, that allows people on higher floors to get down.
Containers are really cool, but they are like a alpha prototype. Now we need to get into beta and try some different ways of taking a modular design, but reducing cost, material while increasing safety.
It will require really smart engineering a new standard. How do you pay for your electricity? how do you determine how many units you can have in a space before it becomes unsafe? do you risk fire hazards with a open modular system? How do you make sure there is enough electricity for everyone? is there any unforseen problems with just hooking / unhooking mobile units on and off with regards to sewage, water, electricity and heat?
how would you combine several units? would every unit facility need a crane? could you have a mega park with 1000 units? how does someone on the bottom get electricity from solar if the higher units are blocking it? would you need special infrastructure and tech to slide a container in and out? what are the limits of combining several units? how do you make sprinkler and piping with the walls? would you have pipes in the studs or in the floors or ceilings? is there a steel beam that holds it together? what are the problems if someone wants to have a tall narrow two story building, or make a L shaped home? could you make a fat stack and place 3 buildings next to one another?
what materials could you build out of in the most cost effective way? how do you make a modular system that will be future or foolproof 30-50 years from now? do you make different standards based on different countries? how much customization inside does a owner have to make or build inside? does the owner have any choice of how and where the kitchen or the bathroom is? how much cheaper is it all going to be compared to be building a wooden house?
But the idea of the modular home is truly amazing. what could make it even more so, is imagining if you could have other modular parts you could add, like a square garden or front porch.
The problem as I see it, is that the more you think about it, the more you get away from the naive (but really cute) idea that you can just dumb a container in the middle of jungle and then everything is perfect. It just isn't that simple.
sixteen-bit
Member
Mr.Shrugglesツ;238917024 said:
Is that even legal?
Two times in a year? Your state doesn't have laws preventing that? It's illegal for rents to be raised more than once annually here. And not even once annually if certain conditions are met.
plagiarize
Banned
You aren't going to need housing in South Florida for long.
Saint Gregory
Member
I just moved to Miami and yes, the housing costs are pretty bad down here. I'm staying with family until I can get settled and find someone to rent my place back in MD but wherever I eventually settle is going to hit my wallet hard. At least the weather is nice.
peteykirch
Member
I got bored so I went to Zillow set max price at 249K and still had over 500 properties show up for Broward County.
I think the issue is that people are wanting to spend peanuts but still get a top of the line house situated right on the beach.
I think the issue is that people are wanting to spend peanuts but still get a top of the line house situated right on the beach.
Shit worked in Ready Player One. People shit on Cline as a writer but dude was onto something with The Stacks.
Hickbilly Deluxe
Banned
For the first point, I think the idea is to take something that is already available and reuse it. The amount of energy needed to melt down and reuse the materials in the containers isn't small by any means, and would add considerable cost (plus a much larger co2 footprint for you tree huggers) to it all which would defeat a major bonus to the plan.
For the second point, you wouldn't stack them like some idiotic art project. You would stack them like you would on a ship, meaning their stability would be tied to the ground they are sitting on. Weld them together or use heavy bolt systems so they can be unstacked with ease and they won't be going anywhere anytime soon. And if you have to have some offsetting, do about 4 feet every other level to make walkways on either side. Most are 48 feet long, so you aren't sacrificing any real stability doing it.
As for wiring/plumbing and whatnot, just look at modern day campers. They manage to make very good use of very little space. You could probably run a single 9x9 runner down one side for water and electric tying together a small bathroom and kitchenette, and a 4x4 runner on the other side for just electric. Use 4 inch joists for drywall, spray foam insulation for temp control, put a wall A.C. unit on one side with a window, door on the other with a smaller window.
There, solved your three issues.
Thise would actually hold up really well with the addition of hurricane shutters.
Insulation is an issue though. You have to do some work to make them efficient for a hot place like south Florida. I do like the different designs you can make with a modular setup. I'd to open to building one.
It's not that simple. Proximity to work/school in a region with no adequate public transportation is much more important than living by the beach.
And the age and general condition of a property. Who wants to buy a 30-50 year old property for $250k? Homes are things that sit out under the sun and in the rain and rot. The wiring and plumbing rot. The land gets depressed. I'm not paying $250k for some old shithole that would have cost less than half that prior to the bubble, especially when people aren't earning more than they did back then.
Eye for an Eye
Member
You do realize how many shitty neighborhoods there are in Broward? Hell I wouldn't even live west of 441 in Hollywood, but Hollywood also extends to the beach with multi-million dollar homes. South Florida is no different than other large metropolitan area. There are decent neighborhoods and really shitty neighborhoods. In fact, a lot of them.
And $250,000 mortgage is still a couple thousand a month plus utility costs and insurance costs. That should not be the price of a starter home. A starter should be like $100,000. Even then, that's about $1200 a month. You can get a 600 sq ft house in Opa Locka for $150,00. But your life expectancy will probably decrease by 95%.
Plus Florida has some of the worst wages for the size of the economy. We might talk about housing costs in San Fran, but there are tech companies out there that pay well enough to live out there. Florida is tourism. Tourism doesn't pay well except to those that own the fancy hotels and expensive restaurants. Florida is not the leader in anything else, not in Medical, Technology jobs, universities, and hell, even the professional sports teams suck. The rich go down and control the housing costs, but only live there maybe 1% of the year there. It's their little playground and leaves the rest of normal civilization to fend on pennies. Money is brought to Florida, not created there.
Netherscourge
Banned
Sounds like "the stacks" from Ready Player One.
nillapuddin
Member
I'm getting married next summer and the wife and I want to leave our rented condo ($950 month, 3/2, 1100sq ft) and buy a house and even here in fort myers/naples area its starting to get veryyyy expensive.
we both work in naples but we cant afford to live anywhere near it, florida sucks.
we both work in naples but we cant afford to live anywhere near it, florida sucks.
peteykirch
Member
I come from Central NJ where a starter home is well over 450-500K.
That's the reason why my GF and I are eagerly saving to get out of dodge and move to the Charlotte NC area. Also looking at Florida near Kissimmee and Deltona.
BattleMonkey
Member
How the hell do you not die from heat? I've worked with shipping containers for years in FL and they get to be 115+ degrees easily, it's like being in a locked car with the power off. There is no insulation of any kind, just metal walls and with the heat bearing down on them, they are just giant brick ovens.
LinkAndEpona
Banned
We have a multilevel pub made of shipping containers, it's pretty cool.
That said in not sure I would want to live in a shelter made up of them.
That said in not sure I would want to live in a shelter made up of them.
this. The idea wasn't made for America (TM)
Zoe
Member
You don't honestly believe they leave these shipping containers as-is, do you?
From the inside you can't even tell it's a shipping container. I had to drag the husband away from a demo home at a Home & Garden show cause he thought it was so cool.
Fox Mulder
Member
Do shipping containers float? Should be a pretty marketable feature for Florida homes soon.
I'm sure the nice ones still cost like $2000 a month. Trendy things.
I'm sure the nice ones still cost like $2000 a month. Trendy things.
AliasGreed
Member
Yeah prices are crazy down here. I was just out of college in 2010 when we had the housing crises and regret not buying a home (I also had 0 money). I bought a small apartment a couple years later. Now that I'm married and want to start a family I'm screwed. I refuse to be house poor. I rather just stick my family in my 1 bedroom apt.
If things don't improve I'll probably search for jobs outside South Florida so I can afford a good home in a safe neighborhood.
I'll search and try to get Lucky.
If things don't improve I'll probably search for jobs outside South Florida so I can afford a good home in a safe neighborhood.
I'll search and try to get Lucky.
Maybe they can place the metal containers on a barge and they can live at sea.
Thelonelykoopa
Member
Sorry Nope, As far as Tiny Houses go : Yurts for life!!!!
Lord Frieza
Member
I don't know much about shipping container houses, but I feel like they would not hold well under the hard storms Florida is known for.
I just moved to Miami and yes, the housing costs are pretty bad down here. I'm staying with family until I can get settled and find someone to rent my place back in MD but wherever I eventually settle is going to hit my wallet hard. At least the weather is nice.
What city are you looking in?
I thought we did have those but I haven't been able to find them. Our rent went up by $5 in February, then $60 this month.
Lord Frieza
Member
How in the world did housing and renting prices get so out of control in the US?
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
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Hickbilly Deluxe
Banned
Everyone wants to live in certain areas, not everyone can fit. Supply and demand.
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