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Square Enix party: more confirmation about a new game
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Eteric Rice
Member
Tabris said:
I didn't say it would change on the Wii. What the hell are you talking about? :lol
I'm saying that one system shouldn't get one over the other because of the system power. No matter what system the games are on, they would be relatively the same.
Now, if we were talking about the sandbox genre, I would agree that the more powerful systems should get them. That genre would benefit more from their power. The same could probably be said for action adventure games (though I don't see why each system couldn't have an abundance of those). But JRPGs could really go on anything and be pretty much the same deal.
Basically, what I'm saying is don't discriminate between systems in terms of JRPGs.
Eteric Rice
Member
Ether_Snake said:I think they will unveil Haeresis or the new KH series. If it is the later, I guess is it will be on PSP. It would make sense considering that the video from KH2:FM is on a PS2 game, and it would make sense that Square would use the KH2 engine to keep making money by making more KH games on PSP while they work on the PS3 one(s).
A while ago Sony had told third parties that the best way to generate enough revenue to finance the initial cost of next-gen development was to keep on making PS2 and PSP games to generate revenue until the PS3 was more firmly established.
And btw Square is DEFINITELY planning a next-gen remake or sequel of FFVII. I am sure of this because of a few reasons: First there is Dirge of Cerberus and Before Crisis, setting the field for a sequel to FFVII. Then there is the fact that the team behind FF is saying that they don't want to make another Final Fantasy game that cannot be almost on par with Advent Children as far as action scenes/battles go. They said in interviews how AC raised the bar, and it would be disappointing to have fights that would not be on par with the movie (jumping around etc, and fighting on motorcycles). Imagine playing a sequel to FFVII, with Cloud, but with a battle system like Lost Odyssey. It would be wrong
So what are they doing? They are making FFXIII to build up the pipeline needed to make a new next-gen FFVII game happen. FFXIII has very dynamic battles that make use of an Endorphine-like animation system (mix of physics and AI to generate contextual animations that blend seamlessly with one another, as seen in White Knight Story for example, but crazier). They are trying to replicate the kinds of fights we saw in AC in preparation for the new FFVII, they are building the pipeline indirectly through the creation of FFXIII (and at the same time generating revenue from the game once it hits the shelves).
Add to this the fact that you can ride motorcycles and even fight while on motorcycles in FFXIII, and you get a clear picture of what they are aiming for. Expect a next-gen FFVII to be released after FFXIII, with fast-paced battles and the possibility to ride a motorcycle. Everything points in that direction
A lot of your logic uses coincidences, which isn't how things work. It's about as logical as saying "Well, the PS3 will end up failing because each console maker has only been on top two generations in a row".
The PSP and PS2, while similarly powered, have nothing similar at all in architecture. They could use KH models to an extent, but the whole engine would be brand new (or based off of Crisis Core, which resembles KH). And if they were going to go to such an extent to make money, they wouldn't bother then making something for a PS3. While it would be more firmly established, it still wouldn't be anything but the third place system -- and that's a reality that isn't going to change.
Just because "the team behind FF" (which honestly, at this point, what team at S-E isn't behind an FF title in some sort of way) loved the CG action sequences of FFVII:AC doesn't mean the game needs to be based in the FFVII universe to achieve them. If anything, that would mean a new type of title would be needed to implement them, not a basic remake.
They are making a "new pipeline" with FFXIII because, who would have thought, FFXIII is a new game on a new system. Having anything to do with FFVII (be it game engine or graphics engine) is pure speculation.
I also don't see how motorcycle battles in FFXIII prove anything. Hell, there was a motorcycle battle in FFVII itself! Hell, there even was a motorcycle race in Chrono Trigger. Why no speculation of a new Chrono title?? They didn't just create something new in that regard (although being a decade after FFVII, we can expect expect a purely new battle system).
Seriously, this only adds up because you want it to. 2+2 can equal 20 if I really focus on 20 being something that exists somewhere.
Eteric Rice
Member
joesmokey said:
I know, but that doesn't stop it from leaving skid marks on your soul. :lol
Ether_Snake said:I think they will unveil Haeresis or the new KH series. If it is the later, I guess is it will be on PSP. It would make sense considering that the video from KH2:FM is on a PS2 game, and it would make sense that Square would use the KH2 engine to keep making money by making more KH games on PSP while they work on the PS3 one(s).
A while ago Sony had told third parties that the best way to generate enough revenue to finance the initial cost of next-gen development was to keep on making PS2 and PSP games to generate revenue until the PS3 was more firmly established.
And btw Square is DEFINITELY planning a next-gen remake or sequel of FFVII. I am sure of this because of a few reasons: First there is Dirge of Cerberus and Before Crisis, setting the field for a sequel to FFVII. Then there is the fact that the team behind FF is saying that they don't want to make another Final Fantasy game that cannot be almost on par with Advent Children as far as action scenes/battles go. They said in interviews how AC raised the bar, and it would be disappointing to have fights that would not be on par with the movie (jumping around etc, and fighting on motorcycles). Imagine playing a sequel to FFVII, with Cloud, but with a battle system like Lost Odyssey. It would be wrong
So what are they doing? They are making FFXIII to build up the pipeline needed to make a new next-gen FFVII game happen. FFXIII has very dynamic battles that make use of an Endorphine-like animation system (mix of physics and AI to generate contextual animations that blend seamlessly with one another, as seen in White Knight Story for example, but crazier). They are trying to replicate the kinds of fights we saw in AC in preparation for the new FFVII, they are building the pipeline indirectly through the creation of FFXIII (and at the same time generating revenue from the game once it hits the shelves).
Add to this the fact that you can ride motorcycles and even fight while on motorcycles in FFXIII, and you get a clear picture of what they are aiming for. Expect a next-gen FFVII to be released after FFXIII, with fast-paced battles and the possibility to ride a motorcycle. Everything points in that direction
Unless the smiley at the end means that entire post was a joke, then what neoxavean said. In addition to that, factor in the fact that we have only been getting three new FF's per gen since PSX. This number is only likely to go down with the increase in production costs/time so I doubt the resources would be wasted on a sequel/remake of VII.
Ether_Snake
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neoxavean said:
You're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing by twisting what I said.
I didn't say "Oh they are making a new pipeline so FFVII SEQUEL FO SHO!". FFXIII's design is influenced by FFVII. The super fast paced action sequences, the motorcycle battles (it's not some stupid mini-game, the summons can transform into vehicles!), etc. And yes making a game for the PSP is like making a game for the PS2. An engine developed for the PS2 can be used for the PSP. Of course they have adjustments to make but the workflow is practically identical, from lighting to animations to AI, it's the same.
Anyway no need to repeat everything I said already, but I'll come back with a I TOLD YOU SO when it is announced, just for fun, you're asking for it
Ether_Snake
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Dali said:
The biggest cost factor for the development of a game (read DEVELOPMENT not publishing) is making the engine and stabilizing it. Once that is done with FFXIII it will cost significantly less in development cost to make FFVII. A lot of next-gen games are being produced at such high costs at the moment that companies don't even expect to make a profit until a sequel is out.
FFVII is still the most popular FF ever. Releasing a sequel or remake would NOT be a waste. After FFXIII they have to make another FF using the same engine. Why go for FFXIII-2 or FFXIV when everything will be in place to make FFVII?
This is not based on "coincidences" but on speculation based on analysis. Oh wait I just read the forum rules saying we can only talk about "PS3 ROXXXORS LOL NO 360 DOES LOL NO I RLY MEAN WII!" here. Sorry.
cartman414
Member
nelsonroyale said:
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
cartman414 said:
What's so funny? Someone said the same thing about FFVII in this thread and you didn't laugh. Also X-2 has on-the-fly job system changes which is innovative and new, which you guys normally complain about and think SE releasing it on a nintendo console will all of sudden change. I personally don't like the game because of it's fanfare aspect, but I mean come on now.
Eteric Rice
Member
Tabris said:
I think he's laughing because VI is considered by many to be the best Final Fantasy in the series.
Just a hunch, though.
Ploid 3.0
Member
QFTEteric Rice said:
I like the way you think. I agree, they should stick FFXIII as PSX exclusive or cell phone game only. There are a crap load of consoles in homes that can play PSX games, and way too many cell phones. This would be huge for SE. If they don't want to make a PSX or Cell game, they can just go back to making FFXIII on PS2, that would be the next best thing, if they don't think it would sell well on PC.
Ether_Snake said:The biggest cost factor for the development of a game (read DEVELOPMENT not publishing) is making the engine and stabilizing it. Once that is done with FFXIII it will cost significantly less in development cost to make FFVII. A lot of next-gen games are being produced at such high costs at the moment that companies don't even expect to make a profit until a sequel is out.
FFVII is still the most popular FF ever. Releasing a sequel or remake would NOT be a waste. After FFXIII they have to make another FF using the same engine. Why go for FFXIII-2 or FFXIV when everything will be in place to make FFVII?
This is not based on "coincidences" but on speculation based on analysis. Oh wait I just read the forum rules saying we can only talk about "PS3 ROXXXORS LOL NO 360 DOES LOL NO I RLY MEAN WII!" here. Sorry.
I agree about the bit about the engine and everything, but I was playing FFVII the other day and I started thinking about what they'd have to change to make it an acceptable game for gamers today.
The battle system would have to go. It's horribly outdated, would clearly drag the rest of the game down. How would they even work around the world map? Keep giant Cloud? What about the vehicles etc? And if they take the world map how would they connect everything together? FFX style wouldn't really work due to the many optional area (Wutai, Chocobo Sage, Weapons, KOTOR summon) etc. FFXII style wouldn't work with vehicles. They'd probably cut down on dialog. The camera would have to change drastically.
Just thinking about how they'd have to change the camera means they have to rethink everything, from the buildings to dungeons. To tell you the truth, I think it'd be harder to convert FFVII to a modern game while staying true to the source material than to just start on a new FF.
To make a FFVII remake a critical success they'd have to take the characters, some of the locations, the plot points, forget about the PS1 game and start making the game like they were making a new game for the next-gen systems. Less of a remake than a total overhaul of everything.
edit; One thing they have to do if they do redo FFVII is put hints about reviving Aeris throughout the end half the game. It would spawn another generation of Aeris revival rumors. :lol
Eteric Rice said:
Yeah, well so is FFVII, and so is FFIV, and so is FFXI to some hardcore mmorpg fans, etc.
The truth is a lot of people's favorite FF is based off console preference and nothing else. I rank my favorite FF based on individual strengths, best music: FFVI, best gameplay: FFXII, best setting: FFVI, best story: FFVII, best main characters: FFVIII, best "warm and fuzzy feeling": FFIV and best ending: FFX. I love both the SNES and Playstation FF's.
Ether_Snake said:The biggest cost factor for the development of a game (read DEVELOPMENT not publishing) is making the engine and stabilizing it. Once that is done with FFXIII it will cost significantly less in development cost to make FFVII. A lot of next-gen games are being produced at such high costs at the moment that companies don't even expect to make a profit until a sequel is out.
FFVII is still the most popular FF ever. Releasing a sequel or remake would NOT be a waste. After FFXIII they have to make another FF using the same engine. Why go for FFXIII-2 or FFXIV when everything will be in place to make FFVII?
This is not based on "coincidences" but on speculation based on analysis. Oh wait I just read the forum rules saying we can only talk about "PS3 ROXXXORS LOL NO 360 DOES LOL NO I RLY MEAN WII!" here. Sorry.
A [numbered]Final Fantasy game is a HUGE undertaking. The engine may be a big part of development, but it isn't all of it by a long shot. I imagine a big part of why FFX-2 happened is because a lot of the FFX assets were reused. If a FFVII remake happened the only reusable thing from the original would be the story, and even that would probably be tweaked and added to. It would be like making an entirely new FF. As I've already pointed out the number of full fledged FF's per console gen is already limited. If anything, that number has a better chance of decreasing and that's without fulfilling developer (and fan) pipedreams by diverting resources to resurrect FFVII.
Edit:
Beaten by Surreal.
Eteric Rice
Member
Tabris said:
I agree, but VI is touted as the "finest fantasy." I'd heard about VI before any of the others, due to it getting a huge thread everytime it was mentioned.
Eteric Rice said:
I guarantee VII gets bigger threads. VI is a very awesome game, but it's hardly the finest when the gameplay was pretty shallow (every character was basically the same and by the end you were just casting ultima over and over, and btw, FFVII also had shallow gameplay) and while certain moments of the story were very cool (kefka, terra being taken by humans, end of the world, celes suicide attempt, etc), the ending and 1 dimensional character/plot elements were pretty weak in general.
Like the ending should be something to remember, and can you honestly tell me you remember the ending over the end of the world scene or the celes suicide attempt scene? While both FFIV, FFVII and FFVIII had endings that were the thing you remembered the most. Lasting impressions.
FFVI had a Zelda LTTP kind of ending, it was a "thank you for playing, here are scenes of the characters escaping and they fly away happily ever after"
cartman414
Member
Not just that, but whatever one may think of it, but you could do MUCH, MUCH worse than FF6.
Anyways, at the very least Square, if you make any more polls of what to do a major remake for next, make room for FF6 please! Not to mention that it still more than holds up in terms of storytelling and character development, but that it would benefit from some gameplay updates/changes.
FF7 having a strong ending wasn't much of an achievement, since most of the story IMO wasn't that great. And FF4? Don't get me started on the whole "everyone finds true love/becomes royalty" thing.
Anyways, at the very least Square, if you make any more polls of what to do a major remake for next, make room for FF6 please! Not to mention that it still more than holds up in terms of storytelling and character development, but that it would benefit from some gameplay updates/changes.
FF7 having a strong ending wasn't much of an achievement, since most of the story IMO wasn't that great. And FF4? Don't get me started on the whole "everyone finds true love/becomes royalty" thing.
Except I don't think FFVI would benefit from a remake.
Think about it, what's the main thing that's changed with a remake? Graphics. Well FFVI is 2d graphics at their finest. FFVI was at the end of a graphical generation, so it is still something you can enjoy visually. FFVII was at the beginning of a graphical generation, so it's not something you can enjoy visually at all.
Any 2nd graphical generation game doesn't need to be touched (FFIV, FFV, FFVI, FFX, FFXII)
Think about it, what's the main thing that's changed with a remake? Graphics. Well FFVI is 2d graphics at their finest. FFVI was at the end of a graphical generation, so it is still something you can enjoy visually. FFVII was at the beginning of a graphical generation, so it's not something you can enjoy visually at all.
Any 2nd graphical generation game doesn't need to be touched (FFIV, FFV, FFVI, FFX, FFXII)
SuperSonic1305
Member
badcrumble said:
That's what I was thinking.
cartman414
Member
Tabris said:
Said graphical upgrade would really add emotional heft to key moments, and the same could be done for voice acting if done right (casting, direction, etc.). But it's not just presentation: FF6 is a game that while eminently great, could stand to be improved by rebalancing (restricting various spells to purer magic users, etc.) and tweaking other gameplay elements (no random encounters, potential alternative to purely turn-based battle system).
I mean, many people behind the FF7 remake idea are for it for more than graphical reasons. The same holds true for FF6.
Tabris said:
Whoa, whoa. Final Fantasy 6 was full of character soul-searching, whether it came in the form of Cyan coming to the terms with the loss of his family, Locke seeing Celes and Terra as surrogate protectees due to his failure to save his old flame Rachel, Celes not being able to trust other people at first, then becoming suicidal after she sees the world crumble upon her, then finally becoming rejuvenated after she, Setzer and company find Darryl's (sp?) airship, among other characters. If you ask me, it was FF7 that was populated with shallow characters.
Eteric Rice
Member
Tabris said:
I think that's probably more or less because of the advertising Sony pulled off back when VII was coming out. VII more or less made JRPGs more mainstream, while FFVI (III in the US) was more for people who were already fans of the game.
Take a look at the difference in advertising.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeYu8CvKW-g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru9zzFEdGWk
Final Fantasy VII was advertised as a lot more mature than VI was. Not to mention it was the first to use 3D. It was advertised to the mainstream, with adds appearing in comic books, etc, so it got a wider audience than VI could have ever hoped for.
They're both good, of course.
Rancid Mildew
Banned
Ploid 3.0 said:
The slope is getting fallaciously slippery.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
Cedille said:
Tales died with Symphonia and Legandia while getting revived by Abyss only to get killed again by tempest.
Wow, I actually like some of what you're saying Eteric Rice, you're one of the few Nintendo people that has some logic and can see past "oh, it wasn't released on N64 so it obviousely sucked. Cinematic games suck (even though FFVI is a completly cinematic game but you'll never hear them admit that)"
Anyways, both games are very cool but FFVII has horrible graphics while FFVI doesn't, so it should get the remake.
Anyways, both games are very cool but FFVII has horrible graphics while FFVI doesn't, so it should get the remake.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
Tabris said:
This is the first time I agree with you on your entire statement.
Seriously, you got good taste in Final Fantasy.
cartman414 said:
Yeah, I can agree with that but the thing is, it's about priorities. I can go back and play FFVI on my GBA or PSOne or SNES (yeah, I own all 3 copies because I'm dumb like that) and still have no issues at all with the visuals. While I simply can't go back and play FFVII without the visuals being an issue.
Tabris said:
I thought FF VII had a relatively good story and characterization. I thought Vincent's and Barret's storylines were best. I wish Red XIII had more development-lots of potential. Obviously Aeris' story could have been expanded and lengthened. Sephiroth was a decent baddy. Cloud, Tifa, and Cait Sith, and Yuffie didn't do it for me, though.
What I want most out of SE is a Parasite Eve 3.
Ether_Snake
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Surreal said:
That's why I also said sequel, not just remake
The former is more likely anyway.Anyways, to answer the question on what games I actually want, easy:
Vagrant Story 2, Final Fantasy VII Remake and Final Fantasy Tactics 2 (real Ivalice story, no "open a book adventure" crap) for the PS3
Super Mario RPG 2 and an original IP Action RPG w/ waggle (I was thinking Musashi but I don't want Musashi, kind of a lame IP) for the Wii
Vagrant Story 2, Final Fantasy VII Remake and Final Fantasy Tactics 2 (real Ivalice story, no "open a book adventure" crap) for the PS3
Super Mario RPG 2 and an original IP Action RPG w/ waggle (I was thinking Musashi but I don't want Musashi, kind of a lame IP) for the Wii
cartman414
Member
P90 said:
That's a pretty fair assessment. I alluded to in my apparently missed edit how I felt that FF6 had much more going for it. It had much more soul.
Anyways, while FF6 was and still is a great example of 2d and FF7 was rudimentary for 3d, it was still enough for the latter to establish a more cinematic identity in the eyes of many, polygonal warts and all. So there's room for both to benefit from modern remakes.
Doom_Bringer
Banned
great cover
InsertCredit
Member
So no mmo, no remake.
Interesting..
Interesting..
chibcicylist
Banned
This not being an MMO and the comment about Nintendo fans pretty much confirms that the new game is either for the Wii or DS.
It's probably a Wii related announcement using my powers of deduction:
1) Square-Enix DS support is pretty much cemented so it probably won't be the DS but if it's not for the Wii, it's for the DS.
2) Wii is lighting up the Japanese sales charts. They already made a costly miscalculation putting their initial and major support on a lagging Sony console, so it probably won't be the PS3.
3) SE still highly prize their Japanese audience more than Capcom so it probably won't be the 360.
4) PSP who?
It's probably a Wii related announcement using my powers of deduction:
1) Square-Enix DS support is pretty much cemented so it probably won't be the DS but if it's not for the Wii, it's for the DS.
2) Wii is lighting up the Japanese sales charts. They already made a costly miscalculation putting their initial and major support on a lagging Sony console, so it probably won't be the PS3.
3) SE still highly prize their Japanese audience more than Capcom so it probably won't be the 360.
4) PSP who?