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[K.Jack]

Every generation, the same OMG, this is unpossible!

All you have to do is follow Sony consoles since the PSX, and you will see a trend, where there is an approximate generational leap:

- 5-10 times the computational power (measured in single precision FLOPs)
- 16 times the total system and graphics memory (measured in MBs)

They are constrained by price and thermal envelope of the console enclosure each time, as long as Moore's law keeps chugging along, the next console cycle is unlikely to change.

For example:

PS3: 512 MB, 300 GFLOPs (X360 ~ 200 GFLOPs)
PS4: 8 GB, 2 TFLOPS (not as cutting edge)
PS5: 128 GB, 20 TFLOPs (ballpark)

You acknowledge the PS4 isn't cutting edge, but you apply Moore's Law to say that the PS5 will be?

Choose one.

 

[facetheslayer92]

I want native built from the ground up 4K so badly next gen. My 1080p Samsung is ancient and needs an upgrade.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Yes, I've heard. Apparently, Moore's law ceases to function in every speculation thread regarding a generational leap. And we cannot wait until technology has jumped enough in power to warrant said generational leap. So we reject historical precedence because of reasons. Yes, seen this all before.

You misunderstand what Moore's law is. Moore's law tells you nothing about power. It simply states roughly every year the number of transistors on a processor will double. However, there's been a noticeable slow down as we've gone further down the nm scale.

 

[ShadowFox08]

You misunderstand what Moore's law is. Moore's law tells you nothing about power. It simply states roughly every year the number of transistors on a processor will double. However, there's been a noticeable slow down as we've gone further down the nm scale.

Every 2 years

 

[Ushay]

Haha, hell no. Especially with price in mind.

We'll get around 10-12TF at best. There are so many considerations like heat, power etc. Those slides are pure math. We're seeing diminishing returns recently too.

 

[-Horizon-]

The most important thing is: will it not sound like a jet at launch?

 

[j^aws]

You acknowledge the PS4 isn't cutting edge, but you apply Moore's Law to say that the PS5 will be?

Choose one.

There isn't a choose one ultimatum. PS4 was born from a wounded Sony, after a relatively disastrous follow-up from PS2. They were not as cutting edge with PS4, so they could start the generation with better margins and recoup. They can adjust margins for profitability against Moore's law, and change performance and price accordingly.

 

[j^aws]

You misunderstand what Moore's law is. Moore's law tells you nothing about power. It simply states roughly every year the number of transistors on a processor will double. However, there's been a noticeable slow down as we've gone further down the nm scale.

I haven't misunderstood it. Power is the result of yields having more transistors available per surface area of a die.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Every 2 years

Now that's true. When moore stated his observation, transistor count was doubling every year. by the mid 2000s, it was 18 months. Now, it's roughly every 20-24 months. It's probably going to slow down again soon.

 

[Averon]

30TF?! I'd like what you're smoking to think that next gen console will get even close to that number. Be grateful if we get just half of that (15TF) in the future.

The appearance of mid-gen refreshes will make the power jump of next-gen consoles less impressive.

A jump from a 1.84TF PS4 to 10TF-12TF in a hypothetical PS5 sounds a lot more impressive than a jump from 4.2TF (PS4 Pro) to 10TF-12TF in a hypothetical PS5. The jumps looks even worse if you throw in the Xbox One X into the mix with its 6TF. Given the sorry state of AMDs GPU division, I have no reason to think they will release a slam dunk in Navi in terms of power efficiency.

By far the biggest jump these next-gen consoles will get are from the CPU side of things. Going from Jaguar cores to Zen 2 cores will give these next-gen consoles a massive leap in compute power.

 

[K.Jack]

There isn't a choose one ultimatum. PS4 was born from a wounded Sony, after a relatively disastrous follow-up from PS2. They were not as cutting edge with PS4, so they could start the generation with better margins and recoup. They can adjust margins for profitability against Moore's law, and change performance and price accordingly.

Now you're rewriting history. Sony (Mark Cerny) shoved all they could into the PS4's $399 pricepoint. They held nothing back. And what makes you believe Sony is going to throw profit margins out of the window, when it comes to PS5?

AMD's 20TF desktop Navi GPU alone is going to cost hundreds of dollars, on a large die. You expect it to be available in an affordable APU?

Moore's Law doesn't state that Sony will go back to losing hundreds of dollars per console sold.

I'm not even going to touch how insane it is to expect 128GB of RAM in a console that spec'd out two years from now.

 

[j^aws]

Now you're rewriting history. Sony (Mark Cerny) shoved all they could into the PS4's $399 pricepoint. They held nothing back. And what makes you believe Sony is going to throw profit margins out of the window, when it comes to PS5?

AMD's 20TF desktop Navi GPU alone is going to cost hundreds of dollars, on a large die. You expect it to be available in an affordable APU?

Moore's Law doesn't state that Sony will go back to losing hundreds of dollars per console sold.

I'm not even going to touch how insane it is to expect 128GB of RAM in a console that spec'd out two years from now.

I'm not rewriting history. You can believe whatever Mark tells you. The PS4 was not as cutting edge as it could've been.

No one has given a definite release date, so until that is disclosed, the speculation from myself maintains what has happened previously: Namely 5-10 times compute power and approximately 16x memory jump between generations.

What Sony does with its PS5 strategy will be hugely influenced by their competitors, so we will wait and see.

There is my speculation done.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Sorry, this 8GB RAM is nothing but a 'clear outlier'. See:

PS1 1994: 3MB (for both CPU/GPU)

+ 6 years, x12

PS2 2000: 36MB

+ 6 years, x14

PS3 2006: 512MB

+ 7 years, x 16

PS4 2013: 8192MB

... Saying that 8GB is an outlier, with an additional extra year in development is nonsense. In fact, arguing for an 8x increase with aforementioned exra year is clearly against the trend shown.

Every generation, when people get accustomed to fixed hardware, and lose track of Moore's law, we see this dissonance.

Um..this doesn't mean anything. Silicon is slowing down. Just because they managed to get 8GB in at the last second via a configuration trick in PS4 doesnt mean PS5 gets 128GB of ram just because you like arbitrary multipliers

 

[Inuhanyou]

30TF?! I'd like what you're smoking to think that next gen console will get even close to that number. Be grateful if we get just half of that (15TF) in the future.

The appearance of mid-gen refreshes will make the power jump of next-gen consoles less impressive.

A jump from a 1.84TF PS4 to 10TF-12TF in a hypothetical PS5 sounds a lot more impressive than a jump from 4.2TF (PS4 Pro) to 10TF-12TF in a hypothetical PS5. The jumps looks even worse if you throw in the Xbox One X into the mix with its 6TF. Given the sorry state of AMDs GPU division, I have no reason to think they will release a slam dunk in Navi in terms of power efficiency.

By far the biggest jump these next-gen consoles will get are from the CPU side of things. Going from Jaguar cores to Zen 2 cores will give these next-gen consoles a massive leap in compute power.

But as I keep saying, XB1X and Pro are completely different beasts than a PS5. XB1X and Pro can only be as eye catching as what PS4 and XB1 base are putting out. Resolution and refinements to the presentation can only go so far.

On the other hand, making exclusive games with the power of 10tflop, 16GB RAM and Zen 2 console will get you a far bigger difference in what your seeing on screen and what is actually going on in the game itself.

 

[Negotiator]

Not to mention, 128GB is overkill for 20 TFLOPs console. Is 64GB even necessary for 30 GFLOPs, especially if it ends up being GDDR6 when we have 6 TFLOPs consoles using 8GB GDDR5 and its not a weak point for Xbox one X? I can see 32GB GDDR6 for 20 GFLOPs. Maybe I'm wrong

XB1X has 12GB of GDDR5 memory. A 50% increase in RAM is necessary to support 4k textures in current-gen games.

Next-gen games will need a minimum of 32GB GDDR6 to accommodate more expansive worlds and 4k assets at the same time.

It wasn't some explicit measure of what a PS9 would be, but rather more of what each generation would bring and extrapolated into the future. The gist of all this was to emphasise that each generation should be a significant enough leap forward in power.

And Cell did exist back then - it was in the proof-of-concept stage as a cluster of 16 Emotion Engines: GScube.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GScube

The VU units inside the EE are not that different from programmable Vertex processors running shaders. And can be seen as ancestors of modern GPGPU. And you can break down modern APUs as having two significant parts: MIMD and SIMD, which the EE was, heavily focusing on the SIMD part...

Yeah, that's kinda true.

It simply states roughly every year the number of transistors on a processor will double. However, there's been a noticeable slow down as we've gone further down the nm scale.

Truth be told, we were stuck at 28nm for 5 years (2011-2016).

Imagine if 14-16nm/FinFET was available in 2013... we could have had PS4 Pro/XB1X as launch consoles.

So, yeah, can't really blame Sony (or MS) for the slowing trend.

 

[Akai__]

Not to mention, 128GB is overkill for 20 TFLOPs console. Is 64GB even necessary for 30 GFLOPs, especially if it ends up being GDDR6 when we have 6 TFLOPs consoles using 8GB GDDR5 and its not a weak point for Xbox one X? I can see 32GB GDDR6 for 20 GFLOPs. Maybe I'm wrong

It's the same as expecting Ryzen in the Xbox One X, really. Consoles get planned pretty early on, so any new tech that releases in the expected reveal time frame, will probably not make it into the new consoles. That's why I question if GDDR6/HBM will make it and because it will probably be pricey in the beginning. But since those are not revealed yet, that also remains to be seen, so it's just speculation by me.

There is no doubt that we will need more and more RAM, if we continue down the console 4K road. But to expect a jump from 8GB (12GB on the Xbox One X) to 64GB or even 128GB is a little crazy, in my eyes. I would say lets double the 12GB 1st and see where it leads to.

Um..this doesn't mean anything. Silicon is slowing down. Just because they managed to get 8GB in at the last second via a configuration trick in PS4 doesnt mean PS5 gets 128GB of ram just because you like arbitrary multipliers

Yep. You just have to pay attention to the currently recommended specs for Ultra settings and pretty much take it as the blueprint for next gen. The argument that a 16x multiplier is a clear indication is silly.

XB1X has 12GB of GDDR5 memory. A 50% increase in RAM is necessary to support 4k textures in current-gen games.

Next-gen games will need a minimum of 32GB GDDR6 to accommodate more expansive worlds and 4k assets at the same time.

3GB out of those 12GB shared RAM are still system reserved.

And where do you have your 32GB figure from? A 1080Ti is not even using all of it's 12GB VRAM, when you play 4K games on Ultra, let alone 4K games that are on "High" settings.

 

[Negotiator]

And where do you have your 32GB figure from? A 1080Ti is not even using all of it's 12GB VRAM, when you play 4K games on Ultra, let alone 4K games that are on "High" settings.

16 x 2GB GDDR6 chips in clamshell configuration at 256-bit bus = 32GB

OG PS4 has 16 x 512MB GDDR5 chips in clamshell configuration at 256-bit bus = 8GB

It's not really far-fetched. It's only a 4x jump over current-gen consoles.

1080 Ti may not suffice for next-gen games.

 

[Hermii]

16 x 2GB GDDR6 chips in clamshell configuration at 256-bit bus = 32GB

OG PS4 has 16 x 512MB GDDR5 chips in clamshell configuration at 256-bit bus = 8GB

It's not really far-fetched. It's only a 4x jump over current-gen consoles.

1080 Ti may not suffice for next-gen games.

Isn't a traditional jump around 16x? Thats 64gb.

Or in this gen it was only 10x dedicated to games. If we assume the OS allocation stays the same next gen at 3gb and its a 10x increase, then next gen will have 53gb.

 

[Negotiator]

Isn't a traditional jump around 16x? Thats 64gb.

Or in this gen it was only 10x dedicated to games. If we assume the OS allocation stays the same next gen at 3gb and its a 10x increase, then next gen will have 53gb.

16x would mean 128GB, but I don't think it will happen.

64GB is 8x and will only happen if HBM3 will be cost-effective enough for mass production by then.

4x is a conservative estimate based on existing tech. Nothing fancy IMHO.

53GB is a weird amount. Regarding OS allocation, I don't know if it's still 3-3.5GB. Has it been reduced with newer SDKs? Sony has been mum this gen.

 

[Duxxy3]

I'm thinking at most it will be 12 tflops.

 

[RoboPlato]

16x would mean 128GB, but I don't think it will happen.

64GB is 8x and will only happen if HBM3 will be cost-effective enough for mass production by then.

4x is a conservative estimate based on existing tech. Nothing fancy IMHO.

53GB is a weird amount. Regarding OS allocation, I don't know if it's still 3-3.5GB. Has it been reduced with newer SDKs? Sony has been mum this gen.

I think it’s down to 2. Sony talked about it a bit around the Pro launch. I think it’s still 3 on XBO.

 

[Negotiator]

I think it’s down to 2. Sony talked about it a bit around the Pro launch. I think it’s still 3 on XBO.

Pro has an extra 1GB of DDR3 memory on the southbridge to free up some GDDR5 RAM. OG PS4 only had 256MB of DDR3.

Does the OG PS4 only require 2GB for the OS?

 

[RoboPlato]

Pro has an extra 1GB of DDR3 memory on the southbridge to free up some GDDR5 RAM. OG PS4 only had 256MB of DDR3.

Does the OG PS4 only require 2GB for the OS?

512mb of the extra added to the Pro is dedicated to the OS and they talked about Pro having 6.5 available to games. That’s where I got the 6gb number from for the base PS4.

MS has talked about XBX having 9gb open to games with it’s 12gb so it seems safe to assume 3 there.

 

[Negotiator]

512mb of the extra added to the Pro is dedicated to the OS and they talked about Pro having 6.5 available to games. That’s where I got the 6gb number from for the base PS4.

MS has talked about XBX having 9gb open to games with it’s 12gb so it seems safe to assume 3 there.

Yes, but the question was about the OG/Slim models.

Pro has an extra 512MB for the OS/UI to render in native 4k and another 512MB for the game (sub)4k framebuffer. They only use it to increase the resolution, not for actual game assets. Base PS4 has nothing to do with this, since it lacks the extra 1GB of DDR3.

Back in the PS3 era, we didn't have any iterative consoles and Sony was very vocal about reducing the OS footprint from 120MB to 50MB. XBOX 360 only required 32MB and it supported party chat as well.

 

[scoobs]

The days of massive power upgrades for consoles are over. It's too cost prohibitive, and the reality is there won't be 30TF video GPUs on the market by the time PS5 is ready to release. Its likely already deep in development already, and while the final specs are not locked in, they are looking at what is available now.. meaning AMD Vega (meaning gtx 1080 levels of power)

 

[CEJames]

Why is this 9-month-old post being brought up now?

Well, I'm certainly glad it did because it gave quite the fucking laugh.

lol

*erm* excuse me

Spoiler

LMFAO

 

[LeleSocho]

8gb of ram was also laughed off when the idea was brought up

Read some of the replies in this thread. fucking lol.

8GB was (rightfully) laughed at because:
1) People expected the consoles to be out one year before they were actually released
2) People rightfully expected GDDR5 instead of the weak-ass DDR3 in the XOne

The 8GB in the PS4 was a relatively last minute addition thanks to SKHynix managing to double the density of their chips...

 

[Negotiator]

1) People expected the consoles to be out one year before they were actually released

Thank god that didn't happen, because we'd be stuck with Bobcat cores most likely.

Even in that case, 2GB GDDR5 would be way too low...

 

[Akai__]

16 x 2GB GDDR6 chips in clamshell configuration at 256-bit bus = 32GB

OG PS4 has 16 x 512MB GDDR5 chips in clamshell configuration at 256-bit bus = 8GB

It's not really far-fetched. It's only a 4x jump over current-gen consoles.

1080 Ti may not suffice for next-gen games.

32GB of RAM would still mean about ~230US$ just for RAM. That's just not feasible at the current prices, especially if you want your consoles to be 399$ or 499$.

But I'd still like to know why you think this:

Next-gen games will need a minimum of 32GB GDDR6

There is absolutely no way that any dev ever will require you to have 32GB MINIMUM for 4K in the next gen. That's also why a 1080Ti will still suffice for next gen, but you will probably play at "High", instead of "Ultra" settings.

 

[owasog]

Current gen launched with 2 year old midrange parts. Assuming PS5 launches in 2020, it will likely get 2018 midrange parts. That means a 4 core 8 thread Ryzen+ based APU with Vega CUs. How many CUs? Probably somewhere between 40 (XBox One X) and 64 (Vega 64)? Roughly GTX 1070/RX Vega 56 performance.

With HBM2 and SSDs still much more expensive than GDDR and HDDs, I doubt they will be included. 12 or 16GB GDDR6 + 1TB HDD or SSHD is my guess.

Is Ryzen R5-1400 + Vega 56 level performance worthy of nextgen? If not, then the PS5 will have to be a 2021 or later machine.

 

[Negotiator]

32GB of RAM would still mean about ~230US$ just for RAM. That's just not feasible at the current prices, especially if you want your consoles to be 399$ or 499$.

Correct. Current prices, not 2019-2020 ones...

There is absolutely no way that any dev ever will require you to have 32GB MINIMUM for 4K in the next gen. That's also why a 1080Ti will still suffice for next gen, but you will probably play at "High", instead of "Ultra" settings.

Ask yourself why a GTX 680 doesn't cut it for current-gen games anymore, despite it having superior flops/memory bandwidth.

Game devs will keep chasing bigger and bigger open worlds. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

 

[illamap]

Correct. Current prices, not 2019-2020 ones...

Didn't manufacturers scale down production of ram to focus more on mobile versions? So i doubt price will see major improvements.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Current gen launched with 2 year old midrange parts. Assuming PS5 launches in 2020, it will likely get 2018 midrange parts. That means a 4 core 8 thread Ryzen+ based APU with Vega CUs. How many CUs? Probably somewhere between 40 (XBox One X) and 64 (Vega 64)? Roughly GTX 1070/RX Vega 56 performance.

With HBM2 and SSDs still much more expensive than GDDR and HDDs, I doubt they will be included. 12 or 16GB GDDR6 + 1TB HDD or SSHD is my guess.

Is Ryzen R5-1400 + Vega 56 level performance worthy of nextgen? If not, then the PS5 will have to be a 2021 or later machine.

I would tend to agree with this as realistic. I can't see 2021 being likely as we wouldn't be getting rumours and comments 4 years out. Right now I favour 2019 being the prefered/target date but it is dependent on when 7nm comes through.

 

[Akai__]

Correct. Current prices, not 2019-2020 ones...

The prices have been going up and not down for RAM in the last couple years. They won't suddenly drop half in price, too.

Ask yourself why a GTX 680 doesn't cut it for current-gen games anymore, despite it having superior flops/memory bandwidth.

Game devs will keep chasing bigger and bigger open worlds. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

A GTX680 still can play games like Watchdogs 2 at 1080p /40FPS and Witcher 3 at 1080p/30FPS. All about tweaking the right settings and far away from unplayable. So, yes, it does still cut it.

You still didn't answer my question, though and I doubt that you have one that would support your claim, because it's not realistic to expect a MINIMUM of 32GB RAM.

 

[Hermii]

Current gen launched with 2 year old midrange parts. Assuming PS5 launches in 2020, it will likely get 2018 midrange parts. That means a 4 core 8 thread Ryzen+ based APU with Vega CUs. How many CUs? Probably somewhere between 40 (XBox One X) and 64 (Vega 64)? Roughly GTX 1070/RX Vega 56 performance.

With HBM2 and SSDs still much more expensive than GDDR and HDDs, I doubt they will be included. 12 or 16GB GDDR6 + 1TB HDD or SSHD is my guess.

Is Ryzen R5-1400 + Vega 56 level performance worthy of nextgen? If not, then the PS5 will have to be a 2021 or later machine.

I think console release schedules depends just as much if not more on when it financially makes sense to reset rather than what tech is worthy of next gen. Are jaguar cores worthy of this gen? Not really.

 

[Negotiator]

You still didn't answer my question, though and I doubt that you have one that would support your claim, because it's not realistic to expect a MINIMUM of 32GB RAM.

I answered your question: more expansive, immersive and bigger open world experiences.

Don't believe me? I don't care. Just bookmark this post and keep it for future reference.

 

[wonderful103]

8GB was (rightfully) laughed at because:
1) People expected the consoles to be out one year before they were actually released
2) People rightfully expected GDDR5 instead of the weak-ass DDR3 in the XOne

The 8GB in the PS4 was a relatively last minute addition thanks to SKHynix managing to double the density of their chips...

Not to mention the ps4 was originally specced out with 2. Yes, 2. Seriously. Some people on this board had the papers and knew it.

You're not getting a 30tf console.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

8GB was (rightfully) laughed at because:
1) People expected the consoles to be out one year before they were actually released
2) People rightfully expected GDDR5 instead of the weak-ass DDR3 in the XOne

The 8GB in the PS4 was a relatively last minute addition thanks to SKHynix managing to double the density of their chips...

Not that it really matters but PS4 has/had Samsung RAM chips I think.

 

[LeleSocho]

Not that it really matters but PS4 has/had Samsung RAM chips I think.

Oh was it Samsung? dunno why but i remembered SK Hynix.
Anyway the decision of 8GB was late in the design process.

 

[BigEmil]

The most important thing is: will it not sound like a jet at launch?

Well the hardwares that could go in PS5 is much more modern architecture and more efficient than PS4/XB1 hardware

8gb of ram was also laughed off when the idea was brought up

Read some of the replies in this thread. fucking lol.

I like reading threads like these what people thought at the time, anyone got link to thread about PS4 hardware reveal and everyone discussing about it

 

[Hermii]

Well the hardwares that could go in PS5 is much more modern architecture and more efficient than PS4/XB1 hardware

That doesnt really matter when it comes to noise levels though. What matter is power consumption and cooling solution. In other words how much heat is generated, and how is it cooled.

PS4 used a small cabinet and laptop fans, xbox used a large cabinet and larger fans.

Xbox is using a more expensive liquid cooling solution.

 

[eso76]

Haha, hell no. Especially with price in mind.

We'll get around 10-12TF at best. There are so many considerations like heat, power etc. Those slides are pure math. We're seeing diminishing returns recently too.

10/12 when a 6 TF console has been available for at least 2 years ?
Nah.
They shouldn't bother.

 

[RoboPlato]

Yes, but the question was about the OG/Slim models.

Pro has an extra 512MB for the OS/UI to render in native 4k and another 512MB for the game (sub)4k framebuffer. They only use it to increase the resolution, not for actual game assets. Base PS4 has nothing to do with this, since it lacks the extra 1GB of DDR3.

Back in the PS3 era, we didn't have any iterative consoles and Sony was very vocal about reducing the OS footprint from 120MB to 50MB. XBOX 360 only required 32MB and it supported party chat as well.

Right. Subtracting the DDR3 from the equation makes it pretty clear that it’s 6gb since half of that extra 1gb is for OS rendering and the other half is available to games.

 

[owasog]

I think console release schedules depends just as much if not more on when it financially makes sense to reset rather than what tech is worthy of next gen. Are jaguar cores worthy of this gen? Not really.

The Pro and X can barely run PS4/xbone games at 4K(cb) with a few bells and whistles turned on.

A slightly faster GPU may not even allow for noticeably better graphics if 4K remains the goal. Does a new console make sense financially when nobody buys it because they can't see the difference between PS4Pro and PS5? The Jaguars will be replaced, but is a faster CPU reason enough to buy a new console though?

 

[Eylos]

The Pro and X can barely run PS4/xbone games at 4K(cb) with a few bells and whistles turned on.

Is a faster CPU reason enough to buy a new console though? A slightly faster GPU may not even allow for noticeably better graphics if 4K remains the goal. Does a new console make sense financially when nobody buys it because they can't see the difference between PS4Pro and PS5?

https://youtu.be/TIgQQz5SNxs
I posted this on the page before, this IS what the NVidia volta can do, compare this to ffxv on PS4, its already a very good upgrade. Now we can only Hope ps5 manages to do this.

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

Xbox is using a more expensive liquid cooling solution.

XBX isn't really liquid cooled. I mean, technically vapor chamber has a small amount of liquid involved, but it's much more akin to a regular heatsink than what's usually thought as liquid cooling. Also, vapor chambers are not as esoteric as people tend to think.

 

[K.Jack]

I'm not rewriting history. You can believe whatever Mark tells you. The PS4 was not as cutting edge as it could've been.

No one has given a definite release date, so until that is disclosed, the speculation from myself maintains what has happened previously: Namely 5-10 times compute power and approximately 16x memory jump between generations.

What Sony does with its PS5 strategy will be hugely influenced by their competitors, so we will wait and see.

There is my speculation done.

In what way could it have been more "cutting edge", without taking a huge loss on the hardware?

https://youtu.be/TIgQQz5SNxs
I posted this on the page before, this IS what the NVidia volta can do, compare this to ffxv on PS4, its already a very good upgrade. Now we can only Hope ps5 manages to do this.

Hope PS5 manages to match a 21 billion transistor GPU, that is going to cost many thousands of dollars?

Let's not, because to do so is madness.

 

[Sad Affleck]

I'm desperately trying to understand the logic behind the OP's speculation but I'm drawing a blank. Even if the roadmap proves to be right on the money, Navi will be a whole family of products ranging from the extreme high end (the 30-teraflop card mentioned on the slide) to the extreme low end. Why would anyone think that a budget games console that is limited by cost, thermal and acoustic factors would use AMD best and most expensive chip?

 

[Hermii]

The Pro and X can barely run PS4/xbone games at 4K(cb) with a few bells and whistles turned on.

A slightly faster GPU may not even allow for noticeably better graphics if 4K remains the goal. Does a new console make sense financially when nobody buys it because they can't see the difference between PS4Pro and PS5? The Jaguars will be replaced, but is a faster CPU reason enough to buy a new console though?

I dont think Sony is in a hurry to abandon that 60+ million install base anytime soon. I think we got a long generation ahead of us.

 

[Negotiator]

I'm desperately trying to understand the logic behind the OP's speculation but I'm drawing a blank. Even if the roadmap proves to be right on the money, Back will be a whole family of products ranging from the extreme high end (the 30-teraflop card mentioned on the slide) to the extreme low end. Why would anyone think that a budget games console that is limited by cost, thermal and acoustic factors would use AMD best and most expensive chip?

Yeah, there's no way they're making a 300W console. Half of that is far more likely, hence 15TF.

I dont think Sony is in a hurry to abandon that 60+ million install base anytime soon. I think we got a long generation ahead of us.

And that's OK. Personally I can wait until 2021 for a big leap.

I'm also pretty sure game devs (like Kojima) would appreciate it too.