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[Jag]

For people in South Florida, how much of these rising housing costs are blamed on all the snowbirds from up north moving there when they retire?

Wealth in South Florida comes from a few different places. There is a tremendous amount of South American money in real estate here. It's much more stable than their own countries even with a volatile market.

Florida also doesn't have a state income tax and also a homestead exception which are extremely beneficial for wealthy folks.

When I moved here in 2000 from NYC I was shocked at how much lower the cost of living was.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Everyone wants to live in certain areas, not everyone can fit. Supply and demand.

Is it "want" or need due to a job location? I mean I guess people can make hour or two commutes, but that seems like a tone of time and money wasted along with the environmental issues that go with that.

 

[old manatee]

I heard that generation Z gets hard as the Rock of Gibraltar at the thought of living in a refrigerator box.

 

[The Albatross]

How in the world did housing and renting prices get so out of control in the US?

Extreme housing prices are entirely local issues, not national issues. But, this isn't a case of extreme housing prices. San Francisco and Silicon Valley are a case of extreme housing prices, where any property goes for ridiculous prices. But SF is a geographic, political, and social quagmire. S

But even that said, like... $320,000 median home price is low compared to most desirable cities. I think the word "Crisis" is being hyperbolic. Doing a Zillow search, there are 490 for sale, non foreclosure properties between $100,000 - $275,000 in West Palm Beach Florida.

Is it "want" or need due to a job location? I mean I guess people can make hour or two commutes, but that seems like a tone of time and money wasted along with the environmental issues that go with that.

It's almost always want, especially if we're talking about vacation destinations like South Florida, or chic tech scenes like Silicon Valley or San Francisco as these articles are usually about. There are booming tech markets in cities that people can ~10, ~20minutes from work in large homes with driveways and yards for $200-$300k if they want to buy. But when somebody thinks they "need" to live in San Francisco or "need" to work in Silicon Valley, that's crap. People want to work in Silicon Valley, and the cost of getting $30k+ more a year for the same position in Boston, Austin, New York, or the 20+ other major tech hubs that are even less expensive, is that real estate is ridiculous there.

 

[Stinkles]

South Florida is probably the last place on the planet I'd want to live in a house like that. Have fun come hurricane season.

People keep saying this, but in fact Container homes can fare muchbetter in a hurricane. You put shutters up just like you would a normal house (often cantilevered or hinged portions of the original cut out panels for the windows and doors, and you're all set.

They are designed to withstand higher shear, impact and weight forces than "hurricane-proof" homes. You can stack 26 tonnes atop a single container perfectly safely.

 

[The Albatross]

People keep saying this, but in fact Container homes can fare muchbetter in a hurricane. You put shutters up just like you would a normal house (often cantilevered or hinged portions of the original cut out panels for the windows and doors, and you're all set.

They are designed to withstand higher shear, impact and weight forces than "hurricane-proof" homes. You can stack 26 tonnes atop a single container perfectly safely.

Yeah, to echo this... Container ships and the shipping containers that they haul were, sort of, build to withstand ocean storms...

 

[Version 3.0]

Sadly, I don't think this is what they have in mind.

Yeah, I definitely do not want to see a Florida take on this. These are cool though.

 

[Hickbilly Deluxe]

Is it "want" or need due to a job location? I mean I guess people can make hour or two commutes, but that seems like a tone of time and money wasted along with the environmental issues that go with that.

Unless your job is super specialized to that area, nothing is really stopping people from going elsewhere for work. Most people that can ask for a close to or over 6 figure salary can ask for moving costs to relocate to an area where housing costs don't outpace the income levels to painful degrees. But if they want to live in big cities or trendy areas, their leg to stand on arguing wise when it comes to housing prices is pretty wobbly at best.

Now if you are talking service workers, you have a case. It really sucks for them if they have to live so far out from their jobs that escape is impossible. That in turn though can be blamed on the same pricks that help keep housing prices sky high. Why build low income housing when you can build expensive condos and apartments?

 

[RelentlessRolento]

Man this whole thing pisses me off.

As a Broward based artist who just got a better paying job and is just about to start looking for a home locally... I'm very pissed about this. It just comes off as brushing the problem to the side.

The dumb thing is that almost all of Downtown Miami is now just overly dumb to afford rent or try to and it's been getting worse. Alot of the problem comes from foreigners (I don't mean this in a discriminatory way, more of just alot of international residents) that bring money (I partially blame Art Basel for this) in combination with short term thinking /quick turn around based real estate just destroyed all the standards that should be in place to facilitate permanent residents.

I am not someone who understands the housing system that well but I do see how just overtly problems are pushed aside for others to have to deal with.

 

[Sanke__]

To people that keep saying it doesn't sound that high, teachers start at under 30k in Florida

 

[Zoe]

To people that keep saying it doesn't sound that high, teachers start at under 30k in Florida

The three counties listed in the OP start at a minimum of 40k.

 

[Vyrance]

I live just a bit north in St. Lucie county. I have friends that live here but all drive down to Palm Beach for work just because housing is too expensive there. I bought a 2/2 house here in Ft. Pierce for $110,000. Much cheaper up here.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Came here for typical Gaf response, got typical Gaf response.

Standardization and modulation is the future, it will be possible to even move the houses eventually, such as to be closer to work, or to be repurposed from student appartement to whatever else.

The best part about posts like these is that they're systematically wrong at actually reading what the response was

Replies by major category up until your post:
1. Positive (including jokes and providing useful info): 20
2. Positive, but questions about South Florida: 8
3. Broadly that affordable housing prices are the major issue here, not just materials construction: 7
4. This is bad: 2
5. How does this work: 2

Get off your high horse.

 

[Zee-Row]

Miami is like San Francisco but with no mass transit.

 

[Stinkles]

The best part about posts like these is that they're systematically wrong at actually reading what the response was

Replies by major category up until your post:
1. Positive (including jokes and providing useful info): 20
2. Positive, but questions about South Florida: 8
3. Broadly that affordable housing prices are the major issue here, not just materials construction: 7
4. This is bad: 2
5. How does this work: 2

Get off your high horse.

 

[Zee-Row]

I hope this never happens to Tampa but I imagine these people will eventually make their way north.

 

[Jag]

I hope this never happens to Tampa but I imagine these people will eventually make their way north.

I see it moving north now, but on the east coast of Florida. Broward and WPB are building like crazy to keep up with the demand, driving up prices and driving people further north into Palm Beach and into areas that were empty a few years ago.

I live just a bit north in St. Lucie county. I have friends that live here but all drive down to Palm Beach for work just because housing is too expensive there. I bought a 2/2 house here in Ft. Pierce for $110,000. Much cheaper up here.

Like this.

 

[LifEndz]

Telling poor people to live in a shipping container. Jesus Christ.

 

[Vegetable Lasagna]

Welcome to the club. If I was in Florida I'd just move because, Florida. But I like the Bay Area too much. Halp? I'd live in a shipping container provided I can get good internet to it. Do they have new appliances? I'm scared to use the 150 year old stove/oven in my apartment I'm paying ridiculous rent on. The brand is so old I don't think the internet is even aware of it.

 

[One Eyed Willy]

Tiny home and shipping containers are actually becoming popular, the article isn't very far off.

 

[Zoe]

Telling poor people to live in a shipping container. Jesus Christ.

Are you actually familiar with shipping container homes?

 

[Mohonky]

Telling poor people to live in a shipping container. Jesus Christ.

There's always the streets I suppose......


No but seriously shipping containers are actually a very viable option.

 

[ZOONAMI]

It's basically the same concept as living in a trailer home / camper. Housing costs are getting out of hand but that's the market. Perhaps a more liberal admin will combat this with fronting down payments and keeping interest rates very low.

I actually would kind of like living with a camper I pull with my car, but I'm weird.

 

[Gallbaro]

It's basically the same concept as living in a trailer home / camper. Housing costs are getting out of hand but that's the market. Perhaps a more liberal admin will combat this with fronting down payments and keeping interest rates very low.

I actually would kind of like living with a camper I pull with my car, but I'm weird.

That actually makes housing much, much more expensive. People buy what they can afford cash flow wise. When you subsidize deposits, prices go up. When you decrease interest payments, prices go up.

Housing prices need to collapse for the next generation to afford it. The issue with housing prices is when they collapse, someone else is loosing wealth.

 

[Stinkles]

It's basically the same concept as living in a trailer home / camper. Housing costs are getting out of hand but that's the market. Perhaps a more liberal admin will combat this with fronting down payments and keeping interest rates very low.

I actually would kind of like living with a camper I pull with my car, but I'm weird.

Only the container homes can be much higher quality (typically). Ultimately energy efficiency and footprint efficiency are second only to location. There's a trailer park in Malibu where some of the homes are million-plus dollars and tons of waterfront trailer homes on Florida keys that aren't much cheaper than nearby real homes.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

How in the world did housing and renting prices get so out of control in the US?

As others have said, it's a very localized issue. A lot of it is due to the increasingly pervasive idea that you have to live in a major metro area. From my experience, Des Moines, Columbus OH, or Kansas City are all perfectly fine places to live, with numerous large employers, cultural activities, and sports and entertainment options. Listen to people online, however, and you'd think anything other than LA, NYC, Chicago, Miami, Denver, and a handful of other cities were post-apocalyptic wastelands only a fool would dare to live in. Yes, those places are nice, but so are reasonable commutes and cost of living.

 

[Abstrusity]

Shipping container homes are fine as long as they're priced in consideration.

Stacking them about is...not particularly fun, but the most pressing issues I have with it are plumbing, insulation (south florida heat and moisture are NOT A JOKE) and hurricane-proofing. Everything else can be dealt with.

 

[Zoe]

It's basically the same concept as living in a trailer home / camper. Housing costs are getting out of hand but that's the market. Perhaps a more liberal admin will combat this with fronting down payments and keeping interest rates very low.

Many places already have down payment assistance, and rates are still at historic lows.

 

[Reptars Revenge]

There has been a lot of news about shipping container housing. A billionaire is making a bunch for the homeless.

 

[Gallbaro]

Many places already have down payment assistance, and rates are still at historic lows.

Hence one of the contributing reasons that housing is so expensive. People can still afford the payments.

 

[JZA]

I lived in those while deployed in Iraq (CHUs), they're luxury compared to the poor smucks in tents.

I was also going to say that I also saw some really snazzy container living units on my deployment, although I had been in a tent. Regardless of whether or not you think defense contracting = fraud/waste/abuse, some of those contractors were pretty talented in what they could rig up.

 

[otake]

It's supply and demand.

I was offered a job in miami that paid me $30K more than what I was making. Even with that raise, the housing costs were such that I would actually make less money by moving.

I see essays and news reports trying to get a solution from the government when there can't be any. Really, innovations like these shipping containers are the only option other than commuting. Fact is, inevitably, the city will grow or companies will move. In my case, I convinced my employer to let me work remotely.

This is happening in many cities around the world. It wont change. Young people need to either deal with it or move to smaller cities.

 

[Fenderputty]

Not much. There are flood zones people are aware of, but homes typically are not built on an elevated foundation or anything like that. Not even in upper class neighborhoods like Coral Gables (and if they're sitting on any type of elevation, it must be subtle). On the other hand, there aren't really basements there.
.

So the example everyone is freaking about is actually possible with a different window system. It's about a 1" raised foundation (cheaper and less labor intesive than slab on grade) where the structure is secured to the concrete footings

There is zero evidence to support this statement.

What? Are you referring to SF NIMBYism or SO FL?

 

[Cynar]

condescending crap aside, why are new college graduates even considering buy a house. That's not something you should do anywhere near starting your life as an adult. Wait a few more years. Rent a cheap apartment.

Yeah. Gotta get used to that lower standard of life right? Boomers really fucked us (gen x and millennials) and got theirs. Good times when high school graduates could buy a home.

 

[Gallbaro]

So the example everyone is freaking about is actually possible with a different window system. It's about a 1" raised foundation (cheaper and less labor intesive than slab on grade) where the structure is secured to the concrete footings



What? Are you referring to SF NIMBYism or SO FL?

Rereading your post, I agree with your statement. Apologies.

 

[otake]

Yeah. Gotta get used to that lower standard of life right? Boomers really fucked us (gen x and millennials) and got theirs. Good times when high school graduates could buy a home.

Housing is incredibly affordable in America. People don't have to live in Miami or NYC. Commuting is not terrible.

In my industry, people make money. When I visit NYC, everyone I talk to has a commute of at least 1 hour. They either live in new jersey, long island or long island city. These are the midmanagement guys. The only one I knew who actually lived in NYC was the VP.

It's just a fact of life. Affordable housing involves commuting. Millennials can afford housing if they set their mind to it.

 

[Gallbaro]

Housing is incredibly affordable in America. People don't have to live in Miami or NYC. Commuting is not terrible.

In my industry, people make money. When I visit NYC, everyone I talk to has a commute of at least 1 hour. They either live in new jersey, long island or long island city. These are the midmanagement guys. The only one I knew who actually lived in NYC was the VP.

It's just a fact of life. Affordable housing involves commuting. Millennials can afford housing if they set their mind to it.

"Drive until you qualify" in NYC is two hours. A huge problem in NYC is Paris type density does not exist out of the inner boroughs.

 

[Eye for an Eye]

Everyone wants to live in certain areas, not everyone can fit. Supply and demand.

Every tourist wants a vacation home is the problem.

I don't know much about shipping container houses, but I feel like they would not hold well under the hard storms Florida is known for.

You do realize the Pacific ocean has way harsher conditions than the Atlantic? These containers are built to withstand anything. Way stronger than any home built before 2000, when the final phase of regulations went into affect after Hurricane Andrew.

I come from Central NJ where a starter home is well over 450-500K.

That's the reason why my GF and I are eagerly saving to get out of dodge and move to the Charlotte NC area. Also looking at Florida near Kissimmee and Deltona.

I lived in Kissimmee. It's not too bad. The tourism industry dropped it hard due to lack of car travellers. No one drives out 192 anymore, so its becoming more residential focused. And there's a few decent areas to the west side of Disney as well. I'd probably look north or south of Deltona. Major tourist area and probably higher rates than what could be found just outside that area.

 

[otake]

"Drive until you qualify" in NYC is two hours. A huge problem in NYC is Paris type density does not exist out of the inner boroughs.

Same is true in Paris. Everyone I know who works in Paris does not actually live in Paris.

Granted, the french do have a much better public transportation system. Still, a lot of people drive to the train station. It's basically a two hour commute. For a lot of people, it's worth it.

sitting around hoping for the government to magically make houses at $150K in manhattan isn't going to happen. Even if they had a program for it , supply and demand would inevitably increase the price.

Here's what a friend did. He lives in Atlanta, where affordable housing is also scarce. He rented a small apartment within the ring, the cheapest one he could find. He stayed there until he saved enough money to buy a $300K townhome. He had to save quite a bit to get a big enough downpayment to make the mortgage manageable. I did a very similar thing.

I'm not saying there isn't a problem, I am saying that there things we can do to make it manageable.

 

[Gallbaro]

Same is true in Paris. Everyone I know who works in Paris does not actually live in Paris.

Granted, the french do have a much better public transportation system. Still, a lot of people drive to the train station. It's basically a two hour commute. For a lot of people, it's worth it.

sitting around hoping for the government to magically make houses at $150K in manhattan isn't going to happen. Even if they had a program for it , supply and demand would inevitably increase the price.

Here's what a friend did. He lives in Atlanta, where affordable housing is also scarce. He rented a small apartment within the ring, the cheapest one he could find. He stayed there until he saved enough money to buy a $300K townhome. He had to save quite a big to get a big enough downpayment to make the mortgage manageable. I did a very similar thing.

I'm not saying there isn't a problem, I am saying that there things we can do to make it manageable.

No one is asking for that. What I am asking for is fuck local community boards and upzone everything. Much of New York is R1 and R2 zoned. Major cities in the USA are artificially constraining housing supply.

 

[The Greek Freak]

condescending crap aside, why are new college graduates even considering buy a house. That's not something you should do anywhere near starting your life as an adult. Wait a few more years. Rent a cheap apartment.

Cheap apartment, city with jobs, pick one.

 

[gregor7777]

South Florida is a tough place real estate wise. We're squeezed in a narrow corridor beteeen the Atlantic ocean and the Everglades. There is no land to build on in Broward county for example.

Yet we have have Northerners still moving down here and a ever expanding South American population. There is nowhere for these people to buy.

 

[mhayes86]

That shipping container remark was condescending as hell, but I've seen shipping containers used quite effectively as building replacements.

Check out the Re:Start Mall in Christchurch, NZ. Due to the damage from the earthquakes, they built an entire shopping district out of shipping containers. It's pretty impressive and was one of my favorite parts about Christchurch when I visited the country.

 

[Gallbaro]

South Florida is a tough place real estate wise. We're squeezed in a narrow corridor beteeen the Atlantic ocean and the Everglades. There is no land to build on in Broward county for example.

Yet we have have Northerners still moving down here and a ever expanding South American population. There is nowhere for these people to buy.

Yes Miami is green-belted. But by-and-large the area has chosen to prevent split lots and vertical density. It has plenty of spare capacity for more bedrooms, just refuses to use it.

 

[Hickbilly Deluxe]

Cheap apartment, city with jobs, pick one.

Or you can live where you can have both. Those options do exist if you are willing to live outside of the big trendy areas of the country. If you aren't willing to live elsewhere, you have to eat the cost.

 

[Foffy]

As if people needed literal sleeping quarters to remind them that they are seen as stock in their own culture...

 

[Kayhan]

Or you can live where you can have both. Those options do exist if you are willing to live outside of the big trendy areas of the country. If you aren't willing to live elsewhere, you have to eat the cost.

In my line of work you don't have many options outside the expensive trendy areas. At least if you want a happening career.

So it just becomes a rush to earn enough to afford those expensive apartments or homes!

 

[Hickbilly Deluxe]

In my line of work you don't have many options outside the expensive trendy areas. At least if you want a happening career.

So it just becomes a rush to earn enough to afford those expensive apartments or homes!

Again, that's the choice you make when it comes to the bolded. If you don't mind having a dull career doing something you enjoy, there are options. Plenty of people do it already. Not everybody can hit the fate lottery and have a life where they can enjoy their work, their career, and afford to live there. It's just not how the world works, and probably never will.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Cheap apartment, city with jobs, pick one.

The company my sister works for in the middle of Nowhereville, Iowa is looking at "big" cities like Mason City and Cedar Rapids because they can't find enough bodies. There might not be as huge of a pool of employers as NYC or LA, but there are jobs.

 

[peteykirch]

You do realize how many shitty neighborhoods there are in Broward? Hell I wouldn't even live west of 441 in Hollywood, but Hollywood also extends to the beach with multi-million dollar homes. South Florida is no different than other large metropolitan area. There are decent neighborhoods and really shitty neighborhoods. In fact, a lot of them.

And $250,000 mortgage is still a couple thousand a month plus utility costs and insurance costs. That should not be the price of a starter home. A starter should be like $100,000. Even then, that's about $1200 a month. You can get a 600 sq ft house in Opa Locka for $150,00. But your life expectancy will probably decrease by 95%.

Plus Florida has some of the worst wages for the size of the economy. We might talk about housing costs in San Fran, but there are tech companies out there that pay well enough to live out there. Florida is tourism. Tourism doesn't pay well except to those that own the fancy hotels and expensive restaurants. Florida is not the leader in anything else, not in Medical, Technology jobs, universities, and hell, even the professional sports teams suck. The rich go down and control the housing costs, but only live there maybe 1% of the year there. It's their little playground and leaves the rest of normal civilization to fend on pennies. Money is brought to Florida, not created there.

A 250k mortgage is nowhere near a couple grand a month.

30 years * 12 months = 360

250000/360 = 694.44 a month

Granted this is at zero % plus no one mortgages the entire price of the home, there is usually a downpayment of sorts.