-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
Chris needs to L2P
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Star Citizen PAX dogfight gameplay footage
- Thread starter chickdigger802
- Start date
Chris needs to L2P
Fushichou187
Member
The crash not more than 30s into the first flight was hysterical.
Dreams-Visions
Member
It's hard to enjoy because he's so fucking awful at the game. Truly awful. Maybe they should have had someone who's actually good at the game demo while he explains what's going on.
Hari Seldon
Member
Looks like he was using a joystick judging by his flight movements. That is a really good sign.
OldAsUrSock
Banned
The dogfight looked...like a dogfight.
A game this big will push the low end PCs up, which is a good thing.
A game this big will push the low end PCs up, which is a good thing.
wat
Pagusas
Elden Member
I fear a lot of people excited for this game are thinking "finally a new Wing Commander or Tie Fighter!" are going to be severely disappointed as what they consider space sim is very much arcade when compared to this.
I hope they do not fall into the standard simulator developer pitfall of making a great piece of tech but forgetting to add the fun.
I hope they do not fall into the standard simulator developer pitfall of making a great piece of tech but forgetting to add the fun.
Why does 'technical simulator' have to mean 'slow'?
I know you didn't say that, but the point is that MS and Sony aren't going to change there because they don't need to. Its not really 'a problem' for them.
Its just kind of the natural difference between a closed and an open platform. You cant have it all.
My only fear is that they would implement enough sub-systems for managing stealth pursuits, or crisis management. I think that sort of is what will truly compound the engagement of the gameplay.
Dreams-Visions
Member
gameplay didn't really look rough. the player's aim is what looked rough.
as one who spent all of my youth playing X-Wing, Descent:Freespace, and Tie Fighter, I'm very excited. But damn if his shitty play didn't steal the thunder away from what could have been a much more enjoyable demo. You could hear the audience desperate for any moment worthy of eruption...and he couldn't make shit happen for them.
Pagusas
Elden Member
agreed, i think if they can make the game enough about the ships and how you manage them in all situations (distribution of shields, how the engines behave, ability to compromise certain areas to better others) along with a good combat pacing, they can have a winner. The key is just balancing it so you make the player feel like they are growing in their skills and actually making choices that matter and have noticeable effects on the gameplay.
SRTtoZ
Member
Kind of makes you wonder, shouldn't he be one of the better pilots at this point? Lol
Graphics Horse
Member
The way the ships move here, there would be strong lateral gforces, but nobody would fly or design a ship like that in real life.
In something realistic the strong gforces would only come from forward and reverse thrust, rotating your ship would feel the same as spinning on the spot, which would feel like a mild fairground ride at worst, well unless you decide to spin it like a blender.
To put it another way, the gforces here are created by thrusters that decelerate your ship's sideways movement, like air would for a jet. But they're only there so it feels like a jet instead of a space ship.
Elite dangerous has this too but can be disabled, I'm guessing you can disable it here too?
Bornstellar
Member
Game doesn't look very fun unfortunately. 
Hari Seldon
Member
If he was using a joystick and didn't set the sensitivity right then he would be shit.
MutonCommander
Banned
Oh lord, that was just beautiful! I will so build a monster PC for this game!
Game doesn't look very fun unfortunately.
No shit, nothing is remotely close to being finished.
MikeE21286
Member
I kind of thought the same
Sorry, didn't mean to respond to you. There seem to be several people in this thread implying that fast means arcadey.
Bornstellar
Member
Being fun is one of the first things a game should be - that SHOULD come before visual polish.
Ivan
Member
It looks nice visually, buy I'm worried about this as a game. It's so bloated that actual game systems look like an afterthought .
I know this might be overreacting, but for me gameplay mechanics and atmosphere are no1. in games like this. They showed they can make a good spaceship encyclopedia, but I haven't seen anything that could look like a fun game yet.
They are collecting more and more money by making and selling ships, but there has to be a line somewhere when you shift your focus.
And being a simulation rather then arcade game doesn't mean they shouldn't worry about it as a video game at all.
I hope I'm wrong.
.I know this might be overreacting, but for me gameplay mechanics and atmosphere are no1. in games like this. They showed they can make a good spaceship encyclopedia, but I haven't seen anything that could look like a fun game yet.
They are collecting more and more money by making and selling ships, but there has to be a line somewhere when you shift your focus.
And being a simulation rather then arcade game doesn't mean they shouldn't worry about it as a video game at all.
I hope I'm wrong.
HoodWinked
Member
nice cryengine tech demo.
How can that happen when the game mechanics aren't even finished/refined? How can anyone say the game doesn't look fun from a couple of minutes of showing off the first glimpse of the DF?
UnluckyKate
Member
I could see the lock on sound and animation getting old very fast...
But looks amazing, looks like its playing amazingly
But looks amazing, looks like its playing amazingly
The asteroids caused no damage to the ship. Looks like a bug because the other structures around the map did damage the ship. Twice.
Pristine_Condition
Member
Star Citizen is far from "high profile" honestly.
He can think the game looks fun or doesn't look fun. Alpha, beta, or release, information is being presented and he's reacting to it. We all know the game isn't finished and subject to change. Deal with it.
Now, his statement that fun should come before polish is usually not viable in AAA video game development due to all the different cogs at work and how late in the process anything comes together at all. Fun is more like a nebulous ideal with bets placed on its realization at 1.0.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
Sony should definitely get on making this happen. The game would be perfect for Morpheus.
Pagusas
Elden Member
This is why developers should be careful about what and how they show footage (and who is playing it). As you said this is our first glimpse, and other than looking very pretty, it failed to convey what is fun about the mechanics they have put in. Thats just bad marketing when you are developing a game. People like us look at that and say "its just an early preview, hopefully we will see some fun stuff soon" but other less informed potential customers that stumble across this footage and watch it expecting a revived wing commander are going to go "huh, that looks boring" and likely never give the game attention again.
And as for mechanics, usually mechanics and "what can be fun about them" is drawn up before anything is built. I'd very much hope they were always mindful of "how can x mechanic be fun, and if it cant be, why are we making it?"
joecanada
Member
Uh the article links he stated directly
"primarily a PC game " and " will always be pc first " and "anything else that happens will be after the (pc) fact"
There is not one mention of the word never in that post... And why you are so vocal about it is odd...
He said he would never dumb down the game, that's good enough. If it came to ps4 I'd get it, if not I'll likely get it on pc
Iced_Eagle
Member
Yes to all three. However, TrackIR won't be initially supported for the Dogfighting Module. That will come some time later.
It's for the CPU actually as it relates to the physics engine.
tl;dr The benefit is that they can have larger volumes to navigate within and physics are slightly more accurate because of the higher precision.
The first one is the key point however. Space is big. Really big. Every player of course needs a position within space. Now, computers only have 32-bits (bits are a single 1 or 0) to represent this information. That is single precision, aka a "float" in C++. A float is structured in the following way (I won't go into detail on how its used, just know that the combinations of these is what is used to create a fraction such as 123.52131):
1 bit - Sign (positive or negative)
8 bits - Exponent
23 bits - Significand (fraction)
One important thing to note is that numbers are infinite, but our representation of them in computers is not. This means that there are rounding issues. Just an example, but 0.1 is a number which is unable to be correctly expressed in binary. It will have a rounding error. This means that if you do 10 * 0.1, you will NOT get 1. You will get a number that is close to 1, but not exactly. This is why when you're dealing with floating point, you almost never do a check if something is exactly equal to something else. You usually check if it is within an epsilon of the number you're checking. So if you do 0.1 * 10, you would check if it's equal to 1 + or - EPSILON (where epsilon is a really, really small number to overcome the rounding issues).
Now, the problem with this in a space game is that you have both a large volume of play space, as well as needing high accuracy within that play space. As you can see, there is a fixed limit to the number of positions that are possible because there are only so many bits available. You also need there to be enough precision so that as the player moves, it is smooth, and that they aren't jumping around because of very coarse precision. Basically, imagine that you are walking, but instead of it being a normal smooth walk, you always moved in one inch increments, with no possible in between positions.
Now, let's say that you determine that within 1 cubic foot of play space, you want there to be a certain amount of precision within that cubic foot. You can then figure out how big your entire play space will be because a float has a finite amount of bits (let's just say it comes out to 30km cubed). You can't go past this point without serious, game breaking issues.
Now, a double precision is double the space that a single precision number is. Its format is:
1 bit - sign
11 bits - exponent
52 bits - significand
As you can see, it simply has a lot more bits to create numbers out of. This means that in the case where you created that grid, you now have a larger grid you can create because there is higher precision. Your 30km cubed just became 100km cubed while keeping the same precision!
Also, it can represent numbers in a slightly more accurate way than single precision floating point. This means that the physics will overall be slightly more accurate because of less drift due to floating point errors, and because doubles can represent more numbers than floats so there will be less rounding overall. For example, let's say every frame I have a number and I add (0.1 * 10) to it. Remember that this result does not equal 1 due to floating point rounding errors. This means that over time the error will accumulate. With a double precision number, you minimize these sorts of errors, because you have higher precision.
I glossed over a lot of the nuances, but that's the somewhat simple version.
This is a really common issue in open world games. There's a side story about it on this Polygon article as it relates to Kerbal Space Program.
http://www.polygon.com/features/2014/1/27/5338438/kerbal-space-program
Hope that helps a bit! If you don't understand it, don't worry. It's an under the hood thing.
joecanada
Member
People want games on all their systems, what's it to you?
I played every wing commander, every secret mission, every expansion, and I was still hyped when wing commander iv came to playstation. Bought it again, it was better on pc but that's not the point.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
The point is people don't want the game to make any concessions or have the product delayed more than it already is. If this ever came out for a non PC platform, it would be a very long time from now as they are already behind schedule on development. They also are implementing things that inch it further and further away from possibility on (current)consoles. Shit is going to be barely possible on PC it seems lol
Graphics look amazing although I think my computer is going to melt at 1v1s let alone 50v50. The major thing I'm skeptical about is that I don't think Star Citizen actually tested if their goals were feasible specifically large scale dog fighting in the Cry Engine but time will tell. I still play X-Wing Alliance from time to time to get that large scale space combat fix
Awesome thank you. I need HOTAS action in my life again.
SmoothRunningGun
Member
I can't really tell if it looks great from these low quality vids. Hopefully they'll put something on their site.
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