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[Ozriel]

I was looking forward to this but i won't even bother downloading it for free on gamepass if it is going to be a glorified mobile phone microtransactions game.

Who was asking for them to do this?

‘Mobile phone microtransactions’.
You cannot be serious with this. holy shit.

Oh Phil. Only thinking about the customers wallets and saving them the need to buy a newly developed and made game. What a lovely guy you are.

So when I pay a monthly fee to rent the core experience via GP. And any new content is paywalled behind additional micro transactions. Which drags out the same core experience. Whilst Xbox don't have to invest in the development of a fresh new game for years. Its me the customer benefitting.

Dont get me wrong, GAAS is what it is. Some of it I dont even mind. They're all at it. But this snake oil vendor spiel is what irks me. He has the audacity to be selling it to me on the sole basis that its for my benefit. As though its some brilliant customer friendly model. well...

You pay for a game. You get the full game. Full featured races, same tons of cars and tracks, updated multiplayer etc.

All this spiel is because you’re upset they don’t plan to target you with a numbered game in the next two years?

 

[adamsapple]

That's fine, if GAAS in this case means it will keep getting the kind of free / paid support Horizon 5 has, no problem.

I was looking forward to this but i won't even bother downloading it for free on gamepass if it is going to be a glorified mobile phone microtransactions game.

Who was asking for them to do this?

What a ridiculously terrible post.

 

[Portman]

Hearing that brings thoughts of Halo Infinite to mind with the long build time to remake it from the ground up and then advertise it as a long term game. And after the way that turned out it makes me worried the same could happen to Forza.

Normally I'd be excited for it but hearing that along with the info of tracks and features not launching with the game has me deciding to wait on this one. I've still got some of the previous games and other racing games to play too that helps with the wait. I just can't figure out how they've been working on this for around six years and yet it is going to launch in an incomplete state.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Haven’t the recent ones all been?

 

[adamsapple]

isnt this every racing game?

Yes.

All the recent Forza and Horizon games have had year(s) of support in terms of car, track, location packs.

 

[trent_the_gent]

‘Mobile phone microtransactions’.
You cannot be serious with this. holy shit.

Let's be realistic about this. This is basically a F2P game that they are cheekily putting behind a Gamepass paywall and then dumping microtransactions on top of.

As i said, i was looking forward to this and now i don't care about it at all any more because of this nickel and dime shit. I want to play feature complete games, not some "platform" for publishers to milk more money out of me. This is killing the industry.

 

[transformer]

Perfect example of game to have one per gen and be a GAAS. This is the right decision.

I agree. I’m old enough to remember people in an uproar about paid DLC. Now we get a ton of new content over time for free. Is that worse?

 

[King Dazzar]

You pay for a game. You get the full game. Full featured races, same tons of cars and tracks, updated multiplayer etc.

All this spiel is because you’re upset they don’t plan to target you with a numbered game in the next two years?

Look we could disappear down the rabbit hole of GaaS with regards your first comment. It was to GT7's detriment and I have no doubt it will be to FM8's too. But its a whole other debate.

To your second comment. No. Its not so much the GaaS aspect that irks me here, its Phil selling to me as though its for my benefit. I'd have far more respect if he just said, we're doing it as a GaaS. Its going to be brilliant. End of. Instead its his disingenuous sales pitch "Okay, well, now you need to move to Forza and plus one." And it's like, no, we want this to be a place that people feel like they can invest their time, they can invest their experience, and know that this is a place that we're going to be investing in Forza Motorsport for years to come."

At first I was pulled in by his honeyed words and his charisma. But more and more I cant stand the guy. He's talked shite for so long now. I'm just tired of it. That's all.

 

[clarky]

Well you know, the words "GAAS" triggerd a lot of retards acted like it was the end of the world. And i don't know why you dropped that game quickly? It has the best online features imo from any other race game, or was it the singleplayer?

I'm personally not sure what Forza is going to add to that, only that it is on Xbox.

It just didn't grab me they way i thought it would. And yes mainly in for the single player, it just felt like the series had not moved on at all since I last played.

 

[TransTrender]

Sounds like a threat after Halo Infinite and Redfall

 

[systemr123]

Sounds like a threat after Halo Infinite and Redfall

 

[Ozriel]

Sounds like a threat after Halo Infinite and Redfall

Redfall is a GaaS game?
I bet that’s news to the developer and publisher

 

[Heisenberg007]

"Yeah. Service platform, I hesitate a little bit because I think there's a lot of loadedness in what that means. I think what we see with Forza is the evolution of the experience as much about the tech as it is tracks and cars. And we know that, when people make an investment in the game, they want to make sure we continue to support the game. And in some ways, when you put a numeral on the end of the franchise, it instantly says, "Okay, well, now you need to move to Forza and plus one." And it's like, no, we want this to be a place that people feel like they can invest their time, they can invest their experience, and know that this is a place that we're going to be investing in Forza Motorsport for years to come."

Phil Spencer used 142 words to essentially say, "Yes, it's live service."

 

[StueyDuck]

*looks at infinite

 

[nikos]

Years of 60 FPS multiplayer?

 

[arkhamguy123]

Aw man sweet! I was wondering how I was gonna financially juggle starfield, Spider-Man 2, Batman trilogy remastered, Alan wake 2, avatar, forza

but now I can just skip forza and save $70! Yay!

 

[adamsapple]

*looks at infinite

Two games which are nothing alike ?

Phil Spencer used 142 words to essentially say, "Yes, it's live service."

Do you blame him? Read his second sentence, " I hesitate a little bit because I think there's a lot of loadedness in what that means. ".

Look at the loaded replies in this thread.

 

[Panajev2001a]

So Halo is gaas. Redfall is/was? gaas. Forza is Gaas. What's next?

This industry is fucked.

Mmmh… something something GamePass… something something…

In reality this means jack… it depends on how the game launches: if it is barebones and you get a drip feed of content just barely enough to keep you coming back but never quite satisfied and the start getting fleeced by micro transactions, well... That is the GaaS I fear and loathe… so we will see .

 

[StueyDuck]

Two games which are nothing alike ?

Yeah they share absolutely nothing... not like the publisher and live service model.

Both didn't come in hot with features missing and having technical difficulties reaching their ambitious initial target.

You are right there's absolutely 0 things in common between two live service games made by Microsoft for the Xbox series consoles and PC. Nothing at all.

Insert sarcastic gif for extra credits

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Well, that sucks. One of the main things I hate about GAAS is having to look at the same game, graphics, outdated engine, assets, etc for several years until they milk every little bit of cash out of it before you get the sequel.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The difference is the project delivery methodologies e.g. waterfall versus agile. FM, prior to 8, would've had a project plan for the game, and X number of DLCs. After that, the dev teams would move to developing the next title and EoL the previous.

A GaaS doesn't have an end date ("long or indefinite"). Content will be planned into sprints, and sprints will be delivered for all long as the game is making money. If FM8 followed the previous delivery model, it would be a release followed by X DLCs, and then T10 would work on FM9. FM8 content will continue to be delivered as long as the game is profitable. There's no end date for the game in mind, unless it totally bombs and MS doesn't feel like keeping T10 sprinting on it.

The other side is the difference in MVP of your product. In previous models, especially for software you planned/had to sell, the initial delivery tends to be a lot more feature packed (you plan to make money even before DLC’s) and content packed.

Once you shift gears so to speak and especially if you eye towards GamePass style models, you will naturally make your initial release the most MVP of the MVP’s and limit the amount of content you pack with it. You move as much as you can in your sprints post release, post release support, so that you do not “waste” money developing something without player telemetry and feedback but also that does not keep them coming back (stay engaged) with the service. It can also work very well for micro transactions too.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Well, that sucks. One of the main things I hate about GAAS is having to look at the same game, graphics, outdated engine, assets, etc for several years until they milk every little bit of cash out of it before you get the sequel.

That is the danger yes, once you couple that with an online service like GamePass (which further erodes game value for users, how much they pay for it) that need to have you coming back month after month after month.

 

[twilo99]

isnt this every racing game?

I can only think of iracing ..

 

[Panajev2001a]

Yeah they share absolutely nothing... not like the publisher and live service model.

Both didn't come in hot with features missing and having technical difficulties reaching their ambitious initial target.

You are right there's absolutely 0 things in common between two live service games made by Microsoft for the Xbox series consoles and PC. Nothing at all.

Insert sarcastic gif for extra credits

It does not have to be nefarious, it does not have to be a bad product launch like Infinite, but there is less incentive to make a Hail Mary launch and spend money developing content before release once you target player retention over time vs direct sales.

 

[Bernkastel]

The difference is the project delivery methodologies e.g. waterfall versus agile. FM, prior to 8, would've had a project plan for the game, and X number of DLCs. After that, the dev teams would move to developing the next title and EoL the previous.

A GaaS doesn't have an end date ("long or indefinite"). Content will be planned into sprints, and sprints will be delivered for all long as the game is making money. If FM8 followed the previous delivery model, it would be a release followed by X DLCs, and then T10 would work on FM9. FM8 content will continue to be delivered as long as the game is profitable. There's no end date for the game in mind, unless it totally bombs and MS doesn't feel like keeping T10 sprinting on it.

So, they should release a new title every 2 years? Or else Forza bad?

 

[twilo99]

*looks at infinite

They actually got it in a good state with the current season

 

[StueyDuck]

They actually got it in a good state with the current season

I mean I'm not going to discredit hard work. It's good that it's better now

But I'm also not going to celebrate spending money on a product only for it to be half baked and in a form of early access. Luckily battlepasses aren't mandatory for fun but the overall progression was borked at launch and was basically in beta.

Forza however (at least that I know of) doesn't have a F2P element

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Horizon copied Motorsport so Motorsport could copy Horizon.

This is nothing new for the broader franchise.

 

[acm2000]

I can only think of iracing ..

Pretty much every modern racing game gets continuous content updates

 

[RoadHazard]

Phil has put his own name into the title of one of their biggest games? The ego of this guy!

 

[twilo99]

Pretty much every modern racing game gets continuous content updates

I must be confused on what GAAS means, but if it means getting new content over time then yes there are many.

 

[Ozriel]

I mean I'm not going to discredit hard work. It's good that it's better now

But I'm also not going to celebrate spending money on a product only for it to be half baked and in a form of early access. Luckily battlepasses aren't mandatory for fun but the overall progression was borked at launch and was basically in beta.

Forza however (at least that I know of) doesn't have a F2P element

If you spent money purchasing Halo Infinite multiplayer, you did something wrong.

It does not have to be nefarious, it does not have to be a bad product launch like Infinite, but there is less incentive to make a Hail Mary launch and spend money developing content before release once you target player retention over time vs direct sales.

Good thing that doesn’t seem to describe Forza Motorsport, eh?

 

[TransTrender]

Redfall is a GaaS game?
I bet that’s news to the developer and publisher

It indeed was a GaaS before they quickly pivoted away from an in game store late in development, but even this crowing made it sound like it was still their business model in some regards.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/redfall-has-no-in-game-store-or-mtx-will-be-arkane%E2%80%99s-most-supported-title.1654524/

 

[Ozzie666]

After Halo Infinite, I have no faith in any similar such decisions and future support. Just a way to lower expectations, cut content and cut features. Then charge through the roof for DLC packs with no engine improvements for as long as people can stand it. Time to nickel and time the customer. This might work with Office 365, but I hate seeing this approach in games. Soon Electronic arts will do the same thing, release 1 version of a sports game per generation and then charge for simple roster updates, stadium updates with no improvements to the actual game. Some accountants will crunch the numbers and figure out there is more profits that way and less work involved. They will somehow spin this as a good thing. Sick of hearing about 10-year plans.

 

[acm2000]

I must be confused on what GAAS means, but if it means getting new content over time then yes there are many.

i mean it literally means Games As A Service, which is a model racing games have adopted for many years, giving you optional paidn extra content as the months go on along with freebies to evolve the game.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

You can keep your GAAS then and put it in your ASS.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Let's be realistic about this. This is basically a F2P game that they are cheekily putting behind a Gamepass paywall and then dumping microtransactions on top of.

LOL. Next, you'll be saying the same for Mario Kart 8 since it got Microtransactions and we haven't had a sequel in over 9 years

The XBox bashing on here is sheer nuts

 

[DragonNCM]

as long as they actually support it

though it’s hard to imagine Forza turning out like Halo: Infinite did

Don't worry it will be well supported....just like Halo: Infinite

 

[scoobidoo112]

Fuck that. I'll happily stick with Forza Horizon 3 and Forza Motorsport 7.

No offense to anyone, but I sincerely hope this whole thing crashes and burns.

GAAS is a plague upon the gaming landscape and it is destroying franchises left and right.

 

[chromatic9]

Doesn't sound enticing but we'll have to see how it's structured.

Gran Turismo 7 went down this way with predatory gameplay and pushing MTX and I've avoided it. The did lessen the grind with updates after the backlash but it's still excessive compared to previous games and designed around MTX.

 

[NeverYouMind]

I will subscribe to Gamepass for a month to test it out. I really do not need an absurdly large car selection as long as it has a few of my favorites. I consider the Porsche 911 Turbo 3.3 with street body kit a must. However, if it's too online oriented to the point of being detrimental to offline play I cannot justify purchasing the full game no matter how good the racing is.

 

[Shrap]

How depressing that even in a gaming forum people are blind enough to defend this. These content packs end up costing way more than a new instalment with completely new content would and have the added bonus of being in an increasingly outdated game.

Fuck GAAS.

 

[salva]

If this keeps it updated and avoids situations like FM7 being delisted due to licencing, I'm all for it.

 

[Skifi28]

They cut the vehicle count by quite a lot and don't launch with some of people's favourite tracks. One has to wonder what they've been doing for all these years considering it's the longest a Forza game has been in developmement. I'm sure they'll say "we've made everything from scratch", but they've said that before only for the same car models from years ago with the same low detail and wrong proporsions to make their return.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Good.

GAAS, when done right, is light years better than traditionally priced games. I guess some of y'all want to be milked for 70 dollars every few years huh...

Also, is this really news? I thought this was known back when they said it was going to be titled Forza Motorsport.

 

[transformer]

Let's be realistic about this. This is basically a F2P game that they are cheekily putting behind a Gamepass paywall and then dumping microtransactions on top of.

As i said, i was looking forward to this and now i don't care about it at all any more because of this nickel and dime shit. I want to play feature complete games, not some "platform" for publishers to milk more money out of me. This is killing the industry.

If we are realistic, you are full of crap. There are no micro transactions and this is a full priced game…

 

[nightmare-slain]

Fine with me. There's no reason to release a whole new game every so often. Just keep adding new cars/tracks. I hated when you played a car game and you're stuck with old cars. Forza 7 is still a great game to play but it's cars from a long time ago.

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

 

[U n i o n 0015]

So, they should release a new title every 2 years? Or else Forza bad?

I'll just quote myself from earlier in the thread:

I do think racing games as GaaS will work fairly well, provided that the content being delivered is new cars and tracks. If it's microtransactions by a thousand cuts, it's going to suck horribly.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

So is GAAS still bad? Any updates on gaffer's standards?