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STARFIELD |OT| 2023: A Space Toddity

Fredrik

Member
Number 6 on that list should be Oblivion. Starfield is basically a modern take on that game and one that does a lot of things worse compared to good old Elder Scrolls IV.

Have you played it? If yes, what are your thoughts?
Sure have! Oblivion is one of my favs tbh, but that was before my PC days, this is just my Steam playtime list. Not sure what would be at the top spot if all versions and all platforms were included.
 

MidGenRefresh

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Arrived in Akila. I wish there would be more points of interest around the city.

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MidGenRefresh

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The zoo there was amusing.

I need to check it out. I'm not a fan of this settlement to be honest. It feels more like an amusement park than a real, believable place. It's almost like Bethesda played Red Dead Redemption 2 during development and decided to include 'cowboys in space' no matter what. You can make the same argument about Neon and Cyberpunk 2077.

I dig the original concept art way more:

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Sure have! Oblivion is one of my favs tbh, but that was before my PC days, this is just my Steam playtime list. Not sure what would be at the top spot if all versions and all platforms were included.

You have a Steam Deck, right? It plays amazingly on it with controller mod. I've put 20+ hours over the last couple of days. It's crazy that this 18 years old game is doing many things better than Starfield. Cities, NPCs (daily routines, for example), dungeons (unique layout for all of them), maps, exploration. I'd recommend to return it at some point. Or maybe wait for the rumored remaster (remake?)?
 
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Fredrik

Member
I'm not a fan of this settlement to be honest. It feels more like an amusement park than a real, believable place. It's almost like Bethesda played Red Dead Redemption 2 during development and decided to include 'cowboys in space' no matter what. You can make the same argument about Neon and Cyberpunk 2077.
Akila? It’s my favorite city, looks so good, the most lived-in city in the game, I love it. It’s like Zack Snyder’s Rebel Moon. Just needs some odd alien races but that goes for the whole game, hoping Shattered Space can unlock something fun.

You have a Steam Deck, right? It plays amazingly on it with controller mod. I've put 20+ hours over the last couple of days. It's crazy that this 18 years old game is doing many things better than Starfield. Cities, NPCs (daily routines, for example), dungeons (unique layout for all of them), maps, exploration. I'd recommend to return it at some point. Or maybe wait for the rumored remaster (remake?)?
Yeah I have 2 actually, one ”old” I use docked and one OLED for bedtime gaming, fantastic devices 👌

I agree that Oblivion is great for it’s age, a proper remaster would be awesome. I assume it’s a simple cashgrab though until proven otherwise, to not end up disappointed.

But Starfield is a different game, some aspects are much better, some worse. I don’t think they aim for the same crowd tbh even though they did use the term ”Skyrim in space”. Feels more like No Man’s Sky than The Elder Scrolls.
However, I like how they did city districts and sewer tunnels and all that in Oblivion, that made it unique. But The Well under New Atlantis is pretty awesome too in Starfield. And Skyrim feels more handcrafted and has Blackreach. All great games!
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
New Atlantis is definitely my favorite city. I love how many districts there are, and the Well puts it over the top. Really captures that Star Trek Next Generation vibe of sci-fi utopia, but adds layers of reality in the poor district.

Cydonia is by far the coolest idea, the coolest looking city on the outside with the huge mining areas and tubes. The interior is not bad, I just wish it was a bit bigger. And I wish you did more outside. If they fleshed it out a bit more, it would be 1st place.

Neon is awesome, and is easily my 3rd favorite city. The concept is amazing, a fishing ocean planet casino area. The vertical layers are awesome. You can climb all the way on the roof, or go 2 levels down with the fishing industry areas.

Akila in concept is great, and I think it has some of the best texture work and looks cool. It just needed a bit more to it, and the circular rings design does make it a little harder for me to naturally navigate. It's the only city I didn't fully memorize in my head. It just needs to be larger, with more to it than some shacks and mud. Even Gagarin and Hopetown look significantly more capable than Akila, and these people are supposed to rival the UC. The outside areas in Hopetown with the large hanger are cool as hell, and Gagarin is one of my favorites. I think it needed a very large industrial district, and maybe stick it like into a giant red rock mountain. They got close, but not all the way there. These are some of my favorite cities in any RPG ever.

Can't wait to see the Va'Ruun city.
 
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MidGenRefresh

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Akila? It’s my favorite city, looks so good, the most lived-in city in the game, I love it. It’s like Zack Snyder’s Rebel Moon. Just needs some odd alien races but that goes for the whole game, hoping Shattered Space can unlock something fun.

It looks cool, I agree but it doesn't make sense for it to look like it does in the universe they've created. I can't shake a feeling that it's just an amusement park where people role-play as space cowboys. It just doesn't feel like a capital city of one of the biggest factions in the game.
 

Fredrik

Member
It looks cool, I agree but it doesn't make sense for it to look like it does in the universe they've created. I can't shake a feeling that it's just an amusement park where people role-play as space cowboys. It just doesn't feel like a capital city of one of the biggest factions in the game.
I don’t agree at all I think the wild west theme is spot on and fits perfectly with the faction as they are living outside the modern society, not quite rebels but farmers and settlers, all taking a stand against the imperialism and strict laws of big fancy UC. There is less order and you’re kind of on your own with no social safety etc, it should look rough and dusty, possibly more so than it does imo.
However, one thing that is a bit strange is that these guys had big mechs during the colony war. Would’ve been more fitting it they were the ones experimenting with creatures as weapons.
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
However, one thing that is a bit strange is that these guys had big mechs during the colony war. Would’ve been more fitting it they were the ones experimenting with creatures as weapons.
For sure. That is a bit of a strange reversal, especially with one of Akila's main features being the Ashta right outside.
 

MidGenRefresh

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I don’t agree at all I think the wild west theme is spot on and fits perfectly with the faction as they are living outside the modern society, not quite rebels but farmers and settlers, all taking a stand against the imperialism and strict laws of big fancy UC. There is less order and you’re kind of on your own with no social safety etc, it should look rough and dusty, possibly more so than it does imo.
However, one thing that is a bit strange is that these guys had big mechs during the colony war. Would’ve been more fitting it they were the ones experimenting with creatures as weapons.

They have space ships that can pull space and travel faster than light and cities like Neon under their control but their capital is covered with mud and feces. Makes sense. :messenger_relieved: Seriously, lore and world building in this game is dogshit, it's best to switch off your brain and enjoy other aspects and there's a lot to enjoy, at least for me.

Game looks absolutely stunning! Rangers story line done, very cool rewards for this one.

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First update of the year, and the biggest one yet, is coming next week! (beta)



I hope there are some UI improvements. With my preferred playstyle the game is almost unplayable without StarUI. It's embarrassing how amateurish their UI is. From lack of basic features like sorting, moving all items from category between containers to button mapping being inconsistent (Q/E to move between sections in one 'module', Z/X in another module, etc.).
 

Fredrik

Member
I hope there are some UI improvements. With my preferred playstyle the game is almost unplayable without StarUI. It's embarrassing how amateurish their UI is. From lack of basic features like sorting, moving all items from category between containers to button mapping being inconsistent (Q/E to move between sections in one 'module', Z/X in another module, etc.).
Yeah I use StarUI too, one of the most essential mods out there 👍
 

MidGenRefresh

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Yeah I use StarUI too, one of the most essential mods out there 👍

UI should be up there on priority list for them! The thing I want the most is survival mode. Out of all Bethesda games, this one is just a perfect fit for such a mode. They dumbed down so many mechanics during development that entire skills are pointless at this stage. Why invest in Astrodynamics when fuel is a non-factor? Why invest in Environmental Conditioning when hazards are a joke? Why bother with owning different space suits with different protection stats? Give me proper survival mode, more dynamic POI, a ground vehicle and I'll put another 300 hours into the game.
 

Fredrik

Member
The thing I want the most is survival mode. Out of all Bethesda games, this one is just a perfect fit for such a mode. They dumbed down so many mechanics during development that entire skills are pointless at this stage. Why invest in Astrodynamics when fuel is a non-factor? Why invest in Environmental Conditioning when hazards are a joke? Why bother with owning different space suits with different protection stats? Give me proper survival mode, more dynamic POI, a ground vehicle and I'll put another 300 hours into the game.
Yeah if I’m not mistaken they said in an interview that the different systems in place regarding environmental damage had been deliberately dumbed down during play testing. I think they did the same with the spaceship battles and the systems there. And I assume the easy fast travel has arrived for similar reasons. Lots of play testing and someone impatient got annoyed.

But I agree, coming from NMS I’m used to handle that stuff, there you can suddenly face an extreme heat storm and you have to quickly reach a cave or dig yourself underground to survive.

Now I too want a survival mode or at least higher difficulty. Challenging games are fun. (Unless they go too far…)
 

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Yeah if I’m not mistaken they said in an interview that the different systems in place regarding environmental damage had been deliberately dumbed down during play testing. I think they did the same with the spaceship battles and the systems there. And I assume the easy fast travel has arrived for similar reasons. Lots of play testing and someone impatient got annoyed.

But I agree, coming from NMS I’m used to handle that stuff, there you can suddenly face an extreme heat storm and you have to quickly reach a cave or dig yourself underground to survive.

Now I too want a survival mode or at least higher difficulty. Challenging games are fun. (Unless they go too far…)

It’s true, they had these mechanics but in typical Bethesda fashion instead of polishing and making them work, they decided to scrap them completely. Doesn’t matter that some perks became useless. Doesn’t matter that world building became nonsensical (especially in relation to Helium-3).

Wasted potential.
 

Fredrik

Member
It’s true, they had these mechanics but in typical Bethesda fashion instead of polishing and making them work, they decided to scrap them completely. Doesn’t matter that some perks became useless. Doesn’t matter that world building became nonsensical (especially in relation to Helium-3).

Wasted potential.
They didn’t scrap them completely but they don’t affect the gameplay as much as they should. But I’m thinking modders will unlock all that for sure. I’m hoping for a deep sleep and eat mechanic. There is currently little reason to cook or eat food but they have all the mechanics in place with skills and research and cooking stations and tons of food to buy and find. Needs to be unlocked!
And there are so many beds, there needs to be a sleepyhead debuff somehow making the stats lower if you ignore sleeping.
 

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They didn’t scrap them completely but they don’t affect the gameplay as much as they should. But I’m thinking modders will unlock all that for sure. I’m hoping for a deep sleep and eat mechanic. There is currently little reason to cook or eat food but they have all the mechanics in place with skills and research and cooking stations and tons of food to buy and find. Needs to be unlocked!
And there are so many beds, there needs to be a sleepyhead debuff somehow making the stats lower if you ignore sleeping.

Environmental hazards were toned-down down so much that you can almost say they were scrapped. To the point that there's no need for any kind of protection / owning different suits. Rendering these suits and especially perks useless. Amateurish design. When you have different systems depending on each other and you decide to change one system, you must ensure all other systems that depended on that one system are adjusted as well. I design systems in business applications, this shit would not fly in my company.

Helium-3 as a consumable resource / fuel that needs to be re-fill was scraped. Instead, it's limiting your range. Which damages world building that was already established. You have characters mentioning that they will be able to afford enough Helium-3 to go somewhere literally in the opening dialogue. Not to mention perks.

And no, fuck modders doing all the work. I want Bethesda to fix their base game first.

Regarding food. Survival mode would make it more useful. But you don't need separate mode to start fixing it. Start with making effects more meaningful. +6 to carry weight is ridiculous. Make it +60 and suddenly hunting for ingredients to cook a soup or whatever will be worth it. Just to give an example. And for the love of Dog, add a separate category for food in the menu.
 
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Fredrik

Member
Environmental hazards were toned-down down so much that you can almost say they were scrapped. To the point that there's no need for any kind of protection / owning different suits. Rendering these suits and especially perks useless. Amateurish design. When you have different systems depending on each other and you decide to change one system, you must ensure all other systems that depended on that one system are adjusted as well. I design systems in business applications, this shit would not fly in my company.

Helium-3 as a consumable resource / fuel that needs to be re-fill was scraped. Instead, it's limiting your range. Which damages world building that was already established. You have characters mentioning that they will be able to afford enough Helium-3 to go somewhere literally in the opening dialogue. Not to mention perks.

And no, fuck modders doing all the work. I want Bethesda to fix their base game first.

Regarding food. Survival mode would make it more useful. But you don't need separate mode to start fixing it. Start with making effects more meaningful. +6 to carry weight is ridiculous. Make it +60 and suddenly hunting for ingredients to cook a soup or whatever will be worth it. Just to give an example. And for the love of Dog, add a separate category for food in the menu.
As I understood it they toned down those environmental mechanics for what they thought was a good reason at the time. I can try finding the talk. I don’t think they will ever crank them up themselves. But since they’re there in the code modders can do it for us, don’t be down on modding that’s where all the specialized cool stuff will happen anyway, mods are merged into the studio dna. Maybe they add it in a later version if it’s popular like they did in Skyrim.

Yeah food is extremely underdeveloped. Some day I’ll make some master chef build and max out the gastronomy skills just to fully understand how weak food is.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
don’t be down on modding that’s where all the specialized cool stuff will happen anyway
One is not down on modders, more like pushing the developer you paid for instead of waiting for free labour that does not get a dime from what you gave Bethesda to fix game shortcoming.
 

Gavon West

Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
UI should be up there on priority list for them! The thing I want the most is survival mode. Out of all Bethesda games, this one is just a perfect fit for such a mode. They dumbed down so many mechanics during development that entire skills are pointless at this stage. Why invest in Astrodynamics when fuel is a non-factor? Why invest in Environmental Conditioning when hazards are a joke? Why bother with owning different space suits with different protection stats? Give me proper survival mode, more dynamic POI, a ground vehicle and I'll put another 300 hours into the game.
I'm thinking if they put a vehicle you can drive in the game it may not come off quite as effective as we hope. Some of the planets and moons have near zero gravity. I don't want to be in my nifty space Range Rover, twirling for 10 minutes in the air because I hit a jump off a hill the wrong way. Really hoping the get really creative in the vehicle department.
 

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As I understood it they toned down those environmental mechanics for what they thought was a good reason at the time. I can try finding the talk. I don’t think they will ever crank them up themselves. But since they’re there in the code modders can do it for us, don’t be down on modding that’s where all the specialized cool stuff will happen anyway, mods are merged into the studio dna. Maybe they add it in a later version if it’s popular like they did in Skyrim.

Yeah food is extremely underdeveloped. Some day I’ll make some master chef build and max out the gastronomy skills just to fully understand how weak food is.

It was in the Lex podcast and Todd said that one day they might add it back in (I’m paraphrasing). The reason why they took it out is because they couldn’t make it fun, which is them simply admitting to failure. And that’s okay, but like I’ve said before, if you remove one system you must ensure that other systems that were dependent on it, will get adjusted. The way it’s right now makes the game feel unfinished, unpolished and not well thought through.

I'm thinking if they put a vehicle you can drive in the game it may not come off quite as effective as we hope. Some of the planets and moons have near zero gravity. I don't want to be in my nifty space Range Rover, twirling for 10 minutes in the air because I hit a jump off a hill the wrong way. Really hoping the get really creative in the vehicle department.

I don’t know what kind of magic they would have to perform to include fast ground vehicles without game shitting the bed. Hell, even now when you max out O2, get amped out and boost pack at full speed, it fails to load the next cell on time and stutters.

Regarding flying off in low G planets, just add some downward thrusters. Mass Effect Andromeda has an amazing vehicle. People behind Need For Speed helped implementing it. Check it out.
 

Fredrik

Member
One is not down on modders, more like pushing the developer you paid for instead of waiting for free labour that does not get a dime from what you gave Bethesda to fix game shortcoming.
I just doubt they’ll do that if playtesting had reports on that it shifted the focus away from more important things.

This is the interview where Todd talk about it, 48 minutes in, that whole segment is interesting though since it makes you understand why they change things. Whole interview is awesome tbh.



He does say they might adress some of it going forward, not sure that was environmental systems or other things, kinda vague since the segment was wide about what to prioritize.

Anyhow this is the year of Starfield updates so who knows what they’ll tweak, I’m excited for the wednesday beta to kick it all off.
 

Fredrik

Member
I'm thinking if they put a vehicle you can drive in the game it may not come off quite as effective as we hope. Some of the planets and moons have near zero gravity. I don't want to be in my nifty space Range Rover, twirling for 10 minutes in the air because I hit a jump off a hill the wrong way. Really hoping the get really creative in the vehicle department.
Won’t be able to add a wheeled vehicle without enable trees to be cut off which would be either weird or too much work.
I’m thinking we need a small hover speeder that can fit between trees.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
I just doubt they’ll do that if playtesting had reports on that it shifted the focus away from more important things.

This is the interview where Todd talk about it, 48 minutes in, that whole segment is interesting though since it makes you understand why they change things. Whole interview is awesome tbh.
Again, fail to see how repeating “why they change things” addresses the “problem is the how and relying on unpaid modders” point raised…
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
I don’t know what kind of magic they would have to perform to include fast ground vehicles without game shitting the bed. Hell, even now when you max out O2, get amped out and boost pack at full speed, it fails to load the next cell on time and stutters.
These were the engine improvement that, alongside visual upgrades, a modern next-generation exclusive game (high spec recommended on PC too) was expected to address IMHO.
 

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I just doubt they’ll do that if playtesting had reports on that it shifted the focus away from more important things.

This is the interview where Todd talk about it, 48 minutes in, that whole segment is interesting though since it makes you understand why they change things. Whole interview is awesome tbh.



He does say they might adress some of it going forward, not sure that was environmental systems or other things, kinda vague since the segment was wide about what to prioritize.

Anyhow this is the year of Starfield updates so who knows what they’ll tweak, I’m excited for the wednesday beta to kick it all off.


Thanks for sharing, I've never seen this one and it's always fascinating to hear what changes they made during development. I mean, you can literally see their struggles if you played the game long enough but it's always nice to hear it from them.

I'm on my 3rd character and now I believe that in the first mission on Kreet (dungeon with Crimson Fleet) the initial goal for the player was to get fuel to jump to New Atlantis. There are Helium-3 tanks on top where the chief pirate is located. That would make more sense. The goal in the final game is to get rid of pirates because they will follow us, which is bullshit and not lore-friendly as game proves time and time again that grav-jumping = losing track of the ship.
 

Fredrik

Member
I'm on my 3rd character and now I believe that in the first mission on Kreet (dungeon with Crimson Fleet) the initial goal for the player was to get fuel to jump to New Atlantis. There are Helium-3 tanks on top where the chief pirate is located. That would make more sense. The goal in the final game is to get rid of pirates because they will follow us, which is bullshit and not lore-friendly as game proves time and time again that grav-jumping = losing track of the ship.
Interesting, never thought about that. I’m at the point where I accept what we got as a starting point but I want them to keep building on it and modders to do their usual thing with the help of hopefully great modding tools. I’ve played and enjoyed No Man’s Sky since the beginning when there was no vehicles or base building or freighter ships etc. I don’t expect Bethesda to iterate like Hello Games but I want Starfield to have at least some sense of a continued longterm support. And Hello Games have dropped space now and I’ll probably be 70 when I get to play a sequel of sorts for Starfield so this is my space adventure game.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Helium-3 as a consumable resource / fuel that needs to be re-fill was scraped. Instead, it's limiting your range. Which damages world building that was already established. You have characters mentioning that they will be able to afford enough Helium-3 to go somewhere literally in the opening dialogue. Not to mention perks.

Regarding food. Survival mode would make it more useful. But you don't need separate mode to start fixing it. Start with making effects more meaningful. +6 to carry weight is ridiculous. Make it +60 and suddenly hunting for ingredients to cook a soup or whatever will be worth it. Just to give an example. And for the love of Dog, add a separate category for food in the menu.

It wouldn't surprise me if we see both of these addressed, even if they are optional and something that can be turned off.

Reworking the economy so that there is a cost to travel, along with making purchased goods more expensive (or materials cheaper) so that there is more value in crafting would change the game quite a bit. It would make the looting and trading that much more important. Plus, it might make it more worthwhile to trade illegal weapons or Aurora, as it is the economy isn't particularly important and there are easier ways to make legal money.
 
It wouldn't surprise me if we see both of these addressed, even if they are optional and something that can be turned off.

Reworking the economy so that there is a cost to travel, along with making purchased goods more expensive (or materials cheaper) so that there is more value in crafting would change the game quite a bit. It would make the looting and trading that much more important. Plus, it might make it more worthwhile to trade illegal weapons or Aurora, as it is the economy isn't particularly important and there are easier ways to make legal money.
Personally I would like to see high level planets with high level monsters that you can only visit after you get gear by maxing out research and building some bases to collect resources.

I know this is not how Bethesda makes games, there is no end game and your adventure just goes on. But that also requires a lot of hand crafting, something they should try to minimise given the scope of the game.
 

Gavon West

Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
I finally found a guy who would sell me shielded cargo holds on Akila City ( I think it's called..) I've been arrested and locked up so many times for having illegal cargo that I wanted to sell. Now I'm at like 90% chance they wont find anything. Now I just need to find more illegal cargo to find out.
 

mansoor1980

Member

WWE Star Randy Orton Reportedly Paid $1,000 to Level Up in Elden Ring​


yeah , that randy orton , must have paid some cash to level up in starfield as well
 
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MidGenRefresh

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Marksmanship + Sharpshooting + Magpulse is straight up broken. Magpulse fires 25 projectiles. Each projectile has a chance of critical hit. Which combined with these perks results in almost every shot being a CRIT.

I don't think they tested it but whatever, I like my new build.

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Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
This just pisses me off...


Yeah, there's some cool stuff in there for sure that I'd like to see added back in.
- Narrative descriptions of the system
- Radiation / meteorite concerns during jumps

If they ever do that survival mode, it will be awesome. One of my biggest wish lists for a while is a data log for systems, items, animals and plants.
 

MidGenRefresh

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Yeah, there's some cool stuff in there for sure that I'd like to see added back in.
- Narrative descriptions of the system
- Radiation / meteorite concerns during jumps

If they ever do that survival mode, it will be awesome. One of my biggest wish lists for a while is a data log for systems, items, animals and plants.

There's even more that was cut like fuel consumption, economy (most likely things were valued differently in different systems), the passage of time when fast-traveling, random encounters when traveling (catastrophic stop surely sounds like one)...
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
There's even more that was cut like fuel consumption, economy (most likely things were valued differently in different systems), the passage of time when fast-traveling, random encounters when traveling (catastrophic stop surely sounds like one)...
Yeah, survival mode will be sick if they ever do it. The ultimate space game.

Personally, I can see why they chickened out. Completing everything took me 450 hours as it is now. If I had to stop on a moon and mine, build an outpost and chain helium 3 pumps to even make it to various systems to complete a quest while also worrying about food, status effects, etc, it could easily be a 2000 hour game. I'm all for that, but it's going to be so much more hardcore than most people are ever going to be able to handle.
 

Fredrik

Member
Okay this is pissing me off 😤

Already done this as a pirate but I’m doing a good-guy playthrough this time. Been doing all factions without unwarranted kills, talking myself out of most disputes and using non-lethal EM damage.

Then I’m doing the final Key raid, still not killing a single person. They all hunt me but I’m just paralyzing them all, Shinya’s bomb disarmed. Finish the quest, gets applause for doing a minimum casualty raid, Delgado is captured, Crimson Fleet is finished. And The Key is said to be used for UC later.

Then I go to the brig. Delgado isn’t there. Shinya? Nope. Nobody from The Key is there. ???

I go back to The Key. And there they are. All of them. Ready to try killing me again as if the quest is unfinished?? Delgado is gone and Shinya is standing on his knees holding his hands up to surrender.

What’s this all about? I thought SysDef said they had captured everyone? And why is Shinya there? Is it impossible to do a no kill run? The quest only says ”reach the operations center”. I did that, the best way possible from the perspective of SysDef I assumed. No?

Am I supposed to go there and execute everyone and pretend there was no other way?

Idk maybe I should go post this at the bug report Discord. But I’m not sure it’s a bug, more an oversight in the quest design, and I probably have to send in a bunch of data.
 
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